Kerensky or Lenin?

[maveric]

Poll question: Kerensky or Lenin?

Kerensky wanted the workers to get rich by well-paying jobs set by the state.

Lenein wanted the rich to be poor by redistribution of wealth.

Which of these two do you subscribe to?

[Name removed]

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[InvisibleBallots]

4. Are you a Communist, frizzo426?

We're all wondering?

[tx_dem41]

5. I'm wondering too...

but it ain't about Communism. ;-)

[KSAtheist]

11. Nonsense.

Lenin invaded Poland in an effort to "spread revolutionary socialism." It was a disaster.

Lenin: "We must direct all our attention to preparing and strengthening of the Western Front. It is necessary to announce a new slogan: Prepare for war against Poland."

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Poland invaded Russia.

The Civil War period was chaotic, and the new state of Poland sought to take advantage.

[KSAtheist]

14. Russia Invaded Poland first.

On 2nd Jan 1919.

[Ken Burch]

22. But when did the KGB arrest Lara in Paris?

seriously, though, I'd have liked the chance to vote for Emma Goldman, the Krondstadt sailors, or Rosa Luxemburg.

In the poll above, I voted Lenin only because I believe in the ideal espoused, as opposed to the bloodsoaked police state reality Lenin and Stalin actually created.

[InvisibleBallots]

2. Crap

Both options are crap, and not in the slightest what either supported.

[maveric]

6. If there were to be a revolution today in the USA, which one would

you rather see happen?

[InvisibleBallots]

8. neither

Your explanation of the view of both people are simply false - therefore, the poll is meaningless.

[RafterMan]

3. Kerensky

Redistributing wealth does not produce wealth.

Work does.

[Vidar]

7. More to it than this. Kerensky was IMHO a more honorable man.

Surprizingly, he was extremely long-lived, having died fairly recently.

[ngant17]

18. Lenin was debilitated by an attempted assassination

I think you might find that getting shot multiple times with poisoned bullets would not be beneficial to your longevity -- the would-be assassin Kaplan shot Lenin and it contributed to his strokes and failing health.

[Wabbajack]

21. 1970 is recent?

[Ken Burch]

23. Kerensky was unquestioningly committed to keeping Russia in World War I

...which would have made everyone'e life there far worse.

That war served only the rich.

No one could know at the time that the Revolution would turn into a cruel joke.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. Kerensky wanted to fight the Great War "smarter."

I don't idealize Lenin, but I'm more Bolshie than Menshie.

[Name removed]

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[BillZBubb]

15. Lenin didn't want wholesale murder. Stalin wanted that.

Lenin seriously wanted to help the proletariat. He actually was starting to see the problems with the revolution just prior to being shot. He wanted to introduce some market based reforms.

That said, Lenin let Stalin sneak in under the tent, so for that he's eliminated as a choice. Anyone who trusted that weasel isn't fit for leadership.

Kerensky had his problems as well and was hopelessly in over his head.

Maybe Sergei Kirov is the better choice.

[Name removed]

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[Ken Burch]

24. What about Trotsky, anybody?

[FDRrocks]

27. Stalin was extremely manipulative....

And Lenin wrote a letter stating that he did not want Stalin to suceed him, and would much prefer Trotsky. It was to be read after his deat by his wife to the Commisars.

Stalin manupilated, Trotsky got expatriated, the people got incarcerated, Trotsky got assassinated, and his history according to the Russian state, got erradicated.

I can actually sympathize with Lenin in his way. His whole life seemed to be an over-reaction to the execution of his brother. He moved forward and forward, until he eventually became what he once hated.

[Ken Burch]

32. Lenin's key contribution to the Marxist tradition

was the idea of the vanguard party, a small, secretive highly disciplined group of revolutionaries would would lead the struggle until the bourgeoisie was overthrown. They would lead the early revolutionary state as a kind of provisional government, in the name of the workers. Then, once the Revolution had consolidated power, the vanguard would immediately disband and hand control of the means of production to the working class.

Problem was, when the vanguardists got into power, they liked ruling by decree, and enjoyed the fact that they could build huge armies and dachas for themselves on the Black Sea, all in "the name of the workers." the soldiers and sailors at Krondstadt saw this happening and revolted against the Bolshevik regime. The Red Army crushed their revolt, and the last genuinely revolutionary aspects of the state with it. Trotsky, who opposed the revolt and helped crush it, tried to resist Stalin after he succeeded Lenin in power, but had no effective means of doing so, and went into exile in Turkey and later Mexico, where he was killed with an ice axe in 1940(shortly after he had ended his affair with Frida Kahlo.

Meanwhile, the streets of Moscow ran with blood, and the NKVD and later the KGB enforced the madness.

More info than anybody wanted, and lots of examples of the law of unintended consequences.

[JVS]

37. Stalin probably didn't want it either, but sometimes shit happens and...

you are faced with a decision where either the cause you are working for die or traitors working in concert with a worldwide encirclement of capitalist fiends have to be killed :-)

[Annus Horribilis]

13. I Prefer Trotsky

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Kerensky Was A Liberal Democrat-small l small d

He was the wiser choice for Russia....

[ngant17]

19. Kerensky and Tsarism

1000 years of Tsarist government over Old Russia couldn't have been eradicated by some fancy window-dressing supplied by Kerensky. There's no way these people would have voluntarily relinquished power, even if you could have had a fair election.

Revolutions don't occur so that men might become angels.

Before you declare that the fall of the USSR proves that Marx and Lenin have been thrown on the dustbin of history, you might want to check their current status with China, Vietnam, Cuba and a few other places in the world.

[American Tragedy]

36. Yeah, China and Vietnam are fine little dictatorships.

Quite a legacy for Communism.

[KSAtheist]

38. I notice that you didn't list North Korea.

It always amuses me that people who wave the red banner of socialist revolution forget about North Korea, probably the purest communist state in the world.

About a million people died of famine in the self-reliant people's republic over the past ten years. And, to keep the ideology pure, they have a camp where political prisioners--including children--are dealt with.

[Ken Burch]

30. If Kerensky had stayed in power

He would never have been able to do anything for the workers and the poor, since he was in permanent alliance with the Constitutional Democrats(aristocratic reactionaries)and was thus blocked, like Bill Clinton, from serving anyone but the rich. That was half the reason he stayed in the imperialist war that was causing the pointless slaughter of millions of workers and peasants.

[JanMichael]

20. "Get Rich"? How about just being able to have access to Healthcare...

...Safe Decent Housing, Work, Cultural Activities and Education for all?

It's amazing how people automatically think everyone wants to be a little tyrant...Whoops, I mean "Rich".

[K-W]

25. Its about standard of living, not wealth.

Making it possible for all people to live happy enriched lives.

[Jack_DeLeon]

26. Kerensky shall return....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battletech#The_Clans

and he will bring back the Star League.

[orpupilofnature57]

28. THOMAS JEFFERSON!!!

[rman]

29. Hugo Chavez

-

[Ken Burch]

31. And the examples of the Sandinistas and Salvador Allende

who worked heroically to emancipate the working classes of their countries and were stopped by American-subsidized violence.

The Democratic foreign policy should support the liberation of all oppressed peoples from exploitation.

But, of course, the DLC would say no, because that would mean fewer corporate luxury suites at the Convention.

[autorank]

33. Kerensky...the classic example of a liberal who wouldn't fight fascism

i.e. the Bolsheviks (the extreme left and right join at fascism when the spectrum turns into a circle).

[American Tragedy]

34. Definitely Karensky

since he seems to have valued civil liberties.

But that isn't saying much, given my opinion of Vladimir Lenin.

[catbert836]

35. More Lenin. But Kerensky is cool too.

I also consider myself a socialist, but I subscribe to Marx and Trotsky more than those two.