Is it okay to hate white people here?

[last1standing]

I hope this thread doesn't get locked because I think it brings up a valid problem creeping into discussions here at DU. While still rare, I've been noticing some posters here feeling free to stereotype and denigrate white people in a way that would never be accepted toward another ethnic group. I've linked a few of them below.

This poster claims that anyone who believes O.J. Simpson was guilty is a racist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2335114#2335155

Does this mean that only racists think that Scott Peterson was guilty?

The next thread is loaded with prejudice. The author is actually trying to say that pornography is almost exclusively purchased and used by white men as a way to exploit minorities.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2874684

"I wonder if you have read the "country's documented appetite for sexual fare." It will show the expanse and development indeed of the almost exclusively white male palate, still craving the "golden days" when they could freely and legally sexually exploit any member of their "minority" group, and so practice free speech for the right to be able to sexually fantasize about exploiting members of their "minority" group, since they are no longer freely and legally able to actually exploit them now."

And later in the same thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2874684#2874859

"It is a unusual day when prostitutes, strippers, adult video sellers service colored men."

Can you imagine the uproar if that post had said "It is a unusual day when prostitutes, strippers, adult video sellers service anyone but colored people."?

It's my belief that if we are to call ourselves "progressives" it betrays our cause to actually regress into any form of prejudice or racism, and that includes hurtful and insensitive statements about white people.

I don't want to be part of a party that discriminates and attacks anyone for the color of their skin or their personal beliefs. I don't support it when it's done to any other group and I can't see this as any different. It's become like those posts that call repubs "butt fuckers" or some other derogatory slang for gay men. It's just wrong and shows the lack of true progressive values from some of the posters here.

I'm just saying, let's work toward ending prejudice and racism for ALL people not just some. The best way to do that is to stop it among ourselves first.

[Liberal Veteran]

1. Did you alert on any of those posts?

And explain why you though they were racist?

[last1standing]

5. I try not to alert anyone who isn't an obvious freeper.

I did post in "Parables of Porn" about the prejudice in the author's statement, but it went unanswered.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. Doesn't matter if they are freepers or not.

If a post violates the rules, then alert it. You are complaining when you didn't act to have the rules enforced.

BIGOTRY

Do not post racist, sexist, homophobic, ethnic, anti-religious, or anti-atheist bigotry. Unambiguous expressions of bigotry will be deleted, and will often result in the immediate banning of the individual responsible.

If it is not clear whether a comment is bigoted, we will generally give the benefit of the doubt and assume the least-bigoted interpretation. However, individuals who repeatedly post borderline-bigoted comments will be considered bigots and will be removed.

When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view. This will help avoid misunderstandings and undeserved accusations of bigotry.

[last1standing]

13. Fair enough.

Your right, I should have alerted them. I still think it's worth a thread to call it out for the bigotry it is. I think bringing it to the forefront will have a greater effect in curtailing it.

[auntAgonist]

2. I think the question should be ...

Is it OK to hate? ... my answer NO. period.

[tx_dem41]

21. Wow...you are a rarity, and I commend you.

I doubt a thread goes by here, where the word isn't used at some point. Very sad IMO.

[Mr.Green93]

3. Do you support them?

[last1standing]

7. Do I support whom? n/t

[jpgray]

4. It's also okay to hate men, but who's counting?

Since I'm a white male and am generalized to be nominally "in power", I have no right to complain. I think that's the way it works here.

:)

[s-cubed]

16. Use the alert, and protest without hatred or personal attacks. I

think a lot of us say things that can be hurtful without realizing it.

[ixion]

6. you shouldn't hate anyone

but you can certainly feel better when they're not around. ;-)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. No, it's not OK to hate any race.

But if you want to hate some individual white people on the basis of what they, personally, have done rather than on account of their race, go right ahead. There are a few I'm not too crazy about myself.

[last1standing]

11. I'm all for disliking or even hating an individual.

The problem I have is that these posters have made prejudiced remarks about entire ethnic groups. But I think I'm preaching to the choir with you. :)

[Eloriel]

56. Uh, white isn't an ethnic group n/t

[last1standing]

58. Is caucasion not an ethnicity?

n/t

[MLE]

10. racism is racism no matter where it comes from

and it's never ok.

[slor]

12. Your subject line...

is incendiary and silly.

[last1standing]

14. Thanks for the opinion.

[Tacos al Carbon]

34. The subject line

brings up a valid and important point.

[slor]

38. Speaking as an African American man...

I was offended by it, maybe that was an unreasonable response on my part. But it is no less unreasonable than his statement/question/assertion that is a complete overgeneralization of the kind that makes racism/prejudice possible in the first place. We all know that it is NOT OK to hate white people here.

[Tacos al Carbon]

47. "We all know that it is NOT OK to hate white people here."

And that's just the problem. "We" quite obviously do NOT all know that.

Edit for typo.

[last1standing]

52. How is my thread an over-generalization?

I've reread it and can't find anything that was prejudiced or stereotypical.

As for the question I asked, I think I've backed up the reasoning for it with the links provided. The statements made by these posters may have been more insensitive than purposefully hurtful, but when called out on their statements they made no move to clarify or rescind their comments.

Based on that I think my title is perfectly acceptable.

[slor]

62. The over-generalization is the question itself...

"Is it okay to hate white people here?" Maybe you phrased it with rhetorical zest or flair, but to make that assumption, based on a few inflammatory posts, is in fact, an over-generalization. And that is what prejudice is based upon, over-generalizations of a group. I did not mean that anything in your post was inherently prejudiced. See what I mean?

[last1standing]

64. I was careful with the way I phrased the question.

I did want to draw attention but not misrepresent the message of the post. It does seem to have struck some people as harsh but I've found that if I post something like "Is it okay that a couple of posters have been insensitive to white people?" the thread would have dropped faster than Enron stock.

And while I do agree that any form of bigotry is relatively rare here, these were just a couple of threads that I've seen this week. There have been others and I just hope that be bringing this up more people will consider what they're saying before posting in future, not just about white people, but about gay people, women, African-Americans, Latinos, etc..... I can't say that I've made the best choice in my attempt to get that message out, but I still can't think of a better way.

[infusionman]

71. kick

[seabeyond]

15. i am a white person, and i am mad at white people

and i tell my sons about white males and their powers over all, and their innate responsibility being white males not to abuse their power over others.

calling it the way i see it. because i spout a truth doesnt make it a wrong. if it is said out loud, maybe, just maybe we can come to resolve. if we pretend it isnt true, it will fester and grow.

do i hate white people, nah,........not my mode. do i hate men, huh uh,.......all around i love and take care of are white men and boys. but are there responsibilities, you betcha

[last1standing]

19. Everything you said is true.

And that's why stereotyping white people is wrong. There are so many of us who understand the responsibility of any group with more control than another.

I also know that racism against other ethnic groups is far more pervasive in our society than anything against whites. My worry is that by accepting it here at DU we call into question the very beliefs we say we are standing up for. If we're not careful, we could become the enemy we are fighting.

[seabeyond]

24. i do hear what you are saying, really

i just dont have a tough time not judging another. seeing that people behave from learned experience and enviroment, and the negative is from ignorance or just a retarded view in site. that it is merely their lesson along the path. i have absolutely no control or ability to assume their power, nor do it want it. theirs to do

on the other hand. i am watching a small segment of our society, a small handful of white males control and rule the world. i have listened to the limbaughs, hannity's and other white male repug, my brothers whine that they are the ones being discriminated against today. i feel that is so outlandishly absurd. but then i dont hold to the victim mode anyway. we create, each one of us.

i am also watching this small group in our nation dictate to gays what they are suppose to think and feel and be, and dictating to woman who they are, doing their thinking for them, and telling the blacks to remember there place

ultimately i hand the job to the fellow white males. they are the ones that have to heal their group. they are the ones that have to challenge their fellow brothers. a woman, black or gay wont be able to do it

just as it is the fellow christian that has to take on the christian right. impress upon them their walk in life isnt of christ. they are lost in darkness following bush

it is womans role to deal with the woman issue. only the fellow women can look another in the eye and tell them to buck up

so ultimately i give the power of being white male, to the white male

[last1standing]

27. I believe we all have a responsibility to everyone.

Regardless of ethnicity, sex, belief structure, or sexual orientation, we should look out for each other and work to make this a better world. I can't relegate any of that responsibility to another group. Would the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's have succeeded to the extent it did if white people hadn't joined with black people to demand change? I don't know, but I'm damned proud of everyone, black and white, who stood up against racism.

[seabeyond]

36. would there have even beena start if blacks didnt want more

again i will agree with you. all i can go off is my experience, as female. i tell hubby, me relaying to you and other males rape isnt nice wont do much. what will be effective is the males like my husband, sittin with his friends, hearing one of them brag about getting a girl drunk and fuckin her good. for these men sittin around to oppose this behavior. this will make him think twice about behavior

or, you have the males sittin in the locker room gigglin and patting each other on the back, giving support to said behavior, and a girl says, but it is wrong. what is more powerful

of course to have all together, with your example, blacks and whites and jews all standing together to fight bigotry.

but it couldnt happen without the blacks

women movement couldnt happen unless there were women that felt they were equals. and all women i have talked in their individual power, i have gotten thru, being a woman. not a man

white males have to be the ones to stand up and say eeeew to the abuse in power

christians have to stand up and say no people, we are not following spirituality in christ conscious, but in mans words. when you start hearing this in the group, they will start welcoming all to walk in there rally i assure you. but until they recognize, then it isnt going to do any good

human behavior

[last1standing]

43. I can see your point.

I still think it's up to everyone to stand up and fight all bigotry, but I agree that "groups" tend to listen more to those who are more like themselves. That doesn't, however, negate the responsibility of each person to fight prejudice wherever he/she finds it.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rppper]

37. so tell us how you really feel friend???

i see some keywords in your post that concern me as to your leanings. care to expound on them?

[seabeyond]

39. wow what a post

hm.

i also dont hate, and i dont beat myself up or anyone else. that doesnt accomplish much in healing evah.......all in my non perfection. guilt, nah. being aware, huge thumbs up. stop the waves of polarity of battle back and forth, to a stillness, where solution, peace can be found

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rppper]

46. everyone i know likes porn.......

true enough...it isnt an issue limited to black or white. personally i see it as appreciation of the human body and human sexuality. but there certainly are smarmy undercurrents in pornography...no denying that...and that too isnt limited by race or creed.

that being said, anglos and people of european decent have been ruling the world for thousands of years, sometimes quite tyrannicly. as european desendents, we have a "rich" history of suppressing those we see as different, be it people of brown skin or people we consider to be our lessors. one only needs to look at the crusades, the rise of the british empire, slavery and the killing of indigneous peoples in north america, the 3rd riech, the inquisitions...history is chock full of examples.

while i have never now nor will ever practice this, it is most certainly part of history. as we have advanced in society and critical thinking, we have become more and more tolerant...perhaps we see it as a way of making ammends for the sins of the father. i don't believe reparations to families of former slaves will fix anything either. throwing money at the issue is a band aid at best. working toward destroying predudices is the answer. i can help out in that aspect.

but there will always be the holdouts...the kkk, neo-cons, fascists, aryans, skins, red-necks, etc, etc who will hold on to those ideals of old...aka: the whinners and right wingers who scream reverse racism or quotas when the fail to land that juicey job, get that promotion or fail to get into the college of their choice. it is always easier to blame ones percieved enemies than to work to improve ones self.

[infusionman]

70. Kick

[forgethell]

50. Thousands of years

before and after your birth???

Where did you learn to count???

[thebigdonkey]

17. lol

The next thread is loaded with prejudice. The author is actually trying to say that pornography is almost exclusively purchased and used by white men as a way to exploit minorities.


What a nut. Here is how i work out the math.

All men look at porn.

there for

The % of a particular group of people that looks at porn is = to the number of men in that group.

[naryaquid]

18. I agree with you...and since you mention deriding Repubs with

the "derogatory slang for gay men"...I am also opposed to doing the same with the derogatory slang for WOMEN...like "slut" or being somebody's "bitch"
...As you say, let's work toward ending prejudice and racism for ALL people...and half of us are female.

[last1standing]

20. I should have mentioned that, myself.

Thanks for calling me on it. :)

[naryaquid]

22. you're very welcome...

and I appreciate your thoughtfulness ;-)

[tjdee]

23. No, it's okay to hate white *men*.

A very important distinction.

:silly:

[naryaquid]

30. ...You're kidding, right?

[tjdee]

33. Yes, which is why I had the "silly" emoticon there....

I was kidding!

[Bridget Burke]

25. Hit Alert on any posts you find offensive.

But it may be more fun to start a thread about being a victim.

[last1standing]

29. It's also possible to "Ignore" a thread or poster.

But it may be more fun to sling mud and ignore the intent of the post.

[tx_dem41]

31. Or to start a post that points out something that some people might...

not realize.

[Ian David]

26. I don't hate white people. I just hate ALL people

It's much easier that way.

It's not racist if you simply pre-judge EVERYONE as equally likely to be an asshole.

[Solon]

35. Feel the same way here...

I'm an EOH, Equal Opportunity Hater, everyone is an asshole till proven otherwise. :)

[jjtss]

48. Feelings

Sign me up for membership in the EOH Group. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.No one makes it to my good side unless they have a compatible and interesting personality, prove themselves nonthreatening and like my dogs!!! Why waste time in petty controversy and suffer more stress than we get from the Media and Govt???:D

[vas430]

32. Oh my God!!

That's kind of sick. Yes, OJ is guilt and Yes, Scott Peterson is guilty. It's not being racist, it's being MINIMALLY observant!

[ChairOne]

41. LOL - did you minimally observe them kill the respective victims?

Damn minimal observationsists....

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Many blacks believe that OJ is guilty

Including me.

[last1standing]

44. I'm reserving judgment on O.J. and Peterson as I didn't follow the cases.

But I think it's prejudice every time a pretty white woman is featured in a "news" story like this while average or non-white people are slain every day without so much as a word. It's rather like the way the media never mentions Iraqi civilian casualties.

I'm actively trying to think of a murder scandal involving a black female victim and I can't think of one. Maybe black women don't get killed by their spouses/lovers? </sarcasm>

[ChairOne]

45. Of course not - that's what the death penalty is for - duh! lol

[forgethell]

49. Are there racists on DU?

Damn straight! There is a lot of anti-white, anti-South, and anti-Christian bigotry here. There are also thoughtful people who are trying to make the world better. This differs from anywhere else exactly how??

[last1standing]

51. It differs in that this is supposed to be a forum of ideas...

and enlightenment. If we find prejudice or bigotry we should point it out. Would you suggest we remain silent?

[forgethell]

55. Not at all,

the racists should be pointed out, black and well as white. Bigotry is unacceptable. Other places, also are supposed to be "forums of ideas". What does that actually mean? Nothing! Racism is an idea, also. Ideas should be tested against reality. If they were, there would be a whole lot less BS on DU and elsewhere.

Unfortunately, many people like to weave fantastic visions of perfect social systems, presidenttial elections, human nature, etc. Then argue from them. But if the basic assumptions of their logical constructs are not valid, the whole construct is false. Progressives often are prone to this fault; I guess becasue of their intense desire to make the world a better place. there is nothing to fault with this desire; but their ideas should work, or be abandoned. Some of them do; some don't. Which is the reason for a lot of the BS, not just on DU, but everywhere.

And a whole lot of the BS has to do with race.

[last1standing]

59. It's hard to tell, but I think we agree... somewhat.

Are you saying that we can't beat back bigotry on this board? If so, I disagree with that portion. Other than that, I'd say we're in agreement.

[forgethell]

61. I don't know if

we can "beat it back", but I do think we are obliged to try.

[last1standing]

63. Then we're in complete agreement.

We won't know until we try. :)

[fedsron2us]

53. Hating people for their race or sex

is a bit like hating the sky for being blue. There is nothing that the victims can do to alter their status. Similarly, smearing a whole section of humanity for crimes committed by some of its past or present members, can be used to justify any type of atrocity. The Nazis were past masters at this tactic. Prejudice is an evil weed and can flourish in almost any surroundings even on the DU.

[Eloriel]

54. You know what?

The premise of your whole post could be summed up in the phrase "reverse racism."

It's my belief that if we are to call ourselves "progressives" it betrays our cause to actually regress into any form of prejudice or racism, and that includes hurtful and insensitive statements about white people.

There is no such thing, though there is bigotry. And I for one am not the least bit concerned about anti-white bigotry. Not the least. If/when we solve racism, then I can turn my attention to anti-white bigotry.

Furthermore, the ONLY people I know of who ARE concerned about reverse racism are racists, basically, and perhaps a few (mighty few) of those who don't think past the end of their nose and follow the racists' arguments about the horrors, sins, dangers of "reverse racism" and how it needs to be fought.

It's not just unfair, IMO, it's delusional AND insulting to expect oppressed classes to take their oppression with a smile. In fact, the very suggestion fills me with rage.

I'll provide an analogy: the only people who decry "class warfare" are IN the class warfaring against the rest of us. They too want us to take THEIR class warfare with a smile, preferrably not even noticing but IF noticing, deciding not to makes waves for TPTB, the very ones waging class warfare.

Claims of reverse racism are precisely the same.

[last1standing]

57. I'm sorry to cause you rage, but I still disagree with what you've said.

Your premise sets up separate rules for different groups of people. The only thing this will cause is more intolerance and hatred. In fact, I think to say that "minorities" are not subject to the same laws of civility as white people is to be patronizing and not helpful at all.

As for class warfare, I welcome it and am waiting for the day when the majority realizes the real meaning of the term.

It's a shame, I usually agree with everything you post. Oh well, nothing is a hundred percent.

[chaska]

60. Sure, I hate white people...

but I ain't prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.

[philosophie_en_rose]

65. Just like DUers "hate" America, right?

The fact is that this country has a long history of white supremacy, slavery, and segregation. White people made "whiteness" an issue and changing our language or being "colorblind" is choosing to be ignorant to the effects of historical, systematic injustice.

Example: Chris Rock likes to use the term "honky." Just like Sherman Helmsley on the Jeffersons. It would be wrong to throw those terms around on the threads here and the humor in the original forms is debatable. However, it can't compare to underfunded inner city schools, employment discrimination, harassment, and so much more.

A different example of the same principle is the written war between freepers and DUers. I'm sure that it's a noble goal to end political divisions, to be "united, not divided." However, the actual implication there is for us to get over "it." It, in this case, is the lying, cheating, murderous administration. In the face of such wrong mindedness, it's not wrong to confront the issues - as unpleasant as it would be for a freeper to be told that their heroes are wrong and their perceptions deficient.

So do I "hate" white people, because I'm concerned about the effects of things that white people have created? No. Does it mean that white people are to blame for everything? Of course not. However, it's sad to think that there are people in the world that equate slights on a website with enslavement of entire peoples.

[last1standing]

66. You've managed to ignore almost my entire post....

And then rant about the history of white oppressors. While in the past and present this has been true of a great many white people, it is not the case with every white person or even most of them. To judge all of us by the acts of another "minority" is to commit the same acts of bigotry as you decry.

I hate the acts of the white supremacist, slave traders, and segregationists just as you do, but I will not condemn all white people to suffer for the acts of a subgroup. Do you condemn all black people for the acts of Idi Amin and his army? I hope not.

And, yes, I support a society of equals who don't give a damn about color. I'm surprised that you don't.

[Kipepeo]

68. I thought she was responding to your post on target

Why are you implying that she is condemning all white people? I see nothing of what you are ranting against in her post. I think you are trying to make an issue out of nothing....just my opinion. But the thread title alone is enough to make me laugh. One dude says anyone who doesn't like OJ is a racist (that's plain silly) and you ask (seriously?) if it's okay to hate white people on DU. Please.

[last1standing]

73. I've reread my reply and think it's accurate.

You, however, have taken a serious post and are intentionally slighting the message. Why?

I made an example of two posters on DU who felt it was alright to post prejudiced remarks. You then reply to my post trying to mock the messenger. Why?

Anyway, thanks for your response.

[last1standing]

67. As a followup now that so many have responded....

I'm glad to see that most here are against prejudice of others whether they are black, white, Hispanic, gay, or female. There seem to be a few disappointing holdouts, but there will always be a minority who think that it's alright to hate other groups.

As a challenge, when reading posts over the next few days, keep an eye out for statements that point out someone's color without having a valid reason for pointing it out. Ask yourself why a poster has to call a woman a "bitch" or "whore" just because they don't like that person's stance on issues. When you see someone call repubs "gay" or otherwise point to their sexuality merely to disparage them, question it in your mind. Then when you see any of these things, question the poster in a non-hateful manner and see how they respond. Hopefully, more people will see how their remarks affect others.

Maybe it makes me naive to think that this could make DU an even better forum, but I'd rather be a naive liberal than a cynical conservative any day of the week.

[infusionman]

69. You have enough problems within your own race to settle first.

Respectfully, people who call themselves the very word they would kill another person for would be a good place to start.

[last1standing]

72. Can you expand on that?

I really can't tell what you're trying to say.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Educated guess

I think the previous poster is assuming you are African-American. His message seems to reference Blacks calling one another "nigga." To me, that is a totally different issue. It is one of language and in-group solidarity....but that is another thread all together.

As for your question, I don't think it is OK to hate any group. If one choses to hate an individual, that is their issue, unless they do something to harm the person they hate. I have seen very little bigotry here directed at whites. There are more attacks directed at gays and women here, than any other group! There have been a few attacks on Christians, other religious/spiritual types, and fewer on atheists and agnostics. All in all, this place is not too bad, but every now and again, the prejudices people have creep out in their posts, and this includes long-time DU'ers! I feel that many people think these "attacks" are run-by attacks from freepers, but I have seen some pretty hateful remarks coming from long-time members.

This party has a long way to go, and since this is a cross section of the Democrat party, it is not too surprising that there are some pretty bigoted remarks made here. Still, I enjoy coming here. :)

[Swamp Rat]

75. I FUCKING HATE THEM!!!...

Alien lizards that is. :D

[anarchy1999]

76. What an outrageous post! "Is it okay to hate white people here"?

DU is not white, black, brown or yellow, green or any other color as far as I knew until you alerted me. This is an outrageous, offensive post and we've been here a few years, (probably the most offensive I've seen yet and there have been a few through the years).

Is it okay to hate white people here?

How do the rest of you feel? I think this thread needs to die right now.

[vetwife]

77. Hi Anarchy ! Yep needs to die..We are supposed to be inclusive ..

What has happened here? Its not right to hate period !
Some of these threads are making the site look foolish. Sorry folks...Stuff like Assassinations...That is great for not alerting Secret Service.(sarcasm off) Good Grief ! Not only that, I don't want anyone to die...Maybe some need to take time off for a little anger management.

For what purpose does all of this hatred serve? You think anyone wants to listen to people talking this way? You don't have to like people but my goodness this is not the way..right or left that represents the way I feel !

[Moderator]

78. Locking

Inflammatory and flame bait

Du Moderator