Saw a bush voting neighbor in the grocery store line today

[Bouncy Ball]

(I posted this in the lounge, but it was suggested that there would be some interest in this here.)

I got behind her in line before I realized who was in front of me, looked up and there she was. She's been laid off for the second time in a year and her husband just got laid off about a month ago from the job he had for 17 years.

She sees me and chats nervously and I am polite.

She seems OVERLY nervous, though, and hesitates a lot when the guy tells her the total. Finally she gets out a Lone Star card, which is what the state of Texas uses for food stamps. She looks at me as she hands it over and sees that I see. I tried to look away at the last minute, but I was confused as to why she was acting so weird. I really try instinctively to spare people any embarrassment, but this caught me off-guard.

I only had a few things and she sees me as we are leaving the store and laughs and explains that they "had no choice" but to use food stamps and she "couldn't believe they qualified." She went on to tell me it was get food stamps or not be able to pay the mortgage and lose their home. I stop her in the middle of her distressed, nervous rambling and tell her this:

"I don't care that you're on food stamps. I have absolutely ZERO judgement for that. That's what they're THERE for. If they help you out when you are in a tight spot, good, I'm glad of it. I wish more of my tax dollars went to help people out when they are experiencing hard times. Most people using food stamps are like your family, they just need some help until they get back on their feet. But since the tax cuts, there isn't as much to help families like you anymore." (She winced when I said that, as she used to go on and on about how great bush's tax cuts were.)

I couldn't help it, I finished with this: "I'm a Democrat, Linda. I don't judge you for needing help. It's your republican friends you want to worry about seeing you in line."

Yeah it was snarky. But she half-laughed with tears in her eyes and said "I know." As we were pushing our carts to our cars, I asked her if she had November 2 to do over again, would she vote for bush again. She looked surprised and said "Yeah, of course." I just stood there for a second and she must have known I was thinking "WHY?" because she added "He's doing a great job keeping us safe!"

I just shook my head and started loading up my car. She doesn't see any connection at all, does she? No wonder I never got through to her before the election.

[lancdem]

1. If it weren't for the terrorism issue

Kerry would've wiped the floor with Bush.

[AzDar]

4. Kerry DID wipe the floor with bush. n/t

[TexasChick]

48. Yes, he did. And, this was supposed to be Chimp's strong point! n/t

[prodigal_green]

6. that's the thing about cults

the members can't even conceive of a different leader. The question itself was absurd in her mind.

At least she might be a bit more sympathetic when she hears about another family having a hard time, or the fact that there is something like 90% unemployment in Iraq.

on edit: You demonstrated to her what a true Democrat is, we don't have to add the word compassionate to our name, it is inherent.

[Bouncy Ball]

13. I love your last line.

I have felt that way for a long time: anyone who goes around beating their chest and banging the pots and pans about how COMPASSIONATE and MORAL and HONEST and CHRISTIAN they are makes me suspicious. I mean, if you really ARE all those things, your actions will tell me so. If you keep screaming about it, it makes me wonder who you are trying to convince, me or you?

[jdj]

62. Man, that was an incredibly compassionate thing to say to her

I don't believe it was snarky at all.

I love it when people are both compassionate and effective. Way to go.

[Goldeneye]

2. It was nicely handled. Maybe she'll learn something from this.

[dave123williams]

3. Just because the GOP is totally corrupt...

...doesn't mean they're not a step better than the people who voted for them.

[Bouncy Ball]

5. I don't get it.

Could you re-word that?

[karlrschneider]

14. Guess it wasn't just me, I couldn't decipher it either...

:eyes:

[Bozita]

7. The only dots these folks connect lead to Bill Clinton

They're oblivious to everything else.

[Mika]

37. To be more precise.. the dots connect to Clinton's dick.

:spank:

[Bouncy Ball]

45. The Clenis

single handedly responsible for the fall of Troy, the assassination of Lincoln, and the movie "Gigli."

Fear the Clenis!

[Tesla]

8. I Get so mad!!!!!!

I wanna bang my head up against the wall!!!
Are theses folks mindless???

[RFSea]

9. They ALWAYS think about it later...

Always-

[tk2kewl]

I hope she is buying some brain food with those food stamps

or maybe some a hat to keep the sun from frying her brain any further.

i don't know what to do about people like this. i have friends who think that way too. they just don't bother to look below the surface on any issues.

[ashmanonar]

22. a tin foil hat?

:evilgrin:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

10. She's an idiot

The perfect Republican.

Does food stamp eligibility have a time limit? I know nothing about these matters.

But, if their eligibility runs out, and they're left with no way to buy food, do you think that would qualify as Fuckface keeping them "safe"?

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Hmmm, I don't know.

I don't think it does, but I'm not familiar either. I don't know what they'll do. She keeps bothering me to get her a job where I work, but I'm busy trying to get a job for a Kerry voter I know who was laid off right before Christmas.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. You sure do think straight

Good for you, and I hope your Kerry voter friend lands a job.

Let Fuckface get "his people" jobs. After all, they voted for him...........

:yourock:

[Bouncy Ball]

38. That is my new operating philosophy.

I am helping people who TRIED to change things for the better. I am not helping those who hurt us all with their vote for harmful, hateful, divisive people and policies.

[mitchum]

63. That's why I will be working with an African-American oriented draft...

resistance movement next year. I figure that will lessen my chances of helping some little snotnosed bush supporter get out of supporting "his" president's perpetual warfare.

[traco]

69. Food stamps do not have a time limit

financial aid (AFDC, TANF, ETC...) Has a time limit of 5 years.

[Ilsa]

11. My God. She knows her Repuke "friends"

would stand in judgement of her without ever lifting a hand to help her, and she'd pull the same shitty lever all over again. Ask her to disconnect her cable so she can't listen to Faux News anymore. Maybe she'll start thinking more clearly about the "terrorism" issue.

[Bouncy Ball]

16. Yep.

That kinda surprised me, too. She said "I know" when I said that about other repukes. She's pretty judgemental herself.

[dweller]

30. or just disconnect the cable

to have the $$ to pay for food?


sorry, is that judgemental?

dp

[Bouncy Ball]

39. They haven't ever had cable.

Nope, not ever. BUT she does drive a huge brand new Suburban that just eats gas and costs an arm and a leg for the payment every month.

[dweller]

42. so, sell the gashoggingsoldierslayer

and pay for food...


sorry, is that still judgemental?

[Bouncy Ball]

44. Nah, I agree.

The payment is $600 a month. She told me when they first got it, about four months ago. Funny thing is, when she told me, she said it all proudly like she was proud of the fact that she had a $600 a month car payment. My mind boggled. I drive a six year old paid for car that is in fantastic shape and have no need or reason to have such a car payment. She was driving a Jeep Cherokee that was paid for but just HAD to have a Suburban because that's the thing to do around here.

Sheesh.

[dweller]

47. and she's still driving it?

for that would make me suspect. I'm not sure, but with that kind of extra income ($600 car payment) would exclude someone from attaining food stamps, in my state at least.

dp

[Bouncy Ball]

51. I don't know what the requirements are here

and yeah, she still drives it. Could she have fudged that on the application for food stamps?

[Bouncy Ball]

55. I found something

income requirements for food stamps in Texas:

http://www.dhs.state.tx.us/programs/TexasWorks/foodstamp.html#grosslimits

[dweller]

56. check your local req's

here if your car is worth more than $3k, it's a given (and it may be the 2nd car at a lesser value) or it goes first.

:shrug:


dp

[dweller]

43. dupe

do-wha.

dp

[saracat]

12. Bitch that I am, I have zero sympathy for her.

She said "I know" She understands, but it is all about image with the Repugs. If she and Hubby begin to make money again she will be first in line to make sure that other peoples's benefits are cut. They will be vocal too, in order to cover the fact that they had to "lower" themselves to use them. They are idiots who "choose" to be stupid. End of rant. God help them. They effect all of us.

[Bouncy Ball]

15. You know what saracat?

You are exactly right. I can TOTALLY see them going back to badmouthing people and advocating that social programs be cut more once THEY are done using them. It sounds exactly like something they'd do.

[quiet.american]

20. Like what?

When my 'publican acquaintances give me the "Bush is doing great
things to keep us safe" line, I ask, "Like what?" or "How?"

There's never an answer. Not a single one.

If Bush is so strong on national security, WHY AREN'T THOSE TOWERS
STILL STANDING?

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Good question.

I blame bush for 9/11 and I let everyone know it, too.

You can bet if Clinton was in office when that happened, we'd STILL be hearing the screaming, ranting and raving from the right.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. Amen, and you're not a bitch

You're thinking clearly and rationally, and you expressed your sentiments - with which I happen to agree completely - just beautifully.

What's really ugly is that, if they ever get out from under this economic hardship brought on them by their Fearless Leader, they'll be the first to scorn, loudly and often, those "parasites on the public dole." You just know they will.

[davidwparker]

58. So true, so true.

Image. Image. Image.

[Florida_Geek]

18. and when bin Laden hits us again and he will

and I am predicting in Texas, her fantasy world will be over.

But I do not feel sorry for her.

[Bouncy Ball]

19. I worry about those unprotected ports

and the chemical plants in Houston. They might as well just paint a big bullseye on that area.

:scared:

[Florida_Geek]

74. And bin Laden want to show Bush he is the Master

one way to do that is hit Bush where it will hurt his "pride" in Texas.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. Why should OBL be bothered whacking us again?

He's laughing his sorry ass off at us, because that Fuckface squatting illegally in the White House is doing a far better job of ruining the United States than a few well-aimed planes could ever accomplish.

OBL doesn't ever have to do anything to bring us down. We got our own OBL in the White House.

[CBHagman]

21. I guess she doesn't consider the 1,300-plus dead...

...among U.S. service members in Iraq "us." It's that bit about "keeping us safe" that makes me crazy. Bush stayed on his month-log vacation after the Presidential Daily Brief of August 6, 2001, when he was informed of Osama bin Laden's plans to attack inside the United States.

And at the end of 2001, with thousands dead and the country at war, he says, "All in all, it's been a fabulous year for Laura and me."

When even the administration's own advisors are saying that the U.S. military actions are having the opposite effect of what was intended, when even hawks like Thomas Friedman believe another deadly attack is on the way, I can't stomach this chirping of "We're all safe now!"

Then again, I'll bet no one she knew lost a single member of their family or company on September 11th, and perhaps not even in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. But it's very telling that New York City went 75 percent for Kerry.

[Bouncy Ball]

24. The first job she got laid off from

was a major US airline she had worked for for 20 years. It was a direct result of 9/11 (remember all the airline layoffs?).

She's had more reason than most to vote out bush. She's a delusionoid, as are most all bush voters. Totally out of touch with reality.

[yorkiemommie1]

23. can't connect dots

i placed an article about possible medicare cuts in front of my retired husband and he didn't read it. they will NOT read anything that contradicts the 'party line'. the faithful will sacrifice the food on their tables for *.

[Spinzonner]

26. Irrational beliefs are the hardest to give up

because we're invested in them on faith rather than evidence and logic.

We can admit to being fooled or ill-informed (by others) and even making the wrong conclusions easier than give up ideas that are fundamental to our belief systems and on which everything else might be built. It's scary.

Would you be willing and able to easily give up the ideas that make you a progressive, a liberal or whatever you call yourself ?

Give her time to absorb what's happening, experience with what life is like under economic pressure, and a little propaganda about who created and supports the safety net (which the Repugs are trying to kill) that she has started to depend upon.

Friendly and Gentle Persuasion.

[Zech Marquis]

27. so she's out of work

using food stamps, and her husband;s been laid off--yet she still insists * is keeping us SAFE :wtf:



safe frm WHAT, to paraphase Snake Pilskin
I don't think the real Jesus would even dream of being as devius s * and stil be able to look himself in the mirror.

Did a bunch of aliens suddenly take over back in November 2000? where the fuck did all of these pod "people" come from? and NO, you actually have to THINK when you use an iPod:evilgrin:

[InvisibleBallots]

28. She got the message, don't worry - you just went too far

It was all perfect up until the "would you do it all over again" - in context, you are basically asking her to vote Democratic now that she's on food stamps. She's not going to admit to you in the parking lot that you were right all along, and now she's going to vote Dem.

But I'm sure she got the message. She'll pay more attention the next time she hears crap about "tax cuts", and she'll be a lot more cynical next time around.

[JanMichael]

31. I call bullshit on that; she did NOT go too far

and the woman answered her honestly.

How many times do you need to read that quote from that Nazi about "security" before you understand the beginning of a facist society, and brainwashed people?

Stephanie

[tk2kewl]

34. i dont think she went too far in the face of reality

but i think the post intended that she went too far for this woman's ego

[Bouncy Ball]

40. I don't think I went too far.

And my point wasn't that she should vote Dem because she's on food stamps--life for her and her family has gotten progressively worse and worse since bush took office in 2000 and I wanted to see if she had made any connection there.

She hadn't.

Or won't.

[mitchum]

61. No, going "too far" would have been loudly calling her a "Welfare Queen"

Actually, that wouldn't have been going too far either :)

[area51]

35. vote

Vote for GW Hoover again? Man, that Kool-Aid must taste good.

"Prosperity is just around the corner." -- Herbert Hoover
"The economy has turned a corner." -- GW Bush

Herbert Hoover = GW Bush

[Doremus]

36. I saw a local news anchor interview a gray-haired grandma

after the election. The anchor asked her who she had voted for and the grandma said *. The anchor asked why and I'll never forget this woman's answer:

Because my grandson is shipping out to Iraq next week and I feel * will keep him safer than Kerry could.



How do you even begin to address utter ignorance such as this?

[marcologico]

41. I'd worry about working with a person like this

Could be she has an eye on your job. Just my 2¢

[Bouncy Ball]

46. I don't work with her, she's a neighbor.

Though she has been trying to get me to get her a job where she works, but I am calling in all my favors with HR to get a job for my Kerry voting friend who was laid off in early December.

[mitchtv]

49. Thanks Bouncy, I needed that

So did your neighbor. No doubt she will think twice before voting repug again. Don't let up on her. What did Jebus say about the joy in heaven over a lost sheep? .

[maveric]

50. I hope that she loses her house. Callous and cold as it sounds.

There should be consequences for stupidity and willful ignorance.
She'll be nice and safe from Al Queda and Saddam while she's living in an inlaw's garage on food stamps.

Stoopit people!

[Bouncy Ball]

52. They are dangerously close to it.

Their foundation is totally cracked, not covered by insurance and would be $9000 to repair. They don't have that kind of money. Without fixing it they don't have much of a chance of selling their house, but the bank could foreclose.

There are also other repairs they need to make but cannot afford. She has an elderly father who lives five hours away and his parents are elderly and quite poor and live three hours away.

I don't know where they'd go, to be honest. But it's really not my problem. They voted for bush. Twice.

[maveric]

57. Sh broke it she bought it.

Sorry for sounding like an asshole but I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.
She stuck her head in the sand and went for the easy bullshit that Faux News and Rove hung out in front of her, without paying attention and researching the big picture.
Its her own fault, but being a good republican she can "Pick herself up by her bootstraps". So she shouldnt worry about anything. She has that going fo her.

Geesh!

[mitchum]

60. I agree! Maybe they can live on communion wafers and grape juice

[eleny]

53. My theory has always been

That no matter what, the wingnuts have dug their heels in - right or wrong. They share that with * who never admits he's wrong. Not even to themsleves. F 'em.

[jdots]

54. it is so sad to see people buy the lies

you did good=the saddest part is us Libruls are the ones who care and get the shit dumped on us for it.
the 9/11 attacks are buried in the crap of what the neos do,anything it takes to go back to get them what they want.

[Tactical Progressive]

59. Really nicely spoken

Thanks for posting the whole encounter. It's almost apocryphal, like the kind of situation that Democrats used to believe would represent a wake-up bell to any thinking Republican, revised to include the new modern ending that conveys just how far gone today's intransigent, mindless right wingers are.

Even if they were to be moved to reflect on reality when the real world hits them in the face it wouldn't be enough though, because it would take millions of Republicans becoming nearly destitute, which would take country-wide economic catastrophe. They simply don't feel anybody's pain but their own. She feels ashamed for herself, and you can bet if she gets back on her feet it will only strengthen her resolve that everybody else should too. There is no winning with the self-righteous.

The only thing I would have changed is the ending. I don't let Repubs get away with the 'strong on national defense' delusion. Whenever they do that I say "3000 people died on 9/11 because he wasn't doing his job or even trying to." They know it too, because they never have a comeback for that. I refuse to let them have an issue that to me defines how undeserving they are of power or respect in national security.

[sharman]

64. Agree with the consensus here

There is a willful, determined refusal to question the proud identification with conservatism, no matter the facts, no matter the impact on the person's own life.

That's why it's pathetic to read all the Democratic discussion of how to appeal to this group, how can we change the message, maybe we should move further right on abortion, gay marriage...name it. Won't make any difference. They always have an answer, however disconnected from reality.

What's formulating in my mind is the self-identification angle. They are the moral ones, the true Americans, the patriots. And they also wish to self-identify with the well-off, successful. Thus with your friend, whom you probably, rightfully, believe will quickly revert to scorning those in need, the minute she recovers from her own economic reversal.

[Bouncy Ball]

68. Great post

and you make great points. Because of knowing too many people like her, I just shake my head when I read other Dems saying things about how we can "appeal" to them. Damn if losing three jobs in two years and being forced to get food stamps AND the specter of her son about to be shipped off to Iraq doesn't do it, nothing will.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

70. These people are like drug addicts. The drug is propaganda.

I wince at the 'fuck'em' dismissive rants because Americans are steeped 24/7 in a lie matrix of TV propaganda from birth.

If we don't somehow do an intervention, these people will keep enabling the Bush*-fuelocracy that is addicted to oil and uses mass murder to get it like a violent crazed crack addict.

Some of us are fortunate enough to have the grey matter, accurate info, and emotional courage to face the horror of living in fascism.
Most DU-ers do have these three tools for getting a clue.

Many Americans don't and our attitude should be therapeutic as in:
'Forgive them, they know not what they do.' (Well, some do and are jerks but only some.)

People tend to think the way they do from childhood on and need to be offered accurate info (Proper-ganda)in a face-saving way to change.
"I appreciate your good intents but you're working with bad data.
Did you know...?" Heck, I used this tactic on a Navy recruiter next to me in line at a sandwich shop.

That's the way to deal with Republicans who are ignorant, naive, or in denial. Not by spitting in their faces. We need them ON OUR SIDE to fight back against the fascists destroying our country and the world.

I usually start with debunking the official story of 9/11 because that was the beginning of history for many folks.

"Did you know that the CIA and NORAD were doing a live fly exercise 'simulating' multiple hijacked planes crashed into buildings the morning of 9/11 while the 'real thing' was going on?"
http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html

I then talk about the Project for a New American Century empire schemers facing Peak Oil and needing a New Pearl Harbor to occupy the middle east on the way to the Caspian Sea gas and oil. The elimination of the Bill of Rights in the Unpatriot Act leads into torture and murder in the un-elected king's basement called Gitmo Bay and Abu Ghraib. The electronic voting machine scam is key to showing that democracy is a greeting card sentiment on July 4th only. Repubs don't like this, either.

Anyone you can speak to for a few minutes is a potential new ally.
Feed their brains some of this info:

Hitler was only one face of fascism that was defeated.
The financiers and war-profiteers who supported Franco, Hitler, and Mussolini ARE still in control.

Ever heard of a family called the Bushes?
100 years of apartheid, slavery, torture, murder, genocide, eugenics have them riding high as they always have.

The fascist power-brokers are rapidly undoing the swings to the left called the New Deal and Civil Rights right before our eyes.

http://www.surfaceonline.org/essayamerica6.htm
(Neofascism in America)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm
(How CIA Wars in Third World Killed 6 Million People)

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html
(The Nazi Hydra in America)

http://empirewatch.org/pages/_archives/fascism/pages/14_symptoms.html
(The 14 Symptoms of Fascism)

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-07/uop-ur2071703.php
(US Ranks 27th in World for Social Development)

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5160.shtml
(Dominionists are Replacing the Constitution With Theocracy)

http://www.bilderberg.org/trilat.htm
(The Trilateral Commission)

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html
(The Secret Team, CIA and its Allies Control the US Government)

http://www.swans.com/library/art6/zig055.html
(US Military Interventions in the 20th Century)

http://www.uua.org/news/2004/voting/sermon_loehr.html
(Living Under Fascism, A Veteran's Day Sermon in Texas)

[angel54321]

75. Appeal Shumeal.....

Right now, I am really upset at the Democratic Party. After the election, there was infighting, finger pointing, and total separation. After the elections we saw some party members get up and had to PROVE they had religion too.. to appease the rethugs...made me sick. I am religous, but seeing them pandering was unforgiving. Trying to appeal to those who are wack jobs isnt going to cut it.


One thing that really upsets me is how the repubs have a strong mesmerizing hold on their party, sick as it is and the democratic party is wishy washy and doesnt stand up for us. Look what Rep. Conyers is trying to do for us ( one good party member@!). Where is the rest of the Democratic party on this? Where is the UNISON???It seems like they just use us for elections, then when its over, they click the ignore button until another election comes around. Thats the only thing I like about Republicans. They stand up for each other in packs! We dont. Sad

I want to be proud to be a Democrat again. I want my party to fight for my rights. I want my party to hear me and stand up for me. I want my party to stand in unison ALWAYS! Where's the Democratic Pary of yesteryear? I want to be proud again.

[stopbush]

65. You handled the situation in pretty much the way I imagine I

would have handled it.

And maybe that's what's wrong with us liberals.

This "lady" has justified taking government assistance for her family while previously looking at others in the same boat as lazy scum. She doesn't realize that 1) they were never scum and 2) her taking assistance is no different than their taking assistance. Since it's her family on the gov dime, she sees the program as OK :"at least it's helping us tax-paying responsible members of society. We'll be back on our feet soon." What BS!

I hope she loses her home. Fuck her! She's like the lady on TV who was voting for * because under him her monthly income had decreased $800 per month and she was happy about it because she had learned to live less extravagantly. gw bush - teacher of moral realities!

Sadly, even when these people reach rock bottom, they don't learn. Guilt and shame work as well in politics as they do in religion. Mix it all together in the big, disgusting RW bowl and you've got illusion running on myth resulting in cognitive failure.

[pen dragon]

66. it's the stupid people you have to worry about

in a lifeboat

[Tinoire]

67. You handled that extremely, admirably well! n/t

:thumbsup:

[mogster]

72. Seconded! n/t

[sandnsea]

71. We had a similar phone call today

A friend wanted to know if a Christian minister could call and get help with some Medicare problems he's having. We've dealt with the minister before, so that didn't help the situation. My husband, who is usually much more empathetic than I am, told the friend to tell the minister he hopes he's lovin' his Bush vote. I'm having a hard time mustering up any sympathy at all for these folks.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

73. oh but how could you leave her still stupid? you should have drawn her a

picture. I went to McDonalds the other day to get a burger for the dog, he thinks they are great dog food, so do I, but don't tell the vet. I was waited on by such a lovely young lady, she seemed refined and well groomed, well spoken and studious. I couldn't resist asking her who she voted for. She said, "Bush!" I said, how much do you make here? She said, $8 per hour. I told her, "Did you know that Bush wants to allow illegal immigrants to cross our borders to work because he thinks American's won't work for $10 an hour?"