Which does the current US remind you more of? Early Nazi Germany or

[RUDUing2]

Early Stalinist Russia?

TBH I see more similarities to early Stalinist Russia...At the beginning it wasn't bad..started getting bad little by little..a few more liberties being taken away here and there..anyone who disagreed was painted as unpatriotic..no such thing as dissident, just as traitors...then they started taking people in for *questioning* if they didn't toe the *official* line...and they were sent to special places (aka siberia/QB)...then the USSR started invading surrounding countries to force them into the proper form of government (the one that they should all want anyway, cause it was the best form of govt...)...and somehow the *people* didn't view the leader of the country as being behind the things being done (torture, etc)..he was held blameless as a *good* man...and if they could just let him know what was being done, then of course he would put a stop to it...

Sound familiar to anyone else?

[Wat_Tyler]

1. I think early Nazi Germany.

Before all the big drum solos and ten minute songs about hobbits.

[Worst Username Ever]

2. germany n/t

[Shopaholic]

3. I had the opportunity to read Maureen Farrell's excellent

column recently that compared Hitler's rhetoric to that of the *. It's chilling. Here's the link for those of you who haven't seen it yet. It's a must-read! http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/12/far04041.html

[RUDUing2]

6. this is what I am meaning..

http://www.davidcogswell.com/MediaRoulette/MoveOnBushHitler.html
Comparisons between Bush's policies and methods and those of Hitler's yield many striking similarities. Bush is more like Hitler than any American president, and more than most other leaders in history.

He attacked another country that posed no threat to the U.S. based on false pretenses. That's an enormous outrage, and precisely what Hitler did many times over. Bush has no respect for the truth, for the law. He has tried to establish his own will as the law of the land. Many thousands have died violent deaths as a result of his lies and his aggression. He has moved the country in the direction of a dictatorship of major corporations, suppressing liberal democracy at every turn. There isn't time to begin to list all the ways Bush is like Hitler, it's an ongoing, daily job.

True, Bush may not have risen to the level of Hitler in his destructiveness, in the damage he has caused. But Bush is still active, still in power. His story is not over. Hitler was snuffed out half a century ago and no longer poses a threat. Bush, on the other hand, could still exceed Hitler. He could. I hate to think that he will. But he could. There is little in his character or his behavior up to now that indicates he will suddenly restrain himself. And if he doesn't, he could certainly rival Hitler. He has a great deal more destructive power under his belt than Hitler ever did. He is squandering it, however, like Hitler did through his insatiable lust for power.

Perhaps a more apt comparison will in the end be Stalin. Stalin, vicious as he was, was cunning enough to moderate himself and therefore stayed in power much longer and was able to wreak much more violence, murder and oppression in the long run than Hitler could in his short, fiery reign.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Early Nazi Germany, primarily due to the "We are the chosen by God"

"Christian" attitude. The Communists were anti-religion.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Same thought here

If given a choice between the two, I think early Nazi Germany is closer because of the use of religion. In Russia, religion was one of the first "things" to go or slowed. Both examples show us what will happen if we do not stand up and hold people accontable..starting with the asshole in the WH and his cronies!

[Inland]

5. NG. Corporatist government, nationalism to control the people

self congratulatory messages on our superiority and basic goodness despite all evidence to the contrary, relatedly a morality that makes an act good or evil depending on who commits it, a hostile world in control of resources we need for OUR destiny, cult of personality, enemies internally, and a feeling that democracy and individual rights undercut the greatness of the nation.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. I see more resemblance to some of the Latin American dictatorships

Stalin tried to remake the entire society from top to bottom by force and instantly. No one, not even the dimmest Russian, could avoid realizing that nothing would ever be the same. People could get dragged off to the gulag for any reason or no reason, even for trivial offenses.

A Stalinist America would ban private ownership, collectivize everything, put the economy on a command basis, ban all entertainment that didn't serve the state, and round up random people along with the dissidents, just to make sure everyone was properly cowed.

The Latin American dictators in places like Argentina and Uruguay let life go on pretty normally, with mass entertainment and shopping and corporate business functioning freely. As long as you were a good apathetic little citizen and didn't question the government, you barely noticed that you were under a dictatorship. The Latin American dictators were ruthless to dissidents (the Argentine government killed 30,000), but people who kept their heads down were not harmed.

I see the Busheviks as being more like the latter type of dictator. Your average apathetic Middle American will still be allowed to go to the mall, work in an office park, shop at WalMart, and consume mass-produced entertainment. It's only those who don't fit the mold who will be in trouble. The masses won't even notice.

[tigereye]

13. sounds a bit like the Matrix as well

good analysis as usual LL

[RUDUing2]

14. I watched a two hour special on the history channel about Stalin..

that was my perception of him and his reign as well..but turns out that he started quietly and slowly..at first he worked to convince people that basically *good was bad*..like Bush is doing..then that dissent was traitorism and that you should report anti-soviet behavior to the authorities, even on your friends..then they kept list..he slowly moved to total control as Lenin had been dead for longer amount of time..but somehow even while he was at his worst..even the people who had been sent to Siberia believed that he was not at fault..he was the *beloved father*..they would write him letters from siberia to let him know what was occurring because they thought he was unaware of it..that it was evil minions under him doing things w/out his knowledge that he would never approve of if he knew..then as his power became more total and complete he moved into the behavior we all associate w/him..but he wasn't like that the first few years..he was very much like the Bush administration...(btw his pretense for taking totalitarian control and for invading other countries was to keep the USSR in a state of high alert based on suspected assaults being planned, etc)

[paulk]

24. I agree...

and don't forget - the CIA has a long history of interference in that part of the world. I'm sure the Bush family, with Poppy's CIA connections, feel very comfortable with the Latin/South American model of "Banana Republic Dictatorship".

[FM Arouet666]

8. Germany. Corporatism and conservative social "values". n/t

[lumpy]

9. Some 'conservatives' have

advocated setting up Muslim concentration camps. Neofascist Americans would applaud such an idea.

[RBHam]

10. Stealth Nazis In The Governmnet.....

In both parties and under the thumb of the Military Industrial Complex...

And if you make it that far as an elected representative of the people, deluding yourself into thinking you can make a difference, and if you can't be trusted to comply with the program that has already been initialized...

You're a dead man walking...

RIP Paul Wellstone...

[JunkYardDogg]

12. Nazi Germany

Roots:
Nazis-Developed out of a Regressive Economy-the Depression
Dominionists-U.S. Regressive Economy
Foundation:
Nazis-Based on a Purity of the Zuper Race
Dominionists-Purity of their Christian Zuper God
Hatred focused on:
Nazis-Jews
Dominionists- Homosexuals, Jews, Non Believers and Humanists
Catalyst to Gain Power: FEAR
Nazis- Reichstag
Dominionists- 1st- 9/11 -then the questionable Anthrax Attack on extremely carefully chosen targets with U.S. military biowarfare
developed weapons grade Anthrax.
GOALS-
Nazis- purify the Population with superior Zuper Race Genes
Dominionists-Purify the Culture with their Zuper God
Cleansing the Population-Both
Total Intolerance of anything outside of their "Value" Systems
All their acts against Humanity and Liberty and Freedom Legally
authorized by their laws

[Taxloss]

15. I wouldn't describe civil war and terror famines as "not bad"

Things in Russia were lousy before the revolution, and lousy after the revolution. From the word go.

[RUDUing2]

16. not meaning the situation..meaning how Stalin presented himself and

how he manipulated the people to make them believe his hands were clean..and how he used basically *terror levels* to justify his behavior both on a national and an international level..how he perverted what the *ideals* of Lenin were and turned them into something unrecognizable..like what Bush is doing w/american *ideals*....

[Taxloss]

17. Lenin was fairly oppressive himself ...

... certainly no angel. An unscrupulous, cunning and often cruel leader, was Vlad.

[RUDUing2]

18. true..but eveyone knew he was...he was the Karl Rove equiv...

[Taxloss]

31. He would have been every bit as terrible as Stalin, given the time

But he was, at least, on speaking terms with sanity. Stalin was totally nuts.

[txaslftist]

19. 1950s McCarthyism seems closer to me.

[GOPBasher]

20. Nazi Germany.

[Lerkfish]

21. I don't consider this a SLOW regression of liberties...I say NAZI parallel

RUDUing2 keeps saying thesimilarities with Stalin are due to how slow the progression of stalinism is, but honestly, in just 4 years look how much civil liberties have been eroded under bush, and he's working like blazes since the election to accelerate that process.
I don't consider that slow...I consider that ALARMINGLY quick, almost as if there is a looming deadline he has to meet.

I consider the current situation more like Nazi Germany for the following reasons:

1. an ever-increasing intolerance of minority groups (gays, etc.)
2. a demonization of any domestic opposition (making "libruls" be equal to "traitor")
3. a subsuming of all branches of govt. under a central control
4. use of intelligence forces against own citizens to root out dissent.
5. Arrogant belief that preemptive occupation is in the national interest.
6. A plan to overtake an entire region (in WWII, it was europe, africa, etc.--the neocon agenda STARTS with the middle east)
7. having a ruthless propaganda minister to lie to the public and manipulate elections (Goebbels=Rove)
8. The Riechstag fire = 9/11
9. massive bombing campaigns with no concern for citizens or property
10. The coopting of "Christianity" as an excuse and a justification for leadership excesses
11. An acceptance of torture and abuse of prisoners as justified. (Auschwitz and Mengele=Guantanamo and ABu Ghraib)
12. Considering enemies as less than human and therefore undeserving of humane treatment (see #11)
13. Empty patriotic rhetoric engineered to ostracize noncomformists and glorify brutish acts.
14. Elitism and racial, ethnic or religious "purity" seen as ideals that justify the removal of personal liberties of those "not like us".
15. Self-destructive govt. structure and policies that doesn't look at long term economic health.
16. Waging war with inadequate resources, ending up by drafting older and younger soldiers out of desperation.
17. Censorship and the elimination of independent thought seen as worthy efforts.
18. Cavalier and mistrustful attitudes towards the rest of the world.
19. Bankrupting the economy to fund war actions.
20. Seeking new and highly destructive technologies to implement a military advantage and superiority (Hitler's nuclear program and Bush's "missile shield")


and last but not least, the Bush Family has DIRECT ties to the nazis, so making the comparison is NOT that out of hand.

[JunkYardDogg]

27. Rove isn't the Propaganda Minister- Nowadays it's the MSM

Reichstag was done by the Nazis themselves
9/11 -The BushReich lucked out by the Acts of Bin Laden-without
Bin Laden, the Bush Reich would be nothing-that's why Bin Laden
will NEVER be captured by the BushReich
Anthrax "Attack"-Guess who really did this-Who gained the most from
the level of Fear generated by this
Those who ignore History are doomed to repeat it

[LynnTheDem]

22. Nazi Germany

"Christian nations"

"God is with us"

"terra terra terra"

Blindly follow Dear Leader.

UNPROVOKED INVASIONS AND OCCUPATIONS of nation(s) that had NOT THREATENED us, NOT ATTACKED us, had been DOING NOTHING TO ANYONE.

HEIL, BUSHLER!

[mandyky]

23. George Orwell's 1984

Some days I wonder if I haven't gone crazy. Other days I wonder if it is not everyone else who has gone nutso!

If it weren't for DU and the blogs, I think I would be nuts by now. The final straw for me was the MSM's drumbeat to Iraq, and I just unplugged from MSM and turned to the WWW for the truth.

[Lerkfish]

25. amen.

WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

[bpilgrim]

26. our policies for bringing PEACE, PROSPERITY, and SECURITY to the ME

reminds me of imperial japan's plans for asia called GEACPS similar to PNAC but less ambitious.

they had illegal combatants, torture, military tribunals, permanent detentions and fallujah reminds me a great deal of NANKING.

peace

[TankLV]

28. Straignt-out I'd have to say Germany - almost play-by-play in exactly the

same order.

I'm not as familiar with the course of Stalinist Russia.

What I believe and fear is that we are creating a wholly new animal, that in future years, will eclipse anything that Hitler and Stalin were able to "accomplish".

Borrowing a little from here, a little from there, add all that current technology has to offer, and violla! - We are creating a totally new american monster!

[imabadman]

29. Neither

It’s a very long and arduous process with respect to getting anything done. Fortunately, if you think about it, things really haven’t changed all that much in the past four years (or the past eight or twelve years either).

Gridlock is my friend :)

[TankLV]

30. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh - you were SERIOUS?!?!

"Things haven't changed all that much in the past four years"?!?!

"Gridlock" - with ALL branches and departments of government under control of the repukes?!?!?!

Time to get your head out of your ass and look around honey!

[imabadman]

32. Yes, I am serious.

and while the GOPers may control all branches of the govt, if I recall the Senate Dems had quite a bit to say about that.

So, I think it is thee who has one's head in the sand. Or perhaps you are just a chronic pessimist.

As for me, I believe in making the most of the hand I am dealt.

Lighten up, darlin’ :) You have more control over you than they have.

[Lerkfish]

34. serious, but deluded, no offense.

there is no gridlock.

[imabadman]

37. Ah, I see...

another chronic pessimist who lets the COP control their lives. No offence.

[Lerkfish]

38. And your proof of gridlock is........?

You are relying on something that does not exist.
I see that a republican majority in both houses eliminates gridlock.....and that makes me a pessimist? No, no, I'm a realist.

[imabadman]

39. My proof of gridlock lies in the fact that...

in the Senate, it takes 60 votes to get a bill to the floor for a vote. As I am sure you are aware, this action thwarted several judicial nominations and led to many concessions from the majority party on other issues.

Is this the ideal situation to be in? No.

Is it the end of the world? No, I have life to live and refuse to let a few misguided politicians have an affect on that.

So, I’m a realist too. I just happen to make a pretty decent batch of lemonade.

[Lerkfish]

40. ..ok, but only if you can call everyone else's lemonade sour does

your own taste sweet to you.

good luck with that.

:toast:

[George_S]

33. Left "moral values" + right "moral values" = Fascism

It doesn't make any difference which way it turns. Stalinist or Hitler.

The result will be the same.

[StephanieMarie]

35. My daughter says it reminds her of the final corrupt days of Rome. n/t

[AngryAmish]

36. Bush is Hitler