Guys, I need some help and some information, very important!

[Solon]

OK, last night I got a call from my best friend, she told me her brother just graduated from college, great isn't it? Well not so great, he got there by joining the National Guard, and now he is shipping out for training as infantry. He is not happy about that and is trying to appeal it, I think he is trying to be in a supporting role, such as a technician or something, I'm not sure, it was a short and painful talk. He never thought he would be in a war, and he isn't a bushbot, that much is for sure, he has a wife and a newborn child and is scared out of his mind. What I need to know is what are the chances that the appeal will be successful? Also assuming that it fails, how hard is it for him to get CO status. I need some links here, she's coming tonight and I would like some answers to this. Also to any Canadians out there, this is the last resort, how hard would it be for a college graduate who may end up in Iraq to flee to Canada with his family?

[BR_Parkway]

1. What I have kept telling my 22 yo son - keep kissing every guy

you meet till they send you home...if you close your eyes and pretend, you won't even notice a difference, esp since the military regs prohibit beards.

[ET Awful]

2. I wouldn't think the odds of a successful appeal were very good

Once you sign on the dotted line, you belong to them, the choice of what kind of training and assignment to give is there's unless he got it in writing prior to signing the enlistmen papers, even then, orders can be changed.

[Sannum]

3. My advice...

Tell him to "Come out of the Closet". Hit on every guy he sees. They won't take him.

[Solon]

4. That would be hard to explain since he's newly married with a kidn/t

[Sannum]

5. Well....

Elton John was married once...I'm just sayin'...

[karlrschneider]

6. Well, I know at least 3 gay guys with wives & kids...one is my brother-in-

law.

[Solon]

7. I know but that may not work too much either...

especially for foot soldiers, I need some real options here, not ones that are at best jokes.

[Lars39]

8. Here's some links...

http://www.calltoconscience.net/

http://www.objector.org/

http://www.afsc.org/

http://www.quaker.org/visalia/CO/

http://www.nisbco.org/

[Solon]

9. Thank you, I'm bookmarking them to look at later n/t

[Solon]

10. Kick to keep on front page n/t

[Tinoire]

11. Solon good luck but

I have to agree with the poster who pointed out that once you sign on the dotted line, you belong to them. It's like all those soldiers now crying about Stop Loss and being held in over their term- what they're not admitting/realizing is that they agreed to that condition because it's definitely in the fine print.

Take it from an ex-military person, he can try the crowded route of conscientious objection (and frankly, the military does not care- have him watch Ghandi- nothing has changed, they can't afford for it to change) or pack up and leave this country. Good luck to you on Canada and on keeping him safe.

Important note: there is no such thing as a "supporting role" in a war zone- they're all supporting each other and all the military looks at is placing "warm bodies" where they need them. This is how we ended up with cooks running Abu Ghraib.

Jeez Solon, good luck!

[Solly Mack]

12. The Society of Friends is his best bet

You can apply for CO status even after signing on the dotted line...but the chances are slim of it being approved.

Your friend needs to contact the Quakers, asap. They are well versed in how to work the system to help soldiers.

I'll be honest though....in today's climate, I don't think the odds are good.

[Solon]

14. We're going to try...

every legal route, the Quakers sound like the best bet, I hope it can be successful, but right now I'm hinging the last resort on a decision by Canada's Immigration and Refugee board on the deserters already applying for refugee status, but won't know about that till Jan 24 at the earliest. He isn't expected to do anything till March, so we have some time, just want to get the ball rolling well before then.

[Tinoire]

13. Try these people first

On edit, Lars39 brought this up but this is the direct link. Didn't mean to step on your toes Lars.

This is recommended by my parent group Vets for Peace and Military Families Speak Out They are VERY experienced in this sort of thing.



We are a network of nonprofit, nongovernmental organizations who provide information to servicemembers about military discharges, grievance and complaint procedures, and other civil rights.

Whether you are in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, we can help with military discharges, such as:

Delayed Entry Program
Hardship
Conscientious Objection
Don't Ask, Don't Tell and
Homosexual Conduct
Entry Level Separation
Medical
Psychological
We can help if you are AWOL or UA.

We can help if you are experiencing hazing, harassment or discrimination, or if you have been a victim of sexual assault.

Learn how to help members of the military with discharges using
Helping Out: A Guide to Military Discharges and GI Rights.

Advice for CO's in the Armed Forces

http://girights.objector.org/

[Solon]

15. Thank you!

[Tinoire]

23. Good luck and if you need urgent help

and don't get through. PM me, I'll personally contact the founder of Military Families Speaks Out. I know most of these guys personally and wish I hadn't been so remiss at maintaining current contact but if you need, I will get through to one of them for you.

[Solon]

25. Thank you, I will have to talk to him and his sister first...

I definately don't want to do this behind their backs, I'm just asking for info to present to them tonight when his sister shows up.

[Lars39]

16. No problem...excellent sites.

I'm glad you posted these; mine were lost in my bookmarks. :)

[Tinoire]

21. I figured you wouldn't mind

Just wanted to point it out though ;) And really honestly, I didn't notice til afterwards and had to go do a quick edit!

Thanks

[Mabeline]

17. Um...didn't he kinda know this could happen when he signed up

for the college program?

[Solon]

18. He signed the line before Bush was in office...

It was always a possibility, but who ever thought an illegal war was in the works at that time?

[Mabeline]

27. No one would have dreamed something like 9/11

would happen either. Gosh, back then the most the guard did was helping after natural disasters.

[satori]

19. I joined the Navy then got out CO status

After I got out of college I joined the Navy but before I went to basic training I got CO status so I never went to basic training. I spoke to an expert concerning the GI Joe issues thru a local peace and justice group. All cities usually have such a group. Or the Quakers might know. If you do a google search you should find some CO websites.

The CO expert was a GI Joe and he gave others advice on getting CO status. He said it would be easy for me to get out because I was never actually in the service. He told me it is much more difficult for those that are already in basic training to get out of the service.

It seems to be though I am no lawyer that because she is in the National Guard and already in the service and went thru basic training that it would be difficult to get out on CO status.

[Solon]

20. Actually a he...

its her brother that is in the service, also I don't know the details, but it sounds like it was a deferment of sorts, I don't think he went to basic training yet, she said that in March he is going in for infantry training, that he signed up for the GI Bill and went straight to college, now the 4 years of that is up and he now owes time to the NG. I don't know if that is correct though, it was a short conversation.

[satori]

22. I guess it is possible then

I would guess it is possible then. I never went to basic training though I signed the papers and made the oath so I was officially in the Navy, then before my date for going to basic training I contacted a CO counselor and took his advice on getting out. He should contact some of the CO organizations cited on this thread or a local Quaker group or Social justice group in his city for advice.

For me it was a rather easy process, they did not give me a hard time at all.

[InvisibleBallots]

24. I know 3 50-year-olds that have been "recalled"

after being out of the military for 10-20 years, these guys have now been drafted and sent to the front lines. I had read about this but had no idea it was so common. Good luck to your friend.

[Solon]

26. Kicking one last time n/t

[lumpy]

28. Sad but inevitable

I worked for a dentist that was in the Navy WW2 for 4 years. Was a Navy reservist, went to university, opened an office, had a going business, got married, had a child and was called back into the Korean War.

[cleofus1]

29. do not join the service

if you do not want to kill people...that is the whole fucking point...the military is not a get rich quick scheme...no matter what the recruiter tells you it is not the easiest way to get your degree...down and dirty the military's primary function is to kill people...if you don't want to participate..do not join...