The Power of Nightmares / BBC exposes the American NeoCons

[Tinoire]

((The BBC video at http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104powerofnightmares.htm is a MUST WATCH!))

The Power of Nightmares: The Shadows In The Cave

BBC | November 12 2004

The Power of Nightmares assesses whether the threat from a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion. In the concluding part of the series, the programme explains how the illusion was created and who benefits from it.
===============================================

Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power
by Thom Hartmann

What if there really was no need for much - or even most - of the Cold War? What if, in fact, the Cold War had been kept alive for two decades based on phony WMD threats? What if, similarly, the War On Terror was largely a scam, and the administration was hyping it to seem larger-than-life? What if our "enemy" represented a real but relatively small threat posed by rogue and criminal groups well outside the mainstream of Islam? What if that hype was done largely to enhance the power, electability, and stature of George W. Bush and Tony Blair?

And what if the world was to discover the most shocking dimensions of these twin deceits - that the same men promulgated them in the 1970s and today?

It happened.

The myth-shattering event took place in England the first three weeks of October, when the BBC aired a three-hour documentary written and produced by Adam Curtis, titled "The Power of Nightmares." If the emails and phone calls many of us in the US received from friends in the UK - and debate in the pages of publications like The Guardian are any indicator, this was a seismic event, one that may have even provoked a hasty meeting between Blair and Bush a few weeks later.

(snip / a very reluctant snip)

Whatever your plans are for tonight or tomorrow, clip three hours out of them and take the Red Pill. Get a pair of headphones (the audio is faint), plug them into your computer, and visit an unofficial archive of the Curtis' BBC documentary at the Information Clearing House website. (The third hour of the program, in a more viewable format, is also available here.)

For those who prefer to read things online, an unofficial but complete transcript is on this Belgian site.

But be forewarned: You'll never see political reality - and certainly never hear the words of the Bush or Blair administrations - the same again.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm

Thom Hartmann (thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show. www.thomhartmann.com His most recent books are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight", "Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights", "We The People: A Call To Take Back America", "The Edison Gene", and "What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return To Democracy".


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm

===================================

BBC NEWS: The Power of Nightmares: Baby It's Cold Outside

Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?

(snip)

In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.

The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.

In a new series, the Power of Nightmares explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion.

At the heart of the story are two groups: the American neo-conservatives and the radical Islamists.

(snip)

They would create a hidden network of evil run by the Soviet Union that only they could see.

(snip)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm


Part I: Baby It's Cold Outside
Part II: The Phantom Victory
Part III: The Shadows in the Cave
Your comments: Page 1
Your comments: Page 2

[Tace]

1. Tinoire: I Read The Transcript Earlier Today -- Excellent Stuff

I highly recommend this documentary to everyone. It's tops.

[Tinoire]

5. Thanks! Let's keep it kicked so more can see. I was stunned! n/t

[Eloriel]

57. YOU were stunned?

Then I'd better read it post haste instead of just bookmarking it for later reference. YOU were stunned? Hah! I'm stunned at that. I didn't think there was much that could stun YOU these days. :evilgrin:

[Tinoire]

60. Lol!

What stunned me wasn't the content or the facts presented but that this made it to national TV in a first world country and has gotten so many people over in the UK looking at Blair very, very differently!

It was one of those "happily stunned" things ;) Old Blair is going down! And what we need is to either get that program shown on TV or make our own. Whew... now that would be some DU project- can you imagine?!

Watch the third hour, imagine watching that on US TV and tell me what you think. I'm excited Eloriel. This is what DUers have been exposing for years while a certain crowd kept poo-pooing it as being the stuff of conspiracy theories. We have won. People like us have won by just getting the word out.

Let me know what you think about the third hour, the one at Prison Planet. You could have directed it yourself!

[Tinoire]

79. See post 73 n/t

[leftchick]

2. Yet another gem of a post Tinoire!

I have not devoured it all yet but I am working on it in bits while on vacation.

Thank you and Peace! :)
lc

[Tinoire]

6. :blush:

Thank the guys at whatreallyhappened.com. They provided this start points & I just built from there. :) Thanks and HAPPY VACATION!

[Just Me]

139. You are amazing. I am grateful for your "humbled" contributions!!!

I am in awe of your talents.

Thank you.

[Taxloss]

3. Lord Reith would be proud of this.

"Nation shall speak peace unto Nation."

What are the mottoes of the US networks?

(Not a dig; I'm genuinely curious.)

[Tinoire]

4. The only one I can think of is

"We spin report, you decide" from Fox :shrug:

Quite embarrassing.

==

I am extremely proud of the(your?) BC. I'm also EXTREMELY thrilled they've made this available over the internet! Whoooaa!!

:hatsoff:

[Taxloss]

7. Well, the BBC is sort of "mine", since I'm British.

But I can't really claim credit for it. But I do pay for it - £120 a year. That's about $200, and compulsory.

Worth every last brown penny, and then some.

[Tinoire]

16. $200/year I pay over 3 times that and all I get is CRAP!

I get Fox.
You get the BBC.

I don't even get CNN international except at 3 am when I'm supposed to be sleeping.

Urgh- life is NOT fair!

Well as I said, my hat is off to them. You lucky one!

[bpilgrim]

21. do you have a link to the bbc site

with this video?

i didn't see it on the site www.prisonplanet.com. i would love to see the rest of the series :bounce:

peace

[Tinoire]

22. Try here

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104powerofnightmares.htm

That's only for the 3rd(?) part though. I didn't mean to mislead... thought the BBC links I placed were to the video but they're to the story. I'll look and see if I can find anything on other sites. Will update in this thread if I do.

Peace

On edit: Part 2 here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm (with transcript)

[bpilgrim]

25. wow part 1 - THANKS!

:toast:

u are the best :loveya:

peace

[Tinoire]

27. Here are some more (untested) links

I hear it was on www.supernova.org but I couldn't find it. Hopefully one of these will work! I can't test them all... my computer is old and dying lol Good luck!

=====

BBC programme that ran on wednesday

Lo-Fi (but Full-Screen watchable!)

6meg
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/video/2/power_of_nightmares_1_1of3.avi
30meg
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/video/3/power_of_nightmares_1_2of3.avi
29meg
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/video/4/power_of_nightmares_1_3of3.avi

Higher Quality
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2842/The_Power_Of_Nightmares_pt1-avi.torrent

Another Low Quality one:

* Name: BBC The Power Of Nightmares pt1.rmvb
* Info Hash: 71f5e02006a2113bc71dbf82eec478b5474eccd5
* Added: 2004 10/22 04:18:28
* Size: 64.72 MB

DOWNLOAD TORRENT
http://politics.no-ip.info:6969/stats.html?info_hash=71f5e02006a2113bc71dbf82eec478b5474eccd5
http://politics.no-ip.info:6969/torrent.html?info_hash=71f5e02006a2113bc71dbf82eec478b5474eccd5

Comment by BBC public owned — Monday, October 25th, 2004 @ 10:51 am

here are some other links for this series avalible on p2p networks.
The Power of Nightmares (2004).avi blogs.linux.ie/xeer/go.php?http://www.filesyouneed.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=287



=====
Lo-res RealVideo format:

The Power of Nightmares, Part I (Information Clearing House)
The Power of Nightmares, Part II (Information Clearing House)
The Power of Nightmares, Part III (Information Clearing House)

Unofficial transcripts and other links:

The Power of Nightmares transcripts and links
The Power of Nightmares transcripts and links
The Power of Nightmares transcript

Other information:

The making of the terror myth (Guardian UK)
The Power of Nightmares (Disinfopedia)
The Power of Nightmares (blog post)
The Power of Nightmares (blog post)
The Power of Nightmares (IMDB user comments)
The Power of Nightmares (kuro5hin)
The Power of Nightmares (blog post)
BBC's The Power Of Nightmares - Adam Curtis Responds

[dmr]

65. Here's a bittorrent:

The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear (BBC)
http://www.bi-torrent.com/232.htm it's a DVD-rip and 1333mb

Thanks Tinore, I'm happy to see you. Fortunately, someone emailed me the link to this thread, or I would have missed it.

I'm anxious to watch this. I am always of the belief that nothing is as it seems - that there are those behind the shadowy shadows who are playing all of us. From what I've read in this thread alone, I know I will get another sick pit in my stomach.

Anyway, it's good to see you. I wish you and us all a good and strong dissenting America.

[Tinoire]

66. Hi dmr!

:hi:

1. Glad people are passing this around and
2. thanks for the link

and 3 :( what is a bittorrent? I'm hopelessly behind on new technology and really appreciate an education because I saw that term when I was looking for links yesterday.

Peace to you & you know I wish you (and us all) the same!

[AntiCoup2K4]

81. Another bit torrent link here

http://s2.isohunt.com/download.php?mode=bt&id=2481088

[Tinoire]

103. Thanks but briefly... what is a bit torrent?

and what do you need to play it?

[starroute]

110. Bittorrent is a peer-to-peer file sharing system

Here's a link to get BitTornado, which is a Bittorrent client:
http://bittornado.com

My son says to just install BitTornado, then click on any Bittorrent link and BitTornado will start downloading the file for you. (It will ask where you want it saved.) Once it's done, you will have a video file which (depending on file type) you ought to be able to play using whatever video player is already on your system.

[Tinoire]

111. Terrific! Thank you

Please tell me you didn't know that before asking your son. Please, please :) I'm beginning to feel old lol...

Thanks... Can't wait to use this!

[Tinoire]

123. Fixed links for Low Resolution Videos at Information Clearing House

Just noticed I chopped off part of the urls somehow, my apologies..

These are really low res!

The Power of Nightmares, Part I (Information Clearing House)
The Power of Nightmares, Part II (Information Clearing House)
The Power of Nightmares, Part III (Information Clearing House)

[alfredo]

8. Excellent post

It needs to be kicked.

[Tinoire]

28. Thanks Alfredo!

Love that big X !!

[alfredo]

36. Yer welcomed

You familiar with Apple's X11?

[Tinoire]

38. No... Apple as in Steve Jobs? n/t

[alfredo]

42. Yes

the big X is Apple's logo for their version of X11

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/

[Tinoire]

45. It's a suave logo! I like it! & it works nicely as an avatar

very activist.... very Malcolm X! peace

[alfredo]

58. I thought of that. I figured

that even if a person didn't get the inside reference, they could attach a meaning to it.

[lovuian]

9. Its what we all have been saying Fear is the weapon

being used against America!!!

[CoffeeAnnan]

12. And fear works because we, who think we are the greatest, are not

so sure we are and know that we have clay feet and fear being exposed as paper tigers by brown, black and the yellow peoples of the world.

[KlatooBNikto]

10. Absolutely dead on. They have got us by the balls and our hearts

and minds are sure to follow.

[Paleocon]

11. Here's a big "I hate NeoCons" bump!!!

Good stuff! Thanks!

[peacetalksforall]

13. This I do believe...we've been spammed and scammed for decades.

And the result is a real threat of impending serfdom and slavery, loss of future for our descendents, mind and body control, loss of promised rights. We just have to wake enough sports and soap watchers. How to do it? Start with those who can access sites like this.

[Just Me]

140. No ONE wants to engage in this "reality check".

It's easier to PRETEND that reality,...is not real.

[RBHam]

14. I'm going to bring this up on Malloy tonight...

This "War" is a Corporate sell job...

[bpilgrim]

15. excellent idea - cept they are a little generous with us, IMHO

left out the whole part about us training and funding of UBL before he became the all powerful bogey man.

and they didn't touch on any of the CT stuff regarding 911, though this is unfortunately, probably for the best, for now, first get their scam terror war called on first them we can look a little deeper.

i am only 1/2 way through this but it is devastating and if this becomes common knowledge - and it being on BBC is an excellent beginning - the neoCONs only out would be to pull a complete fascist takeover :scared:

great post tin, per usual :toast:

:hi:

peace

[Tinoire]

18. I have to watch it again. Was too distracted formatting the post

to pay total attention. It is devastating and I am THRILLED to see it out for free on the internetS (lol).

The BBC has taken several stands against the rising fascism but this one is at the TOP!

Peace :hi:

[bpilgrim]

20. i'm gonna rip a quicktime version (mp4)

for the rest of us ;->

i think it was much better to not even go there since it would only muddy the msg which strikes at the HEART of the neoCON designs.

thanks Tinoire for your tireless efforts helping keeping all us evil DU'ers INFORMED :toast: :loveya:

peace

[livinginphotographs]

64. Add me to your list as well.

I can only really watch these at work, and that would take too long. I'd much prefer to download it, burn it, and watch it in the privacy of my own home.

Can you PM me when you get it up?

[bpilgrim]

43. just finnished part 1 and they DO mention our support of him and radical

'muslims' in general... so, belay my last ;->

but WOW this is a GREAT background into the whole neoCON gang, it's AWESOME.

time to watch part II.

thanks again for posting :toast:

peace

[Tinoire]

46. Can you let me know when you have that done?

I would LOVE one! Peace :toast:

[bpilgrim]

48. will do

i'll DU you when i post here... probably sometime tomorrow i will have it on my website.

peace

[Tinoire]

17. Terrific! Thanks RB!!!! n/t

[LynnTheDem]

19. P of N is a MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST WATCH!

The ENTIRE WORLD is talking about it...except of course 50% of the US of A.

[InvisibleBallots]

23. the crux of the issue

The USSR was on it's way down since the 1970s, and everyone knew it - except for the suckers who bought the Reagan song and dance routine.

Same thing happening now.

[hansberrym]

24. It never ceases to amaze me how prescient the early leaders

of our nation were.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/jqadams.htm



The Neo-cons are not the only problem. Before Bush jr there was Clinton and his foray into the Boznia conflict that was spurred on by cropped photos of supposed concentration camps.

Before Clinton there was GHW Bush and his quest for the New World Order by way of the Gulf War and Somalia.

Before GHW Bush there was Reagan and his meddling in central america and the middle east.


Before Reagan there was Jimmy Carter who thought it was his job to save the world.


Nixon-Johnson-Kennedy-Eisenhower-Truman-FDR ---Wilson

The whitehouse has been held by both Repubs and Dems over the last 90 years but the policy of going in search of monsters to destroy remained unchanged.


We are being herded into a global government, and fear is one of the tools. Another tool is deception(calling NAFTA, FTAA, the former EC mere trade agreements when they are in reality regional governments that will prefigure the eventual global government.


What can we do right now?

Write(snail mail)and tell our Senators and Congressmen to reject any further "trade Agreements".

[Tinoire]

29. hansberrym (unrelated question)

Do you remember the name of the PR firm they hired that was responsible for those cropped photos? I lost my old files and really need (ok want) to know.

I'm with you on your astute statement. Do not forget Brezhinski...

Back and forth we go... from the iron fist to the velvet fist.

[hansberrym]

72. ITN was the company name

search: Penny Marshall ITN cropped photo Bosnia

Turns up many links some show one or two pics, but most want to sell video.

http://emperor.vwh.net/letters/attacked.htm

[Tinoire]

76. Thank you. I just saw this. Thank you VERY VERY much

for digging up the name! I am indebted to you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. ITN is not a PR company; it is the main competitor to the BBC in the UK

it supplies the news programmes for the 3 independent TV broadcast channels in the UK. They sued LM magazine over the accusations, and won.

Guardian report on the court case

[Tinoire]

98. Thanks! Both of you! It was Ruder & Finn Global Public Relations

that I was thinking of.

[itzamirakul]

26. Great information! As usual, I am

passing your information on to my list. They will appreciate it.

[Tinoire]

30. itzamirakul

You should just move out here to CA and we team up ;) Thanks

[itzamirakul]

34. If only....

I could! :)

[tsuki]

31. Thanks, and kick. eom

[cleofus1]

32. jeepers!

Sounds like a great program. The damn thing is that I have BBC on cable but all it shows are programs how gardening and landscaping and such....:cry:

[Tinoire]

33. Post 1, 22, 27 have links so you can watch over your computer

:evilgrin:

Don't forget to thank President Gore for the internetS ;)

[cleofus1]

52. thank you uncle al

he's my second favorite uncle...uncle bill is still the best!

[Elwood P Dowd]

35. You have the US version of BBC

Not worth much. :(

[cleofus1]

53. no shit...

is there satellite bbc? i can't do a dish anyways...i rent...but why the hell does the u.s. have lame o version the BBC?

[Tinoire]

61. Lol, Post 56 has your answer.

Corporate control of the media is crucial.

The French channel here is a watered down fluff channel too :(

[rman]

56. with all these global media they still manage

to tell one story to one part of the world and another story to another part.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. That's not the REAL BBC

That's BBC America, which is owned by the Discovery Channel and shows about 90% crap, along with some really good mystery dramas and a couple of great comedies. It merely buys programs from the BBC, and I must say that the program director has terrible taste.

[Desertrose]

37. wow ...and HI Tinoire

Fantastic!! I will definitely check this out!!!

How can the whole world and much of the US see things and yet such a big part remain blind.....?

:hi: Great to see ya again Tinoire...hope things are good with ya :)
:hug:DR

[Tinoire]

39. Good question!

:hug: my friend!

I think the answer lies in media... I hear this is the talk of the world and yet, here in the US, I had to go on a lol, "subversive" site to find out about it.

Happy New Year DR. God knows we all deserve one!

[magellan]

40. Incredible

So simple, so deadly. What I find most interesting is that the amoral neocons believe that using immoral means to fix our "corrupt liberal society" is justified because they know the difference between good and evil. Bwa-ha-ha!! Now there's a hypocritical conundrum that sums them up to a T if I ever heard one!!

The only significant piece of the puzzle the BBC overlooked is the corporate globalist angle. Those people don't care who's good or bad as long as their profit margin goes up. And they're definitely along for the ride.

One final thought: Wolfowitz can bite my sweet liberal ass.

[CabalPowered]

41. Your avatar is tops!! -eom-

[bpilgrim]

44. they sound just like the extremist whose policies they supposedly despise

very creepy.

i am so glad this is out :bounce:

peace

[Tinoire]

47. Oooow Magellan

Welcome to DU!!

I still haven't watched the whole thing & can't wait to.

I'll look out for the corporate globalist angle; it's one that's rarely brought up and I agree, it sorely needs to be.

Such a heart-felt final thought. I'd like to share it with you :toast:

[magellan]

49. Hey, Tinoire

Thank YOU for the link to the video and transcript! I read the whole thing...one sitting...head exploding. :) Maybe you haven't got to the part yet that explains my ever-increasing loathing for Wolfowitz. You will. In the meantime, cheers! :toast:

You know, after living in the UK for several years and returning to what passes for investigative journalism here, I really miss paying for the Beeb (BBC). You have no choice over there...If you don't pay your annual tv license you're fined BIG TIME, even if you never watch the BBC. And they will eventually catch you. They send detector vans around neighborhoods to home in on signals. Sounds mad, but it's true.

Oh, and to CabalPowered, I got my avatar from Roddenberry.com. The Trek Fish was a Xmas prezzie from my husband.

[Tinoire]

50. Hahaha

Sounds like Germany! I remember the little spy trucks driving around in Berlin to see who had an illegal TV hook-up in their home so it doesn't sound mad at all! I know what you mean about the investigative journalism. I miss European news like you can't believe but thank God we have the internet and places like DU.

I'll watch the rest of the program tomorrow and come chat with you about Wolfowitz. I must warn you, it would just be one big bitch session. My mother remembers him from his days at Johns Hopkins and always hated him for his views.

Little factoid for you. Wolfowitz' girlfriend is an Arab feminist. I kid you not! She's Saudi Arabian, World Bank, "previously worked for the Iraq Foundation, set up by expatriates in 1991 to push for democracy and human rights in that country after the first Gulf war, and then established the Middle East programme at the National Endowment for Democracy, a federal agency created under Ronald Reagan in 1983 with the ambitious goal of promoting American political values internationally"... You might already know this...

In fact, there is a woman from whom Mr Wolfowitz does draw support and backing for his views, but she comes from a very different - and unexpected - background. The Telegraph can reveal that his closest companion and most valued confidantes is a middle-aged Arab feminist whose own strongly held views on instilling democracy in her native Middle East have helped bolster his resolve.

Shaha Ali Riza is a senior World Bank official who was born in Tunis, grew up in Saudi Arabia and holds an international relations masters degree from St Anthony's College, Oxford. Close acquaintances of the couple have told The Telegraph that she is romantically linked with Mr Wolfowitz, 61, a fellow divorcee with whom she has been friends for several years.

Even by the discreet standards of Washington's powerful inner circle, it is a remarkably closely guarded secret. They rarely go out as a couple openly or demonstrate affection publicly, according to friends who are aware of the relationship. They attend low-key Washington social events and visit friends' homes together and Ms Riza also sometimes goes to official functions and dinners with him, but is not identified as his partner, an acquaintance said. 'Most people would never guess there was a relationship, even if they saw them together,' he said.

It is a sign of the sensitivity surrounding the relationship that the few friends willing even to acknowledge it last week did not want to be named. 'Shaha Riza runs around with Wolfowitz a lot. I gather that she is his current girlfriend but they are very careful about this,' said one.

Ms Riza was on holiday last week on a ranch in Wyoming and did not respond to messages left for her. Mr Wolfowitz did not return a call placed with his office at the Pentagon.

(snip)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/01/wolf01.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/08/01/i

Here's a picture of her but it's a bad picture. I heard she's much prettier than this shows:

[magellan]

68. I hadn't heard this -- surprising!

But I suppose in an odd way it makes sense, if true. Her World Bank connection is telling. She's also highly educated (just as all good neocons are; another of their hypocrisies), and as an Arab feminist she'd wholly support the US goal of "spreading democracy" in the ME. All in all she sounds made to order for Wolfowitz. Imagine the pillow talk! Brrr....

How ironic that they're forced to hide their relationship. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Wolfowitz being part of an administration that strives to divide people by inflaming prejudices, could it? :eyes:

I'm up for a bitch session about Wolfowitz! I don't know all too much about him -- my knowledge of the neocons is more general (and my loathing of them compounds exponenetially with everything I learn) -- but I'd love to hear your mother's recollections of him. Wasn't he a student of Leo Strauss, the father of neoconism? Or am I thinking of another neocon?

Ah, so you're familiar with the enforcement of tv licenses. How long did you live in Germany? Are you European by birth?

[Tinoire]

69. Lol!

My mother didn't know him personally. Just knew what kind of garbage he was sprouting at the university, recognized the moral emptiness of it but didn't pay much attention to him until later. He is a discilple of Leo Strauss... not sure about student but that part's easily googled. All the neo-cons and neo-liberals are disciples of Strauss... I have a post from last weeek I'll past below for you (you might enjoy it ;) )...

Berlin... 10 years... American by birth :) And you?

====

PNAC is a small off-shoot, occupying the 5th floor, of the American Enterprise Institute which has been around since 1943. AEI has had 12 very busy floors with plenty of time to send their operatives to the Democratic Party, or leave them in to be more accurate since the PNACers & AEIers are ORIGINALLY DEMOCRATS. To this day Richard Perle, Fieth and Wolfowitz are still Democrats. The day the Republican party, which they hijacked also, no longer suits their needs, they'll follow other PNAC neo-cons like Marshall Wittman back to the DLC.

The AEI, the PNAC & the DLC were founded by Scoop Jackson democrats who follow the philosophy of Leo Strauss. To this day the DLC is stacked with neo-conservative ideologues, who maintain deep personal ties to the war-mongers in the Bush Administration.

The DLC is following the footsteps of its neo-conservative, war-mongering predecessor organizations of the 1970s: the Coalition for a Democratic Majority (CDM)((also see www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Coalition_for_a_Democratic_Majority)), founded in 1972 by the likes of Richard Perle, Midge Decter, Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, and Jeane Kirkpatrick, among others; the Committee on the Present Danger (CPD) ((also see www.rightweb.irc-online.org/groupwatch/cpd.php)), founded in 1976 by Richard Perle, Midge Decter, Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, and Jeane Kirkpatrick, et al; and the Committee for the Free World (CFW) (( also see www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Committee_for_the_Free_World)), founded in 1981 by exactly the same crew. Rounding out the picture, CFW's chairman was Donald Rumsfeld.

The "missing link" between the "Democratic" DLC and the now-
"Republican" CDM/CPD/CFW neo-cons, is the Social Democrats-USA,
(SDUSA), whose chairman, Penn Kemble, was the Executive Director of
the Coalition for a Democratic Majority in 1972, until he brought in
Richard Perle's underling Stephen Bryen to take his place. Bryen, who
created the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) in
the early 1980s, when he served as Perle's aide at the Department of
Defense, is another leading member of the neo-conservative gang that
wants to go to war against the entire Arab world in the name of
anti-terrorism. Providing daily coordination between Perle and Bryen
would be Joshua Muravchik, a fixture at nearly every American
Enterprise Institute event--but also a leader of SDUSA since its
creation.

The DLC and SDUSA both maintain extremely close links to Tony Blair's
British "New Labour" party faction, and in parallel, are out to
recreate a new version of the Coalition for a Democratic Majority in
time for the 2004 elections. The battle cry for this effort is to
follow the "strong defense" lead of the original CDM's heroes: the
late Dem Senators Henry "Scoop" Jackson, and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

The CDM's two leading lights in Congress were the Democratic Senators
Jackson and Moynihan. The Cold Warrior and fanatically pro-Israel
Jackson remains the model for the DLC crowd today. Former DLC
president Joe Lieberman declares he is proud to be identified as a
"'Scoop' Jackson Democrat." It was these two Senators' offices that
housed the Straussians behind the no-exit Iraq War.

http://forums.alternet.org/guest/motet?show+-ui13dz+-ilad+Issues+527+-25-

From Jackson's office:
Paul Wolfowitz
Richard Perle
Frank Gaffney

From Moynihan's office:
Elliott Abrams
Abram Shulsky
Gary Schmitt

In 1999, Norman Podhoretz, known as the "father" of neo-conservatism, wrote that the CDM was created to destroy the policies of 1972 Dem nominee George McGovern in the Democratic Party, especially because of McGovern's opposition the CDM was a flop that "never got off the ground." But in the mid-80s, the DLC certainly did get off the ground, and controls the Democratic Party today.

http://forums.alternet.org/guest/motet?show+-ui13dz+-ilad+Issues+527+-25-

"...In the 1970s, under the leadership of Carl Gershman, SD/USA ((Social Democrats-USA)) became a supporter of Sen. Henry Jackson and his contingent of conservative, hawkish "defenders of democracy." As such, they gained a great deal of political experience and savvy, but little political power. It was not until the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, that the SD/USA achieved positions of power and influence in both the labor movement and the government. (2)..."

"http://rightweb.irc-online.org/groupwatch/sd-usa.php"

Some SD-USA members:

"Carl Gershman, chair of SD/USA from 1974 to 1980, was an aide to
Jeane Kirkpatrick when she was the U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations. In 1984, he served as an adviser to the National Bipartisan
Commission on Central America (the Kissinger Commission) established
by President Reagan. (2) Penn Kemble was on the advisory committee of
the U.S. Information Agency's (USIA) Voice of America. (34) Arch
Puddington worked for USIA's Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty. (35)
Elliott Abrams was Assistant Secretary of State for InterAmerican
Affairs in the Reagan administration. Prior to that he served as
Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and as a staffer for
Sen. Henry Jackson. (40) Abrams was a major figure in the Iran-Contra
Affair. (41) Bruce McColm served as a consultant to the U.S. Senate's
Central American Monitoring Group and has taken congressional
representatives on fact-finding tours in Central America. (11) Jeane
Kirkpatrick was the U.S. delegate to the United Nations during the
Reagan administration. (53) Max Kampleman was a legislative counsel
for Sen. Hubert Humphrey and a chief U.S. negotiator to the Geneva
arms talks with the Soviet Union. (40)"

The anti-communist, anti-left fervor of SD-USA is no second to PNAC
(or the DLC, for that matter). Members were leaders in the AFL-CIO's
efforts in overthrowing Allende in Chile, and later in anti-left
action in Central America; they have been in the leadership of the
CIA's subversion wing -- the NED -- since its inception; they have
been on the board of the terrorist Mas Canosa's Cuban-American
National Foundation; they supported the 2002 coup against Chavez in
Venezuela and continue to support opposition terrorists, purging
unions in Venezuela (just as everywhere else) of any "left" leadership
or influence by whatever means necessary.

http://forums.alternet.org/guest/motet?show+-ui13dz+-ilad+Issues+527+-25-

Michael Lind for instance traced their roots back to the right wing Shactmanite faction of the American Trotskyite movement who entered the Democratic Party in the 1960s and then split with the Left over the Vietnam War. Many members of this group continued their rightward itinerary by rallying to Senator Scoop Jackson’s campaign against the New Democrats. Some finished with the Democratic Leadership Council, while others found a home in the Reagan and now the Bush fils administrations. Other critics who promote an “Iran-Contra bis” scenario for the current flap over intelligence trace the group back to the policy cabal that had promoted the Contra war against the Sandinistas and who had lost their power and influence in the second Reagan Administration as a result of the Iran-Contra hearings of the late 1980s.
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm

I'd like to point out, that another committee spawned from the same cancer was the Balkan Action Committee which brought us step one of the PNAC wars, the one against Yugoslavia, and was staffed by the same neo-Cons. Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abramowitz, Carlucci were all on its executive Committee.

Anyway, I think you're getting the drift. They're pretty much the same. Both the same cancer, coming from the same place & destroying both parties.

If I were a Republican, I'd be pissed as hell at the Democrats from whom this shit spawned.

So IMO, you may theoretically be correct that PNAC did not create the DLC but in spirit you're incorrect because they, as well as the AEI, were spawned from the offices of Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson (-D) and Senator Patrick Moynihan (-D).

Interestingly enough AEI was founded by neo-Con Irving Kristol. PNAC was founded by his loving son neo-Con son William Kristol.
Both vile pieces of shit.

[magellan]

75. Darn, I thought maybe she dated him

...until he started calling her Pinky and telling her about his plans to take over the world! lol

That post you shared is similar to what someone tried to explain to me this summer on the JK forum: that neocons aren't conservatives. I say 'tried' because this kind person TOTALLY lost me with his references to neoliberals and other factions, despite his best efforts, because none of them live up to their labels. For this I need charts and graphs. ;) In any case, yeah, they're everywhere in government. Just one more good reason to jettison the DLC, eh?

About Wolfowitz and Strauss, I found this in an article for Vanity Fair.:

Q: First of all, the question of ideas. That is, is there anything at all, we talked about this a little off the record, is there anything at all to the Straussian Connection ?

Wolfowitz : It's a product of fevered minds who seem incapable of understanding that September 11th changed a lot of things and changed the way we need to approach the world. Since they refused to confront that, they looked for some kind of conspiracy theory to explain it. I mean I took two terrific courses from Leo Strauss as a graduate student. One was on Montesquieu's spirit of the laws, which did help me understand our Constitution better. And one was on Plato's laws. The idea that this has anything to do with U.S. foreign policy is just laughable.

I'm surprised, actually. My memory for details isn't ususally that good! :) But there it is. And basically he denies that there's any truth to the conspiracy theory that he's an elitist who makes things up so he and his compadres can lord it over us peasants. Yet once again we witness the "say one thing, do the opposite" neocon mentality in reading this interview. Wolfowitz may deny cleaving to Strauss' philosophy, but it's quite apparent in him all the same.

Another good article, entitled Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception illustrates precisely what we see this administration doing:

Rule One: Deception

...Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right – the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, according to Drury. Robert Locke, another Strauss analyst says,"The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy, according to Drury, author of 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (St. Martin's 1999).

Second Principle: Power of Religion

According to Drury, Strauss had a "huge contempt" for secular democracy. Nazism, he believed, was a nihilistic reaction to the irreligious and liberal nature of the Weimar Republic. Among other neoconservatives, Irving Kristol has long argued for a much greater role for religion in the public sphere, even suggesting that the Founding Fathers of the American Republic made a major mistake by insisting on the separation of church and state. And why? Because Strauss viewed religion as absolutely essential in order to impose moral law on the masses who otherwise would be out of control.

At the same time, he stressed that religion was for the masses alone; the rulers need not be bound by it. Indeed, it would be absurd if they were, since the truths proclaimed by religion were "a pious fraud." As Ronald Bailey, science correspondent for Reason magazine points out, "Neoconservatives are pro-religion even though they themselves may not be believers."

And we aren't seeing neoconism at work? Methinks the neocons doth protest too much.

And lastly, I lived in the UK for eight years, husband's a Brit, but I'm American. We might have been poorer but better off staying in Europe, Tinoire! Wolfowitz would love to wipe out us liberals and our pesky individualism.

[Tinoire]

77. Strauss. Horrified. I feel like a stunned German under Hitler

...Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right – the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

Jeesus. You have no idea what can of worms that quote just opened for me. You KNOW I knew it was bad but this is worse than I had ever thought. To see it in print like that. That is as chilling as reading something Hitler would have written while living during the Third Reich. And knowing. Watching. Seeing it happen in front of your very eyes. What monstrous evil.

This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, according to Drury. Robert Locke, another Strauss analyst says,"The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy

Take care. I am glad to have run into you Magellan.

[magellan]

85. Likewise, Tinoire! (nim)

[Tinoire]

82. Leo Strauss. Biography. How will history write this?

When we go down in history right next to the Nazis?

Leo Strauss, a political philosopher-king who taught the works of Plato, Nietzsche and Hobbes for two decades at the University of Chicago. According to his profile published in the Executive Intelligence Review in March 2003 Strauss is seen as the "Fascist Godfather of the Neo-Cons." In its September/October 2003 issue, Adbuster Magazine notes of Leo Strauss that he believed in the efficacy and usefulness of "noble lies" in politics to keep the uncomprehending masses in line; that the strong are fit to rule; the weak ought, in turn, to be ruled; that it is important and necessary for political entities to use force and fraud to prosper; and that "nationalism requires an external threat - and if one cannot be found, it must be manufactured." Strauss, the article notes, "produced a small army of devoted pupils"

[magellan]

83. It depends on who writes history

Remember, the victors write history, and for all the damage they've done the neocons haven't won yet. We're still here. And we have not yet begun to fight! :)

[Tinoire]

124. This guy "Strauss" is nightmarish! How frightening his philosophy is

So Strauss' favorite show was Gunsmoke? Now we know where Bush got the phrase "We're gonna smoke em out". The link is downright creepy.

There's so much I didn't know about all of this so I'm starting to seriously look into this guy Strauss.

Jeffrey Steinberg wrote this in March, 2003- I want to find the book he references, Shadia Drury's book... We were warned. Back in 1997, this book was a clear warning. She even named the DLC as Straussian back then, when most of us had never even heard of it. She had a previous book out in 1988 about the dangers of these Straussians...
She also has a website (there's a blurb on who she is at the end of this post- this is no nutcase) http://www.uregina.ca/arts/CRC/

====

author Shadia B. Drury, in her 1997 book, Leo Strauss and the American Right, named the following prominent Washington players as among Strauss' protégés: Paul Wolfowitz; Supreme Court Justic Clarence Thomas; Judge Robert Bork; neo-con propagandist and former Dan Quayle chief of staff, William Kristol; former Secretary of Education William Bennett; the National Review publisher William F. Buckley; former Reagan Administration official Alan Keyes; current White House bio-ethics advisor Francis Fukuyama; Attorney General John Ashcroft; and William Galston, former Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and co-author, with Elaine Kamark, of the Joe Lieberman-led Democratic Leadership Council's policy blueprint.

Earlier Strauss allies and protégés in launching the post-World War II neo-conservative movement were Irving Kristol, Norman Podhoretz, Samuel Huntington, Seymour Martin Lipset, Daniel Bell, Jeane Kirkpatrick, and James Q. Wilson.


Nobody Here But Us Fascists
A review of Leo Strauss' career reveals why the label "Straussian" carries some very filthy implications. Although nominally a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany (he actually left for a better position abroad, on the warm recommendation of Nazi jurist Carl Schmitt), Strauss was an unabashed proponent of the three most notorious shapers of the Nazi philosophy: Friedrich Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger, and Carl Schmitt. Recent biographies have revealed the depth of Heidegger's enthusiasm for Hitler and Nazism, while he served as the Chancellor of Freiburg University, throughout the epoch of National Socialism, and was the leader of a Nietzschean revival. Carl Schmitt, the leading Nazi philosopher of law, was personally responsible, in 1934, for arranging a Rockefeller Foundation scholarship for Strauss, which enabled him to leave Germany, to study in England and France, before coming to the United States to teach at the New School for Social Research, and then, the University of Chicago. Strauss, in his long academic career, never abandoned his fealty to Nietzsche, Heidegger, and Schmitt.

The hallmark of Strauss' approach to philosophy was his hatred of the modern world, his belief in a totalitarian system, run by "philosophers," who rejected all universal principles of natural law, but saw their mission as absolute rulers, who lied and deceived a foolish "populist" mass, and used both religion and politics as a means of disseminating myths that kept the general population in clueless servitude. For Strauss and all of his protégés (Strauss personally had 100 Ph.D. students, and the "Straussians" now dominate most university political science and philosophy departments), the greatest object of hatred was the United States itself, which they viewed as nothing better than a weak, pathetic replay of "liberal democratic" Weimar Germany.

Among the current lot of neo-cons, Michael Ledeen stands out as the one person who openly flaunts his "universal fascism." For Wolfowitz, Kristol, and the rest, their association with Strauss could be a large contributing factor in their looming downfall—and none too soon.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3011profile_strauss.html

==

Saving America
Leo Strauss and the neoconservatives
By Shadia B. Drury

Shadia Drury gets to the bottom of neoconservatism.

The trouble with the Straussians is that they are compulsive liars. But it is not altogether their fault. Strauss was very pre-occupied with secrecy because he was convinced that the truth is too harsh for any society to bear; and that the truth-bearers are likely to be persecuted by society - specially a liberal society - because liberal democracy is about as far as one can get from the truth as Strauss understood it.

Strauss's disciples have inherited a superiority complex as well as a persecution complex. They are convinced that they are the superior few who know the truth and are entitled to rule. But they are afraid to speak the truth openly, lest they are persecuted by the vulgar many who do not wish to be ruled by them. This explains why they are eager to misrepresent the nature of Strauss's thought. They are afraid to reveal that Strauss was a critic of liberalism and democracy, lest he be regarded as an enemy of America. So, they wrap him in the American flag and pretend that he is a champion of liberal democracy for political reasons - their own quest for power. The result is that they run roughshod over truth as well as democracy.


(snip)

The Straussians are the most powerful, the most organised, and the best-funded scholars in Canada and the United States. They are the unequalled masters of right-wing think tanks, foundations, and corporate funding. And now they have the ear of the powerful in the White House. Nothing could have pleased Strauss more; for he believed that intellectuals have an important role to play in politics. It was not prudent for them to rule directly because the masses are inclined to distrust them; but they should certainly not pass up the opportunity to whisper in the ears of the powerful. So, what are they whispering? What did Strauss teach them? What is the impact of the Straussian philosophy on the powerful neoconservatives? And what is neoconservatism anyway?

(snip)

In his book On Tyranny, Strauss referred to the right of the superior to rule as "the tyrannical teaching" of the ancients which must be kept secret. But what is the reason for secrecy? Strauss tells us that the tyrannical teaching must be kept secret for two reasons - to spare the people's feelings and to protect the elite from possible reprisals. After all, the people are not likely to be favourably disposed to the fact that they are intended for subordination.

But why should anyone object to the idea that in theory the good and wise should rule? The real answer lies in the nature of the rule of the wise as understood by Strauss.

It meant tyranny is the literal sense, which is to say, rule in the absence of law, or rule by those who were above the law. Of course, Strauss believed that the wise would not abuse their power. On the contrary, they would give the people just what was commensurate with their needs and capacities. But what exactly is that? Certainly, giving them freedom, happiness, and prosperity is not the point. In Strauss's estimation, that would turn them into animals. The goal of the wise is to ennoble the vulgar. But what could possibly ennoble the vulgar? Only weeping, worshipping, and sacrificing could ennoble the masses. Religion and war - perpetual war - would lift the masses from the animality of bourgeois consumption and the pre-occupation with "creature comforts." Instead of personal happiness, they would live their lives in perpetual sacrifice to God and the nation.

(snip)

Allan Bloom, author of The Closing of the American Mind, Strauss's best known student, was a professor at the University of Toronto. His best selling book demonised the sixties - the age of civil rights for black Americans, and greater freedom and equality for women. Irving Kristol also demonised the sixties. And Francis Fukuyama, student of Allan Bloom, and vanguard of the neoconservative intellectuals, refers to the sixties as "The Great Disruption," the title of his recent book. Supposedly, all these Strauss-inspired writers believe that the new found freedoms of the sixties are the root of all evil, because freedom invites licentiousness, and licentiousness is a harbinger of social decay - divorce, delinquency, crime, and creature comforts. And there is a sense in which they are right - freedom is a treasure that is quickly lost if it is not wisely used. The trouble is that neoconservatives have zero tolerance for human vices or follies, and as a result, they are unwilling to give liberty a chance.

(snip)

Shadia Drury is among the world's foremost scholars on the history, philosophy and politics of neoconservatism. She is the author of the acclaimed books Leo Strauss and the American Right (1998) and The Political Ideas of Leo Strauss (1988). Her forthcoming book is Terror and Civilization. Professor Drury holds the Canada Research Chair in Social Justice at the University of Regina, in Saskatchewan, Canada. For more information on her books and her work in general, see her website

http://evatt.org.au/publications/papers/112.html

[Piperay]

51. VERY interesting

THANKS. :thumbsup:

[psychopomp]

54. Excellent find

Thanks!

We have been had, big time.

[lildreamer316]

55. KICK for early morning crowd--

this is extremly important to read.

[Tinoire]

62. Welcome to DU Lildreamer316

:toast:

You're coming at a good time :)

[lildreamer316]

97. Thanks for the welcome..

I lurked for about a month; now I'm trying to catch up posting!;)

[nuxvomica]

59. Thanks, Tinoire

I didn't realize how much I myself had bought into some of this nonsense about sleeper cells and an international terrorist organization till I saw the documentary. I'm definitely on the anti-Neocon side but even I was duped. I will do my best to spread the word.

[Tinoire]

63. Wow.

Thank you! You have no idea how good it is to read your post. They duped a LOT of people and I am thrilled to read your admission because that means they're reaching more than the choir. THANK YOU!

[blondeatlast]

67. Read this at work, couldn't post then.

Needs a :kick:

I can't wait to see it.

I will pass it around and around.

[Tinoire]

70. Let us know what you think!

Peace

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. Wowww!

I just watched Parts 1 and 3 (and am taking a break before watching Part 2). There's lots of stuff in here that I either didn't know or had forgotten. Just at random:

1. The Islamic fundamentalist movement was started by an Egyptian who came to Colorado to study in 1949 and decided that America had been "corrupted by freedom and individualism."

2. Leo Strauss, intellectual godfather to the neocons, believed much the same thing and taught that America would fall to pieces unless it had a grand purpose. He also taught that the leaders did not have to believe in the "purpose" that they set before the people.

3. During the 1960s, the neocons decided that government social programs had caused society to spin out of control.

4. One of the neocons (Bill Kristol?) interviewed alluded to Stalin's cynical question, "How many divisions does the Pope have?" in the course of saying in effect, "The conservative movement had thinkers, but it didn't have any divisions until it mobilized the fundamentalists."

5. The neocons tried to get the CIA to prepare a report saying that the Soviets were behind all the terrorist and revolutionary movements of the 1970s. The CIA refused, saying that the scattered stories of Soviet involvement had actually been planted by them!

6. While there were individual acts of terror, there never was an organized movement called Al Qaeda "with sleeper cells in 60 countries," nor were any of the charges against U.S. residents of "terrorism" ever proved. (There is so much dirt in connection with this part of it--laid out in Hour 3--that I won't go into details.)

7. The much-vaunted "complex of caves and tunnels," as described by a U.S. informant, that Osama bin Laden was supposed to have in Tora Bora was never found.

8. The threats of "dirty bombs" being set off by Al Qaeda were bogus. Both the U.S. and Iraq had independently tried to develop them and had decided that they weren't effective.

That's just in two of the three hours. I heartily recommend these videos to all broadband users.

[Tinoire]

78. Jeez. Thank you. I still haven't watched most of it because of the

Tsunami.

I am going to watch the whole thing now. Your synopsis is scarier than I had thought from what I read and watched.

I can not believe the BBC aired all of that. :wow:

Thank you Englishmen and women. Thank you!

[rhite5]

74. Thanks, Tinoire, for the valuable links and conversation here.

I am eager to watch the BBC videos.

I am also especially thankful for the conversation here about the neo-con roots and connections in both major political parties. Some of this I knew before, some I had forgotten, some I had even chosen to dismiss in this past year of frustration where such conversations were difficult to find in the ABB culture.

I am back on board now!

[Tinoire]

80. Welcome back on board Rhite5!

Please share what you think of these videos. I am going to watch them all now.

Peace to you

[Blue-Jay]

84. Well done, Tinoire.

You're one of the best of us at DU. Don't leave anymore.

[Artemis Bunyon]

86. KICK

kick?

[Tinoire]

104. Thank you Blue-Jay! I don't deserve that

when I think of people like Eloriel and HeddaFoil who opened my eyes to this years ago (and who I really wish would post as often as they used to!) but thank you so much.

I promise you...

Dolly will never go away again ;)

[Tinoire]

106. Too late to edit but Stephanie too - PNAC links Archive

New to DU? Here's your =======> Intro to PNAC

PNAC Links Archive (Redux)

This is great for any lurkers who have questions about the neocons who were exposed.

Thanks Steph for all that work!!

[Dem2theMax]

87. Kicking for everyone and for me to come back and read more.

:kick:

[morgan2]

88. a few comments after watching the first 2 parts

The first two parts I thought were very informative about the history of the islamist movement. They also did a good job, especially in the first part, of linking the neocons to Strauss and his whacky philosophies. Where these series seems to fail, is that they buy into the neocon myths. They do a wonderful job of explaning how Strauss says that the ruler should use myths of religion and national character to control the masses, but then they can't seem to apply that idea to reality.
Maybe it gets to this in part three, but through the first two parts he seems to say that the neocons really believe the myth that they are the good guys fighting for democracy around the world. Why he can't draw what is the logical conclusion, that these people are just using this myth as a means for control is beyond me. The neocons do not believe their own mythology, they use it to make money and extend their control over the world.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

90. I don't know

It felt to me as if the neocons interviewed were "speaking between the lines" about their cynical use of "pro-democracy" ideology and religion.

But that may be because those lizards have popping up in the media and in politically-oriented magazines for nearly thirty years, so I already see them as lying cynics.

[Jackpine Radical]

95. Well, that's the whole Straussian thing--

It's right out of Plato's Republic. The few, the chosen (in this case the Neocons), in their intellecual and moral superiority know better than the masses what needs to be done. The masses are too stupid to see the need for empire & for pre-emptive warfare, mostly because empire doesn't benefit the masses. But the vast unwashed really don't count, except as cannon fodder, and as an inchoate herd that needs to be kept in line with phony talk of democracy, activation of their irrational fears, and whatever else it takes to ensure they will continue to do the bidding of their betters. Thus a Wolfowitz can look you straight in the eye, lie to you, plot your destruction, and do it all in the certain knowledge that he's actually working for the Greater Good.

[rman]

115. it's a distorted interpretation of Plato's work

Like Plato, Strauss taught that within societies, "some are fit to
lead, and others to be led", according to Drury. But, unlike Plato,
who believed that leaders had to be people with such high moral
standards that they could resist the temptations of power, Strauss
thought that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there
is no morality and that there is only one natural right, the right of
the superior to rule over the inferior".

[Tinoire]

105. Thanks!

They do a wonderful job of explaning how Strauss says that the ruler should use myths of religion and national character to control the masses, but then they can't seem to apply that idea to reality.

I still haven't watched it because I was interrupted by work last night but in about 1 hour when I do, I'll bear your points in mind.

Do you think though that audiences will automatically understand that after seeing what is going on in America? I mean that reality ia everywhere we turn. Look at the rise of the Christian Right which is being very manipulated and successfully controlled for a very evil goal. Look at how nationalism was "revived" after 9-11 and used to justify every single war that the Christian Right is also being manipulated into supporting. The reasons given to the nationalists and the fundamentalists are different- but the goal is the same and blindly they both support what we are doing in Iraq, what is going on in Palestine, what we did to the Afghans and what we are planning to do to the Persians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc... Nothing but the most enthusiastic support coming from those two groups for the political/corporate of globalization. I think most people would get it at least I hope so!

And for your other point:

Why he can't draw what is the logical conclusion, that these people are just using this myth as a means for control is beyond me. The neocons do not believe their own mythology, they use it to make money and extend their control over the world.

I wonder about this too. One one hand I believe, like you, that they are exploiting it for those reasons but ever since I started researching/reading Leo Strauss, I've begun getting a very uneasy feeling that there is an esoteric aspect to this that we're missing.

Interesting comment and I'll look for that... Still a very positive comment! Thanks for that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

109. I've mentioned this before, but...

having grown up as a preacher's kid and having some idea of how new churches are established, I find the mushroom-like proliferation of fundie megachurches to be unnerving. That's NOT normal. New churches start with a couple dozen people meeting in rented quarters until they can afford to construct or buy their own building.

The fundies say that they can build these megachurches out in the middle of nowhere because "God favors them," but God doesn't sign checks, so I have long suspected that they're getting under the table funds from some right wing foundation. It would fit in perfectly with the neocons' idea of promoting an ideology to mobilize the American people against "tyranny." Or, in other words, destroy freedom to save it.

I've said this many times: looking into the finances of these megachurches would be a great job for some enterprising investigative reporter.

[progressiveandproud]

113. Lydia...

Have you checked out Wayne Madsen? He's someone who calls himself an investigative reporter -- kind of like people who call themselves psychics, I don't know enough to give my opinion as to whether he's credible -- and I think he's been saying recently that the fundamentalist Christians' money is fraudulent and comes from Bush family connections in the '80's to the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos. Or something like that.

Oh, and Madsen's also infamous lately (among some of the DU crowd) for writing a series of articles claiming that Bush and Co. rigged the 2004 election in a conspiracy that has connections up the wazoo (including to those rich fundamentalist Christians, if I remember correctly). Or so he says.

You can find his articles at www.onlinejournal.com. I'm pretty sure that's right address.

[progressiveandproud]

112. You might find this interesting...

I'm starting to read a book, Spiritual Politics: Changing the World from the Inside Out (1994), by Corinne McLaughlin and Gordon Davidson, that reaffirms a gut instinct I've had about certain Republican leaders, a "very uneasy feeling," as you put it (and I hope you don't mind me using your words), "that there is an esoteric aspect to this that we're missing."

At the very least, I believe that Republican strategists like Karl Rove are in the game of using marketing techniques so insidious, that they act like subliminal messaging tapes. I'm thinking of G.W. Bush's relentless repetition of key phrases, like "liberating the Iraqi people," or "spreading freedom and democracy around the world," or "everyone loves freedom!" (As you know, this is just a small sampling!) I think it takes a lot of mental energy to resist these attractive messages, especially when the American people have heard Bush and Co. repeat them day in, day out for years. And then there's the Orwellian names that Republicans have taken to giving bills over the last four years: "Healthy Forests Initiative", "Clear Skies Act", "Patriot Act", "No Child Left Behind". You probably know a lot already about the linguist George Lakoff, but you might still want to read the following interview of him on the PBS show "NOW with Bill Moyers" because he does an excellent job of explaining why Republicans make liberal use of these deceptive "frames", as Lakoff puts it: http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2004/07/105043.shtml. (Sorry, horrible pun!)

Before I bring up Spiritual Politics, let me share some of my own direct encounters with the Republican tongue. My experiences have mostly been with the G.W. Bush dialect :); before 2000 I was still in middle-school and oblivious to most political goings-on. So I haven't seen a lot of politics; but from what I have seen, Bush uses the simplest language by far... also I tend to find him utterly unpersuasive. When he gives a speech, he's saying one disjointed catch-phrase after another, rarely bothering to explain any of them in detail. Even worse is his cocksure attitude, as if he's challenging anyone who doesn't see his line of argument as self-evident. But the point I've been moving toward is that, despite he I feel about Bush, I've caught my defenses slipping on several occassion when he was speaking: I would sort-of zone out and hear all his feel-good words like "democracy" and "freedom" wash over my mind and start to take root. And then, to my horror, I'd find myself starting to understand, maybe, why people support Bush: it's pretty hard not to get excited and emotional, maybe even patriotic, about these words. (I wonder if anyone else has had this experience while listening to Bush... or if it's just a common experience of people who are trying to resist being persuaded.) Of course all I had to do to end the delusion was remind myself that the carrier of these words was corrupt and horrible, and that was that.

Buy perhaps it's not crazy to wonder if Bush is drawing on esoteric forces. According to Spiritual Politics, many power-hungry leaders of the past, and especially Adolf Hitler, have drawn on dark esoteric forces. Personally, I think it's a definite possibility. Until I read The Prophet's Way: Touching the Power of Life (1997), by Thom Hartmann, I had never been able to make sense of the information that Hitler was fascinated by the occult. (There's a little part in Hartmann's book about Hitler's connection to the occult.) If one believes that more than human power was at work, that Hitler was drawing on a great evil force from the spirit world, then that might explain his charismatic speaking ability and the terrible magnitude of the Holocaust.

This all might sound cooky, but I don't think it would to those who believe in the existence of the spirit world. And I think it's been pretty well documented, although not necessarily in the mainstream, that the spirit world is real and can be contacted in certain ways.

Jonathan

[Tinoire]

119. Interesting that you too... I've thought so for a long time

but have only begun to seriously look into it. Thanks for the information and the book reference. I'm glad to know I'm not alone ;)

There is definitely something very strange going on with this. It would be interesting to know what Strauss was into, if anything.

I'll order Hartmann's "The Prophet's Way: Touching the Power of Life" & Spiritual Politics: Changing the World from the Inside Out as a New Year's present to myself.

The Hitler demonic connection would be interesting too. Sometimes though, you get to a point where you just don't want to know more because it gets so ugly.

[tngledwebb]

89. Will MSM show this soon on network TV?

Not in a million years, and this is program seems fairly tame and, at least ostensibly, 'balanced'.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Don't hold your breath

Even "far left" PBS wouldn't touch this one, except possibly on P.O.V. or Wide Angle, but I'd be surprised in any case.

[selmo7]

92. EXCELLENT ANALYSIS!

Thank you for sharing this video - I'm passing it on to many others.

Michael Meade (the storyteller) spoke of this perspective when I saw him perform in California last summer - he said we have to start dreaming our OWN bigger, better dreams instead of giving over to the dark, depraved, dangerous, destructive, deluded fantasies of those to whom we give away our power.

The poet William Blake said, "Imagination denied, war ruled the nations."

I suppose we have a crisis of Imagination, of Vision.

[never cry wolf]

93. Bookmarked and kicked

Thanks, no time now at work but will check out later.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

94. Any way to get this series on DVD????

Unfortunately, we don't receive BBC here and the transcript doesn't quite cut it.

JB

[BrklynLiberal]

99. Amazing..Please post when you have ready for downloading to DVD.

[BrklynLiberal]

100. Maybe DemocracyNow! would play it on FSTV or LINKTV... n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

101. I submitted someof this info as a program idea at the DemocracyNow website

Maybe they will follow thru...

[Tinoire]

107. Thanks! If you hear back from them, let us know!

It's such a shame we can't get the US media to show this on TV.

But then again, in Britain, they don't mail you anthrax because you're about to report something they don't like.

[bigmaan]

102. go to ejscoffeelounge.us

go to ejscoffeelounge.us

[Lydia Leftcoast]

108. Wow again

Just watched Part 2.

Everyone with broadband should watch these videos and recommend them to their friends.

[Swamp Rat]

114. Thom Hartmann rocks!

This is yet another example of your great posts Tinoire!

Here's what interests me latlely:

George Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant"

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/08/25_lakoff.shtml
http://www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/elephant
http://www.linguistics.berkeley.edu/lingdept/Current/people/facpages/lakoffg.html

[TyeDye75]

116. The best thing about this series......

is that it makes Richard Perle look like an ass and he doesnt even realise it.

Ive been kicking this around liberal and conservative sites for about two months now.... keep spreading the word, everyone has to see it.

[johnhorne]

117. kick

[Vidar]

118. Wow. Heady stuff. Thanks for posting.

[Octafish]

120. That BBC knows how to rock the powers-that-be.

Much good reading in the transcripts and in your post, Tinoire. The Cold War was kept alive to benefit the power structure more than defend the nations' peoples.

Why else would Reagan -- I mean Poppy -- and Casey throw out all the analysis and bring in their own Team B to slant things their way? Why else would Nixon and Kissinger and their turds fly to China to make friends with the Reds and piss off Moscow, who couldn't care less, as they were broke?

(BTW: It certainly explains why Nixon got "Watergated" by the CIA when he made like a statesman and tried to bring peace. It also explains why Pruneface got "Iran-Contra-d" after Reykjavik, where he promised to dump all the nukes if Gorby did the same.)

As you know I feel: It all goes back to Dallas. JFK was working with Kruschev to end the Cold War. And for that they both earned the enmity of their military and economic elites. Comrade got the ziggy. Kennedy was murdered. The Cubans and Commies got the blame -- but keep quiet! It could start World War III.

And for those new to the subject, PNAC corruption crosses all parties. Here's some background on how come the BFEE loves PNAC, which loves OIL, which loves MONEY, which loves POWER. They ALL hate AMERICA, especially the "We the People" part.

THE BUSH-SAUDI CONNECTION

EXCERPT...

In Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for bin Laden, two French intelligence analysts, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, claim that the Clinton and Bush administrations impeded investigations of bin Laden and his al Qaeda terrorist group in order to maintain good relations with Saudi Arabia and to maintain the stability of the oil market. "As the late John O’Neill told one of the authors of this book, ‘All of the answers, all of the clues allowing us to dismantle Osama bin Laden’s organization, can be found in Saudi Arabia.'" (8)

In articles and interviews, Brisard has expanded on this statement, pronouncing the official story about bin Laden’s exile from his native Saudi Arabia in 1994 and his frozen assets to be a canard. Not only did O’Neill and the F.B.I. have extensive information concerning the finances of bin Laden and al Qaeda, but the business connections between the bin Ladens, the Mahfouzes, the al Ahmoudis, the Saudi royal family, and the Bush family kept turning up in their investigations.

Mahfouz, who owns Nimir Petroleum, has conducted joint ventures with the al Amoudi family, which owns Delta Oil. Delta Oil and Unocal planned to build a pipeline through Afghanistan before the Taliban backed away. These Saudi companies are still partnered with bigger oil companies (such as Texaco and Unocal) in developing Central Asian oil projects.

SNIP...

In The Conspirators, Al Martin describes an instance of the latter. He says that the Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, of New York, Miami, and Bahrain, was Jeb Bush’s favorite artifice for oil and gas frauds: "The fraud was rather simple. Richard Secord arranged through then Vice President George Bush Sr.’s old friend, Ghaith Pharaon, the then retired head of Saudi intelligence, for Gulf Oil and Drilling to purchase from the Saudi government oil and gas leases in the Gulf which were effectively worthless."
The leases would be embellished to appear extremely valuable and then used as loan collateral. Great American Bank and Trust of West Palm Beach subsequently failed under the weight of unpaid Iran-Contra loans.

"Also, in the case of Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, there was some moderately large international lending to that company. As you would suspect, it was principally out of the old George Bush friendly banks--Credit Lyonnais and Banque Paribas, which, combined lent $60 million dollars to Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, which, of course, was defaulted on later." (9)

CONTINUED...

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/BushSaud.htm

These are traitors, these Bush.

[GreenPoet64]

121. Wow! I read the entire transcript. It's a must read ! n/t

[Al-CIAda]

122. kick

.

[Tinoire]

125. The BEST Download site for this (& other documentaries)!!

(With thanks to Metrix)

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/id3.html

THE PROPAGANDA MODEL OF NEWS
1997, (60 min)
An excellent discussion about how the news is sculpted to present a certain viewpoint of events around the world. Featuring Noam Chomsky, Edward Herman and Justin Lewis.

SOLDIER'S PAY
11-12-2004
A 35-minute documentary centering on the attempted heist of 300 million dollars featuring interviews with Iraqi refugees, human rights officials and veterans of the current war on Iraq.

"SPIN"
Brian Springer, Video, 1995, (60 min.)
Using the 1992 presidential election as his springboard, documentary filmmaker Brian Springer captures the behind-the-scenes maneuverings of politicians and newscasters in the early 1990s. Pat Robertson banters about "homos," Al Gore learns how to avoid abortion questions, George Bush talks to Larry King about halcyon -- all presuming they're off camera. Composed of 100% unauthorized satellite footage, Spin is a surreal expose of media-constructed reality.

CONTRA COCAINE
1997 (10 minutes)
Watch NBC news report about drugs and the CIA - features Ricky Ross, Cele Castillo, John Kerry, and Gary Webb. From AmericanDrugWar.com

VIDEO THE VOTE
11-02-2004 (3:30 minutes)
Dave Pentecost is one of a number of volunteer filmmakers who worked with Michael Moore to document election day conditions at polling sites throughout Ohio. This film shows what racism and voter intimidation looks like.

OUTFOXED: RUPERT MURDOCH'S WAR ON JOURNALISM
September 22, 2004, (21:29 min)
In the US, the presidential election campaign is now entering the home straight. And there’s one man who may well determine the result - Rupert Murdoch, who owns what has become one of the most influential news outlets in the country. Fox News is now the highest rating cable news network in the States. But it’s winning enemies as well, with critics claiming it’s taking journalism to new lows with its outrageous bias in favour of the Republican Party.

VOTERGATE
2004, (30 minutes)
Votergate is the investigative documentary film uncovering the truth about new computer voting systems, which allow a few powerful corporations to record our votes in secret.

THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES:
BABY IT'S COLD OUTSIDE
BBC, 2004

Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?
In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares. The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.

BILL MOYER'S "THE SECRET GOVERNMENT"
It aired on PBS in 1987 and is as good as anything on the tape. Bill Moyers is one of the most recognizable and celebrated journalists whose approach to investigative journalism is highly respected. Known for his award winning PBS documentaries, in this segment he interviews several different people involved with the CIA and other government agencies who speak about various U.S. foreign policy covert and overt operations that took place during the Cold War era. His documentary gives quite an overview of what has actually happened in the last 50 years regarding the founding of the National Security Agency and the CIA. (22:04)

THE O'SEXXXY FACTOR
2004 (5 min)
Jim Gilliam put together this 5 minute video gem. Besides showing Bill O'Reilly's hypocrisy, it covers the past few years of O'reilly's discussions about sex on his show, painting a picture, giving insight into his obsession with certain sexual acts and how he thinks of women.


THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY OF DICK CHENEY
2004 (40 min)
Cheney's remarkable life story involves the relentless accumulation of power in every form and regardless of the outcome of this fall's election, he will continue to be one of the most powerful and well-connected men in the world. This documentary will show how he accomplished this, what it involved in terms of costs for others and what history's judgement could be.

THE PANAMA DECEPTION
Won the Academy Award for Best Documentary. Directed by Barbara Trent of the Empowerment Project, website. This film documents the untold story of the December 1989 U.S. invasion of Panama. The United States military deliberately attacked and destroyed primarily residential neighborhoods, killing an estimated 3 to 4 thousand people in the process. This segment exposes the role the U.S. government and mainstream media play in suppressing information about U.S. foreign policy. Includes never before seen footage of this invasion. Narrated by (Actress) Elizabeth Montgomery

BRAINWASHING 101
Video, 2004, (46:15 min)
Brainwashing 101 is a provocative short film showing how universities use tools such as "speech codes" to force political views upon students.

HIJACKING CATASTROPHE
Video, 2004
Examines how a radical fringe of the Republican Party used the trauma of the 9/11 terror attacks to advance a pre-existing agenda to radically transform American foreign policy while rolling back civil liberties and social programs at home.

TRADING FREEDOM: THE SECRET LIFE OF THE FTAA
Indymedia, October 2002 (56 min)
Offers an explanation of what the FTAA is, what it will mean, and how people across the Americas are resisting it.

Etc. etc


THE PAUL MORAN STORY
July 23, 2003, (20:17 min)
Paul Moran died after a suicide bombing in Iraq. He was a reporter for ABC, and one of the strongest voices along with Judith Miller of the New York Times, to claim Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. At his funeral it raised eyebrows when CIA, FBI, and other secret agents popped up to pay their respects. In this report, an investigation in how the secret service operates within the mainstream media.

BREAKING THE SILENCE
Breaking the Silence is set in Iraq, Afghanistan and Washington and traces the mendacious history of events leading to the 'war on terror' and last year's invasion of Iraq.

[nascarblue]

146. Nice link once again T...

Have you seen these??

How the Bush and right wing GOP's use the Evangelical angle to incite policy and fool many
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.wmv
The dark side of the politcal Rapture right and thier secret political aspirations...circa 1990(?)With all the Usual Suspects.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/liberty.wmv

More theocratic warnings

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

[Radio_free_america]

126. A must read for everyone.

It's now an evidence that Bush's administration use old Hitler's tricks of using a scapegoat.
While citizens fears muslims they act as an herd.

Thanx to BBC and you

[Tinoire]

128. That's the saddest. Daniel Pipes, board, US Institute of Peace

& also director of Campus Watch where students turn in their teachers for "u-balanced" views on the Middle East, is now calling for concentration camps. For Muslims of course.

This is a man that Bush bypassed Congress to appoint to that positition. I shudder for America when such swine is rewarded and such vileness is ignored. In 30 years we'll be wringing our hands saying "we didn't know".

[Radio_free_america]

130. Allready Guantanamo have some resemblance with a concentration camp

No layer, no clear charges, emprissonnement for being part of a religious group...

This gap in constitutional and international law is a very dangerous outpost for possible massive discrimination.
The second bad effect is that radical muslims use it to charge Democracies "Look they don't even respect their human right", making harder for moderates to achieve mutual respect.

I remember muslim friends just after 9/11 they said that the guy who do that can't be muslim, are not even human.
Now it's had change, they think that USA are an adversary of muslim world.

When Bush used word as "crusade against evil", muslims heared it as a global war declaration.
Imaging UK or France saying "We must colonize the bad" and sending troops in an African country (even a dictatorship)...

If hatred against USA imperialism was low in muslim world (execpt in few geographical point) before theses declarations and invasions, it is very strong now, and more worrying global.

At first as many Europeans, I was thinking that was a diplomatic misstake, a rude maner to explain wrap after a tragic event.
But now I'm near to think that conservatives wanted to feed adversaries, feed muslim hatred to gain "coup excuse", create a casus belli.

An other fact support this, many european secret agencies etablish that radical Imams and muslims terrorists have stronght tied with Saoudian princes (if no even highter) of wahabite tendancie, So why Saoudian kingdom is a allies of USA ? And Irak, a laic state shiite/sunite, was invaded ?
It's clear that Bush father opened a pandora box, and his successor let situation guetting more and more rotten.
Imagines Agerian troops (muslim) staying 13 years near Roma (Pope house), even peacefully, how would react Catholics states and population ?
Crash planes on Mecqua ?
And if after that Algerian president declare "jihad against the evil" how would react protestant and anglican ?

Bush clan wanted war, used religion to achieve they objective, awakened ennemy to be the "victims" and gain US citizens support, at least they act as if they wanted that.
They are or incompetant or machiavelous but in all possibility very dangerous.

[Tinoire]

132. Welcome to DU Radio_free_america !!!

Very, very dangerous indeed!

I'll answer you tomorrow but really wanted to welcome you since I overlooked that the first time!

You brought up some excellent points in your post.

:toast:

[Radio_free_america]

133. Thank you

Glad to speak with you soon :)

[NYC]

145. Welcome to DU, Radio_free_america.

:hi:

[tngledwebb]

135. Evil evil empire, with evil people in charge,

so evil that one may, in many cases, see it in their expressions and even their facial features.

[JawJaw]

127. Adam Curtis

Good interview with the film maker HERE


>
>
The first part of the current series featured not only pertinent clips from Gunsmoke, but also bravura material from Donald Rumsfeld's days as Defence Secretary in the Seventies, talking up the Soviet threat, just as he now talks up the unprecedented danger of bin Laden's terror networks. Curtis has a remarkable feel for the serendipity of such moments, and an obsessive skill in locating them. 'That kind of footage shows just how dull I can be,' he admits, a little glumly. 'The BBC has an archive of all these tapes where they have just dumped all the news items they have ever shown. One tape for every three months. So what you get is this odd collage, an accidental treasure trove. You sit in a darkened room, watch all these little news moments, and look for connections.'
>
>

I hope the guy gets another British Film & TV Academy award (he is a previous winner for his 2000 series "The Mayfair Set")and even more publicity, and hopefully a repeat showing closer to the UK election :evilgrin: . The central message of the film just gets more relevant as the neocon's quagmire gets deeper and deeper

[txaslftist]

129. So 9/11 was our Reichstag Fire?

When comes the night of the long knives?

When the two term limit is removed and the neocons consolidate power by completely destroying the organized opposition?

[Radio_free_america]

131. A "purge" is taking place in CIA, isn't it ?

And the use of word as "un-american" against democrats is a big transgression in a democratic state.
In UK or Germany or Spain using a equivalent insult against oposition would make a scandal.

[Oversea Visitor]

134. Same site under breaking news

US soldiers and Iraqi es police clash.

I am not a muslim but I live in a muslim country
Believe me this is bad news.

[Al-CIAda]

136. kick

[goforit]

137. Didn't GHW Bush apply to be a KGB agent ?....more & more evident now

Great information.

But I must say this has been predictable and blatantly obvious.

All we need is a video and audio of their malicious schemes.

[Just Me]

138. You are the master of reality and perspective, Tinoire!!!

I admire you,...so much.

Thank you.

I am so grateful for your passionate endeavor to spread knowledge and wisdom.

I really am.

[WillieWoohah]

141. I liked the interview with Bill Kristol (the neocon)

He said that in America, right-wing academics don't feel welcome in most academic institutions, so they tend to gravitate towards the private sector and set up their own independent RW think tanks (e.g. PNAC) and ideological sects (e.g. neocons).

This accounts for why university academics are predominantly left-wing, but all the key academic "movers and shakers" who influence public policy end up being right-wingers (e.g. Perle, Wolfowitz et al).

Fair point?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

142. That's what he SAYS, but I think the truth is that

right wing think tanks are financed by cranky billionaires and pay a lot better than the average college.

There were plenty of right-wingers at the last college where I taught, mostly in the business department, where they taught the students to be intellectually lazy and sloppy and to treat employees like cattle.

I know about their intellectual standards because I was on the college honors committee and had to evaluate the business students' abysmal senior papers, which the business professors approved, despite glaring factual errors, unbalanced literature reviews (in an academic paper, as opposed to a diatribe, you have to describe fairly and refute logically the ideas you don't agree with, not just ignore them), and terrible English usage.

I know about teaching the students to despise employees because one new instructor got into trouble for trying to teach the students otherwise.

[Just Me]

143. Knowledge IS POWER!!!! n/t

[Nadienne]

144. Thanks, Tinoire! (n/t)