I'm Proud Of DU's Reaction To Reggie White

[ruggerson]

A couple of folks might have been a bit overly descriptive in their righteous anger :) , but all in all, the feelings that his death aroused are positive, healthy signs that many here are not going to take this crap anymore: we are ready to actually start to fight tooth and nail against the lies of the "religious right."

The "Christian" rightwing's latest tactic is to try to immunize itself against its sorrowful history of vicious bigotry by claiming that anyone who objects to their bigotry is somehow disrespecting their religious beliefs.

Their audacious argument incredbly is: "If you object to our hate, you are being anti-Christian and preventing us from following our beliefs. Thus you are an anti-Christian bigot"

Amazingly, there are many DU'ers who seem to fall for this circular logic. Reggie White had way too many defenders on this forum.

Sorry, but this bogus argument is not going to stand. We're going to take it down and expose it as the raw bigotry it really is.

[KSAtheist]

1. Fight tooth and nail against what?

When we start attacking live opponents with the same fervor we attack the dead ones, then I'd take it as a healthy sign. But the guy's dead. He ain't fighting back.

Also, isn't it possible to praise the good a person's done while damning their faults? As I said in another post, this is not a world built on solid black and solid white.

I just don't see the righteousness in dismissing everything charitable a person has done just because he held an offensive viewpoint.

[ruggerson]

3. His ideas aren't dead

they're alive and well and used daily to harm innocent men, women and children.

[KSAtheist]

5. Did the ideas originate with Reggie White?

Reggie White was a symptom, not the disease.

[ruggerson]

9. Of course not

but his death provided the occasion to discuss those ideas and how they are being defended in today's political environment

[jonnyblitz]

2. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[manic expression]

4. The only problem

may arise when people rejoice at one's death. A death of someone who is wrong should not change anything about that person's actions. People who disagree with that person should voice their disagreements with the person's beliefs and actions to the fullest extent, but the fact that the individual is dead should not be made to be a factor in this (in my opinion).

[daveskilt]

13. watched 3 people die today - same for everyone

good bad or annoying they all end about the same way and everyone deserves a little decency when they go. ok not everyone but certainly if we are just talking about people who are wrong in terms of belief or legal actions (ted bundy, hitler etc need to die afraid and alone) - I would hold rush limbaughs fat little hand while he passed away and would even be nice to him.

[journalist3072]

6. Reggie White

OK can someone pls explain to me what the fuss over Reggie White is on this board?

I knew OF him, that he was a ball player and all, but I didn't know a lot ABOUT him, so I don't where he stood politically.

But I happened to be flicking channels the other night, and caught an old interview of him on Bill O'Reilly's show. And he seemed to be giving Bill O'Reilly a run for his money.

O'Reilly was basically trying to tell Reggie White that in America, everyone has a chance to make it; no excuses. And Reggie White basically told Bill O'Reilly that was not true, that everyone has not been given a fair chance to make it in this country

Although I came in late on the interview, he seemed to be supported programs like affirmative action.

So someone pls enlighten me on all the fuss over him.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Short version

He was a football player. Dies the day after Christmas. Was 43 years old. Was a fundie preacher. Was very anti-gay and had no problem making it known. Made very racist comments about a VARIETY of groups. Is in the process of being made a god here by some, who feel is homophobic remarks were "misspeaks" but because he was a preacher/Christian should get a free pass. That about sums it up!

[LittleClarkie]

10. Fairly factual post, but I wouldn't have called him a fundy

Just good old fashioned gospel preacher.

I'd have to go back and check out that speech he made that got everyone riled way back when.

He was just a man. He had positive bits and not so positive bits.

[journalist3072]

12. R.W.

Well, like I said, I never followed him closely, so I didn't know very much about him. But from what I saw of him on Bill O'Reilly, I liked him, because he seemed to be making the case FOR the least among us. He was giving O'Reilly a reality check on the fact that not everyone is given a fair chance to make it, and I agreed with him on that.

Why does everyone have a beef with him for speaking out against homosexual or lesbian lifestyles? The word of God teaches us that those lifestyles are wrong, so I would expect a Minister who has truly been called by God to speak out against those lifestlyes.

I think people on here need to calm down and realize that not everyone who speaks out against a homosexual or lesbian lifestyle is a hateful person, and many times they are not speaking out against the PERSON, they are speaking out against that person's lifestyle.

There is a difference.

[ruggerson]

15. Explain to us just what this "lifestyle" is you refer to

Is it the monogamous male partners of twenty-five years who have successfully raised two Ivy League educated children and have participated fully and actively and positively in their communities?

Is it the lesbian field hand in Cambodia?

Is it most of the Pope's inner circle?

Is it the new head of the Republican National Committee?

Who and what is this "lifestyle" to which you refer?

[Behind the Aegis]

16. the difference

You can have any opinion you desire. But, when you try to prevent me from having EQUAL rights, then you are a bigot and I don't care what you use to justify your discrimination. And people do not need to "calm down" when people speak out against gays and compare us to murders, pedophiles, and cheats! We need to point out their bigotry and hate! And that "lifestyle" is a part of the person. Would you find it palatable if someone said Christians were evil and looking to destroy all that is true and good? Would you "calm down" and realize that the person making the statement was only speaking out against the person's "lifestyle" and not the person?

[journalist3072]

19. Clarificationwho

Believe me, I don't like the hate that comes out of the mouths of people on the right. And I've often said that there is not much difference between a philandering, womanizing heterosexual, and a gay or lesbian person. Sin is sin.

The point I was trying to make is that not everyone who speaks out against homosexuality is an evil, mean-spirited person. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I don't believe that homosexuals should be discriminated against in the workplace, for example.

Does that make me an evil person?

That's the point I was trying to make.

[journalist3072]

22. Sorry. The subject line should have read "Clarification"

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Not evil

But if you allow YOUR religion to interfere with MY EQUAL rights, then you are a bigot. Not all bigots are evil, hateful people. You can be against anything you like. But, if you stand by and allow others to peddle hate, that is the same as doing it yourself.

You don't 'agree' with homosexuality. That is OK by me. You oppose discrimination against gays. Again, OK by me. I don't agree that Jesus is the Savior. That is my right, but I don't force you to deny your "lifestyle" to suit mine!

Cheers.

[Dhalgren]

17. There is also a difference between "lifestyle" and life.

Reggie White and those of his ilk spoke out against the life of homosexuals, not their "styles" of life. If he had preached against promiscuity, across the board, then that might have been defended, but he didn't. By referring to a person's sexual makeup as a "lifestyle" you are belittling that person's humanity. A person's sexual identity is not a "lifestyle", it is life - I don't care whose mythology considers it otherwise.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. Great post!

I thought my head was going to blow off my neck at some of the defense I saw for that man! I don't revel in the death of anyone, but if someone else feels that will somehow complete them...well, that is up to them. I draw the line at interfering with the family's grief (i.e. protesting a funeral, etc). But stating your anger on a internet board, is more venting than anything. I doubt any DUer is going to make the trip to piss on his grave. Did he do some good? I am sure he did. Was he loved? Obviously. But that doesn't mean I, especially as a gay man, have to mourn his passing.

I think what made the maddest was some posters who were claiming Christian bashing was going on. I asked a few of them to show me where this was happening and NOT ONE replied to me! If I disagree with you it doesn't make me anti-Christian! Just like it doesn't make you a homophobic bigot if you disagree with me being gay. The difference lies in how you treat the person. If you say: I just don't understand gays or homosexuality. That is OK. If you say: I disagree with gays because the Bible says so. That is even OK. HOWEVER, if you state either of those two and then actively try to prevent me from gaining EQUAL rights..you are a FUCKING BIGOT! And, if I call you a bigot, I am not a bigot for calling you on it, nor does it make me anti-Christian!

I hope these poor DU people who have experienced all this "anti-Christian hate" at DU, never have to feel even an iota of the pain I have had to endure as a gay person! If you think you are being attacked report it or challenge the person on it! Don't wail and gnash your teeth about how mistreated you are as a Christian at DU! This of course, doesn't apply to ALL Christians here. IT is sad I have to add that disclaimer, but if I don't then I will be labeled anti-Christian! What have we become?!!?

[daveskilt]

11. I just object to athletes invoking god all the time

I mean can't they say we won because we played better, practiced more, we're smarter or whatever?

just once I'd like to see someone on the losing team invoke god -

'we were doing fine and might have won until that bastard jesus came in and intercepted the ball for them.'

[deminflorida]

14. Bashing a Dead-Guy, is just path you need to follow in order to

further your Gay, Same-Sex-Marriage agenda. I'm sure that will play well among the majority of the American public, and without a majority you'll never accomplish anything in a Free-and-Democratic Society.

Extra-Extra Vindictive Gays Bash Deceased American Football Idol!!!

News at Eleven.

I'm sure FOX is prepping it right now for their lead story tomorrow.

:eyes:

P.S. - Wake up...this one single social issue is something the Repugs have latched onto in order turn the entire moderate portion of the population against progressives in this country.

"Anti-marriage bills have been introduced in 37 states. One is pending in New Jersey. 16 states enacted the bills into law: AK, AZ, DE, GA, ID, IL, KS, MI, MO, NC, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, UT. 20 states rejected, vetoed or failed to advance the bills: AL, CA, CO, FL, HI, IA, KY, LA, ME, MD, MN, MS, NM, NY, RI, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY. The statewide struggles will continue when legislatures reconvene, and the radical right has promised to reintroduce anti-same-sex marriage bills in all states that have not already enacted them."

http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/valentine97/q&a.html

This is AFTER Bill Clinton signed into law the Defense of Marriage Act of 1996. So you see none of this needs to be consistently brought up for vote in individual state elections. The Repugs simply want to keep it on the radar because it's an issue that turns people away from the Democratic Party.

"The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) does two things. First, it provides that no State shall be required to give effect to a law of any other State with respect to a same-sex "marriage." Second, it defines the words "marriage" and "spouse" for purposes of Federal law."

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/leg23.htm

Yeah, I'm really proud that we all continue to fall into this trap they have set for us as well.

:cry:

[sonicx]

18. That's right. Message Board conversations make or break the Democratic

Party. oy vey. way to exaggerate.

[Forkboy]

25. Too many worry about appearances instead of what's right

this attitude seems to be infesting the Democratic Party at a rapid clip.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Do you really believe what you wrote?

How does comments on this board reflect the national gay movement? Has some gay organization said they plan to parade around the graveside of RW?

Maybe the news-line should read: Extra! Extra! Apologetic Christians Pardon Deceased American Football Idol Hate-Filled Comments! Ask That He Be Sainted! :eyes:

Get real! The bigots you passed those odious laws justify their bigotry through religion. No matter what your reason, if you deny others EQUAL rights, you are a bigot! It doesn't matter what gays do, there will always be those religious bigots. The ONLY thing we could do that would make them happy is to deny who we are and live a lie (well, there are some that would have us executed).

Seems you have no love loss for gays and that is your prerogative, but if you stand in my way to gaining my EQUAL rights, then we will have a problem. Believe what you want, but do not inflict it on me!

[Dhalgren]

21. Fighting for the civil rights of African Americans wasn't very

popular in many areas of the country (maybe still isn't), but it was the right thing to do. The Democrats lost all of the south because of it, but it was still the right thing to do. Sometimes a person of character has to stand for something, even if it isn't popular. Equal rights for homosexuals is one of those things. If you don't agree - then we simply have differing values, and I'll leave it at that...

[Raiden]

24. As I said in another Reggie White thread...

HATE LEADS TO THE DARK SIDE


I don't care who it was who died, everyone should show a little respect. When you say something horrible about someone who just died, you only end up saying something horrible about yourself.

[Moderator]

26. Locking...

Please continue the discussion in one of the already established Reggie White threads.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2872552
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2874894

Thank you
-DU Moderator.