As a American I am APPALLED AND ASHAMED

[SF Bay Area Dem]

A bureaucrat from the UN makes an offhand comment that the good ole moralistic United States of America is (OMG!) STINGY!

Holy dog shit!

Right on cue the conservatives of this country never missing an opening to bash anyone or anything that even remotely is considered an "enemy" immediately began piling on in self righteous indignation.

HOW *UCKING DARE ANYONE SAY THAT ABOUT US the right wing blowhards on talk radio screamed! This comment was manna from heaven to hate radio as now that Christmas is over their "issue" that the "secularists" were somehow destroying Christmas has gone away. Hey when all else fails bash the UN and now the EU!

*** Never mind that 100,000+ AT LEAST are probably dead.

*** Never mind that millions more are at serious risk for disease such as cholera and dysentery.

*** Never mind that 10's of thousands of kids are now orphans.

*** Never mind that millions more are homeless with their livelihoods completely destroyed.

No all conservatives care about is some off hand comment from a bureaucrat --- after all we can't have someone starting the avalanche of deserved criticism that could actually damage our fearless leader right?

Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Helllllllloooooooo????? Where is your moral majority now? If these two spent even a quarter of the energy spent in getting Bush elected and bashing secularists over Christmas could help thousands of people who really need it. Shame on them.

Where was our President immediately after it became obvious the magnitude of this disaster?

Where was his flag?

No our leader could not be expected to step up to the plate and behave like a world leader right? After all he was to busy enjoying his holiday at his ranch in Texas to be bothered with this nonsense. His advisor's probably quickly told him that the United States had no major investments in the area and business here in the states would not be affected. It is someones else's problem he was probably told.

Now the United States, the most powerful nation (for now until China overtakes us), the richest, the most influential, and the trend setters of the world could only cough up a *ucking measly 35 million?

Is this leadership?

After severe criticism our president decides to come out of his spider hole and make a half assed promise to "provide much more" in the near future --- Which by the way his word has about as much credibility as a five pound bag of manure with all of his "promises" in the past that sound good at first but never seem to materialize in the end. As an after-thought the US is providing cargo planes and ships (6-12 at last count) to airlift assistance to such a vast disaster area... WOW!

Yet again our reputation as a country takes a major hit --- both internally and also in the worldwide community with the same conservative blowhards making excuses for our piss poor leadership.

Frankly, as a American I am disappointed and ashamed with our country and its leadership. We have hit bottom with this and I pray to Jesus (whom I truly believe in) that our country can earn back all of the lost moral credibility and respect we once held. The damage has been done with our tepid response no matter how much we "give" as a country from here on out. It looks like we are only bowing to criticism.

Shame on us.

[tx_dem41]

1. Actually, you got sucked in by the Washington (Moonie) Times...

if you google some blogs, you will find that the UN representative made no such comment about the US or any specific countries.

On edit: As for the rest of your point...I agree with the sentiment.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

2. You mean the alleged UN statement was BS?

This right wing has some balls... they will use anything, no matter how tragic for cheap political expediency.

Man I thought I had seen it all.

[Catchawave]

3. Yep, Stingy was BS...

...the UN official who's comment they spinned, never said Stingy.

[Benhurst]

6. Be that as it may, as a American I am APPALLED AND

ASHAMED of George W. Bush and his fascist government.

[depakid]

54. That one kind of backfired, though

Aside from being profoundly ignorant, the far right is irony impaired.

As a result of their efforts to stir up nationalistic furor, the US doubles its aid package and a huge number of Americans are actually looking at the facts and seeing for themselves that :gasp: compared to the rest of the world, we really are stingy!

Now that's the kind of instant karma I like to ssee!

[Baja Margie]

4. You know

I heard a few days back that the US was dubbed as "stingy". I don't know who said it, but someone did, and it's true for cryin out loud. And, it was Big Dawg who came out first and said someone better start doing something about relief for these poor people while Bush had his thumb up his ass.

I agree with you, shit, Bush makes us all look like a bunch of tight assed Republicans.

[autorank]

7. Uh, he was in Crawford "thinking." Isn't that amazing!

The first time he does some serious thinking about his second administration is after he's elected. We were right all along, he has no plan. Imagine the massive inconvenience of having our pReisdent interrupted in his thinking by a disaster. Mein Got!

[0007]

25. junior was in deep deep thought while hard at work....

later that day junior had a dynamic debate with himself and the out come was that "no plan" was a "good plan"

[itzamirakul]

87. "Junior was in deep deep thought, while at hard work...."

sitting on the toilet. The outcome was Xmas dinner.

[B3Nut]

34. Him????

Incurious George, Mr. I-don't-read-anything? Thinking? Oh come now, don't be silly. That requires an at least minimum level of intellectual acuity. :D

TP, being a naughty smartass

[Catchawave]

8. Here's an article on the 'stingy' mess....

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apasia_story.asp?category=1104&slug=Stingy%20Rich%20Nations

[NYC]

10. Jan Egeland of Norway did NOT say that.

He said western industrial nations did not give enough. He also said that taxation was low.

Norway used to be, and may still be for all I know, the most charitable (per capita) nation in the world.

Egeland did not single out the United States. I think the United States saw his remark as one of those "if the shoes fits" remarks.

[jdj]

77. not even the point. He said in 2004 the U.N. programs

in general suffered because of lower amounts of money given in general.

His speech was given on Monday, it can be watched at C-span.(You have to click on "recent events" or whatever and click next a couple of times to find it look for 12/27

I watched it live, and although he was referring to 2004 revenues for general ongoing programs, he DID accuse wealthier nations of being poor givers this year. I laughed out loud when he said this, although I don't believe that he specifically mentioned the U.S.

I am embarassed at the effort being made to take a tragedy that has killed at least 125,000 people and make it it about America. This dialogue to me has been nauseating, but the fact that it probably has increased the amount of revenues is worth it I suppose.

Eggelund doesn't care, he has inadvertedly stumbled onto a new way to make money. He is probably still chuckling to himself, in the conferences I have seen after this he seems to be trying hard not to laugh out loud about it.

[autorank]

5. Excellent post.

Some people around here are having trouble with the rest of the world giving us grief or portrayed as giving us grief over this. Well, get used to it. If people didn't trust or like us before this, they'll have even less trust now. It is certainly not fair that * is take to represent "America", i.e, us, but that's the fact. I can't think of a president in memory who would have done such a bad job.

Take a look at this clip and watch the entire thing. It sums it all up:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/quake.videos/index.html

Then click on: Grief-stricken survivors in Aceh

[lgardengate]

9. Yeah, but the fact is America will give the most and spend the

most for this.We are already sending people and all kinds of stuff on plains over there.

No one ever helps us when we have a disaster (3 or 4 hurricans) etc.
Who sent anyone over to help us look for bodys after 911?
No one.
But whenever anyone else needs help we are there.
I didn't like the comment about us being "stingy",if we ever became stingy no one else would step up to take our place and give /do as much.

[bpilgrim]

11. we are at the BOTTOM when you do a GDP comparison

and you are revealing your loud IGNORANCE when you say no-one offers us help after tragedies, especially after 911.

but i don't blame you, i blame the media.

peace

[Tinoire]

12. You are extremely ill-informed. Have you already forgotten the outpouring

of grief, love, money and humanitarian aid we were given after 9-11? The aid we are also given from other countries after hurricanes and such disasters?

I am ashamed to read your comment on this board. This I expect to see on boards "elsewhere", but not here.

Do you still ask yourself "why do they hate us"?

[Boosterman]

18. I agree with you on the 9/11 thing

but when have we got foreign aid after a hurricane? Not doubting you just dont remember anything like that.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

41. Have we asked for help? And did we really need it?

The hurricanes and disasters here are bad no doubt. We (the USA) have the money and resources to handle just about anything thrown at us. 9/11 the only country that sent a team was Israel and that was to Mexico as we would not allow them to enter the country immediately following. We had enough resources internally to handle the situation. It is rare when the USA requests foreign aid for natural disasters.

[Boosterman]

53. No we havent asked for help

nor do I think we need to. However the previous poster alleged that we received aid for the hurricanes. I was simply curious.

[jdj]

79. Are you effing serious????

Why the h. would the richest nation in the world, a nation that is spending 8 million dollars an hour for a war in Iraq, need help with a natural disaster. That is really getting ridiculous.

God help us when people can say things like this with a straight face...a caller on C-span said the same thing yesterday.

[Boosterman]

85. No the poster I replied to

alleged that we recieved aid from other countries after the hurricanes. I asked if that was true.

[Undercover Owl]

70. "why do they hate us?"

LOL
they hate us for our freedom, silly!

[autorank]

14. European help to America after 911

Take a look at this. It's just a partial listing. It's amazing. What makes you think nobody helped. It's reported that French warned us in advance as did the Germans.

http://www.eurunion.org/partner/EUUSTerror/2002EURespUSTerror.htm

The European Union also sent election observers to the USA as part of an international agreement we have. We were not too receptive to that one.

[Acryliccalico]

16. * is stingy

I am sorry but * makes our whole country look stingy even if the rest of us 99% arn't.

[iangb]

19. The fact is that the US spends less than..........

....0.1% of GDP on international aid,and nearly half of that is military aid (mostly to Israel, the largest recipient of US aid).

Norway, the Netherlands and Sweden spend ten times that on aid (1% GDP).

Australia spends about three times the US amount on aid (in GDP terms).

The US is ranked 23rd amongst nations aid expenditure.

Stingy?

You decide.

[tx_dem41]

22. Well if you didn't like the "stingy" comment, I have great news.....

NO ONE said it!! You were sucked by slanted reporting by the Washington Moonie Times.

[Chimpanzee]

59. Why do you keep saying that?

According to the Associated Press:

UNITED NATIONS -- U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland praised rich nations Wednesday for their generosity in helping victims of the tsunami, but stood by his criticism that the rich do too little to assist the poor when there are no emergencies.

President Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell took umbrage at Egeland's comment Monday: "We were more generous when we were less rich," he said. "And it is beyond me why we are so stingy, really."

The following day Egeland told reporters that his complaint was directed at no nation in particular, and didn't refer to the outpouring of assistance for the victims of the disaster - a point he reiterated Wednesday.

[tx_dem41]

67. Because NO one said the U.S was stingy.

The original post claimed a UN rep called the US stingy. And you gave me a quote from a Mr. Jan Egeland using the phrase "we". Why would a NORWEGIAN use the phrase "WE" if he was talking about the US?


More about it here:

http://gadflyer.com/flytrap/index.php?Week=200453#1326

[Chimpanzee]

68. He was talking about the richest countries

Since we are the richest country and at the time he said that we had pledged a measly 15 million it doesn't take a rocket scientists to infer which country he was referring to.

[tx_dem41]

69. If you want to follow the Moonie Times....be my guest..

Many liberals are up in arms that the Washington Times twisted these words for the RW spin machine to use. They've been quite successful this week.

[Chimpanzee]

74. What the hell are you talking about?

I don't read the Washington Times and my point is that the UN guy was obviously implicating the US in his statement.

[tx_dem41]

75. No...he was implicating the rich donors as he called them...

That probably includes about 20-30 countries. When asked to point out specific countries he refused.

Continue to play off Americans against the United Nations. That's what the Wash Times was trying to do by inventing the quote, and the RW spin machine has been spinning it all week.

Its reaches have included the LTTE column in the local paper today (every letter denounced the UN, in typical RW vitriol) as well as DU apparently.

[Chimpanzee]

76. I'm not playing the UN vs the US

I'm playing me against the criminal Bush! I'm so fucking sorry if you don't like it!

[tx_dem41]

78. I'm not arguing that * isn't stingy....

Just don't let the average person miss that fact and get obsessed by the "evil UN" instead (which is what is happening in the red-state world).

Anyway, we are in basic agreement, so sorry for prolonging this exercise. Peace and happy New Year!

[Chimpanzee]

88. I'm sorry I misunderstood your angle.

The pukes will use any excuse to bash the UN.

Happy New Year to you too!

[jdj]

80. Did you actually watch this live?

It sounds like it...

The worst thing is he didn't name any names.

And the fact that the U.S. has been so defensive means to me that there is a guilty conscience. Good. Let's help these folks get water and food and back on their feet.

[tx_dem41]

82. Oh.....I think calling the rich donors stingy worked out as...

planned. It seems a lot more has been donated ever since.

I watched a replay of it on C-SPAN a few days ago.

[achtung_circus]

24. Where on earth did you get that nonsense.

"Who sent anyone over to help us look for bodys after 911?
No one."

Read for God's sake. The entire world helped. Firefighters and police drove from all over Canada (for one) to help.

So stop spouting such crap.

[sandnsea]

27. What's that "did they forget" song?

Seems to me some forgot the important part and only want to remember revenge.

[Chelsea Patriot]

38. Your Ignorance is appalling!

International aid flooded NYC after 9/11.

By the by, the plural of the word "Body" is "Bodies".

I'm not even going to try to punctuate your ramblings.

Not only are you ignorant of current events and the basics of the English language, you are too lazy to hit spell-check before posting.

[juslikagrzly]

46. You are absolutely full of sh** on this

The huge outpouring of help, support and love from all over the world was hanging on fences around the Murrah building crater in OKC

Countries with dog rescue teams were certainly in NYC. Money poured in from everywhere for the victims funds

We are stingy, arrogant and our image around the world is "richly" deserved. Your response is exactly why the rest of world thinks we suck.

BTW, how do you spell "plane"???

GEEEZZZ

[Malva Zebrina]

55. well I'll tell ya

I have little money, but when I see one of my neighbors suffering with a horrible disaster, I try to help and I don't ask what they have done for me first.

You should try that. I think you may plainly benefit.

[DoYouEverWonder]

56. Here, this is for you

[Kellanved]

57. I am deeply hurt by your comment

The US would not be and was not left alone after getting struck by disaster.


And that despite the US being far more able to deal with it, than the poor countries hit by this catastrophe of a far greater scale.

You are comparing apples to oranges and you are not even doing it fairly.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misunderestimator]

72. What on earth does your sigline mean?

Oh, and also.... are you saying that the US is not selfish?

[bvar22]

84. Cuba offers Humanitarian Aid to US!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20010912/451631.htm


I am looking for links, but IIRC, Cuba regularly offers aid after hurricanes.
Cuba has also offered assistance in helping the USA with FAIR Elections.

We should have accepted.

[itzamirakul]

89. As far as 911 is concerned...

I live in NYC and following the WTC, Giuliani specifically requested that unauthorized persons please not come to the site and he handed much of the clean-up work to demolition companies, many of which have either been accused of or suspected of mob ties.

In other words...foreign aid was not requested nor accepted.

Plenty of people came to NYC from the red states to lend a hand and it became unmanageable...no way to house or feed them. They were treated well by New Yorkers but in the end, after the initial shock began wo wear off, they were requested to return home and allow the city to assign the clean-up work to New Yorkers.

What aide do we need from other countries? They offer to send in rescue teams, etc...but it is usually not needed because there are enough Americans to do the job and we do not need the financial aid.

[LynnTheDem]

91. "Who sent anyone over to help look for bodies after 911"????????

EXSQUEEZE ME???????

Try CANADA for one. And that would be just a start.

[Tinoire]

13. SF Bay Area Dem

I am with you in your pain and not far from you at all. If you ever want to talk, PM me. You expressed my sentiments so well.

:hug:

[imax2268]

15. well...

isn't it clear now where the media get's their clues from...gee...who would have thought...

leave it up to the moonie times to fuck it all up and spread bullshit...!

[Acryliccalico]

17. Seems to me

that the right wing is getting super defensive, must have something to HIDE. Or are they always that way. I don't go to their sites so wouldn't know. I wouldn't be able to stand all the heat. WOOOOOOOOOO sounds like He** doesn't it. NO, not going there. :scared:

[Disturbed]

20. Rethugs are thin skinned.

They dish out crap but cannot take any criticism.

Most of the Dems in Congress are weasles, afraid to confront the Rethug jugernought of horseshit.

[opihimoimoi]

21. YOU GOT IT RIGHT

[Catchawave]

23. Great OpEd in today's NYT:

EDITORIAL
Are We Stingy? Yes

Published: December 30, 2004

President Bush finally roused himself yesterday from his vacation in Crawford, Tex., to telephone his sympathy to the leaders of India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia, and to speak publicly about the devastation of Sunday's tsunamis in Asia. He also hurried to put as much distance as possible between himself and America's initial measly aid offer of $15 million, and he took issue with an earlier statement by the United Nations' emergency relief coordinator, Jan Egeland, who had called the overall aid efforts by rich Western nations "stingy." "The person who made that statement was very misguided and ill informed," the president said.

We beg to differ. Mr. Egeland was right on target. We hope Secretary of State Colin Powell was privately embarrassed when, two days into a catastrophic disaster that hit 12 of the world's poorer countries and will cost billions of dollars to meliorate, he held a press conference to say that America, the world's richest nation, would contribute $15 million. That's less than half of what Republicans plan to spend on the Bush inaugural festivities.

more at........http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.html?oref=login&th

[Forkboy]

26. Take a look on any of the aid/tsunami threads

and look how many people are defending this.

DU is being invaded by repubs since this happened.

[xchrom]

28. aren't we though

but they do provide comic relief in an otherwise bleak time.

[wishlist]

30. First U.S. aid figure I read was only for $100,000 then it escalated

I remember first reading last Sunday that the U.S. would be providing $100,000 in relief. Then as time went on that figure rose in news reports to $35 million after a couple of days. So it is not surprising that the U.N. spokesman made a comment about stingy wealthy nations several days ago, when the monetary amounts were initially much less. Mainstream media and RW though have kept the story going in order to discredit the U.N. and don't mention how small the initial U.S. aid amounts were in earlier reports.

[Tinoire]

51. You noticed too. They sure love to come here to "defend" their

leader.

[dolo amber]

29. We're not *stingy*, we're *broke*

We can't send money to help the victims of this horrible tragedy because we're spending billions to opress and kill brown people in the name of freedom. GO USA!!! :bounce:


:eyes:

[SF Bay Area Dem]

31. If this were to happen to Tom Delay's hometown of Sugarland...

...they (Congress) would have already sent billions! That corrupt motherfucker.

[elehhhhna]

33. Doubt it. Elections over.

[sundog]

35. yup

[imabadman]

32. Still, it wasn't a very diplomatic thing...

for a diplomat to say.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

40. So what? Why do we care what some bureaucrat says?

Are you concerned about the people who are dying? Or what some bureaucrat from the UN says? What are you anyway? Some kind of closet conservative? Your statement makes me think so.

[imabadman]

42. I can assure you

I'm not a closet conservative, but I really don't care what you think.

However, imho, Egeland, who is (I think)the secretary for humanitarian affairs, should have been more diplomatic.

That would have been the smart thing to do with respect to furthering the humanitarian cause.

If you don't understand that, then you aren't much of a diplomat either.

[G_j]

45. and what would being more "diplomatic." have done

the rest of the world agrees with him, and Bush and the gang really don't give a shit.
In fact without all the negative publicity they may have not agreed to giving a little bit more.
I fail to see what being "diplomatic" would even mean in this case.
Chose another world for "stingy"?

[imabadman]

48. I don't need to choose another word

I’m a bit more diplomatic than that.

And I don’t thing he helped the cause at all. In fact, he may have caused some to withhold their donations.

The long and the short of is this: If you want something from someone, you should try not to be a jerk.

[G_j]

50. perhaps not diplomatic in the traditional sense

but telling the truth doesn't make him a jerk.
In fact "stingy" is putting it VERY mildly.

How about a bunch of "murderous, lying, hypocritical bastards"?

[Chimpanzee]

60. How about 'shallow pockets' - that seems much nicer.

[Geek_Girl]

44. It's Exactly what needed to be said

and it worked because now all those "stingy" rich countries are starting to fork over the cash. It doesn't matter whether the Bush administration and a few Right Wingers got their feelings hurt. It's about getting aid to those in need.

[imabadman]

49. I see

What we have here is another brilliant diplomat. :)

[Catchawave]

61. He didn't say *it*.....

I think there's an article posted here what he did say? And he certainly didn't use the word *stingy*

[Redneck Socialist]

63. He did use "stingy" but it wasn't in reference to the US

"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries," Egeland said. "And it is beyond me, why are we so stingy, really.... Even Christmas time should remind many Western countries at least how rich we have become."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/stingy.americans.ap/ (quote's about 2/3 of the way down.)

I don't see an attack on the US specifically there, but we know how the pubs like to make shit up.

[Catchawave]

64. Thanks for the correction......

...just proves how paranoid Bushco is. So sad. Yes, the *stingy* spin has translated to "UN says US Stingy". That's obviously not what he said.

[Redneck Socialist]

65. You're welcome

The right has long since proven that facts matter not to them. What the hell, it's just easier to make shit up anyway.

[PaulaFarrell]

71. I disagree

it worked perfectly. Since the statement, countries have been falling all over themselves to prove that THEY aren't the stingy ones, and the amount of aid money has balloooned. Good on him, I say.

[Jack_Dawson]

36. An Intelligent Raider Fan?

No way...can it be? Just kidding - great post. I share in your shame.

:beer:

[SF Bay Area Dem]

37. Yes some Raiders fans have MBA's and social grace...

LOL!

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spanone]

39. I have been appalled and ashamed for four years.

This just pours gas on the fire.

[Geek_Girl]

43. The More they rant and rave

in public the more the world sees the Republicans and the Bush adminstration as irrelevant weasles. Let them whine and cry cause nobody that really matters is listening to their bullshit and the more the American public listens to and believes their crap the more irrelevant we become as a super power.

[nolabels]

47. There is hundreds of billions for a farce of installing democracy but.....

a pittance for hundreds of thousands that have died and millions left homeless. The US government showing the real agenda behind what they are really all about.

I don't agree that it is just republicans either, this may be a partisan board, but I am not singing no mantra.

One corporate war party compared to another does not a comparison make

[c o f f e e]

52. our leader----dumba is not stingy

Well, Well , Well..it is unfortunate that it takes a crisis of
biblical proportions to focus ameriKa's attention on the poor.
Why don't the top 2% in the BUSH tax cut kick in a matching
fund equal to the amount the rest of us give??? you make me
sick ameriKa...150 Billion for WAR and 35million for relief.
I think I will vomit in a ziplock and mail it to USAID. Next
the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders will make a PR appearance
shaking tits and ass for hospitalized victims followed by the
inevitable BENEFIT CONCERT of "has been" rockers
with careers that have one foot in the grave. Of course with
a follow-up DVD for sale. It's all about $$$$

bush is not stingy...bush spends money like water on guns bombs tanks surveillance mines spys...bush is a pig and everyone who voted for him is a pig

ameriKa where have you gone?

another cup of 100 mile coffee to go!

[Chimpanzee]

62. You really touched me, man. I'm inspired!

[c o f f e e]

86. happy happy new new year year

thanks for the reply.....is it me or does the number 2005 seem better than 2004???? let hope.

another cup of mud...peace.

[Chimpanzee]

90. I don't know

It's just that much closer to Bush's 'rapture'.

[c o f f e e]

92. new ameriKa

Hey...being unhappy is a waste of energy...get pissed off...it is more productive. We just started a new group in yahoo called 'ameriKans'...basically its all about starting over. Fuck the old america. It has failed. We don't belong there anymore and we leave happily...We have nothing in common with the citizens of the old america they are the fucking evildoers- election rigging oil
drilling money grubbing back stabbing war mongers. We want a new country. We want to become new ameriKans...respected in the world and building a positive future for the earth and its inhabitance.
Please join us and immigrate to ameriKa.

[e-mail]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ameriKans

In Solidarity-

c o f f e e

[lewiston]

73. Without comment

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51896117&cdi=0

[Peak_Oil]

81. You see that kid's t-shirt?

I know some people who are going to make mountains out of that stupid t-shirt.

[Darranar]

83. Yes, shame on us...

Shame on us for spending hundreds of times more money on aggression against Iraq, a matter resulting in a hundred thousand deaths, then in aiding the victims of the tsunami.

And shame on us for calling this "generous".