Email wars with my dad - much fun

[skygazer]

Today, I received yet another lame email from my Republican dad. This one was about the old days when Hollywood actors were "real patriots" and didn't hate their country. It had a long list of actors who had volunteered to serve in WWII.

Rather than point out how disillusioned a populace becomes when it is consistently lied to about the reasons for war and sent to fight and die for causes that have more to do with corporate greed than freedom and democracy, I simply replied, "yeah, it's like those damn politicians. Let's look at them and see who the true patriots are." And I included the list - I'm sure he'll appreciate it.



Prominent Democrats

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Pete Stark D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.
Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force
Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy.
Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.



Prominent Republicans

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve.
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war."
VP Cheney - did not serve; several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes. Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments
Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve
Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve
Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve
Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve
Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve
Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve
Jack Kemp, did not serve (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years
Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity
Eliot Abrams, did not serve
Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve
Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve
Richard Perle, did not serve
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani, did not serve
Michael Bloomberg, did not serve
George Pataki, did not serve
Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) – did not serve; website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve
Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition

[Jo March]

1. Zing! I believe that you'll win this round!

I sympathize - my dad was a staunch repub. :( It's a hard battle, isn't it?

[skygazer]

2. It is and I don't know why he bothers

He's not going to change my mind and I know I'm not going to change his. I almost never instigate these exchanges but every time he sends me one of these bullshit things, I reply with a devastating barrage of fact and logic which he is never able to respond to.

I can almost guarantee I will hear nothing back about this. And what kills me is he never actually says anything in his own words - it's always these stupid bulk emails that get sent around. Why can't these people articulate their own views?

[Jo March]

7. Rethugs can do one thing well: stay on message

no matter how stupid and wrong the message is.

Sigh.

You try for the same reason I tried: You love your dad and hate to see him so brainwashed. I wish you luck with the fight. My dad died believing that his bigoted view of the world was right.

[neebob]

12. Be glad

He probably doesn't respond because he knows he'll lose ... and yet he persists. Last night I had a grand sweeping telephone debate with my mom that was only successful because it didn't infuriate me. She kept insisting that gay people wanting to get married is hurting her personally because it's morally wrong. That's her big gun, the best she can do. It's exhausting and pointless.

If Mombob had a puter and some actual information, it would be a nightmare.

[alcuno]

3. What's more important? Hollywood or The Congress of the United States?

Glad that you and your dad can banter. I had a Manhattan thrown at me once.

[skygazer]

4. We live 3000 miles apart

As long as he doesn't get his hands on an ICBM, I think we'll be okay. ;)

[dummy-du1]

5. A terrorist in congress?

Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.

Wouldn't have this -- measured by modern standards -- made him a terrorist?

[ashmanonar]

6. i believe it would

what i'd like to know is WHEN this redefinition of freedom fighter to "terrorist" took place...we deify the people who served in the french maquis, who fought against the nazis..and we demonize the people who fight for their own country in iraq...

[Radio_Lady]

8. We'd be willing to "adopt " you, skygazer...

We're two lifelong democrats, age 65 and 70. We've raised five children, now in their 40's and 30's. We have room in our hearts for any younger person who has had such a buffeting from their natural parent(s). I do an audio show every week (I'm a former radio talk show host from Boston and Miami, now living in Oregon). My husband joins me periodically. I'm sorry your Republican father feels he has to blast you periodically with his propaganda.

I might add that I was distanced from my parents who lived in Florida while I was in my 20's and 30's in Boston and New York.
They were not politically challenged (both were Democrats), but we had other issues on which we could never agree. They are both now deceased. I try to remember the good times... when your parent(s) are gone, things feel a lot different.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[justgamma]

9. When they blast Hollywood,

are they blasting Arnold, Ronnie, or Fred Thompson.

Do we have any elected officials from "Hollywood"? The only one I remember is Gopher from the Love Boat.

[Liberty2001]

10. C'mon, in all fairness ...

Its intellectually dishonest to list Dems who DID serve ... and then list Repugs who DID NOT serve ... listing who did not serve is no indication of the Repugs who did serve. It gives the impression that Repugs did not serve.

If you want a comparison of those who did serve, then, in all honesty, you should list those who did serve.

I am quite certain that there are many Repugs who served just like there are Dems who served.

I dislike these comparisons FROM EITHER PARTY ... there are many who fought and served valiantly ON BOTH SIDES ... just as sure as shit there are those Dems and Repugs who tried to get out of serving.

[alcuno]

11. That's the point. When you look at it from a perspective of leadership...

the term chickenhawk is a pro-war individual pushing war who did not serve. Of course there are Republicans who served. That isn't the real point. The two most prominent, McCain and Hagel, were hardly pro-war.

[skygazer]

13. In all fairness

It's intellectually dishonest to list a bunch of actors who served in WWII and compare them to people who are in Hollywood now. WWII was a different time and a different war, fought for different reasons. As stated in the OP, I chose not to argue back with the fact that serving in the military has lost a lot of its allure because of the repeated lies our government has told us in regards to our military adventures overseas which are less about spreading freedom and democracy and more about spreading American influence and making money.

Of course there are plenty of Repugs who served - though when you look at the list, it's striking that those who are in the positions of the most power in regards to making war did not. But I simply chose to answer on his own terms.

The point is you can skew any facts to fit your agenda (something this administration has gotten down to a science) and my reply to him certainly highlights that. That was the main reason I chose to send it. He won't pick up on it but I enjoy the knowledge.

[greenbriar]

14. why don't you list your service?

how much did you donate to the bush fund?

[DireStrike]

16. Come on, now. That was uncalled for.

Partisanship on either side of the aisle is bad.

[bobbieinok]

15. main point of list.....compare dem and rep elected officials

it's then truly mind-boggling the ##s of repub who DID NOT SERVE.....#1 and #2 examples aWol bush and 'other priorities' cheney