Bush left out in the Cold on Kyoto - Yes!

[MaryH]

The Independenet is reporting that Bush's two main allies against the Kyoto Treaty are distancing themselves from him. Saudi Arabia is signing. And Australia hasn't agreed but has signalled it is willing to negotiate.

Yes!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[leesa]

2. The vast majority of scientists are doomsayers?

They are saying the same thing they said in the 70's, yes. What's your point?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

3. His point is

Fox News told him global warming is junk science, so he is here to inform those DUers who may have missed this 'fact'. :eyes:

[arwalden]

4. :-) LOL

[sui generis]

8. regardless of the argument for global warming or new ice ages

the FACT is that we impact the environment and we do it in ways that are quite evident without the the need for studies. The continental smog cloud over China is a perfect example.

Putting our heads in the sand while we "study" the problem for another ten years is idiotic. If there's even a chance that we're impacting global temperatures then we need to be addressing the causes today.

[Name removed]

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[quaoar]

10. Actually, global warming can cause global cooling

Sounds ridiculous but it's true. Melting the polar ice cap puts trillions of gallons of cold water into the oceans and reduces the water temperature. That can lead to a shutting off of the Gulf Stream, which is what keeps England temperate, and a dramatic drop in temperatures across Northern Europe.

You are correct that some people were discussing a cooling of the planet back in the 70s. But you really should read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

[Sporadicus]

16. Also, DISRUPTION of the Oceans' Salinity

due to billions of gallons of fresh water from melting of the polar ice cap would DISRUPT the heat conveyor called the gulf stream, bringing a much colder climate to the British Isles & Iceland. Very telling to see this DISRUPTION in climatic patterns doesn't disturb some DU members, especially those who arrived yesterday.

[ashmanonar]

21. day after tomorrow?

despite the increased time pace of the movie, the Day After Tomorrow has some interesting predictions...if only it wasn't hollywood infecting science...

[Sporadicus]

28. Forget 'The Day After Tomorrow'

This search lists >1000 articles written about this phenomenon.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/related.php?filename=030725075432

[KittyWampus]

18. Science Screwed Itself By Not Saying "Global Volatility" Rather Than

Global Warming/Cooling.

Or, some have said they prefer Global Climate Change.

[alfredo]

27. I think bush is not for Kyoto or for curbing emmissions because

the current models show that it will impact Europe much more than the US. Europe would be thrown into a deep freeze, and some parts of the US would dry up.

[hatrack]

24. Name the scientists. Name their studies & papers. Provide some articles.

Give us some SPECIFICS, NOW.

I'm eagerly awaiting your citations from the Reader's Digest, Newsweek and the My Weekly Reader. :eyes:

[fairfaxvadem]

5. Quoting Michael Crichton?

Go read Sat's Washington Post article on this topic (not Michael Crichton). The major scientific evidence of the last 10 years is very consistent on Global Climate Change. Calling it global warming, as some have commented, is a misnomer. It is climate change. Some places warm up others cool down.

See Juan Cole's website today also for some info.

Also, use your common sense here please. For every action there is a reaction. Pollution is screwing things up, period.

[Name removed]

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[quaoar]

11. Except that rising sea levels will inundate many coastal communities

Such as New Orleans. The entire nation of The Maldive Islands off the coast of India would disappear if sea levels crept up much more.

[Name removed]

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[quaoar]

20. That's the first I have heard of that theory

Do you have any links to support it?

[G_j]

22. right

and the earth is really flat.

There is no way that rising land mass can equal rising sea levels due to melting ice. :crazy:

[hatrack]

26. Fascinating. Please, tell me more about this amazing concept.

Oh, and did you forget about the thermal expansion of water? You know, when temperature increases, so does the volume of solids, liquids or gases?

Please, thrill me with your insight. Feel free to provide citations from the scientific literature.

[mediaman007]

14. Perhaps mankind wasn't intended to breathe oxygen!

Maybe we should all lay in the sun and soak up all the UV rays that we can.

[fairfaxvadem]

15. Are you kidding?

Tell that to the farmers when the growing season is shortened or that farm land has gone to desert and our oceans are no longer able to support sea life due to temp changes in the ocean. How's that for economic and overall quality of life impact, just for an example?

You clearly never took any legitimate biology or geology classes. Everything works in balance. Screw one thing up and the domino effect is evident.

A small increase in ocean temp is a death sentence for a lot of species and it goes downhill from there.

Wake up. And don't give me that song and dance of "oh, the earth will adapt and folks will find new ways to survive and adjust to new realities."

[Name removed]

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[KittyWampus]

19. Proof? We've Removed Too Much Rain Forest... The Planet's Lungs

some say climate change happens naturally anyway.

The difference between climate change that happened 300 years ago and now is:

300 years ago, enough of the planet's ecosystems were intact that the earth could more easily bring itself back into balance.

Now, we've screwed the ecosystems so badly... the earth will have a more eventful time trying to regain its equalibrium.

Think of 2 people getting the flu.

One person eats well, excercised and doesn't smoke.
One person eats crap, doesn't exercise and chain smokes.

Which person is more likely to get gravely ill and end up in the hospital on oxygen?

Which person is more likely to get lung cancer and die?

[pffarrell]

25. will you like it when the local wildlife can't adapt

and there's not enough time for other species to migrate in? will you like it if plants and animal cycles get out of synch - some species will survive, others won't. There was a 100% failure of the seabird breeding season in the Shetlands this year - one reason speculated is that the water is now too warm for the eels which they live on. even though life has evolved and adapted during other climate changes, the change has never ocurred at the rate it is occurring now.

[NuttyFluffers]

7. hitting the 'panic button' isn't going to destroy civilization.

pretty much the change is already set and there isn't much that's going to reverse its course from now on. but that doesn't mean we should not prepare for what's coming by diversifying our means of energy production, our means of chemical use, and our means of food/product production.

besides, there's already a lot of circumstantial evidence linking the industrial revolution (and it's requisite use of fossil fuel energy) and the increase of CO2 and chlorofluorocarbons to the cumulative triggers adding up to global climate change. granted it isn't empirical evidence, but when dealing with most of climatology, geology, and ecology strict empirical standards are difficult to maintain (due to our short lifespan and limited longitudinal experiments/data and the grandeur of the object studied). but that's no reason to sit on our ass and do nothing when we already know a lot of these fuels are the toxic catalysts to more mundane and localized phenomena.

[eShirl]

12. guess what:

"I also lived through the nuke scares, the population explosion scares, the "we are out of oil" scares, the "world will be out of food" scares,"

guess what: none of these problems have gone away.

[tibbiit]

23. here is the deal imo

it doesnt matter if it is global warming or global cooling as the result... the result is that HUMAN"S use of "whatever" is CAUSING "something" bad to happen.
They know what the "whatever" is. We in America are the worst abusers of "it" on the planet, yet we refuse to curb our use.

So who gives a shit what the results are to be, and that is not doomsaying.
tib