A majority of quakes could be manmade

[Carl Brennan]

So how would you check to see if the Indian Ocean one was?



It is impossible to have an underground nuclear test without creating an earthquake - not necessarily in the immediate vicinity but anywhere in the world. Of every 30 major earthquakes,some 21 or 22 follow a nuclear explosion. There are other reasons for earthquakes, but the vast majority are the result of underground nuclear testing. We need not test nuclear bombs. Self-interest is causing these earthquakes," said one geologist who has been monitoring the corelation.

<http://www.expressindia.com/quake/messages/75.html>

<http://www.whale.to/b/jeffrey1.html>

http://www.shareintl.org/archives/environmental/faq_env... <http://www.shareintl.org/archives/environmental/faq_environment.htm>


(This was taken from another topic that got too long)

[Ian David]

1. Oh, come on. That's just silly.

[Maple]

2. I assume you're joking

:D

[Florida_Geek]

3. is it, would you put it passed Bush to have started

underground testing. I would not

[evolvenow]

4. Is it silly that a test was just conducted in Russia? No More Nuclear!!!!!

Russia's Kamchatka Peninsula to Japan, the subduction of the Pacific plate

Ring of Fire
... From Russia's Kamchatka Peninsula to Japan, the subduction of the Pacific plate
under the Eurasian plate ... The final section of the Ring of Fire exists where ...
geography.about.com/cs/earthquakes/a/ringoffire.htm

[InvisibleBallots]

31. 10 years ago I would have said that

Considering the research being done, it's getting less silly every day.

[idiosyncratic]

5. Uh . . . lots of earthquakes occurred before nukes were developed.

Tempting though it is to believe everything we see on the Internets, one should use a bit of discretion . . .

[aquart]

6. Yah. Earthquakes are NORMAL!!!!!

They are part of the natural process of plate tectonics.

God, what control freaks humans are.

[Maple]

8. We know that

but a large underground explosion could also trigger one.

[firebee]

16. True, but look around.

Seismic activity has gone off the charts over the last two years. Increased activity in California, Mt. St. Helens, and all hell breaking loose around the Indian Ocean... A plate more effected by the bombs being dropped in the middle east. I think it would be naive to think the consistent dropping of bunker busters isn't going to effect the stability of the faults.

For every action, their is an equal reaction.

[Ima]

22. I found this interesting

"Officially, there is such an area of research devoted to man-made earthquakes. Geologists and seismologists agree that humans can induce earthquakes in five major ways: fluid injection into the Earth, fluid extraction from the Earth, mining or quarrying, nuclear testing and through the construction of dams and reservoirs."

This was from OPs second link.

While I don't necessarily think anything was deliberate, it wouldn't be to much of a stretch for the earth to react to these things.

[Xipe Totec]

36. If anything it might trigger a quake prematurely

And at lower intensity. A quake is a sudden shift in the plates. The longer it is delayed the more energy is eventually released. The amount of energy in a nuclear detonation is insignificant compared to the energy stored in the deformation of tectonic plates.

[Squatch]

58. By that logic...the years 1939-1945 should have resulted

in a bumper crop for earthquakes. Especially 1945...since we dropped two NUCLEAR WEAPONS on one of the most active fault zones in the world...<ahem>

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

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[firebee]

85. Alaska Earthquake followed pretty shortly after WWII

[JHB]

88. I hope you don't mean the big '64 one...

...since ~20 years is only "pretty shortly" on a geological scale.

[firebee]

95. Okay... compare quakes in first half of the 20th century to second half

Go research the number of significant quakes in the first half of the twentieth century and then look at the number of significant quakes in the 2nd half of the twentieth century. I'm talking about strictly researching the magnitudes..

The magnitudes jumped up in size and frequency from the first half of the century to the second half of the century. Sorry... that's just a fact and it's plain as day to see.

What did we start doing differently in the 2nd half of the twentieth century. OH.. that's right... WE STARTED DROPPING BIG F#<KIN BOMBS!!!! That's what we did differently. Remember... Korea, Vietnam, Japan, Laos and let's not forget all the nuclear bombs everybody's tested on the Pacific plate.

While I think it's incredibly stupid to say one nuclear bomb would trigger an earthquake, I don't think it's stupid to say the consistent use of bombs is f#<kin up the planet.

[rman]

79. Seismic activity has NOT gone off the charts, on the contrary;

TWENTIETH CENTURY EARTHQUAKES - CONFRONTING AN URBAN LEGEND
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-295.htm

Number of Earthquakes per Year, Magnitude 7.0 or Greater (1900 - 2003)
http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/7up.html

[Catholic Sensation]

7. Okay, so heavy winds in France were done by the USAF

and now the massive tidal wave that hit Sri Lanka and another eight countries was done by Americans doing nuclear testing in the Indian Ocean. You know, and this is going to be shocking to some of you genuinely insane people, America isn't responsible for everything in the world.

[Maple]

9. Who blamed it

solely on the Americans?

Are you the only country with nukes??

[Catholic Sensation]

26. Florida geek did

you've been served.

[Carl Brennan]

10. Who said that? Or is that your persecution complex overwhelming

your senses?

[Catholic Sensation]

28. maybe you have florida geek on ignore

that would explain why you missed "would you put it passed the bush administration..."

and maybe i should have put my reply there but i was reading through the whole thread before I replied.

[karlrschneider]

32. Not to speak for anyone else, but I don't pay much attention to someome

who writes "passed" for "past"
:eyes;

[Carl Brennan]

33. Yea, right. So now

you try to weasel out of what you said. :eyes:

The purpose of this thread is for enlightened inquiry.

Did you know that the CIA had convinced the US public that the Mafia didn't exist before Valachi spilled the beans? Did you know that?

[karlrschneider]

39. Oh, for chrissakes...I've known about the Mafia for 56 years, it didn't

take "The Valachi papers" to get me up to speed. Good night.

[Carl Brennan]

42. The Mafia was "officially" considered bogus until Valachi made it official

[bitchkitty]

83. He didn't say America - he said

the bush administration. Chimpie does not represent America for anyone around here, or haven't you noticed?

[TwilightZone]

11. A nuclear test doesn't generate a 9.0 on the richter scale.

Is there some reason that people have to see a conspiracy in EVERYTHING?!?

[Carl Brennan]

13. I think its more like a nuke could trigger a larger quake.

Why are fault lines avoided when locating a nuke plant?

[eyepaddle]

17. Fault lines are avoided because

an earthquake could trigger a nuclear disaster--not the other way around. While a nuclear explosion might shake the plates loose it is extremely unlikely that a powerplant "incident" would unfold like that.

Most of the issue with a nuclear disaster is a toxic cloud of death--as opposed to a full on mushroom cloud.

I haven't checked all of you links yet but here are some thoughts--if there was a nuclear test that triggered this quake there would be a separate earlier seismic event which would be seen by the many independent seismic monitors in the world.

Well, that and the fact that that is one of the most seismically active regions in the world--no nuke required.

[Carl Brennan]

27. Well, on the face of it yea, but the articles I cite say

that nuke explosions may cause earthquakes and if an explosion occurred at a nuke plant then .......

[Zynx]

47. Nuke plants cannot go mushroom cloud

The material and circumstances simply do not exist.

The amount of physics garbage being displayed in this thread is mind boggling.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightZone]

20. What does that have to do with anything?

You do understand that a nuclear plant is for generating power, right? Nuclear power plants have nothing to do with nuclear tests.

As the other poster noted, plants aren't built on faults for the same reason most other structures aren't - earthquakes cause damage.

Damage to a nuclear power plant = bad.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tacos al Carbon]

65. Wow ... that's really mature

You post something patently stupid about the relation between nuclear POWER PLANTS and fault lines, a couple of posters, including TwilightZone call you on it and you go all Travis Bickle on him.

I read your links and let me just say: What a bizarre collection of horseshit. Your main link is a post on a DISCUSSION BOARD citing an UNNAMED geologist. In five minutes I can have a post on that same board which says that Carl Brennan's massive gas emissions cause global warming and earthquakes and it will be just about as valid as your initial link. Then you have a link a Jason Jeffrey tinfoil hat extravaganza that talks about the Evil Americans and their evil plot to control the weather. Jason Jeffrey, for those who don't know, is a conspiracy-nut whack job who thinks that Jim Jones was the innocent victim of savage "American Imperialists." Then you link to Share International ... a cult website.

Did YOU read your links?

On edit: you know, the first Superman movie is a personal favorite ... but it's just a movie (Superman IV, on the other hand, was a crime against nature).

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tacos al Carbon]

89. Must have missed a doozy of a reply

I hate it when that happens.

[JHB]

92. So your containment vessel won't crack in half...

...from sitting on both sides of a fault? So quakes don't break coolant pipes?

Just a couple of reasons that spring to mind...

[Fud]

113. This must be a joke of some kind

Does anyone believe that the chimp can generate earthquakes from his gameboy? This is too much even for those that know conspiracys exist.

[Florida_Geek]

12. see my thread on Diego Garcia AFB

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2869783

[Squatch]

14. Chemtrails caused this earthquake

:evilgrin:

[slutticus]

15. " Of every 30 major earthquakes,some 21 or 22 follow a nuclear explosion."

Right. Where does this info come from? Does he have any refs to back this up?

This post should be here.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. "The American Replacement of Natural Disaster"

This is from my blog a couple of months ago, posted here. Links are active at the site.

The American Replacement of Natural Disaster

There's an interesting little book by philosopher William Irwin Thompson entitled The American Replacement of Nature, written in the aftermath of the first Gulf War ("I would have liked to be patriotic and respect my President, but it was difficult when he behaved more like the Director of the CIA than President of the Republic").

"America's esoteric destiny," Thomspon writes, "seems to be one of breaking down all the cultures of the world in preparation for a new global culture that will become humanity's second nature." He concedes that when America's asymmetrical opposition calls it "the Great Satan," it has a point: "for this second nature is so artificial, so opposite to anything that a traditional person would wish to call cultural or natural, that it appears on the horizon of the human as something inhuman, monstrous, and evil."

It's been ten years since I read the book, but I thought of it the other day when I remembered these remarks from April 28, 1997, by then-Secretary of Defense William Cohen. He had just delivered the keynote address of the "Conference on Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and US Strategy" at the University of Georgia, and had opened up the floor to a Q & A (the context for the B'nai Brith reference is a spate of hoax anthrax letters the organization had received):

Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

Did you get that? Seven years ago, the US Secretary of Defense warned that terrorists were pursuing the bioengineering of gene-specific superbugs (a step behind PNAC, which regards targetting genotypes as potentially "a politically useful tool"), the alteration of the climate, the triggering of earthquakes and even volcanoes. If we assume Cohen was serious, then we can safely presume the US is leading the world in the development and deployment of such technologies.

What reminded me of Cohen's words was the reawkening of Mount St Helen's, and the simple fact of the calender. It's October - where's our surprise?

I may be foolishly naive here, but I'm prepared to give Karl Rove the benefit of the doubt on this one. I don't believe he's sitting in a bunker beneath the West Wing pressing the "erupt" button. But it would be even more foolish if we ignored Cohen's words, and their implications. Because we are entering a period of human history - the final period, if we don't watch ourselves - in which our speaking of the natural world means little more than a nostalgic conceit. That which used to be expressly "Acts of God" are being folded into the mission of the US military.

Raising this subject invites the debunker's usual fistful of tinfoil. But in The Times for November 23, 2000, Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that "US military scientists are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth's atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods."

Another example, this time from a 1996 Air Force research paper entitled Weather As a Force Multiplier, which called for an examination of "the concepts, capabilities, and technologies the United States will need to remain the dominant air and space force in the future":

US aerospace forces can "own the weather" by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies to war-fighting applications. Such a capability offers the war fighter tools to shape the battlespace in ways never before possible. It provides opportunities to impact operations across the full spectrum of conflict and is pertinent to all possible futures. The purpose of this paper is to outline a strategy for the use of a future weather-modification system to achieve military objectives rather than to provide a detailed technical road map.

A high-risk, high-reward endeavor, weather-modification offers a dilemma not unlike the splitting of the atom. While some segments of society will always be reluctant to examine controversial issues such as weather-modification, the tremendous military capabilities that could result from this field are ignored at our own peril. From enhancing friendly operations or disrupting those of the enemy via small-scale tailoring of natural weather patterns to complete dominance of global communications and counterspace control, weather-modification offers the war fighter a wide-range of possible options to defeat or coerce an adversary.

And weather is not only a force multiplier; it is a fear multiplier as well.

While HAARP and similar arrays diddle with the ionosphere, and our skies are increasingly streaked with man-made cirrus clouds, it's becoming difficult to find with certainty the intersection of natural and artificial phenomena. And so, a TV meteorologist's claim that he has begun to use the pattern recognition of "scalar weapons signatures" within cloud formations to better his forecasting record is not as crazy as it would have sounded even five years ago.

William Irwin Thompson:

In truth, America is extremely uncomfortable with nature; hence its culturally sophisticated preference for the fake and nonnatural, from Cheez Whiz sprayed ouf of an aerosol can onto a Styrofoam potatoed chip, to Cool Whip smoothing out the absence of taste in those attractively red, genetically engineered monster strawberries. Any peasant with a dumb cow can make whipped cream, but it takes a chemical factory to make Cool Whip. It is the technological process and not the natural product that is important, for what that point is aimed at, is the escape from nature.

Sure, Americans do like to hunt and fish, but not to commune with nature; rather to knock the old bitch around to show her who’s boss.

A hypothetical question: if the United States military is determined to "own the weather," what would the test of an environmental weapons system look like?

[seemslikeadream]

19. electromagnetic radiation

The U.S. Government has a new, ground-based "Star Wars" weapon which is being tested in the remote bush country of Alaska. This new system is intended to heat and lift a portion of the ionosphere above a selected location on the planet in order to make a huge invisible "mirror" for bouncing electromagnetic radiation back to the surface of Earth. Is it wise to poke a hole, as it will do, in Earth's electrical umbrella? Is it wise to prod a dynamic natural system without knowing how it will react? The U.S. Military claims HAARP is designed to communicate with submerged submarines and to penetrate the land with ELF (extremely low frequency) waves to search for hidden tunnels or other sites of military interest. What else can HAARP technology do? It can, according to author Nick Begich:

(1) shield a territory from interconnentinental ballistic missles,

(2) fry satellites,

(3) disrupt communications over a large area of the globe,

(4) change the chemical structure of the upper atmosphere and possibly alter the weather,

(5) affect human mental functioning, and

(6) generally impact the health of humans and other biological systems in negative ways.

This system may go fully on-line at any time, perhaps in March (1997), according to some reports. Do we, the taxpayers, deserve to know the facts about this powerful experimental weapons system that may impact us and our entire planet in negative ways? (Editor's note: this interview was published in our March/April, 1997 issue. On three occasions in 1997 Dr. Begich went to Europe to meet with environmental experts. He also gave numerous interviews and lectured to several hundred legislators and Parliamentarians representing more than 40 countries. His presentations were apparently well-received. His book, Angels Don't Play This HAARP, is now translated into German and Japanese and has been named one of the most important books of the year fir 1996. Dr. Begich recently said in a news release: "HAARP represents a small part of the hidden technologies being developed by military planners, and increasing reports in the media continue to confirm what we began to uncover several years ago." United States Secretary of Defense William Cohen apparently stated in a press briefing, while commenting on new technological threats possibly held by terrorist organizations:

"Others are engaging in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, (and) volcanoes remotely, using the use of electromagnetic waves." Dr Begich's news release adds:

"While the Secretary of Defense suggests this capability might be possessed by terrorist organizations, the U.S. military continues to deny that they also control such technology." Dr. Nick Begich and his organization Earthpulse Press may be contacted through email at [e-mail])

more
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project184.html

:hi:

[Carl Brennan]

25. Thanks seemlikeadream. Look at how that ties in with

Brezizinski's quote in reply #23

[DS1]

24. Bruce Willis and Ben Afflek decline to comment

:eyes:

[karlrschneider]

29. Oh, for christ's sake, another "no plane hit the Pentagon" type screed...

:eyes:

[Carl Brennan]

35. Explain the comparison?

Please

[karlrschneider]

37. Mega-tinfoil idiocy.

The amount of energy released by the SMALLEST quake is millions of times more ergs than the biggest nuke. That's all I'm going to say on this ridiculous subject.

[Carl Brennan]

41. So you are claiming that nukes could never

help cause an earthquake?

[Carl Brennan]

72. Well??? Are you or aren't you?

:eyes:

[The Magistrate]

116. Yes, Mr. Brennan

Nuclear weaponry is presently utterly incapable of triggering or affecting in any way an earthquake of the magnitudes being discussed here. A nuclear weapon's detonation certainly causes some small local vibration in the earth, that very sensitive instruments can detect at some distance; as this is a "seismic event" and earthquakes are "seismic events" it is only natural that persons moved by ignorance or malice may find the two things easily conflateable, but it is rather like saying shop-lifting a pack of cigarettes is equivalent to spending a week or so slicing up an old woman in a basement; both are, after all, crimes.

A cause must be proportionate to an effect. The recent Sumatran earthquake moved thousands of cubic miles of rock many meters in a matter of seconds. Do you have any idea the weight of matter involved, and the amount of force required to so affect it?

[bleedingheart]

30. Hey what have you been drinking? Cuz I want to mix that with my eggnog

it must be pretty good...

[karlrschneider]

34. It's some kind of kool-aid and it doesn't go very well with eggnog.

:eyes:

[youngred]

38. Nukes can cause earthquakes, but often don't

there have been no underground nuke tests for years (and no nuke tests at all since Pakistan and India decided to play i've got bigger testicles back in 2002)

Furthermore, unless situated right inside a fault a nuke is highly unlikely to yield a 9.0 richter quake.

Not everything is a conspiracy

[shance]

40. Nuclear Testing in the ocean? Of course it could create earthquakes.

It shouldnt take a rocket scientist to comprehend the impact of a large nuclear explosion in the ocean, not to mention the tremendous damage it could inflict on the entire oceanic ecosystem at large.

Something like this could potentially become a method of terrorism in the future, if not now. It's certainly an issue which should be addressed by a global summit.

[Squatch]

43. Um...yeah...they'll get right on that.

[Zynx]

49. I hope you are being tongue in cheek

The idea of a nuke causing this earthquake is about one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum and that says a lot when you look at the 9/11 bunch.

[shance]

56. Who said anything about this earthquake?

Nuclear testing can cause earthquakes, period.

I hope it is you that is being tongue and cheek because it's your ignorance (and rudeness) that's showing, not mine.

And what's your point about the "9/11 bunch"?

I guess we can assume you have all the answers there as well?

[ButterflyBlood]

44. so explain the motive

what exactly is gained by this earthquake by whoever supposedly made it? I love how tinfoilers have to see a conspiracy in everything, even when there's nothing pointing to there being one.

[shance]

45. Why do many threads tirelessly resort to *conspiracy*?

It's disappointing to see some who appear threatened and intent on shaming those who are exploring ideas and asking questions.

Progress in any realm has never been made by naysayers or those that discourage discussion. Its made by those who are willing to ask questions.

I have no idea about this earthquake and that is not even the point, but the concept of nuclear testing and earthquakes is nothing new and certainly could benefit from discussion.

[ButterflyBlood]

46. the earthquake could've been caused by aliens with some superweapon

but until there's any evidence to suspect so, there's no reason to suspect it.

[shance]

51. You're saying nuclear testing in the ocean is a walk in the park then.

I guess you're right.

[The Magistrate]

117. A Comparison Of The Forces Involved, Mr. Shance

Is roughly analogous to a comparison between being struck on the head by an egg that has fallen twenty feet, and being struck on the head by a sizeable marble tombstone that has fallen a similar distance, with a nuclear detonation of several hundred kilotons standing for the egg....

[Zynx]

48. The science in those links is horrible

I'm not even going to bother with a point by point rebuttle of this crap. It's like rebutting people who belive in FTL aliens.

[slutticus]

54. Yeah. I was shaking my head reading that crap.

I don't have time to dissect it point by point, there's just too much to rip into.

Maybe later.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jesus H. Christ]

50. I'm getting contact embarassment.

I'm amazed at such a ridiculous level of scientific illiteracy. Some of you people should be ashamed.

[uncle ray]

52. the US gov't ADMITS they cause earthquakes!

i was one of the crazy tinfoil hatters who spoke of the possibility of man causing earthquakes near the middle east as a result of our bombing, on DU about a year ago, only to be met with ridicule, that no way we have the power to make earthquakes happen...fast forward to this fall, October or so, there was a fairly small earthquake near the Colorado/Utah border, i think a 4.8 or so. well about a month after that particular earthquake, i read a nice little article in the denver post that quoted our own gov't people admitting that we likely caused that earthquake, their reason being an operation that pumps brine into the earth as a result of a water purification effort. they pump in 100+ gallons per minute deep into the earth. they have been well aware they are causing earthquakes, and moniter them.

so, if a few hundred gallons of water per minute can cause an earthquake, what can one or more large nuclear blasts do?

[ButterflyBlood]

53. Do you have any clue how much larger a 9+ earthquake is than a 4.8?

For that matter you have to yet to provide a motive. As much as I hate the current folks in office I don't see why they would go through all the trouble to do such a thing as the earthquake which has no gain for them.

[arcos]

57. No, but (s)he can check out this graph...

[Silverhair]

61. That CT poster probably won't understand that the graph is a log graph.

S/he will probably thing it is a regular one.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carl Brennan]

78. Well said uncle ray.

Welcome to DU

:toast:

hee, hee!!

[uncle ray]

86. thanks

i've been posting a year, but thanks anyway!

it's really too bad more of "us" here won't question what goes on in this world, and WHY. i posted a valid example of how man HAS caused earthquakes, that should be food for thought, instead my intelligence is deemed inferior by those who wish to speak for me...it's ok, many hundreds of theorys have been proven with time, as will this one. sun rotating around the earth, flat earth, radio communication is impossible, wheel driven vehicles can't possibly go over 200mph...just a few examples of the brave few proving the majority wrong.

[uncle ray]

90. let's see if i can say this again without offending you

being it was deleted the first time. i don't have to prove any motive, i NEVER accused the administration of purposly setting off earthquakes with nuclear bombs or whatever.

and again i DO know the difference in magnatudes. thanks for the concern.

heres some links to make you happy. now tell me, man doesn't/can't/will never cause earthquakes? and to support the OP, "most quakes" doesn't mean "most big quakes", most quakes ARE small and not felt by anybody, and maybe, just maybe WE cause many of them!

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=54144&format=



Federal brine-pumping operation may have caused quake on Colorado-Utah border
By Associated Press
Monday, November 15, 2004

A federal facility that pumps salty water 14,000 feet into the Earth's crust probably is associated with a magnitude 3.9 earthquake that struck the Utah-Colorado border this month, an official said.
The U.S. Bureau of Reclamation facility removes salt from the Dolores River, then pumps 230 gallons of brine per minute into deep wells in Utah's Paradox Valley Area.
The facility has caused thousands of earthquakes in the area since 1991, but most have been too small for people to feel. The 3.9 quake, which struck Nov. 6, was felt in Grand Junction, some 60 miles away. No damage was reported.
``We have a seismic network set up for measuring and recording any events associated with the injection process, and it appears this earthquake was one probably associated with that process,'' said Andy Nichols, manager of the federal facility. ``Every once in a while there's a large event felt at the surface, and this was one of those events.''


http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/states/colorado/colorado_history.html

In 1961, a 12,000-foot well was drilled at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, northeast of Denver, for disposing of waste fluids from Arsenal operations. Injection was commenced March 1962, and an unusual series of earthquakes erupted in the area shortly after.

It was 32 minutes after 4 a.m. on April 24 when the first shock of the Denver series was recorded at the Cecil H. Green Geophysical Observatory at Bergen Park, Colorado. Rated magnitude 1.5, it was not strong enough to be felt by area residents. By the end of December 1962, 190 earthquakes had occurred. Several were felt, but none caused damage until the window breaker that surprised Dupont and Irondale on the night of December 4. The shock shuffled furniture around in homes, and left electrical wall outlets hanging by their wires at Irondale.

Over 1,300 earthquakes were recorded at Bergen Park between January 1963 and August 9, 1967. Three shocks in 1965 -- February 16, September 29, and November 20 -- caused intensity VI damage in Commerce City and environs.




nobody is saying we caused the 9.0 earthquake, just using it as a start point to discuss the likelihood of man causing some earthquakes, get it? now are you going to tell me the example above didn't happen?

[The Magistrate]

119. Please Try And Comrehend The Numbers, Mr. Ray

A quake of level four, a generous rounding of the number mentioned in your account, is one hundred thousandth the force of a level nine quake. This is somewhat more than the difference between being hit by a package of hot-dogs flung at twenty miles an hour and being hit by an eighteen-wheeler loaded full of packages of hot-dogs moving at twenty miles an hour.

Merely because things share a name does not convey much in the way of identity: the Wright Flyer and an F-16 are both airplanes....

[seriousstan]

55. LOLOLOLOLOL 100% of earthquakes occur within 24 hours of me having a beer.

:toast: :beer: :tinfoilhat:

[HeeBGBz]

59. Do you really think nuke testing has no detrimental effect on a fault?

Earth is a fragile entity. Who's to say a powerful blast could not exacerbate an already volatile fault system. If a fault line is unstable, it may only need a tiny push to set off a domino effect.

[Silverhair]

60. Do you have any idea how massive a tectonic plate is????

If something as tiny as a nuke can make a T plate let go and slip, it would have let go on its own in a few seconds anyway.

Yes, I said, "...as tiny as a nuke..." because on the scale of T plates, nukes are tiny to the point of not there.

Further, to use a nuke to trigger a quake you would have to be able to know where to put it and when. That means you would have to be able to predict a quake, and we can't do that yet.

[HeeBGBz]

63. I wasn't talking about a deliberate triggering

I was just thinking along the lines of the theory of chaos.

[Silverhair]

64. It is impossible to prove a negative.

But if you look at the size of a T-plate, then you can see that the effect of a nuke would not be measurable.

[Carl Brennan]

76. You do not know that!

You just spout it! :eyes:

[The Magistrate]

121. He Knows It, Mr. Brennan

So does anyone else who bothers to keep informed in a mild way concerning the world around them, and takes the small effort necessary to comprehend the concept of quantity.

Do you have any idea the amount of energy, translated into terms of explosives, released in a level nine earthquake? Do you have any idea what a cubic mile of rock weighs?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ediacara]

62. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA

Now THAT'S funny!

[satori]

67. Union of Geological Sciences-Underground nuke testing causes earthquakes

The International Union of Geological Sciences says that underground Nuclear Explosions can cause earthquakes in the world.

The International Union of Geological Sciences

HUMAN OR NATURAL CAUSE: Earthquakes are predominantly natural events. However, shallow-focus seismic tremors can be induced by human actions that change near- surface rock stresses or fluid pressures. These actions include: extracting (or pumping back into the ground for storage or for secondary hydrocarbon recovery) water, gas, petroleum, waste fluids; mining or quarrying activities; and loading the surface with large water bodies (reservoirs). Underground explosions, particularly for nuclear testing, can also generate seismic events.

http://www.lgt.lt/geoin/doc.php?did=cl_seismicity

__________________________________________________________

More on nuclear underground tests and earthquakes from The Coastal Post - April, 1996

The Dec. 10, 1988 Armenian quake killed up to 50,000 people. The Soviets tested three days before.

First, the most active earthquake zone in the world is where three continental plates collide. Second, it lies half-way between the Chinese and French test sites.

Other activity would be along the plates and accompanying faults, radiating out from the triangle, such as the New Zealand-Australian system, Indo-China, China, Japan and up through the Aleutians.

Also, pressure from the blast pushes out in all directions.Could an internal wave activate the great spine of the Andies, Rockies and Sierras? The atolls are almost as close to the American continents as they are to the Asian. And the entire region makes up the Ring of Fire.

http://www.coastalpost.com/96/4/5.htm

[The Magistrate]

122. You Did Read That, Did You Not, Sir?

The operative words are "shallow focus seismic tremors" and "Seismic events".

The things being refered to are of very minor surface scale. Anything that shakes the material of the crust, even locally, in any degree perceptible by instruments, is an "earthquake", and will be refered to by professionals as a seismic event, but there the similarity between such trifles and the sort of thing recently occured off Sumatra ends.

[jdots]

80. you people that think conspiracy is a dirty word.......

are buying into fascism or fundamentalism.Sure there are alot of check out counter rags full of crap, but what do you want ? the truth god to tell you they're some very negative things going on in the world and most of them are done by humans.You sound like the media putting down imagination that solves questions that they cover up.

[Ian David]

81. Conspiracies are real. Silly conspiracies are silly.

Is our country engaged in some of the most horriffic and sophisticated crimes and conspiracies of all times?

Yes.

Are they-- or anyone-- "causing the majority" of earthquakes?

Absolutely not.

Folks, some of us really need to take off the tinfoil hats and criticaly examine which accusations we believe.

It does not help our credibility when we claim (correctly) that the election and in the same breath claim (stupidly) that we're causing the majority of earthquakes through nuclear testing.

It does not help our credibility when we claim (correctly) that the pResident authorized the use of torture and in the same breath claim (stupidly) that one of the planes on 9-11 was remotely pioloted.

[Endangered Specie]

82. was this inspired by "The Core" movie?

;)

remember, this quake was a 9.0, which means it was 100x powerful as the 7.0 that hit LA, the scale is logarithmic

[Walt Starr]

84. WOW, I can spell out this theory quite well!

L-U-D-I-C-R-O-U-S

[Royal Observer]

87. They are probably caused by

Repubs.x(

[Taxloss]

91. Everyone knows that Christmas causes earthquakes.

Last year Bam, this year Indonesia.

The effect on the world's orbit caused by everyone eating turkey and pulling crackers causes the release of marsh gas which causes sunspots. Reflected off the baloneysphere, these concentrate radon in certain areas, causing earthquakes and heartburn.

[Squatch]

93. LOL...that word is going in my lexicon

"Baloneysphere"

[TwilightZone]

98. "baloneysphere"

Too funny. :)

[wormhole]

101. nice!

[realvirginian]

94. Oh God... n/t

[Renew Deal]

96. Where's my hat?

:tinfoilhat::nuke::tinfoilhat:

[RandomKoolzip]

97. Moderates and lurking republicans are reading this thread right now....

And having all their nightmarish suspicions about liberals confirmed for them. Either that or laughing their asses off. Thank you for making us look like clowns.

Guys, come on. This is pseudo-science, quasi-tinfoilia, and uber-BULLSHIT.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

102. I COULD entertain the possiblity that 2+2=5, sure.

But 2+2 will always =4. So why bother?

Nuclear testing does not cause earthquakes. The US (or any other superpower) is NOT responsible for causing this weekend's tsunami.

I am actaully a big enthusiast for conspiracy theories. The more sensible ones are very interesting and worth further research. However, like one of the above posters pointed out, when we on the left claim that Bush stole the election (outlandish sounding, but true) and in the next breath claim that Bush caused a massive tsunami (obvious bullshit), it undermines the credibility of the first claim.

This is why I can't stand discussion of chemtrails, fake NASA moon landings, holocaust denial, etc., because they unfairly taint other, more resonable CT's with their nonsense, so that any time one might want to bring up, oh, say, RFK's assassination, one is met with "So, I bet you also believe that the MOON LANDINGS WERE FAKE too, huh?" and derisive laughter.

And if you think I have the power to block any conversation on a subject, healthy or otherwise, then you obviously haven't read any of my earlier posts.

[shance]

103. You haven't even granted any sources to back you up.

like the poster did and others as well.

Its rather inconsiderate of you and others to come into a thread scoffing and ridiculing with such rudeness and not even offer an ounce of intelligent response in the meantime.

[RandomKoolzip]

105. Do I really have to come up with facts of my own.....

or should I just let the whole of scientific knowledge, the laws of physics, and the collected body of work done by seismologists do my work for me?

Or should I listen to disreputable cult-related sites to get my daily dose of science?

[uncle ray]

112. facts are what makes the DU what it is

i posted a couple of links stating that yes, indeed we cause earthquakes. one from the u.s. geological society if i recall correctly. are you saying that we create NO earthquakes, or disputing how many we cause? because we DO cause them, maybe not the biggest newsmaking ones, but we do cause small ones.

[Tacos al Carbon]

111. Do you defend creationism with equal vigor?

You would never ridicule those who want to "discuss" creationist theory, right? You're all for DUers exploring the possibility that the universe is about 5,000 years old and was created by God in six days. I hope that you are equally supportive of that discussion. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical, now would you?

[satori]

100. US officials: 204 top secret underground nuclear tests declassified

In December 1993, the Secretary of Energy broke the silence at her first Openness Press Conference and announced all top secret U.S. underground nuclear tests between 1961 and 1992.

U.S. Underground Nuclear Testing Program. In December 1993 and June 1994 the Department declassified information related to 204 previously top secret unannounced underground nuclear tests and simultaneous detonations.

The report is titled Radiological Effluents Released from United States Continental Tests, 1961 through 1992 (DOE/NV-317 ). In December 1993 and June 1994, the Department declassified information related to 204 previously top secret unannounced underground nuclear tests and simultaneous detonations.

In December 1993, the Secretary of Energy declassified information related to 204 previously top secret unannounced underground nuclear tests and simultaneous detonations. This declassification action provided the opportunity to release information on onsite radiological releases for those formerly unannounced tests.


http://www.osti.gov/html/osti/opennet/document/jan97/prcfacts.html

[apple_ridge]

104. Fools. It's obviously due to the recent

sightings.

http://216.132.172.10/indiadaily/editorial/12-26a-04.asp

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/18/ufo-indonesia041218.html

It was just a test run of their mega-quake Human removal weapon. They plan on ridding the planet of us very soon.

[Boosterman]

110. oh please everyone knows the aliens

will wipe us out with a super flu. Much better for the ecology of the planet ya know.

[satori]

106. US Air Force-Underground nuke testing is difficult to detect

USAF-Underground testing in a hollowed out cavern is difficult to detect.

September 1999
Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army
The Counterproliferation Papers
Future Warfare Series No. 2
USAF Counterproliferation Center
Air War College
Air University
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama

Underground testing in a hollowed out cavern is difficult to detect. A West Germany Army Magazine, Wehrtechnik, in June 1976, claimed that Western reports documented a 1963 underground test in the Negev. Other reports show a test at Al-Naqab, Negev in October 1966.83

A bright flash in the south Indian Ocean, observed by an American satellite on 22 September 1979, is widely believed to be a South Africa-Israel joint nuclear test. It was, according to some, the third test of a neutron bomb. The first two were hidden in clouds to fool the satellite and the third was an accident—the weather cleared.84

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

[gizmo1979]

107. Give me a break!

Everyone is going to think we're nuts with talk like that.

[satori]

108. PBS-US Congress repealed ban on low-yield nuclear weapon research

PBS
NOW with Bill Moyers.
Transcript. April 2, 2004 |


LINTON BROOKS: There was provision in the law put in 1993 that banned any research that could, and the word "could," is important, lead to the development of a low-yield weapon. Since almost anything you do in nuclear research could lead to that development, we saw this as having a chilling effect on all forms of research.

BILL MOYERS: So last December, the administration prevailed and Congress repealed the research ban. Shortly afterwards, Linton Brooks wrote this memo to his team of nuclear researchers, telling them, quote, "We should not fail to take advantage of this opportunity." Now's Bryan Myers spoke with Brooks.

BRYAN MYERS: That was widely interpreted as "let's go forward with research of low yield weapons."

LINTON BROOKS: Well, yeah, apparently it was. And I've re-read the memo after that was pointed out to me. And I guess I didn't draft it very well.

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript314_full.html

[Boosterman]

109. Cmon people didnt you see Superman the movie?

Actually I think in a chaos theory type way this might be possible. Theres no way people have the science to intentionally do this IMO. And if its all a PNAC type plan well what a wimpy strategy. 50K dead? Thats it? A relative drop in the bucket. I am not making light of the horrible human tragedy. But that simply doesnt make sense.

[oblivious]

114. So why are these people so terrified of discussion?

If it's not page 1 on Fox news no one here's allowed to talk about a subject? Imagine if all engineers and scientists were so afraid of inquiry and investigation. Would anything new ever be discovered? Imagine if seismologists had such a limited perspective - not to investigate or theorize anything beyond textbooks. Would there ever be any progress in our knowledge of seismology?

Look at their fear, waiting to be told what to think. Fear of what others may think of them (see last item). No investigation of the evidence. Just name calling. Why are they so afraid?

1. Oh, come on. That's just silly.
6. Yah. Earthquakes are NORMAL!!!!! God, what control freaks humans are.
11.Is there some reason that people have to see a conspiracy in EVERYTHING?!?
113. This must be a joke of some kind
29. Oh, for christ's sake, another "no plane hit the Pentagon" type screed...
37. Mega-tinfoil idiocy.
30. Hey what have you been drinking? Cuz I want to mix that with my eggnog
34. It's some kind of kool-aid and it doesn't go very well with eggnog.
38. Not everything is a conspiracy
49.The idea of a nuke causing this earthquake is about one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum and that says a lot when you look at the 9/11 bunch.
44.I love how tinfoilers have to see a conspiracy in everything, even when there's nothing pointing to there being one.
48. I'm not even going to bother with a point by point rebuttle of this crap. It's like rebutting people who belive in FTL aliens.
54. Yeah. I was shaking my head reading that crap.
50. I'm getting contact embarassment. I'm amazed at such a ridiculous level of scientific illiteracy. Some of you people should be ashamed.
55. LOLOLOLOLOL 100% of earthquakes occur within 24 hours of me having a beer.
81. Conspiracies are real. Silly conspiracies are silly.
84. WOW, I can spell out this theory quite well!L-U-D-I-C-R-O-U-S
96. Where's my hat?
97.Guys, come on. This is pseudo-science, quasi-tinfoilia, and uber-BULLSHIT.
102. I COULD entertain the possiblity that 2+2=5, sure
104. Fools.
107.Everyone is going to think we're nuts with talk like that.

[The Magistrate]

115. This Is Nonesense, Mr. Brennan

There are on average a little less than a thousand earthquakes a year of level five or higher, capable of doing some real damage, and about a hundred and twenty of these are powerful enough to do great damage. As the greatest portion of the earth remains uninhabited, of course the great preponderance of these cause no human harm, and so are remarked only by geologists, and even of those that do humans harm, the greatest proportion go unreported very far from where they occur. The idea that earthquakes are rare events is nonesense; a mere artifact of innattention....

[T Town Jake]

118. It was....

...THE DEATH STAR!!!! Amping up for a test-run! Governor Tarkin meant to hit Alderaan but the ray glanced off the side of the moon and hit the Indian Ocean instead! The Borg then chased him out of the system before resuming their course to Sector 001, and then...oh, never mind.

:tinfoilhat: :eyes:

[pacifictiger]

120. many differing theories on what triggers

earthquakes. Mother nature has been shaking things up way longer than we have been tampering with her. For instance, they've tied historical records of earthquakes in China/Japan with anomalies in tree rings of ancient trees in Oregon, as well as geological disturbances, suggesting massive tidal waves correlating to the same asian dates.

Thats not to say that 20th century man may not in a small way contribute to some recent tremors, but I think to switch the entire hypothesis to man's intervention is a stretch. Particularly for large earthquakes. Last year there were around 83 earthquakes globally greater than a magnitude 5.0, and thousands of smaller tremors. On the island of Hawaii alone they record many earthquakes every day - most are too small to be felt by anything but a seismograph.

I've always wondered what effect pulling all that oil and water out of the ground is having though. Humans waste so much.

[superconnected]

123. the atomic bombs dropped in japan were 60 years ago

one would think bombs are even more effecient now. Also there are double impact missles now- blast then deliver the mother blast because the first one is to weakens the structure.

I worked at a place that made missle guidence systems for 7 years, and boy did they advance.

If it was man made I would look at india and pakistan as the ones testing them since the main earth quake happened in the indian ocean. I would also question wether underwater testing can cause a tsunami. It probably can.

I'm not saying this quake and tsunami are man made. I'm just saying I wouldn't completly close my mind to the idea. Sure mother nature makes quakes, but, man screws with mother nature and changes things all the time. Check out the ozone.

[superconnected]

124. the atomic bombs were dropped in Japan 60 years ago

one would think bombs are even more effecient now. Also there are double impact missles now- blast then deliver the mother blast because the first one is supposed to weaken the structure.

I worked at a place that made missle guidence systems for 7 years, and boy did they advance.

If it was man made I would look at india and pakistan as the ones testing them since the main earth quake happened in the indian ocean. I would also question wether underwater testing can cause a tsunami. It probably can.

I'm not saying this quake and tsunami are man made. I'm just saying I wouldn't completly close my mind to the idea. Sure mother nature makes quakes, but, man screws with mother nature and changes things all the time. Check out the ozone.