seriously - WTF is the deal with the south?

[fryguy]

Snipers on the rooftop in Georgia? Wonder what the repukes have planned for January 20 in order to "maintain integrity"?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/04/sheriff.firings.ap/index.html

Sheriff posts snipers after firing 27 workers

JONESBORO, Georgia (AP) -- On his first day on the job, the new sheriff called 27 employees into his office, stripped them of their badges, fired them, and had rooftop snipers stand guard as they were escorted out the door.

The move Monday by Clayton County Sheriff Victor Hill provoked an angry reaction and prompted a judge to order him to rehire the employees.

"It appears ... that employees of the Sheriff were terminated without cause" and in violation of the county's civil service rules, Judge Stephen Boswell wrote in granting a 30-day restraining order.

Hill, 39, defended the firings and said the new sheriff has the right to shake up the department in whatever way he feels necessary. He told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he fired the employees to "maintain the integrity of the department."

<more>

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Psephos]

6. I'm not a church person, but this shit has nothing to do with Jesus n/t

[gorbal]

7. Don't go dissing the whole south now

Go watch "Big Fish" and "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" and reflect a little.

[tuvor]

10. Cut it out. Jesus has nothing to do with "Jesusland".

What's wrong with "Dumbfuckistan," anyway?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YDogg]

9. Don't you mean ...

... "all y'all assholes who generalize?" :P

[Wind Dancer]

11. Excellent question! n/t

[0007]

22. Don't they have a right to their opinion like the daddies and those

Southern Democratic gentleman?

[chomskysright]

3. Clayton county is full of dumb asses....

believe me I know.

but nothing is worse that the SOS, Cathy Diebold Cox, who has rammed Diebolds into every county in GA; she is now poised to run for governor.

Her cousin? Ann Cox Chambers: owner of the two newspapers in Atlanta.

You think Georgians get shit in terms of information?

nawwwwww.

[MsTryska]

47. heh. I was wondering why i hadn't heard about this....

love the fact that they mention racial undertones and derwin brown's murder as part of it.

[RoyGBiv]

4. Not this again ... seriously

How, other than the fact it took place in Georgia, is this a "South" thing? Serious question. Is this sort of thing more or less prone to occur in the South than in other areas? Based on the story about the NJ man pointing a laser beam at a passing plane, should we determine that people from New Jersey are more prone to point lasers at things?

Yeah, the sniper thing is pretty messed up. (The employees being fired under those circumstances is quite common, however.) What's the relationship between it and the South?

[DemonFighterLives]

5. Not a very smooth transition

Where does anyone get "at the pleasure of the sheriff"?

[agitpropagent9]

8. what the fuck does this have to do with "the south"

the south-bashing around here is bullshit. there's not one single corner of this country untouched by the greedy, the power hungry, the psychotic or the ignorant.

[karlrschneider]

12. Yes, indeed. After all, it wasn't "Bowling for Tupelo"...

:eyes:
And some of the most insane RW nutcases are in Montana, Idaho and environs. We can reasonably deride the "south" for issues of slavery but that one is pretty much moot in this moment...

[smitty]

13. new sheriff in town

Sheriff Hill is an African-American and was elected with the overwhelming support of black voters. The employees fired were white and the sheriff has given a racial twist to the venerated "spoils system". It remains to be seen if the fired cops will be reinstated by the courts.

[jdj]

62. Thank you. I heard an interview with him, and it was clear

he was Black, but also one of the men they interviewed on NPR was black as well. Maybe this was done on purpose, I was relieved after the interview, but it could be they picked one of the only black staffers of the previous sheriff to cloud the issue.

Georgia is one of the fucked-uppest states down here, which you can judge by the fact that their election system is totally owned by repukes now.

[recovering democrat]

14. My county, my comments

As one of the ignorant dumb asses who live and VOTE in Clayton County, Georgia - one of the largest Democratic majority places in the "red" state of Georgia. We elected this "dumb ass" as you call him, who is the FIRST African-American Sheriff in the county, and who fought a hard election battle with a serious good old boy. When Hill won, the press reports that the former Sheriff would not cooperate with him on a transition.

This county also voted in a slate of candidates that did away with the whole network of good old boys in this area - new DA, Solicitor, and majority of the County Commission, including the new County Commission Chairperson - Eldrin Bell, former City of Atlanta Police Chief, and one of the delegates from this fine area to the Democratic National Convention.

Now just a FEW facts from us ignorant southerners. ONE, Last election, the incoming Sheriff for a neighboring county, name of Derwin Brown (anybody heard of him) was MURDERED by a conspiracy of idiots who were supporters of the former Sheriff, who lost the election and has since been convicted in this criminal conspiracy. The people involved were deputies with political leanings for that Sheriff. Hill has damn good reasons for wanting to make sure he and the good people of his department are SAFELY sworn in and carry out their transition. TWO, the "dozens" of fired deputies (per Atlanta TV) turns out to be 23 staff who were NOT authorized for Civil Service protections by the FORMER Sheriff (the good old boy who lost this election) and therefore, they were at-will employees because of the actions of the former Sheriff, not Sheriff Hill. He decided to let them go. We might consider that they were exactly the people that were politically active on behalf of the former Sheriff and they might be disruptive in the department now.

Why is it you see something like this about the "south" and automatically jump to the conclusion it is the actions of the dumb asses. Get your facts, people. Yes, I live here, and I voted for him and I support him. Democrats aren't going to get anywhere in Georgia in the future to recover from the past if "ya'll" keep this up!

[agitpropagent9]

15. excellent! rational logic AND facts.

but you're throwing a real wet blanket over the south-bashers. see, they need it to be a white redneck sheriff because, as much as they might preach tolerance in other facets of society, they fall back on the standard operating procedure when it comes to the last bastions of "safe" bigotry, such as geographical demonization.

[recovering democrat]

17. thanks.

I try not to get so worked up about the south-bashing but it is so hurtful to our efforts in the south to change our communities. I came to DU to learn more about the ways we can get our country back and that is my goal. It is real frustrating when we are our own worst enemies!

[quaoar]

23. Tell me about it

I live in Alabama. Around here that means I proudly display the Confederate battle flag next to the gun rack in the back of my pickup parked in front of the double-wide while I have sex with my cousin.

[Desperadoe]

19. I agree

I had my hopes up for this to be a newly elected white, good ol' boy, southern bigot, Repuke sheriff...........what a letdown!! :)

[ralphys]

54. south bashers

Now that you have a black redneck sheriff now, do you think there will be any change in how south-bashers view the south?

[bloom]

16. It's always nice to get more details.

thanks for your POV.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

18. thanks for posting

i'm a fellow ignorant southerner here in NC.

[recovering democrat]

21. Taking our country back!

Appreciate your post - NC is full of great people too!

For anybody who might be interested, there is a great song titled "Taking our Country Back", Tony Stampley, Honky Tonkers for Truth. Words can be found at this link:

http://polsong.gcal.ac.uk/songs/kent.html

If you stop and think about it a minute, this is very, very "southern". Enjoy!

[RoyGBiv]

28. Thanks for the report ...

I didn't know, but I had an inkling -- or perhaps a hope -- that something like this might be at work.

When a new sheriff is elected around here, there is always a purge of workers to some degree. In many cases, when the sheriff is elected on a "reform" platform, the purges tend to be quite controversial and even a bit dangerous. What happens -- and this appears to be so in your county's case -- is that a sheriff gets to be part of a network of, as you call it, good-old boys who hires friends who may or may not be even competent. In the most extreme cases, these friends use the power of their station for their own ends or even entertainment. The new, reform sheriff will instantly attempt to dismantle that. Unfortunately, the network of friends often extends to the judiciary and other offices, and he ends up having problems, sometimes extreme problems.

Here's hoping your new sheriff can weather the storm.

[donheld]

33. Thank you for letting us know the details

It's really too bad many jump to conclusions. It's really easy to condemn people as a stereotypical group when we know better. Feel free to whip us into the right perspective anytime.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Sure glad you wrote this. So damned glad.

I've heard a little about it and the subject desperately needs some light thrown on it.

Thank you, recovering democrat.

[Ripley]

37. Thanks for your attempt to enlighten the Northern Bigots here.

Will fall on deaf ears tho, always does.

Funny how they never jump on places like Wisconsin - just yesterday I saw articles where that state put a 10 Commandments monument on courthouse grounds AND had a high school band have the **nerve** to play "Dixie" in a famous musical trilogy. You never see Southerners screaming WTF is wrong with the West or Midwest or whatever. In fact California has The Terminator Bodybuilder Groper for their Leader and no one stereotypes their entire state for that. Yet lots of DUers feel it is alright to fire off their mouths against a black Democrat in the South who is actually working to clean up his jurisdiction.

:crazy:

[fryguy]

46. just to set the record straight

i might have started this flame war with my, admittedly, flippant subject line broadly categorizing the south and southerns, but i never referred to you or anyone else as a "dumb ass" nor with any other such derogatory comment.

and thank you for your further explanation of the story. however i am still of the opinion, even considering the history of the area and that a sheriff in a neighboring town was killed recently, that posting snipers on the roof-top was an extreme act. in addition, my post - if you notice the intro - was attempting (poorly apparently) to posit the question of what, if such actions by incoming executives are left to occur unchallenged, others in other situations may appropriate. would our national leaders seek to so post security to prevent citizens from voicing their opinions? a wild and perhaps far fetched notion, but not wholly beyond the bounds of possibility - and one well within the scope of the reason that guides some discussions that often take place on DU.

additionally, you and others are correct, there has been a recurrence of gross generalization done by many on DU - including, i'll admit, me - toward the south and southerns. as for me, it was done in jest, and i'll apologize formally if its been insulting. and having gotten a proverbial earful, i'll cease to do it again.

however, i think it is interesting that so many have spoken out about this type of generalization on DU, while other categorical statements about people go without any rebuttal. or, when commented on, those calling attention to it are shouted down, ridiculed, or accused/tagged a freeper or such.

just a few thoughts after seeing what havoc my original post has caused.

peace "youz guys"

:toast:

on edit: i'm past the date when i can edit the original subject line of the thread or i would in response to the varried comments expressed.....

[recovering democrat]

49. Thanks! Peace "ya'll"

I appreciate this post. I also appreciate and understand your concerns about the "sniper" perspective. I just also know this whole thing has been "overplayed" in the local press, and I guess that rolls on nationally as well, and I was trying to give a factual perspective on the issues the Sheriff was attempting to address.

And, I willingly acknowledge that it was Chomskysright, in Post No. 3, who indicated in his title that "Clayton County is full of dumb asses" and after reading the other posts that got on my last nerve. I responded to the original post, and not to that poster directly, because of the overall nature of the discussion at that point, and again, back to your admittedly "flippant" subject line.

I too did a follow up post that indicated that I am usually able to ignore this kind of "flame" about the south, but it is counter-productive. I agree with you that it is certainly not the only thing that is the subject of counter-productive arguments on DU or anywhere else in our world. I will get just as worked up about ignorance on any other stereotype and will post my comments if I know enough about the subject. All in all, maybe all this "flaming" helped broaden the issue and maybe that is good for all of us!
:toast:

[DBoon]

55. So you propose a new "stereotype"?

The stubborn progressive Southerner who won't quit until they win?

Sounds like the entire country could use more of these!

[recovering democrat]

61. yes, sir.

as long as they are right, and yep, we can use more of these! Enough "win at all costs" Republicans running around to be that stubborn.

[ralphys]

57. think outside the box a little

Just because I am a republican, does not mean that I always support republican candidates. Just because you are a democract does not mean that you should give your thoughtless support to some redneck sheriff like Victor Hill.

[recovering democrat]

60. Just the facts, please

I like this site. My post was about the problem with people jumping to conclusions instead of getting the facts, and that happens often because of southern stereotypes.

I won't debate this with you. My support is always independent, never thoughtless, and Victor Hill is no redneck. Have a nice day.

[leesa]

20. JEALOUSY. They never could adapt to a changing world and they hate

those that can.

[DianeG5385]

24. Boss Hogg is layin' down the law

"you poor workin' people you scum are ours to use and absue" That is unless we basically out these losers in 2006!

[recovering democrat]

26. please read my post #14

Very nicely, I would appreciate it if you would read my earlier post. Sheriff Hill is NOT a "loser".

Seems sometimes like we are working on a losing battle to get some perspective about the south among other DU members!

[Blue_Roses]

30. As someone who has lived in the south all my life

thanks for your posts. :D

[RPM]

25. The south can go to...

uh, nevermind - its all been said before

[quaoar]

27. Exactly

and it was tiresome the first 500 times it was said.

[GarySeven]

29. Why don't the Blue States ...

just go ahead and secede then we will never be bothered by the South again ...

... or wouldn't that be the same "treason" that you yankees say we are guilty of - that, and of being the "only" place in America that is racist.

[tx_dem41]

38. Please read post #14 on this thread...

and come back and respond.

[RPM]

43. go look up sarcasm and humor

and don't bother coming back to respond

:eyes:

[tx_dem41]

44. I'm not sure how to discern sarcasm and humor from that single

post...but sorry for rankling your feathers.

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. Mass/ multiple murder isn't that uncommon in the south

It is such a frequent occurrence that it hardly ever makes it out of the local news. These guys were probably expecting that there might really be trouble.

[recovering democrat]

32. Any documentation of this?

Actually, I worked in this field for many years before retirement and I am sorry, but I was just not aware of this problem in Georgia. Perhaps you can enlighten me with some documentation?

I can easily guess why the new Sheriff in Clayton County was particularly concerned. In addition to the detail of my post #14 on this subject, I am providing a link to details of Sheriff Brown's murder in 2000 in the next county (DeKalb), including this summary quote:

DeKalb County sheriff elect Derwin Brown was gunned down in his own driveway on a fog-shrouded, rainy night shortly before Christmas. He had recently informed 38 people that they would be losing their jobs in Brown's effort to clean up the department. Police suspected four men of the crime, including the man Brown was set to replace, David Ramsey.

http://www.ourgeorgiahistory.com/chronpop/224

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. I have spent years in the south,

East Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Virgina. I was astounded at the number of horrific murders that were committed & only reported on the local news while resided in those places. Typically these involved the hold up of a fast food restaurant or domestic violence. I never bothered to catalog any of this, but it would probably be easy enough. This little story just reminded me of my earlier observations, and how it didn't surprise me that the guy thought it would be prudent to place the snipers.

[recovering democrat]

35. Thanks for clarifying your reply

Your initial post used the terms "mass/multiple murders" which is to me an entirely different category and the only thing I thought of was the Waybe Williams, Murdered and Missing Children investigation in Atlanta that got publicized throughout the universe at the time! That is what prompted my question. The type of crimes to which you refer are too common here and everywhere.

This situation has some things in common with the 2000 murder of the DeKalb County Sheriff-Elect, and I believe that was entirely why he took the actions in the manner that he did.

[tx_dem41]

39. Since you were the Original Poster on this thread...please read post #14..

...and come back and respond.

[gatorboy]

40. I wouldn't be blaming the south for Everything....

There's quite a few Blue State contributions for Shrubs party:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2902322&mesg_id=2902322&page=

[bloodyjack]

41. Seriously, what is the deal with airline peanuts

[JHB]

42. Geez, not another one

What's so "southern" about a petty tyrant boss who "solves" a labor dispute by hiring a thug squad and chosing to go on a power trip rather than actually solving the dispute?

On edit, after reading the post from a local:

Or, maybe it wasn't the sherriff who was the "petty tyrant", maybe the department needed a thorough housecleaning after too many years of cronyism?

[txaslftist]

45. Before ANY of you post another stupid knee-jerk reaction...

Read post # 14 from recovering democrat.

And thank you, recovering democrat, for your post.

[fryguy]

48. a partial mea culpa

see my post #46 before doing anything to keep the flame going, thanks:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2904174&mesg_id=2907644

[Must_B_Free]

50. You left out the juicy part

"The firings had a racial overtone. Hill was among a spate of black candidates elected last year in the county once dominated by rural whites. The county seat was the setting for the fictional plantation Tara in "Gone With The Wind."

The fired employees included four of the highest-ranking officers, all of them white. Hill told the newspaper their replacements would be black."

[recovering democrat]

51. Oh please - I have some quotes too.

Not sure where you got your quotes. My quotes are attributed to Atlanta Journal Constitution - Wednesday, Jan. 5. Q & A with Victor Hill, by Kathy Jefcoats. Direct quotes from the article are in bold.

Q: Do you think the sheriff's office is too white? {Of the 26 people fired Monday, 19 are white and seven are black.}

A: Absolutely not. There's not such a think as too white or too black. I think it's too inefficient. my note in context - the first question was that he said he inherited a "dysfunctional organization".

Q. What would you say to people who might accuse you of being a racist?

A. The numbers don't lie. There are people I want to bring in who are white, people I want to bring in who are black. There were people who were not reinstated who were white and people who were not reinstated who were back. It's not just an all-one thing. The first person I offered the chief deputy's position to just happened to be white, and it wasn't because he was white. It was because I thought he had some interesting capabilities. Then the next-best man for the job was African-American. {Hill hired William Cassells, a black officer already working at the department, to be his chief deputy.}

Can we please let the FACTS play out in this case and not condemn nor praise one side or the other until the FACTS are known? It isn't a southern thing; it isn't a black-white thing. As the man says, it is a "inefficient" thing!

[Must_B_Free]

52. where I got my quotes?

from the story link in the original post. Did you even read that?

If it's an inefficient thing, they how can he say their replacements will be black; what the hell does black have to do with it?

[recovering democrat]

53. Thanks for clarifying

Yes I saw the original link - as I read your post, I thought you were indicating that "the replacements will be black" was a quote from Hill, and he has not made such a statement - which is why I posted the Q&A from the newspaper with his quotes on this subject.

Hill's answers are quite different from the words of the CNN article. I don't think black has anything to do with it but when I read his quotes, it sounds like he would agree too!

[Radical Activist]

56. So this stuff only happens in the South?

What the fuck is up with people who keep bashing the south?

[Behind the Aegis]

59. Good question

Seems to me the South wasn't the only RED I saw when I checked out the electoral maps!

[BlueEyedSon]

58. www.fuckthesouth.com

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/