Dont kill me, but... DU=FR, except for liberals?

[stpalm]

I am a newbie, and I know you folks will call me a freeper and a troll but I will post it anyway because I know those things aren't true. As I read this site, I see uncanny resemblance to the behavior of right-wingers during the Clinton administration, muking up insane stories. I also see lots of people reinforcing negative stereotpes of liberals across the site, just like on Freeperland there are rascist Christian re pube-lick cants. I know those folks aren't the best representative of the Republican party, and I wonder if we aren't the best representative of the Democratic party. Now I hate Bush as much as the next liberal, but lots of this stuff makes me wonder: Are we the liberal equivalent of Free Republic? Are we really that nutty looking to outsiders? Do we reach the level of insanity and hysteria that they do, except for liberalism? I am sorry, but I am being honest.

sorry, dont ban me- I am just curious and want my concerns addressed. I like this site a lot

[givemebackmycountry]

1. Of course we are....

The only difference is, that we are right.

If your for real...welcome to DU.

[stpalm]

10. I am absolutely for real.

See, I even made up my own amusing bastardization of the word "republican!"

Re pube-lick CANT



Anyway, I am for real. You can read more about me here, lol:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2350623&mesg_id=2350623

[papau]

30. Welcome aboard - Except for links to supporting data, cogent arguments,

and a much higher average IQ,

I'd say DUers are similiar to Fr posters! :-)

Actually FR has gotten much better - it seems about 2 dozen adults have started posting there in the last 6 months and while they rarely link to good data, the arguments have become more sane - still very wrong, but not always insane.

In any case - looking forward to your posts!

:toast:

:-)

[xultar]

38. Well try looking up links to some of my most recent posts. I've said the

same thing.

[Beaverhausen]

2. care to show us some examples?

Remember there are thousands of people on this website with thousands of opinions. Not a one of them speaks for us all. Not many of us agree with each other about any/everything.

[Oversea Visitor]

3. Answer

Are we that nutty looking to outsiders? NO

[ElectroPrincess]

4. Hang out awhile? Read more posts in a number of forums THEN

Decide for yourself. That's the way with us liberals, we *usually* encourage everyone think for themselves. No rigid talking points here. A blessing and a curse. ;)

[Fiona]

5. You're seeing

a tendency among some people, on either side of the spectrum, to believe absolutely anything that reinforces their prior beliefs.

The freepers believed anything and everything about Bill and Hillary, as long as it was bad. Evidence and reason were thrown out the door. Bill's a rapist, Hillary's a murderer, etc. etc.

There's a faction here who responds exactly the same way to any story about Bush et. al., no matter how flimsy the evidence, no matter how tortured the motive. They killed Wellstone, they planned 9/11, they killed Matsui (the big question being why the hell would they bother?), etc. etc.

It's a form of lazy thinking. It lets your prejudices do all the work so you don't have to.

[El Biggo Doggo]

72. anh, there's a difference

the freepers have a MANIA about conspiracy. they think we have to be evil. if we weren't, how did we keep power for all those years? so, yeah, Hillary killed people and Bill raped women and we tried to ban the bible and outlaw straight marriage. sheesh.
I saw it in 'What's The Matter With Kansas', they manufacture ways the evil lib forces work together.
actually, i find the stories kind of inspiring. hell, maybe we should band together and dismantle some sacred cows...

[musette_sf]

6. We spell better,

are able to reason much more clearly, and understand the use of Possessive vs. Plural.

Hope this helps!

[Bluebear]

12. That help's a lot!

:)

[FizzFuzz]

96. lol ! n/t

[MsTryska]

101. *lol* speak for yourself.

i'm homonym-impaired.

and can't type for shit, so it looks like i can't spell.


i can reason pretty clearly, tho.

[bobbyboucher]

7. Lots of "Please don't ban me" posts lately.

Why would you be banned for making a ridiculous statement?

[stpalm]

18. I dont know

Freepers coming to wreak havoc in the site by riling everyone up and dividing people... but I am not one of those. I used to post on GameFAQS and there were so many pervs- when a person would ask for girl help like 50 people would reply with "pee in her butt". I dont like people like that representing gamers, but most were cool people there. I guess its the same here- some nuts, generally good folks

thanks

[bobbyboucher]

20. Pervs at a gamer site? Nooooo.

Take it all in at DU, it's one hell of place, all things considered.

[Arkana]

63. HA! GameFAQs? You mean

"Post-And-Get-Your-Throat-Cut-By-11-Year-Olds" ville? I have an account there too, but I don't post there any more for that reason exactly.

Welcome to DU, and remember that just because there are a few nuts among us doesn't make us all crazy.

[Ladyhawk]

64. Gamer here.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to upgrade my PC, so I'm stuck with games that are a little on the old side. :)

The thing of it is, I believe a hodge-podge of the conspiracy theories, but think others are nuts.

-LIHOP/MIHOP --good chance * admin involved in one way or another
-Murdered Paul Wellstone--don't think so
-Murdered Bob Matsui--no, why bother?
-Caused the uber-quake and tsunami--HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
-Stole 2000 election--a near certainty
-Stole 2002 election in Georgia--probably (Rob Georgia "patch")
-Stole 2004 election--a very good chance

I'm willing to listen to arguments on all sides of the issue and ended up believing some things that sound wacky to people who haven't looked at all sides. :shrug:

The jury is still out on some of these things. We will probably never know for sure whether people linked to the * administration allowed or caused the 9-11 attacks to take place.

We may know the truth about the 2004 election someday, but by then it might be too late.

On Edit: I may be able to get rid of some of my anger and treat some moderate Republicans with respect.

[theorist]

97. meant to reply to the original post

:P

[NuttyFluffers]

8. eensult DeeYuuu? eye keeel yooouuuu! yallah yallah yallah!

ha ha ha, nah, perhaps you are just fixating on the more outrageous posts. for the most part this is some of the best message board conversations you'll find on the 'internets'. there's a lot of intelligent people with a lot to say; but like all message boards you'll have some wackiness and wildness. it's just this place is a bit more friendlier and critical in its thinking.

but first we must indoctrinate you, bring in the torturer! :evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

9. What insane stories are we muking up?

Also, I haven't really seen "re pube-lick cants" until this post.

[stpalm]

21. some insane stuff:

Some insane stuff I have seen: something about Kerry losing because of some Triad deal where his life was threatened, SOME of the stuff about Shrub's cocaine use (I know he did it in the 70s, but Im not sure about the 90s), so many lovers of Michael Moore... Sorry, I hate Michael Moore, he is an egotistial fuckwad. His movies end being about him him him

I sound like a moron

[K-W]

25. Your opinion of Michael Moore is outrageous, not ours.

Michael Moore is a filmaker who found himself in the unique position of having the spotlight when few people on the left ever have access to the spotlight. He doesnt handle the spotlight well, which has led to much unfortunate and unwarrented bad feelings.

He is just one man with his own opinion. It was forces out of his control that thrust him to where he is visibility wise. Your emotions towards him are unwarrented and unreasonable.

And a documentarian including his point of view in a documentary is not odd or wrong. His movies are not about him, they are about exactly what they say they are about.

And we dont look down on Free Republic because some of them believe conspiricy theorists. We look down on them because thier ideas are fundementally flawed and present a clear danger to our democracy. They advocate senseless killing and pushing our government into tyranny.

You are judging this superficially, which is how most people on the right judge things.

Any political board with enough people will have a wide spectrum, that is neither here nor there.

[Bluebear]

27. "Many lovers of Michael Moore" don't make people loony

He is a filmmaker with a point of view. I don't know how to address that concern of yours.

[bobbyboucher]

32. You're losing what little benefit of the doubt

that I'm willing to give new posters, especially today. Michael Moore is great. You should get down on your knees and thank Koresh that there are people like him out there who give a fuck.

[TheKingfish]

34. If you think Moore is a moron

Then did you see Iraq Uncovered - the Whole truth?

[Gman]

39. Calling Moore an egotistial fuckwad

avoids dealing with the truth he dispenses in his movies.

[Deja Q]

43. Direct links would have been nice, but what do you think of O'Reilly and

Limbaugh?

They are far more me-me-me than Moore is about him-him-him, though I don't disagree with what you're saying. (I'm not expanding on a potential flamefest about Moore. I like him, but with some reservations, but at least he has the balls to openly speak his mind despite the machinations of the M$M.)

[stpalm]

103. Dont get me started on them- they are fuckwads, too

Oh God, I hate O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and Coulter- especially Coulter. I hope she gets scabies and dies. Also, Limbuagh is a hypocrite druggie gasbag.

[donheld]

54. I was on your side until

you bashed Michael Moore. He's no saint, but he's done our side a hell of a lot of good. So far nothing in F911 has been proven wrong.

[Ravenseye]

93. Proven Wrong? No. Distortions? Yes.

Don't get me wrong. I own the movie now on DVD and think everyone should see it, but he does bend the truth or maybe more succinctly lie by omission. Lie is too harsh. Distort by omission.

The primary example I have of this is when he mentions the coalition of the willing. Granted the first country on the list is Afghanistan and thats the begining of a joke, but he also doesn't mention England or Australia. England may have less troops there by a large amount but there are thousands of them there and they're dying too. To mention the ludicrous countries and not mention the bigger ones, distorts it to make it more ludicrous than it actually is.

In fact the coalition IS ludicrous, but while he could have presented all the facts and still made his case, he instead went for the cheaper more distorted route.

There were other things in the movie where I disagreed with how he said it, but the movie is worth seeing, if only for the mother of the solider killed in iraq and her scenes.

[Misunderestimator]

57. Ha... you had me until "Michael Moore ... is an egotistial fuckwad"

(that's egotistiCal to you) Well, not really... you never had me. :eyes:

[mhr]

79. "Michael Moore, he is an egotistial fuckwad."

Would you care to substantiate that claim.

Seems to me that Moore uses cinematic self deprecation to make a point. Isn't that the point, to make a point?

All I see from the Republicans is greed and unbounded self interest. This is what Moore has always tried to expose.

My sense of the criticism about Moore is that his personal reflections hit too close to home which make the Republicans quite uncomfortable.

Someone needs to make them uncomfortable.

[blondeatlast]

82. Like I say, the only opinion about DU that matters is your own.

Your opinion of yourself is your own as well.

Answer your own OP, and I will let down my guard about you.

What do YOU think of DU? That's all that matters.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kitka]

104. You sure do.

[tanyev]

11. They have more guns than we do.

Lots more.

And we spell better.

[calimary]

16. Our people actually studied when they went to Yale.

And, frankly, I don't see many sexy republi-CONS.

[KurtNYC]

91. And our kittens are WAAAY cuter

[supernova]

13. Not really

What happens is if someone posts something outlandish, there will be plenty of people to say they're off base. Unfortunately it's the outlandish stuff that makes it into the papers, not the 30 or 40 people who told the op to get a grip.

On FR all you will see is the most outlandish stuff being agreed to, without dissent.

edit: I don't go to FR anymore. Makes me feel like I've been watching bad porn. :P

[blondeatlast]

14. It isn't about what WE think, it's about what YOU think.

What's your opinion?

I've seen too many threads like this one in the past couple of days to think it's an accident.

If you don't have an opinion YOURSELF, why are you here?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. Read some of this, then ask yourself, who is crazy, who would rather

a non-sustainable system, who would take advantage of third world nations for corporate glory and imperialistic dreams. Read and become knowledgeable, know that we stand for what is right and just, and not what is just right for some CEO's bank account.

http://www.globalresearch.org/view_article.php?aid=824909340
John McMurtry is Professor of Philosophy at the University of Guelph, Ontario and a Fellow at the Royal Society of Canada. He was also Chair of Jurists, War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity Tribunal at the Alternative World Summit in Toronto, 1989.

McMurtry's professional work has been published in over 150 books and journals, ranging from Inquiry, the Monist, the Canadian Journal of Philosophy, Praxis International, and the Encyclopedia of Ethics to the Atlantic Monthly, the Guardian Weekly and the Norton Anthology of Prose.

In the last four years, his research has focused on the underlying value structure of economic theory, its consequences for global civil and environmental life, and the "life ground" and "civil commons" whose understanding is emerging as a resolution to the current world crisis.

[BlueJazz]

17. I don't know about the rest of the Folks on DU but I'm .......

....Crazy as a Loon.

[Laurab]

19. Well there are differences, besides the spelling

And the fact that we actually can spout facts instead of talking points. It's no secret that most people on here are not exactly * fans, but I do think we're far more reality/fact based. I know I've done my research about this administration, and I know I think for myself. I don't think you see a lot of that on Free Repub, but then, I don't spend any time there. I did check it out once, they were talking about us...

[Jesus H. Christ]

22. Yes, freepers are a bunch of racists.

I'm sorry, what was your point again?

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. DUers would see the other side more often

If the rw made more sense and was straight with their agenda. However,
practically nothing that the rw actually does bears any relationship to what they advertise re: Iraq, family values, "middle class" tax cuts, environmental policy, social security and so on. I don't believe that the left is or needs to be duplicitous with their agenda.

[K-W]

28. Yah at least we make our mistakes in earnest.

There is nothing at all in this world wrong with expressing your point of view, even if it is crazy or stupid. Lying about your point of view to win a culture war that exists only in your head is a different story entirely.

[Az]

24. The two sites do represent some aspects of polar opposites

I hope that what comes away from this site though is that our side holds to values of tolerance, understanding, reason, and compassion.

The trouble you may be having may come from the fact that we did just lose an election. Add stress from war and the recent tradgedy in the east and you have an equation for panic.

Let me make this suggestion. I suspect that the negative impression from FR is endemic while the chaos here is more situational.

[The Traveler]

26. I can see why you say this

The thought has crossed my own mind more than once. Here's an even more heretical statement: Just like DU, one can find rational discourse at Free Republic. One must sometimes wade through many, many fluff posts to do so ... but there are thoughtful people on both sides of the fence.

I consider it another example of Sturgeon's Law: "90% if everything is crap."

Why do I choose to hang here? The answer is quite simple. I have chosen to stand against the emergence of Empire and Fascism. Though well aware of the limitations imposed on forums like DU, one can find comfort in the company of those like minded.

DU is also a hot bed of research ... I have learned a LOT by following links posted by people here.

My suggestion is to dive in, have fun, take what you can use. Leave the rest.

[fryguy]

29. nah....DU has a better layout....

welcome

:bounce:

[stpalm]

33. yeah FR is ugly as hell

FR is like the worst site I have ever seen... the discussion there is simply awful to navigate through... the discussion itself is pretty damn awful, too

[saltpoint]

31. Salvador Dali told a reporter once:

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad."

The tenets of extreme GOP butt-kissing on the FR site are, at base, a steaming pile of crap.

We get a little coarse over here, but it's in the cause of the Constitution.

No apologies.

[baby_mouse]

35. The difference being

DUer's are angry about real things and Freepers are angry about things on the inside of their own heads.

[ElectroPrincess]

45. And Freepers LOVE Authority Figures ... Good and Bad ones as long

as they "wield power" and have "lots of money" right wingers will readjust their moral compass and delude themselves into believing the twisted moral relativism lies fed to them by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

Also, most freepers (not the intellectual manipulators from the AEI) are not known to apply Critical Thinking Techniques nor glean their current events and politics from a variety of sources.

[baby_mouse]

51. And they can't spell.

Or string a sentence together properly.

[ElectroPrincess]

55. Yes, you make a valid point - there's far too many "grammar cops"

here a DU. That is a fact. :P

[Yupster]

66. But people still spell a lot

as one word, and it drives me crazy, but I never correct them because I don't want to be a dick. Yet it still drives me crazy.

[Debs]

71. God, I am

SO glad to find out I am not the only one

[blondeatlast]

83. Lordy, I thought I was the only one. I taught middle school, and I

made it clear to my classes that this was a something I just couldn't overlook. I even had a special pen for it!

Those kids are in college now, and their professors ought to be thanking me.

I won't correct others here, though, that's not what we are about.

[ElectroPrincess]

90. I rest my case ... The "Gram-mAR Poll-eeece"are alive and well at DU!

[blondeatlast]

102. I don't correct grammar or spelling on DU.

If you'd read my post clear through, you would have known that.

Yawn.

[Gman]

36. Yeah, pretty much except

there's no real unbridled raging hate here of anyone not of the same skin color, nationality and religion as we.

[xultar]

37. I'VE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING FOR THE PAST 4 WEEKS...

DU has become almost unrecognizable from FR. WE are RUDE to each other and down right nasty.

What gives DU?

[Bluebear]

40. You think calling Michael Moore an egotistical fuckwad helps?

As this poster does?

[Deja Q]

44. Moore has his problems, but even the most of the rational on DU who don't

like Moore don't call him a 'fuckwad'. 'Egocentric' is one thing, 'fuckwad' is utter hate and contempt.

[Az]

47. I personally don't think anyone belongs on a pedestal

Ideas and other constructs belong there. If a person thinks Moore is an idiot that is his right. If he wishes to push ideas into the public arena that I disagree with that is his right too. Just as it is my right to argue with him about them.

Do not make heroes. For they often fall and take with them the things they fight for. Place the things they fight for on high and thank them for their effort. But do not make them one with the issue.

[Bluebear]

49. He is not a "hero" to me

I just point out that the poster complained about the tone here lately and the OP goes on to call Moore an 'egotistical fuckwad', that's all. Just wondered what would produce that level of emotion in that particular Democrat.

[xultar]

88. If you'd read my post again, ALL I SAID WAS, DU has become NASTY

and we are quite rude to one another recently.

Apparently even a newbie can adapt to the nasty tone.

[VioletLake]

41. I wonder...

How long would it take FR to ban someone posting the following concerns?

Dont kill me, but... FR=DU, except for conservatives?

I am a newbie, and I know you folks will call me a DUmmy and a troll but I will post it anyway because I know those things aren't true. As I read this site, I see uncanny resemblance to the behavior of left-wingers during the Reagan administration, muking up insane stories. I also see lots of people reinforcing negative stereotpes of conservatives across the site, just like on DUmmyland there are commie atheist dumb-oak-rats. I know those folks aren't the best representative of the Democratic party, and I wonder if we aren't the best representative of the Republican party. Now I hate Kerry as much as the next conservative, but lots of this stuff makes me wonder: Are we the conservative equivalent of Democratic Underground? Are we really that nutty looking to outsiders? Do we reach the level of insanity and hysteria that they do, except for conservatism? I am sorry, but I am being honest.

sorry, dont ban me- I am just curious and want my concerns addressed. I like this site a lot

What if the poster goes on to say that he/she hates Rush Limbaugh because he's an egotistical fuckwad?

[VioletLake]

52. Stpalm, keep in mind

that some people take advantage of us because of our freedoms; they use our freedoms against us. Sometimes they take it as an opportunity to insult us under the guise of "being helpful," or "another opinion." Other times they reinforce negative stereotypes like Christian-bashing and mindless name-calling.

Don't assume that everyone here has our best interests in mind.

[Undercover Owl]

58. LOL!

they hate us for our freedoms, too!

[VioletLake]

59. They're the only ones that do.

The other haters hate us because of what our haters (the ones who hate our freedoms) do to them.

Edit: added BONUS sentence! B-)

[saltpoint]

61. Although certainly, if someone here is trying to --

-- steer you away from mindless faith-based dogma, buy that person a beer immediately.

A really cold one.

[blondeatlast]

84. Precisely. Until the OP answers his own question,

I reserve my welcome.

[Taxloss]

42. DU features actual, real-life debate over important issues

While FR features:

1. Cheerleading for a particular point of view - a statement is made, everyone says "right on!"

2. Debate of trivialities (sports questions, for instance)

3. And witchhunts. (He has sinned! He has sinned! Burn him! Burn him!)

There are a lot of superficial similarities, but the tolerance here is the marked difference. Compare and contrast threads about, for instance, Israel. There may be a fair amount of heat in a DU post, but there'll also be a spectrum of views.

Plus FR is racist, homophobic and sexist.

[malmapus]

46. Actually from what I've seen on Freepers our posts are well written

with data backing it up.

Most of the crap I see there is a sentence of some ignorant sort (maybe I need to read more threads to find something close to being well written but my stomach can only take so much BS.

[rucky]

48. Not a whole lot of liberals around these parts anymore.

maybe they went someplace to have more productive discussions.

:shrug:

[YNGW]

50. True

I've read through the responses here, and for the most part people are saying things like "Yeah, we both act the same way, but we're right and they're not" or "we make intelligent posts and they don't", things like that. Which is exactly what they would say about this site.

So in a way, there are many on here who, with their answers, have confirmed your original post.

[ElectroPrincess]

53. Yeah ... sure , check out this FOX cable news fan below

"Earl don't lie to those good folk now!" <snicker>

[Undercover Owl]

56. stpalm is urging us to be more moderate, it seems.

This sounds not like a question, but more like a suggestion for DU to become more moderate.

I don't see what is so hard to figure out, that the Democrat spectrum ranges from very middle-of-the-road, to extreme left-wing. If you can't figure out that DU is comprised of several voices, then I don't know how to help you.

You probably wish everyone thinks just the way you do....well, then, you'll just have to face facts that it will never happen!

[blondeatlast]

86. Or start his own message board... nt

[Barney Rocks]

60. well--I never used to think of

myself as being a nutcase. But I have to admit that sometimes now I feel like one. Either I am losing my mind--or something is VERY VERY wrong in our government.

I prefer to think it is THEM who are insane--not me--but I guess that the alternative could be true.

I could possibly be a nut--and of course being a nut, naturally I would think that my insanity is normal and that the normal people are insane.

It is possible. OF course--this being the internet good luck finding me and getting me locked up!

[onecitizen]

62. Why in the world would.........

you post this here? Go to freepville and post it. They would enjoy your rantings or musings or whatever you call them.


I'll stop here. Geeezzzz

[TankLV]

65. Um - yeah - sure you do.

Enjoy your stay above ground while it lasts!

[Yupster]

67. Interesting people and interesting opinions

on DU. You probably will enjoy it.

The conspiracy theories do get tiresome though, but you can just learn not to open those threads.

[quinnox]

68. There has always been a vocal conspiracy group on DU

I've been here since Dec. 2002, and there has always been a segment of DU that loves to make conspiracies over every disaster that happens.

But it is not confined to DU, I have seen the same type of thinking on Free Republic.

Just cause the conspiracy nuts are vocal it gives the wrong impression of DU.

There are plenty of intelligent people here too, not just the crazies.

Also, I believe some of them just play along for kicks, they don't really believe some of that nonsense.

Everyne has to get their own kicks somehow.

Still, I have always said there should be a forum devoted to that topic called "Conspiracy Corner" since it is popular with a particular group of Duers.

[Lexingtonian]

69. It's not the same, but, yes, things are getting pretty aberrant

The group psychological difference, imho, is that technically DU runs hysterical and FR runs psychotic under intense stress, i.e. the Kuebler-Ross stages of grief/loss. The distinction is in the direction the anger gets expressed, inward vs outward, and who becomes victim of it.

Places like DU and FR attract the deviant and bizarre. They come looking for verification; sometimes they can find adherents, other times not. The mental state of American public discourse in the present is the context and the standard: when public discourse is at its least sane and most pathological, this forum mirrors it. Sometimes in agreement, sometimes in equal but opposite form.

As for the present state, well, a great many people spent a lot of emotional effort erecting nice idols for themselves- leaders to bow to, ideas to covet- over the past year. The election smashed most of them, on both sides. That is being responded to rather than any serious reality. And don't forget Martin Luther's Letter from the Birmingham Jail- "When you are right, you cannot be too radical, and when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative." It's being lived out all over, though not compellingly effectually.

I've cut back a lot on coming and posting here during the past month or so. Most people who post here are emotionally committed more than intellectually, as in most aggregations of political people. There hasn't been much sober, circumspect reflection on the realities of things, let alone much analysis of where Democrats really stand now- which to me contains reasons for a substantial optimism and determination and roadmap to great improvement internally and externally.

As for why this site should be on its best behavior in order to impress some kind of curious outsider- it beats me why that is particularly desirable. It betrays some insecurity and is unAmerican in its suppression of the bit of wildness Americans find culturally vital and tolerable and desirable; it's culturally what most distinguishes Americans from Europeans and Asians.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

70. the main difference to me is this

DU has people with lots of different ideas, and we all disagree with one another a lot. In most conspiracy threads, you'll see dissenters. We have some pretty heated debates about the issues and whether the Democratic Party is doing enough to address them (and the government as well, obviously). And boy, you should've seen this place during the primaries!

The few times I've steeled myself enough to take a dip in the hate-and-bad-grammar-bath that is FR, I haven't seen any dissenting viewpoints. None. Everyone agrees with everyone else. It's scary.

Edited to add: Oh, yeah, and while we tend to back up most of the things we say (about 80% of the time) with facts/sources, they tend to just bitch and whine...even now when they control everything. Example - I sent an e-mail with the info from this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2900539
out to several people, including my freeper little brother. The original post in the thread is 20 sentences, with at least one source per sentence. He responds:

"Well that being the case, it is too late. Nothing in this democracy is fair. Why is being a white male such a bad thing in this country? That is not fair. I would rather see them fix the minority problems then fix the voting problems by two legit companies. Hey whoever owns them has the legal right to vote whatever way and support whoever they want. I don't believe all the hype about the fraud until it comes out publicly."

I rest my case.

[flaminbats]

73. trolling, lurking, stalking, vengeful freeper...

ahhh, now you can't call me one. :evilgrin:

[rman]

74. you like DU a lot? do you like FR a lot to?

doesn't that answer your question?

[Skittles]

75. here is the difference

we have REAL REASONS to despise Bush - a lot of the sh** about Clinton was made up, manufactured by a rightwing consipracy that started before Clinton was even inaugurated to bring him down. If I spend 5 minutes on that piece of shit site freak republic I am absolutely sickened by the ignorance and bigotry. I don't see that here or at least when I do, the person posting is slammed.

[Q]

76. Don't shoot...I'm only the piano player!

What a bunch of trolling garbage.

[Gman]

77. The average IQ is demonstrably much higher at DU

than at FR. "Demonstrably", you ask? Just look at spelling and grammar at FR compared to DU to begin with.

[AngryOldDem]

78. Yes and no

I joined this site late last summer and was impressed (as I still am) by the wealth of knowledge that some here have about various issues. It is still a place I go to get perspective on things, or to find news that I would probably miss (for whatever reason) in the MSM. That said, this is an Internet board, and is no different than any other discussion forum. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have noticed a particularly dark turn here since the election, and I do have issues with the way some here attack religion. But I come here knowing what I want, and where I can go to get it, and I still think of all the Internet forums I've seen, DU ranks up there among the best.

There are fringes on both sides of the political spectrum, right and left. As I said, it's a matter of your personal tolerance level, and knowing what you're looking for by joining a site like this, and acting accordingly.

I think you sincerely stated your concerns, so, no, I don't necessarily consider you a "freeper."

:-)

[Bridget Burke]

80. Some conspiracy theories might well be true....

Do you think Bush really won Florida in 2000? Do you think Bush & co really did everything possible to prevent 9/11? Do you think there really was strong evidence of WMD in Iraq?

This is a discussion board. People bring up all sorts of topics. Check any thread where wilder theories are advanced & you'll see many more "con" comments than "pro." And we do get a share of disrupters, posting garbage until they're tombstoned.

I think Michael Moore does excellent work. Instead of just calling him an "egotistical fuckwad," why don't you give some real reasons for disliking him?

[sendero]

81. I don't blame you..

... I agree with you.

Blind hatred eventually undermines your objectivity. Happens to everybody.

There are tons of folks here who think Rove controls the world, Bush** is intentionally wrecking the country, etc etc.

It never occurs to them that there are alternate, more likely explanations for the things they observe.

It's a human phenomenon, and all of us who feel passionately about our country must resist it.

on edit: I want to be clear. It is only a minority of DUers that have this problem. This place is loaded with smart, involved people, and I am here because of that - I learn a lot here. It is possible to be totally repulsed by damn near everything Bush** does without finding a fascist under every dinner table.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

89. Wow, what an induction from a new member!

[IrateCitizen]

92. As a long-time member, I largely agree with you...

But for somewhat different reasons. We're more like the "Bizarro-FR" than the same, only on the left.

On both sites, dissenting from the party line will draw you a good deal of criticism.

On FR, you'll find a lot of people who will say that Bush is the second coming, in spite of any facts that other right-wingers may throw in their face (and no, not everybody at FR loves Bush). Likewise, you will find a similar adoration of Bill Clinton on this site, and those who adore him will refuse to acknowledge any facts to the contrary.

One area that is very interesting between the two is religion, and this is where the Bizarro-world reference really comes in. On FR, you will find your Fundamentalist Christians who will quickly denounce as fools anyone who does not share their narrow view. Conversely, you will find a rather militant strain of atheist on DU anytime the subject of religion comes up, who demonstrate just as rigid of a belief (yes, it's a belief) that there is no God as the fundies insist that there is. And these atheists will not hesitate to denounce as fools anyone who does not share THEIR narrow worldview.

Also, having been here since the summer of 2001, I can say that there is a lot more "white noise" on DU now than there was back then. Of course, there are also more intelligent, thoughtful posters now as there were then, too. But too often, the intelligent posts and threads get lost in a cacophany of shouting "Democrat good, Republican bad!" and a lot of verbal masturbation.

I'm sure my opinion isn't popular here among many other long-timers, but it's honestly the way I see things here now.

[HughBeaumont]

94. It's easy.

We're smart and they're fucking drooling retards that believe every piece of made-up propaganda thrown at them by Bush shills like Mann Coulter, Neil Cavuto and Debbie Schlussel.

[roenyc]

95. Dont you dare compare me to those horror show freaks

You have got to be kidding. go take a look at what they find funny. and maybe you will think twice.

i didnt read any other posts on this topic sorry. just cant beleive this.

[theorist]

98. I look at DU as a community.

Look at the large number of forums and groups on here. There's something for all progressives. We can shift gears from serious number crunching on exit poll data to looking at pictures of kittens.

There are support posts frequently. People announce that they are grieving the death of family members, even. This is more than just a site to comment on current events. It's a lively community of likeminded and caring individuals.

Of course, some of your sentiments are absolutely correct. There will be a lot of vitriol from the opposition party, but if you ask me, a lot of the bush bashing on DU (and I mean real ** bashing!) is fucking hilarious. It goes with the territory. Unlike freepers, though, we aren't as a whole trying to garner legitimacy to crazy conspiracy theories analogous to the "Clinton killed Vince Foster" kind of stuff. We have facts on our side every time we make claims that the mainstream press chooses to ignore.

Yes, I'm almost certain they do this on FR, too. It's just that my doctor says that I'll go blind if I keep going over there. It's literally an eye sore.

[SammyWinstonJack]

99. It's against DU rules to call a newbie a freeper or a troll.

Of course you know that, Right? :eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

100. What if he used the words first?

Not that I repeated them....

[bleedingheart]

105. Change only happens when people feel passionate about something

and taking a centrist position hasn't helped the Dems one iota...

[Mountainman]

106. There is a difference between them and us.

Most of the things said about Clinton by freeps is untrue and most of the things said about Bush here are true.

Freeps believe what they hear on talk radio and we tend to use our own reason.

Skinner is not the same type of human being Jim Robinson is.

But most of all we tend to deal in facts and they tend to deal in lies. To freeps, facts are anything they can make up to support their ideas.

[Dr Fate]

107. Wrong- Liberals are not in Power. We are OPPOSITION.

OPPOSITION is NOT the same as agreeing with those in power.

Disagree 100%