GERMAN EYED AS NEXT POPE

[emad]

New York Post Online
By DAN MANGAN

January 3, 2005 -- A hard-nosed German cardinal known as the "Panzerkardinal" has re-emerged as a front-runner to become the next pope, according to a new report.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, whose role of point man for Pope John Paul II's conservative moral policy has made him a target of liberal Catholics, had been considered out of the running to succeed the pontiff because of his views and blunt manner.

But sources in Rome quoted by Time magazine say that the 77-year-old Ratzinger now is among the top contenders.

"The Ratzinger solution is definitely on," said a Vatican insider quoted by Time, which noted that the speculation is occurring despite there being no indications that John Paul's health has worsened.

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/37675.htm

[JVS]

1. He seems a bit old

[AllegroRondo]

3. I heard they were looking for an older pope next

as a kind of short term 'intirim' pope to ease the way to a more liberal pope afterwards.

[JVS]

6. If Ratzinger is to ease the way for anything it will be easing the way for

increasingly conservative popes.

On edit: wait by more liberal do you mean more liberal than JPII or more liberal than Ratzinger?

[AllegroRondo]

14. More liberal than JP2

At least thats how I've heard it discussed.

There are large parts of the catholic church that are upset with JP2s stand on no birth control, especially with the AIDS epidemic. The idea is for the next pope to be someone who may not live long, and who would be content to let things stand as they are, so the pope after him could swing the other way.

[AngryOldDem]

19. Vatican is trending toward more conservatives...

...the pendulum from Vatican II is currently swinging back to the right...hence the high visibility and some say influence of such groups as Opus Dei.

But...I think we all know what happened the last time a "caretaker" Pope was elected. Personally, I hope the exact same thing happens if such a pontiff succeeds JPII.

[ashmanonar]

22. 80 is the cutoff. n/t

[soothsayer]

2. Pope Rat. Nice.

[JVS]

4. You know, I don't get the public view of John Paul II at all!

Back in the 80's and early 90's everyone seemed to think he was awesome. Even my liberal parents who are not Catholic thought he was one of the best popes they'd seen (not as good as John XXIII, but who is?) People saluted him for speaking out against oppressive governments from Eastern Europe to South Africa and South America. He reached out to mend relations with Jews and Muslims.

Now everyone is saying that the Pope has a conservative social agenda. People are pissed off and look forward to a new liberal pope. What the hell's the deal, did JPII flip-flop and turn right-wing or are people just discontent?

[Canuckistanian]

13. JPII was always a conservative

But he was (relatively) young, very active and very inclusive of other peoples and cultures and so was perceived as a more "liberal" pope.
Behind closed doors he was right in with the more agressively doctrinistic and conservative elements in the church.

If he had been pope during John XXII's reign, there probably wouldn't have been a Vatican II with its sweeping reforms.

No, this conservatism on his part is not a transformation but rather an unmasking.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. I dunno. I have a hunch it won't be Ratzinger.

If only because he is the obvious frontrunner. Cardinals can't be seen to be campaigning, or appear to be too ambitious.

There's a wonderful account of the election of a Pope in David Yallop's In God's Name. (An important book I know you've read, emad.) Cardinal Luciano Albini was not a contender when he entered the conclave, and neither was he seeking nor expecting to be elevated. But events overtook expectations, and surprise: he's Pope John Paul I.

[tjwmason]

10. There's a saying

He who enters the conclave a Pope, leaves it a Cardinal.

I suspect that card. Ratzinger will be more of a kingmaker. There are plenty of other conservatives who can get voted in. That said, they will be looking for an older guy, most think that J.P.II has had an overlong stretch and they want a short one next.

[emad]

12. Another good account is in Piers Compton's "The Broken Cross"

which lays bare the procedural technicalities that the P2 Lodge introduced into the College of Cardinals' decision making.

Compton discusses Albini's stance over scandals involving France's Cardinal Villot and Italy's Cardinals Cassaroli and Benelli.

His implication is that Albini's position was then made untenable by the Gelli family (Licio G currently in the dock in Rome along with Flavio Carboni over Roberto Calvi's 1982 murder) because neither the CIA nor the UK's security/intelligence agencies were in a position to arrest the East German KGB spymaster Markus Wolf for his involvement in corruption within the Vatican.

Some commentators have alleged that Wolf was in reality a member of the Gelli family.

Albini died mysteriously after 30 days in office. A post mortem was barred by the Curia.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Markus Wolf? I had no idea. There's a December report

that the old Stasi chief has been taken on by Homeland Security:


...

On a radio appearance earlier today Martin stated that the admission that Wolf would be hired was made in a BBC radio interview given by the former head of the KGB, General Yevgeni Primakov.

Martin had previously reported that Primakov had been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security to implement CAPPS II and the national iD card system which he dubbed an 'internal passport'.

Sources close to Martin have told Alex Jones confidentially that the appointment of Wolf was also confirmed by a US Congressman.

During his radio interview, Martin outlined the immediate agenda. The remaining portions of the 9/11 Commission intelligence reccomendations which include the introduction of a national ID card would be passed and subsequently 'Patriot Act 3,' which would include the formal establishment of a Stasi-like domestic spying organisation which would be similar in scope to the TIPS program.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2004/061204wolfhired.htm

[emad]

17. Wolf, Gelli, Poppy:

Either cynical rhinoplasty connection for #1 and #3 above, or something else....like DNA?

[demwing]

7. Ratzinger is the Church's Version of the NeoCon

It was he, IIRC, that called for John Kerry to be refused Communion. He also has a fan club, of all things, and they keep a website here:

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/

I've yet to clarify whether this is a parady site or not. I'm hoping so...

Here's a short quote from the site:

"Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger is head of the Catholic Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, whose mission is to 'promote and safeguard the doctrine on the faith and morals throughout the Catholic world' (John Paul II)."


"As Grand Inquisitor for Mother Rome, Ratzinger keeps himself busy in service to the Truth: correcting theological error, silencing dissenting theologians, and stomping down heresy wherever it may rear its ugly head -- and, consequently, has received somewhat of a notorious reputation among the liberal media and 'enlightened' intellegensia of pseudo-Catholic universities."

"However, there are those among us who have delved beyond the polemics of his critics, who in familiarizing ourselves with his works have come to admire him both as brilliant Catholic theologian but also as a man whose faith, honesty, integrity, and unswerving devotion to the Truth is readily apparent."

BTW - for those who are counting, I believe it was St Malachy who predicted the number of remaining Popes before the world came to an end.

After the current Pope (john Paul II), there are only two Popes left.

Tick Tock Tick Tock.....

[demwing]

9. Gloria Olivae

St Malachy's prophesy nicknames our next Pope "The Glory of the Olives."

Based on that, I'd have to say that the best chance for future Popehood goes to Cardinal Martini of Milan.

Who else but a Martini would be the glory of the Olives?

[RUDUing2]

8. wont happen..he is too controversial...tbh Ratz has been the Pope for the

last half a dozen or so years anyway..JPII is in name but that is all...but Ratz makes all the decisions..and that is why JPII has not resigned due to poor health.

I fully expect that the next Pope will be more conservative then JPII was, but don't think he will be as ultra-conservative as Ratz..

a good article (an official catholic one) explains the process and gives some clues as to who are under consideration..

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/documents/popeweb1.htm
Conservatives have, by wide margin, the votes to choose the next pope. So on the surface it appears unlikely the most internationally acclaimed Italian cardinal, the open-minded, 72-year-old Jesuit Archbishop of Milan, Carlo Maria Martini, will be considered seriously. Curiously, however, while few church observers in Rome today don’t see a “progressive” pope in the wings, many cardinals might be ready to elect a man who would offer a vision of renewed episcopal collegiality. There appears to be a consensus among many in the church hierarchy that local archbishops have been stripped of rightful authority by a heavy-handed Roman curia. Resentment abounds.

For the same reason do not expect the next pope to emerge out of the Roman Curia. While undeniably powerful and certain to play critical roles in the decision process, curial members do not have the votes alone to elect one from their own ranks. Left on the list are four possible papal contenders. Giacomo Biffi, 71, Giovanni Saldarini, 74, Silvano Piovanelli, 75, and Marco Cé, 74.

Biffi, archbishop of Bologna, is the most conservative of the lot. He is a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith and it is said he opposes the use of Mozart music at Mass, allegedly because the artist was a Mason. Maybe too conservative. Saldarini, archbishop of Turin, has distinguished himself for his devotion to the shroud; not well known enough.

This leaves two men, both known for their pastoral abilities. Piovanelli, archbishop of Florence, spent years as a parish priest. That could help him. Cé, the Patriarch of Venice, has been a seminary director, has taught dogmatic theology and was the church’s chief advisor to Catholic Action. He followed Albino Luciani of Venice when Luciani was elected Pope John Paul I. Luciani was not the only pope this century to emerge from Venice. Pius X was patriarch of Venice when he was elected in 1903 and Angelo Roncalli, of Venice, became Pope John XXIII, a reminder that a pastoral-minded Italian could very well turn the church on its head.

[anarchy1999]

11. More than you want to know.

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/

Vatican Assassins:"Wounded In The House Of My Friends":

For ordering contact:

Wisdom Books
9101 West Sahara Avenue
PMB 158
Las Vegas, NV 89117
1-877-280-2866 or 661-823-9696
www.thespectrumnews.org

Veritech is a Bible-believing research trust dedicated to the propagation of the truth
in every science and service of man. It is supported by the prayers, gifts and loans of
those who believe the English Bible of the Protestant Reformation

- The Authorized King James Version of 1611 -

having been faithfully translated by the forty-seven learned and godly men from

The Hebrew Masoretic Text and Greek Textus Receptus,

to be the final authority of faith and practice and believe America should be governed
by Americans loyal to the Constitution and Bill of Rights as originally intended
by our White, Calvinistic, Protestant and Baptist framers.



http://www.vaticanassassins.org

For further information regarding the evil power of the Company of Jesus,
you may view the website of the late ex-Jesuit and one of our heroes,

Dr. Alberto Rivera
www.albertoaic.com

Other websites of interest are:
www.reformation.org
www.freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com
www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm
www.proparanoid.com/priorknowledge.htm
www.trance-formation.com
www.copvcia.com
www.rense.com

[emad]

15. 'Asian Pope is a possibility'

November 24, 2004 10:44 IST


An Asian Pope cannot be ruled out, Cardinal Telesphore Placidus Toppo, the first tribal in Asia to be included in the College of Cardinals that elects the Pope, said in Kolkata on Wednesday.

"The way things are moving, the Church has reached a stage where it may not be impossible to have a non-European or even an Asian Pope," Cardinal Toppo, who is also the Archbishop of Ranchi, said in an interview.

But Toppo, who as a cardinal is eligible to be a candidate for the papacy, declined to comment on whether an Asian will succeed Pope John Paul II as head of the Roman Catholic Church.

"There is no use speculating. The papal election is guided by the Holy Spirit." To elect a Pope, cardinals from all over the world meet at the Vatican for a week-long conclave, when they remain closeted in prayer and meditation before creating a panel of candidates.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/24pope.htm

Edit:
January 04, 2004
Pope Calls UN Outdated
This may not be as glorious as it sounds, but the Pope issued some bold statements about the UN on what is called the Vatican's World Peace Day (Jan 1). I finally got around to reading the statements and find it intriguing.

It seems the Pope acknowledges that America is responsible for effectively rendering the UN impotent, yet in his derision of America's circumventing of established internations norms during the War in Iraq, the Pope does seem to admit a glint of hope that it took this US defiance to break down the ineffective wall. Were the pope Chinese, he might more appropriately call the UN a paper tiger.

But the central issue, seen from the Vatican's point of view, is the growing irrelevance of a painstakingly constructed body of international law that is being ignored by the US Administration during its "war on terror".
The Pope acknowledged that current international law is ill-suited to dealing with rebels or terrorists and called for new treaties and reform of the UN. (source)

http://www.slantpoint.com/mt-arx/2004/01/pope_calls_un_outdated.php

[AngryOldDem]

18. My money is still on Arinze

The Church is strongest in the Third World; Ratzinger is too much of a "company man," I think (been around too long in the bureaucracy) to be seriously considered.

[RUDUing2]

20. I think Marco Ce has a good shot.

[AngryOldDem]

21. Perhaps ---

But Ratzinger? A very long shot, at best.

[RUDUing2]

25. I agree..and tbh I dont think Ratz wants to be an official pope...

I mean he has been the real pope as far as decision making etc goes for the last 5 or so years anyway..

[SheepyMcSheepster]

23. can popes "retire"?

i am just curious if anyone can tell about the rules of being a pope? is the appointment for life? even if you can no longer really function as a pope?

my understanding is the pope has to die to be done being pope.

any ideas?

[RUDUing2]

27. yes the Pope can step down..but is a very rare occurrance..

A papal abdication is rare. There have only been six between 304 A.D. and 1415 A.D. The most recent, Gregory XII, resigned during the Great Western Schism in order to clear up multiple claims to the papacy.
Although no church officials have called for him to step down, at least two bishops have vaguely suggested that he would if he could not continue his ministry. http://www.detnews.com/2002/religion/0207/29/a04-545692.htm

[SheepyMcSheepster]

28. thanks for the reply

:D

now i know.

[Cuban_Liberal]

24. It'll be a Latino, y'all.

:)

[RUDUing2]

26. more possible successors..

Possible successors

In theory, any practicing Roman Catholic man can be selected pope. But for centuries, the pope has been chosen from within the Sacred College of Cardinals.
The most frequently mentioned among possible successors are:
* Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, 75, is considered brilliant, a renowned scholar and is fluent in 11 languages. He is outspoken, a Jesuit and a liberal inclined toward reform. Formerly archbishop of Milan.
* Cardinal Francis Arinze, 69, a conservative Vatican official from Eziowelle, Nigeria, 400 miles east of Lagos. He is a Vatican insider, close to the pope and would be the first black pope since 496.
*Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, 72, is head of the Congregation for Clergy from Columbia, and a human-rights advocate who works with the poor. At 72, he is the oldest of four Latin American cardinals in the Vatican.
* Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, 68, was this month promoted to archbishop of Milan, a move some believe was made to put the conservative moral theologian in line for the papacy.
* Cardinal Godfried Danneels, 68, is archbishop of Belgium's largest diocese. Described as a resolute moderate, he has said he would consider ending the priestly obligation of celibacy, if marriage would encourage more men to take vows.
* Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiago of Honduras, has accused much of the U.S. media of being anti-Catholic and of persecuting the church in its coverage of sex abuse.
http://www.detnews.com/2002/religion/0207/29/a04-545692.htm

[emad]

29. & howabout a successor from the State of Texas Your Holiness?

http://prorev.com/!pope.jpg

[RUDUing2]

30. my copy of this pic says "oh shit he is even stupider then I thought!"

[emad]

31. Gets my vote too.....

[CatholicEug]

32. Cardinal Ratzinger is brilliant

Having read much of his analysis of Vat. II, I can say with confidence that the man has a brilliant mind. He's Augustinian in nature, tends towards "ressourcement," (renewal at the source), embraces a christocentric humanism. If there was ever a power behind JPII's throne, he would be it.

That being said, I would be surprised if Cardinal Ratzinger got the nod. After the lengthy reign of JPII, I tend to think the College of Cardinals would elect someone who wouldn't be around very long ... a palate cleanser, so to speak. An Italian seems the logical choice.