if you were vacationing in Europe, and overheard anti American remarks..

[Used and Abused]

Say you're vacationing in a foreign country... Nobody knows you're American... and then suddenly, the group you're sitting near breaks out into a heavily anti-American discussion. They're not engaging in Bush bashing, they're bashing the American people specifically.

Would you say something or keep quiet?

[BayouBengal07]

1. In all probability

I wouldn't know what they're saying. I don't speak German and although I'm about to start my fourth semester of French, I can't really listen to it spoken as fast as native speakers talk.

[FloridaPat]

2. Several times while in Europe when the Americans were acting

like asses, I kept my mouth shut so none of the locals would know I was from the same country as the asses. I would do the same if someone where specifically saying nasting things about Americans.

A lot of Americans are complete bushes when they travel. It's embarassing to say the least. Some people should not be allowed to leave the country.

[Yupster]

3. I had this situation

I was in college in Austria during the Iran hostage crisis.

The Austrians would often comment about how Jimmy Carter just sat there leaving our people be humiliated for months at a time. Then the rescue nmission was a disaster.

I got into many an argument defending Carter and the Olympic boycott and the grain embargo, and America in general.

Then Reagan got elected, and the Austrians soon hated him more than Carter.

I didn't have much way of keeping up with what Reagan was or wasn't doing, but I defended him too.

I also learned not to take European opinion of America too seriously.

[JVS]

42. I have found that somehow...

some Europeans are likely to assume that just because many Americans know very little about their country that this makes them into experts on America. Strange logic, but it happens.

On the other hand if one is able to demonstrate good knowledge of a European country the inhabitants are impressed and warm up to you greatly.

[Downtown Hound]

4. Heh, I'd agree with them

I think many foreigners know that there are lots of Americans that hate Bush. But I understand what they feel because I feel it too. I'm literally sickened by the people that support Bush. I never thought my country would come to this, with these brain dead right wing Christian nazis running around all over the place, but it has. I hate them just as much as the rest of the world does, maybe even more because I have to live with them. So knowing that the rest of the world is still sane while my country has gone totally bonkers actually gives me hope. It shows me that human beings really aren't total fuckups, just half of Americans are.

[w13rd0]

5. I'd tie my red ribbon...

...around my head and bust out like Rambo.

Which American people? Are they the same ones I bash? Because if they are, I can easily join in If they are bashing those who share my ideals, well, they're doing nothing that hasn't been done by patriotic toy soldier republicans already, so I'd react as I do when I'm around brutish loudmouth jackasses here in the States.

[SidDithers]

6. I'd pretend I'm Canadian....

Oh, wait. I am Canadian. Nevermind.

:hi:

sid

[DustMolecule]

7. Let's see.....you're in a FOREIGN country...

...not too many of your 'peers' around....ehm, if you 'said' something, what would you say? And what would you hope to achieve? Do 'you' possess the 'skills' necessary to achieve your 'desired result'?

If you kept quiet....and just LISTENED....then what would you do?


<ball back in your court>

[roguevalley]

22. I would show them my passport if it came to that, that cover slip

on it that says in French, English and Arabic, "I didn't vote for Bush."

[Used and Abused]

29. LOL nt

[hfojvt]

8. The only places this could happen would be

the British Isles. Good Lord, do you think most American tourists understand enough of a foreign language to pick up America bashing? Do you think that when Europeans sit on a train or in a restaurant bashing America, that they will do so in English?
Okay, there are probably a fair number of bi-lingual Americans, but I am not one of them. Also, I could not reply, except in English.

[w13rd0]

9. Point to you...

...for stating the obvious but easily missed.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. There's no American tourists in Australia and NZ?

Also, there's a difference between 'bashing the US' aka criticising the US govt, and bashing Americans. And I think it'd be seen as just a tad condescending to descend on locals and inform them that nearly half of all voting Americans didn't vote for Bush, so don't blame them. Well, d'uh. That'd be pointing out the obvious that most locals already know. I'd let them be and keep on enjoying the vacation. My only experience with an American tourist has been a few weeks ago at the Katoomba Scenic Skyway, where this local was vastly outnumbered by foreign tourists. I encountered an American tourist who was very unimpressed with my t-shirt which says 'How do you spell Terrorist?' with the answer C-I-A underneath that line, and the upside down US flag with skulls instead of stars on it. He didn't say a word to me about it, but just kept on giving me the Glare of Death every time he saw me that morning. Which means he either hated my shirt or I had toilet paper trailing out the back of my jeans. My guess is the former :)

As a victim of criticism of Australians rather than criticism of the govt, courtesy of a cranky old octagenarian in New Zealand, my advice is to let any of that stuff sail right over yr head. Nothing you say or do can change their opinion, and it's not worth spoiling even one minute of yr holiday letting them bother you...

Violet...

[hfojvt]

18. I almost mentioned them, and maybe India too

but the first line did specify Europe.
In my European vacation, one of the things I wanted to do was to interact with Germans and Swiss. So discussing the merits and drawbacks of Americans with a European would not be a distraction from my holiday, but a highlight of it if my opponent/partner was interesting, intelligent, and/or funny.

[sweetheart]

26. British isles bashing

I've tried several methods on several occasions. If i'm planning
to speak at all, in the said room, then they'll pick up by the accent
that theres an american there... so hiding is only possible if one
is not planning to speak, or if its a big pub.

I find that once that someone realizes a yank is around, they get
pretty embarassed... but why should i care what they say in thier
privates, as geesh, we are much sharper critiques of american policy
here on DU than any pub chat.

If i must discuss, i ask, "Have you ever been to the United States?"
I usually get an answer like "florida, new york and once in san
francisco." I then suggest it is like visiting 3 cities in europe,
in 3 different european nations, and it is poor foundation to make any
general comments... that is, if they're very wrong, and personally
doing the hate trip.

If they're bush bashing, i can only agree and suggest that the problem
lies as well with blair-ism, that sees keeping bush in power as part
of the british interests. "Blair is a tory tosser." tossed in to the
conversation will generally shift the poles of the ameircan bashing,
and it will turn to blair bashing... or they'll shut up.

There is no need to act threatening. Everyone knows that americans
are violent and will kill before arguing with you. Frankly, the fear
of americans is part of what one must diffuse... the gap between
the myth put out by bush and the corporates, and reality.

[LynnTheDem]

10. Depends which country...

If it was a European country I speak the language of, (German, Czech, Hungarian) then yes I'd probably butt in nicely, introduce myself, and explain that I was one of the 1/2 of America who tried to kick the bastards out, and can I use some of their remarks for when I bash the other 1/2 of Americans with my pals coz those were some great zingers!

Summat along that line. And 99 times out of 100 they'd laugh and say join us! and buy me drinks. :)

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stephanie]

11. I wouldn't blame them, But I would inform them -

that there is a resistance. And we are it.

[HEyHEY]

12. Shut the fuck up - it's their country - or I'd join in

[JI7]

13. depends on what they were saying, i might agree with him on some cases

for example if they talked about Americans not knowing or caring enough about what goes on in the world i would agree and might get in on the discussion.

if it was something like americans being assholes or jerks i would ask them why they say that.

[theboss]

14. I would drink a Budweiser and play John Mellencamp on the jukebox

Of course, I only speak pigden Italian so I would probably just ask them where the library was.

[Solly Mack]

16. Ok. The truth is not "anti-american"...it just isn't.

If I overhear people speaking the truth about America or Americans,what am I supposed to do? Do I bow up and go ugly American out of nationalistic pride? I think not. Not gonna happen.

So it depends on how "anti-american" is defined.

Simply saying Americans are jerks wouldn't bother me...sad fact is, a good many are...

"Americans should be wiped off the face of the universe"

I think that qualifies as an actual "anti-american" sentiment.

[Used and Abused]

30. What if you were in GA and people in a public area

began making antisemitic/ or throwing around racial slurs about nonwhites? I kind of liken it to that situation. Personal and hateful attacks that are not really constructive criticism.

[Solly Mack]

35. Not the same thing at all

and I never let racists remarks pass



Again, I repeat ...depends on how one defines "anti-american"

I live in Europe. I have no problem with fair criticism of America.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

43. Indeed

By voting Bush (a lying, corrupt, megalomaniac war criminal) back into office, the American people brought this unto themselves. Folks abroad were willing to give us the benefit of the doubt on the first one, because of the "irregularities" in FL. The second time it just showed them that a majority of Americans are ignorant of the world outside their door, are full of hate for anyone who isn't like them.

Racist and antisemitic remarks have no such basis in fact.

[Historic NY]

17. Actually most of it stems from the ugly American syndrome....

we all know what that is loud, rude, crude, insensitive, I've got rights crowd.....who don't seem to realize they are a guest in another's country. I've seen it first hand and always, always, reminded those traveling with me especially students that this isn't the USA and we never had any problems. Mostly they were surprised and wanted to converse with us, and also get us drunk. Mostly Europeans detest our governments policies but will embrace Americans, who act accordingly.

[Greylyn58]

19. Many Years Ago

back in 1982 when Reagan was in office, I was visiting Glasgow, Scotland. I was riding a train and some people began discussing Americans and how rich most of us were and how we liked to travel to different countries.

I remember some them remarked how rude some us could be and I didn't say anything. They obviously didn't know I was American. I thought about saying something as I wasn't rich and I had really saved my money in order to visit their country.

So I think I would probably keep silent on the subject and this was way back then.

:shrug:

[TrustingDog]

20. Bush is not america...

[dutchdoctor]

21. You should (politely) say something back

The great thing about traveling is that it increases respect and understanding between people from different countries.
When I was in the U.S. there were several occasions where I overheard Americans bash Europeans and I would always say something. Usually the reaction would be something like: "Oh, but we're not talking about people like YOU.."
If only Americans would travel abroad more (is it true that 90% of Americans do not have a passport?) and actively engage in discussion with people from other countries...

[Radio_free_america]

23. You would have to open your mouth lounder

and make the world realize that not all american are Texan petrol company manager or Mavy missile operator, thinking that european are old and colonized by muslims and killing 100.000+ Iraky without a regret.

Your media are watched in Europa, and all what they are saying is belived to be the true voice of USA.
The continuous outragous declarations of your adminastration toward europa is hurting hardly peoples here and touch irrationnal feeling.
Since NY post edito "France is an enemy", many French feel that we are at state of war with USA.

I saw many web site of anti-bushism but no one in other language than english. So your struggle for peace, democracy, mutual respect is invisible for a great majority of European citizens.
It's more easy to find a web site saying "french sucks" or to read a news paper titling "Chirac is a weasel" than "US Democrats are fighting hard to preserve valors of they own country".

When Kerry's councellors ask him not to speak french, conservatives web broadcast it with delectation, and french press take it as if for a democrat having french relative was a shame...

Do you realize the gap that bush administration is creating between ours nations ?
We have to fill it.

[mogster]

24. I would DEFINITELY say something

But then I'm not an American.

I would start by pointing out that it's not the American people, but the Republican people that should be the target of...er.. well, the anti-American remarks (not specified by the original poster exactly what that implies).
But, hey--this is seldom a topic in Europe, and occurence of genuine unfriendlyness towards Americans is much exaggregated by Americans visiting, expecting to be bashed.

The Europeans knows where the buck stops: Bush & company.
I'd say the European stance is much like the Canadian stance: the internal struggle in the US is very visible these days, and we just wish you to get things sorted out.

I'll drag that old goodwill deficit up again:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/05/goodwill_deficit.html

Look at the numbers for those that says negative impression is mostly Bush-related.

[izzie]

25. I heard it in Europe in the 1950's.

Besides we are not always right. Most of the time they thought we were rude when I was in Europe in the 50's and guess what? We were. I kept hearing people say 'we do not do this like this in the US" and it just made me laugh. I lived in SA and we were asked to the homes of people as we liked the people. We did not call them names they did not like, like the rest of the Am. Just as we took from Europe what we liked the rest of the world has the same rights. I think the way they treat women is bad but I really do not have the rights to go into their country and make them do as I wish. In fact it will come about. Humans have the thing that the men wish to marry women who are like them selfs. So as they get educated they will demand the women do also. Plus their girl children.

[sweetheart]

27. What if they were doing the opposite?

I recently had a situation where someone who had never been to the
USA was saying how great america was. I couldn't resist asking exactly
what he though america was.... and as it turned out, he was so full of
misinformation, that by the end of our chat, clarifying what the bush
american REALLy is like, he was radically disillusioned.

Dissillusionment can run both ways. Modern america is a country of
myths and poverty. Foreign peoples only touch the myths, and all the
warts and fat are left out of the package. One way to make that point
to a brit who likes bush, is to ask whether they like having the national
health service, and getting proper care. Many brits who seem pro-bush
are atually not aware of his real way of destroying all middle classes
and pushing people in to poverty.

[mandyky]

28. Depends what they said and whether it was true or not

and whether I agree with what they say. If mistakes were made in the conversation I would probably say something. Honestly, I think Americans are more judgmental than Europeans.

[Frangible]

31. I'd keep quiet

And probably laugh and agree.

[MsConduct]

32. Keep quiet, I'd like to get home in one piece. n/t

[morgan2]

33. I would say that all people are just as stupid

Americans are victims of the society they grew up in. Any people growing up under the same conditions would be similar. American society has become a victim of its own succes. People are easy to manipulate, its a common theme among all cultures. Even having a Democratic president wouldnt have changed much of our reaction to 9/11. There are too many rich and powerful people who can manipulate the public. You don't think after 9/11 with Gore as President the topic on every news show would be about attacking Iraq when the rnc operatives deemed it necessary? Gore would have been shamed into going to war, just like most of the democratic congress was shamed/scared into voting for the war. All they have to do is start trumpetting the old line that Democrats are weak on defense for a month or so.

[radwriter0555]

34. I'd most likely be in total agreement with them. What could anyone say

to the negative that isn't true?

[radric]

36. Probably wouldn't say anything since their opinion about where ..

I live really doesn't matter to me. If they were really obnoxious I might be tempted to point out that European colonialism contributed to the deaths of millions over the centuries and the effects are still felt around the world to this day. I might also point out that six million men, women and children of the Jewish faith were led to the gas chambers on this continent within the last 70 years. I might also point out that when all that blood disappears from their hands then they can speak about the terrible things another country has done. No nation is innocent. Not one. Best not to throw stones when all nations live in glass houses imo..

[JVS]

37. Set them straight and if that doesn't work tell them to bite my crank

[Turley]

38. I laugh at them for the most part

Europeans are generally no great shakes. They are typically consumed by a desire to feel superior to Americans so they tend to think of Americans in terms of negative stereotypes.

Most of them feel as if they have a very keen understanding of America and Americans. Frankly I find that most of what they "know" about America comes from TV or short trips to the obvious Tourie spots: Orlando, NYC, Grand Canyon, Frisco, etc.

The only Europeans I know who generally are NOT knee-jerk anti-American are those who have actually spent real time in the U.S. i.e. actually have lived there. The rest are mostly clueless IMHO.

JMHO after 14 years in Europe.

[txaslftist]

39. I'd have to say something...

anything, in the hopes of scoring free drinks.

In just about every foreign country I've been to (all European/Canada) if you join in their conversation, they will spot you prodigious amounts of alcohol. Say what you like about the British, the French or the Germans, they love to make a drunken guest out of you.

Yeah, definitely say something. Free booze!

[CWebster]

40. I would agree. nt

[MsTryska]

41. I would totally get into a conversation with them.

I would agree where i agreed, and disagree where i disagreed.

i would hope at least to leave that discussion with them respecting me and thinking maybe all americans weren't total and utter morans.

[Bouncy Ball]

44. Well it would have to be England

or they'd otherwise have to be speaking English, but I'd probably just sit and listen.

If they said anything like "They ALL love bush!" I WOULD have to speak up and said "Not I! I hate the bastard!"