*Suppose* Democrats' biggest problem was an idiot/bigoted electorate...

[ChairOne]

How to solve?

I say "suppose" because many, if not most around here don't actually believe that. For this thread, just suppose it to be so.

It strikes me as a tough nut largely because of the chicken-egg issue: to get better leaders, you need a better electorate, but to get a better electorate you need better leaders (putting in wise policies).

Or to put it another way, idiot/bigots vote for idiot/bigots.

So I'm curious to hear about possible ways to break out of this vicious cycle. In some sense, time is of the essence. That is, it took 100 years to get from abolition to Civil Rights. I don't think solutions of the form "wait for 100 years" are the most helpful here. Unless that's all there is, of course...

[Prodemsouth]

1. Cycles such as this have been broke before - and it usally because of

bold leadership.

[okieinpain]

2. good post, to me this is the real problem.

[ChairOne]

11. I "know" that's the problem.... I want solutions! lol

I keep hearing about all the smart people around here - would that I were one of them... How about expending cycles on this problem?

I'm open to solutions inspired by parenting experiences (I have none).

Is it possible to convince the stupid and/or the bigoted that there are bigger fish to fry?

How about to convince the stupid and bigoted that America's problems require intelligence? That didn't seem to go over so well - got gerrymandered into "elitism". LOL - that's how it gets taken on DU too, come to think of it...

bah - I got nuthin...

[okieinpain]

13. there are two things that I can think of 1. a great leader,

the only problem with that is we tend to eat our great leaders. 2.let them do without, allow affirmative action to go, abortion, healthcare, welfare, housing. allow repugs to kill it all, then see if that wakes them up.

[ChairOne]

14. Yah - (1) doesn't really seem to be in the offing.....

And I hate (2) - dammit....

And historians out there have good knoweldge of how we ended up with Teddy the Trustbuster?

[Obviousman]

21. This seems to make sense

Let them win BIG and take it all away and see if people are still happy. Let racial profiling resurface, and make it a crime to be gay. It sounds like it would finally wake people up, but if it didn't then we'd be in a very dangerous position.

[okieinpain]

35. hey, were in a dangerous position now. the elected repugs are

going to let the little weirdo's do all the dirty work. and they will sit back and do nothing, that way when people complain they will say it wasn't them that did it.

[TwilightZone]

3. It *IS* the problem.

Every time someone suggests this, they tend to get shouted down by the DU masses, but very little else explains why 60,000,000 people would vote for a complete moron.

Ignorance, apathy, bigotry, and just plain stupidity are *very* prevalent in today's America.

What to do about it? I wish I knew. It's going to be incredibly difficult to convince this huge mob of stubborn, ignorant, apathetic people called Bush voters to change its mind or to help people realize that the current policies are heavily weighted against them.

In addition, people hate to admit that they were wrong, particularly in politics. They'd rather get royally screwed by Bush's policies than admit that he was a mistake in the first place.

[ChairOne]

4. That's what I told my friends all during the campaign in fact...

... that Kerry's biggest challenge was to get the public to admit they were wrong. Imagine how hard it is to get an 8 year old to admit being wrong. I figure it's about that hard for the general public...

In any case, I want *solutions* people! lol

[DainBramaged]

5. We appeal to reason and logic, the BFEE to hate and bigotry

[ChairOne]

6. Aye laddie, *there's* the nub...

Dunno if you read the OP or not, but appeals to reason and logic don't work so well with idiotic bigots. That's why we call them "idiotic bigots", in fact.

That's the problem. The appeal we are inclined to make will, by definition practically, fail. We just saw the appeal. Swift Boat Liars won.

idiotic bigots - 1, reason and logic - 0

Got any other solutions?

by the way - what's "BFEE"? I've seen it around, and just read over it... lol

[Karenina]

7. *Bush Family Evil Empire

eom

[ChairOne]

8. thanks! /eom

[DainBramaged]

9. That was the point

Our 'reason and logic' failed. Hate and bigotry won. Horse to water and all of those tired cliches.

[ChairOne]

10. Goddamn it! I want solutions! ;)

LOL

Are there any parents of young children out there? Maybe they might have some insights....

I love Obama, but the day this electorate elects a black man POTUS is the day I... I dunno.... become an enfranchised voter? lol

[TwilightZone]

24. Sorry.

I know you were looking for solutions, and we really haven't offered much.

I tend to agree with one of the other posters - politics seems to be somewhat cyclical. I've often thought (hoped?) that people would begin to see Bush and his cronies the way that *we* see them - as a bunch of incompetent morons who are in this business to make themselves as much money as possible before they are convicted or voted out of office. Unfortunately, that has yet to happen.

I know tons of people who are very strong Republicans (I live in a very "red" state.) I've tried just about everything I know of to help them see the "real" George W. Bush, but they tend to ignore reality and focus on stupid things like Bush's goofy personality. Why anyone thinks his personality is a good thing is beyond my understanding.

It's like we're all in junior high again. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to combat the junior high mentality in junior high, and I'm not much better at it now!

[ChairOne]

29. Sigh. lol - just checkin.... see if anybody could figure it out.... \eom

[Mr_Spock]

20. Hey fear sells, and we didn't offer it!

Plain and simple. We never believed that fear of such a lame enemy could be sold to the people in this country - it sold! Why we are a nation of cowards is another story - I think laziness and spoiled lifestyle factor in here.

[TwilightZone]

25. The really bizarre thing...

is that we were accused of the "politics of fear" constantly when it was the Republicans, of course, who were practicing it.

Not sure why people were so gullible about that....

[Mr_Spock]

32. "Nation of Cowards, Nation of Cowards"

"We all live in a nation of cowards"
http://www.disenfranchisedmusic.com/mp3/noa.mp3

[ChairOne]

33. Point well-taken....

They're not just bigots and/or idiots, but also cowards. Too cowardly to even care about, let alone deal with the truth. yadayadayada... (I picked up that phrase from a friend years ago... still with me...)

[ChairOne]

12. Insights from game theory?

It's been a looong time since I studied it with any seriousness... Are there prisoners' dilemma strategies that might provide insights?

[MisterP]

15. affable, blue-collar candidates going to South Succotash

to focus on economic issues?
Unless this is a gotcha thread in order to promote Republicanism in a donkey suit (yes, I've seen such events before, though not actually entrapped by 'em).

[ChairOne]

16. lol - no worries - i'm pretty upfront with what I think...

... much to others' chargin, perhaps...

Fair enough idea - you think that we could get the jackasses to care about the own wallet (sheesh) if we had someone who was more (wo)man-of-the-people-ish?

Is there anyone like that handy at the moment? On our side, that is - lol

[quiet.american]

17. How did Clinton do it? n/t

[ChairOne]

18. I guess the affable yokel thing?

Combined with the un-affability of Dole? Or was that his second term?

[quiet.american]

19. Dole-ful was the 2nd term

Poppy Bush was the first K.O. :)

[ChairOne]

26. Duh - sheesh.... I amaze myself sometimes..... lol

So ok, affable yokel versus outta touch wimp who breaks campaign promises... that worked out pretty well...

I betcha to the idiot public eye, Clinton's initial attractiveness was similar to Bush's. The affable yokel bit, I mean...

[TwilightZone]

28. That's probably not too far from the truth.

The one thing that the two men have in common in terms of the perception of the general public is that they are both deemed "likable". (I've never understood why people think Bush is so likable. Because he's a dopey nitwit?)

That very fact instigated a ton of discussion here on DU during the primaries about whether or not we needed a "likable" candidate above all else.

[gizmo1979]

22. We lost the south

when Johson fought for civil rights,so you be the judge are they bigoted or not?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. There's no "suppose" about it.

Most Americans are woefully ignorant about even the basics of democracy.
They mix it up with capitalism and patriotism. They know little about the history of the United States other than the romanticized version so beloved by the right. They are incredibly ignorant of the rest of the world, or even about the rest of the country.

Throw in some massive apathy and we end up with Corporate Republicans and their corporate Democratic (DLC) collaborators in charge.

Solution? The bills are coming due, the bodybags are stacking up, and the oil prices are interfering with the spending on toys. They tend to wake up when it hits home.

[ChairOne]

27. LOL - was just trying to be "big tent" with the "suppose" bit...

Dammit - I hate solutions of the form "wait for it to get completely FUBAR, then things'll get better".

I want better. That's of course not to say it actually exists...

[AlienGirl]

30. Then we need to educate and persuade!

I don't buy the idea that the majority of people are inherently dumb, but I do think they are ignorant. The good news is that ignorance can be cured by education.

We need talented, motivated people on the Left to educate people about liberal ideas and persuade them that our ideas are better than the right-wing ideas. We need to advertise our ideas in ways that make people see why they are best.

Basically, we need some really, really good PR people to educate the voters and make liberalism a hot commodity in the marketplace of ideas.

Tucker

[ChairOne]

31. No one - to my ears - ever said anyone was *inherently* dumb....

I don't recall that being either suggested or implied in anything anybody here has said. Where are you getting that from?

But your suggestion is that PR is the only thing standing between us and 60 million idiots and bigots? I dunno - mebbe... You mean like run down to Madison Ave., and grab some piping hot fresh PR?

[BillZBubb]

34. The only way is for a disaster to occur.

Americans are self absorbed and self-centered. Not much different from people anywhere else really except we are in a country with massive economic and military power. So, that makes us dangerous.

Historically, the left has not done well in this country until something occurs which negatively and strongly affects most of the people. When it's happening to someone else, they don't care. But when it happens to them they get interested.

The last such calamity was the Great Depression. People have forgotten the lessons of that period and have forgotten (or have never heard) who was responsible.

Unfortunately, we will have to wait for the inevitable bad ending to the Busholini era before we regain significant power in this once great land. Sad, but true.