1888? "Corporations are fast becoming the people's masters"

[JanMichael]

So now it's 2004, almost 2005, and Grover Cleveland nailed the issue in 1888. Over 100 years ago people, even a President, understood the danger of Corpo Government. Why then do so many DU'ers not "get it" now?

Jack London beat Orwell and Sinclair Lewis by publishing "Iron Heel" in 1908, well before Spain, Italy and Germany turned to overt fascism. Thom Hartmann writes about it here.

Did he coin "Iron Heel"? I wonder if Cleveland was London's muse?

December 3, 1888:

"As we view the achievements of aggregated capital, we discover the existence of trusts, combinations, and monopolies, while the citizen is struggling far in the rear or is trampled to death beneath an iron heel. Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters."

Cleveland seemed to "get it" even if he didn't mean it and was just playing to the audiance. So what about the WalMart lovers today? Willfully Ignorant? Intentionally Obtuse?

How on earth can people not understand the dangers inherant to massive corporate global hegamony?

[solinvictus]

1. Because of perceived benefits...

Marketing slogans as "guaranteed lowest price", "easy credit terms", "Coke and a Smile" and such are the lull that makes the chains seem to fit easier. Also, the old Horatio Alger myth is still rampant, which would work if we operated under a true free market. It allows the pro-corporate working class to identify ideologically with the billionaires that run the country when they actually have nothing in common with them.

[Solon]

2. Shrewed marketing and gullibility...

That is the crux of the problem, back in those days it was the manufacturers that held the purse-strings and the power over the government, nowadays it is the service based businesses that do the same. Unlike back then, today we do not have another industry that will save us on the horizon of unlimited growth, back then it lead to the Great Depression, today it will lead to THE Depression. It wasn't until Upton Sinclair's novel, "The Jungle" that finally lead to the government to actually take seriously the abuses of the corporation, and even then it was too little, too late.

[JanMichael]

3. Lemmings.

Have you read "Jennifer Government"?

It's a neat little fictional book about a post-nation state Corpo world wher one takes the name of their employer. For instance I'd be Michael Walmart if i worked at Walmart.

Not a great book but it's interesting especially from the Corporate control of everything point of view.

[Solon]

6. No but I read the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson...

Its about humans colonizing Mars, but the interesting thing was the fact that Earth countinued to degrade to the point that the people were fighting, not governments, but corporations themselves, with there own armies and such. This I would view as an actual real scenario, many corporations already have well trained armies at their disposal, what is to stop them from using them on US?

[Democrats_win]

4. Our Achilles heel: Young Americans

xmas shows our young relatives have EVERYTHING walmart sells with a little Sharper Image thrown in.

[JanMichael]

5. It certainly doesn't help when a few generations are brought up not...

...having to experience consequences. It's like the young women that have no concept of what it took to gain control over their ovaries.

Out of sight out of mind I guess.

[newyawker99]

7. Hi Democrats_win!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sandnsea]

8. Because FDR was a Communist

And anything that isn't pure capitalism is communist. Vietnam didn't really do anything that we didn't do after the Revolutionary War, redistribute our land. But because they were taking it from a colonial power and not putting capitalism in its place, it was evil. Pure conservative Republicans truly believe it when they say social security and all of FDR's programs are socialist/communist and evil. Reagan framed it all beautifully and brainwashed an entire generation. Now we've got people who don't believe that they are truly trying to dismantle these programs while also not getting how horrible it would be if we truly had free market capitaism and absolutely NOTHING ELSE. The Gilded Age.

[Raster]

20. it's all about who or what holds the nation's wealth. Social Security

is an attempt to level the playing field. That's why the corpublicans hate it so. It's OK for them to feast at the government trough, after all, they deserve it. It is not OK for you or I to.

And the bullshit that binds, is the meme that ANYONE can be wealthy, all you have to do is want it bad enough. Nothing could be further from the truth. The system is stacked against the average American in every way possible.

[welshTerrier2]

9. "corporate global hegemony"

the sad reality is, as you've pointed out, that even many DU'ers don't seem to get this ...

i've participated in many, many threads where I questioned the unrestrained acquisition of capital ... in some of these threads, i've talked about limiting an individual's income or inheritance through 100% taxation above some amount of income; some talked about taxing unearned income (above some income level) at much higher rates than earned income; and some talked about severe restrictions on big business ...

the goal of all of these "draconian' measures was not some kind of Marxist sadism ... i don't hate wealth ... the goal was to recognize that massive wealth ultimately destroys our democracy ... the goal was to understand that most, if not all, government policies cater with those who are wealthy enough to buy access to those who make the rules ... getting paid to "lobby" is nothing but legalized bribery ...

but, oh my, every time i bring this theme up on DU, here come the capitalists ... "you'll destroy innovation" they say ... "that's un-American" they say ... this "free market" thing has made real inroads into supposedly progressive communities like DU ... and everyday, the world is ruled more and more by massive, multi-national greedy corporate tyrants ...

the point is not that "all corporations are evil"; the point is not that "wealth is inherently" undesirable; the point is that many large corporations control not just the U.S. government but global governance as well ... and we cannot let that continue ...

[solinvictus]

11. Strip corporations of lobbying power..

and deny them any influence in the legislative process. A corporation should not have more rights than a free citizen.

[Nobody]

12. The most common argument I've heard is this one

"You'll kill initiative" by limiting the maximum amount that the uber wealthy can get their hands on.

I disagree. The biggest initiative killer out there is a situation of hopelessness.

Toiling at two jobs that add up to 50+ hours a week without benefits, barely making enough to pay the bills, and knowing that unless you're busy busy busy every second, your boss will send you home and you don't get paid for those hours, reducing your income below eking out a living. Which utility bill goes unpaid this month?

Getting laid off, not because the company is doing poorly and they don't need the extra people, not because they are closing their doors for good, but because they need the same work done but by someone they can pay third world wages to instead. Losing your job and then finding out later they'll hire you back as a temp with less pay and no benefits. Losing your job and sending resumes to every job within a 50 mile radius that looks reasonably suitable and yours being one of the stack of 500 resumes for the one job opening.

I was at a demonstration a while back and heard the ubiquitous yell: "Get a job!" My response: "OK, I'll take yours."

[JanMichael]

13. If they gave up the word "Democracy" then it'd be more honest.

Because frankly when there is little to no economic equity there is little chance of political equity.

[ChairOne]

14. If you mean "fairness" instead of "equity"...

... then I'm with you...

They aren't the same. Think of cake-cutting problems...

[JanMichael]

15. They are similar "Equitable" however is tighter.

But really they're about the same. This is probably just semantics.

[Raster]

21. Our US government no longer represents the people nor looks out for

our interests. Case in point, big pharma. Every major policy of our government and its storm trooper, the FDA is designed to protect big pharma, down to justifying and protecting the rape of the American consumer. The politician who received the most money from big pharma during out last election cycle: gee-dubya bush*.

"getting paid to "lobby" is nothing but legalized bribery ..." Absolutely.

[sandnsea]

10. kicking this

I can't believe this isn't getting more attention. This is the basic difference between Democrats and Republicans and we've been fighting it forever. History repeating itself is as true with corporate control as it is with Hitler.

[JanMichael]

16. Is this a Hegelian nightmare?

They just don't get "IT". Yikes.

[nascarblue]

17. Old news, They already control both parties. Doubt it?

Check out this link. I got to say this is the most shocking and revealing documentary I've ever seen.. This hearing gets into great detail about the corporate ownership of the media and government. It even gets into some really shocking sworn testimony about the Saudi's and Israeli's controlling of Norad and The White House, Congress, the House, and Senates communications. Both phone and computer.Carlyle Attorneys, ex State Dept officials, Consulate workers, Norad, etc. Really scary...

http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html

Check out the Indira Singh, Jim Judge, and Michael Ruppert links especially.

[nascarblue]

18. Thomas Jefferson

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs".
Thomas Jefferson

[JanMichael]

19. Well you know people love to boast about TJ except when it comes...

...to the times when he goes all nutty about concentrated economic power. Same with T. Paine and his ideas about religion and revolution, it's only good up to a point for most lemmings.

[DrGonzoLives]

22. Andrew Jackson got it back in the 1820's

when he said something to the effect that corporations have neither a body to kick nor a soul to damn.

[JanMichael]

23. They've got things to kick.

Heads too. However I would NEVER suggest that anyone ever contemplate doing that.

Stick to mascots like that Michellin freak.

[Solon]

24. Nor a body to incarcerate...

I remember hearing that the "The Corporation" Documentary. So use the next best thing the "Death Penalty". Revoke the charters and disassemble the corporations who do wrong. Seems simple to me.