Are you a proponent of New or Old Testament Values?

[efhmc]

Can't find one reference or citing of Christ condoning violence, yet there are countless "followers" of Christ in our government and country that think it is the only way to solve problems and are constantly touting themselves as Christians. One of those people will be the new AG of the U.S.

[patrice]

1. This is one of the saddest things about what the U.S.A. really is.

I've lost two people who are close to me. One of the things you understand from this experience is that their lives are conserved in the effect that they had upon the world throughout their time here. We live those who love forever.

Pro-war, pro-violence Amerika is literally killing Jesus. This is profoundly sad.

[efhmc]

2. Hate and violence destroys the mind and the spirit and that is happening

all around us in the bush USA. I am so sorry for your losses.

[patrice]

6. Meditation, or, as in my case, Chanting is necessary to preserve and

protect.

Hare Krsna! Hara Rama!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. You must not know the Old Testament very well

It is an insult to Jewish people (I'm Christian) to say that the Old Testament is all "wrath of God" stuff. It isn't. Those who say so have not read the whole Hebrew Scriptures, especially the prophets who absolutely condemn exploitation of the poor and helpless and who were not afraid to call out kings, who were absolute rulers and could have them put to death on the spot.

Both parts of the Bible contain good values, but the fundies seem overly fond of the "wrath of God" passages.

[efhmc]

7. Studied for 2 years. My delineation is in the perceived differences in

our society of the main values of the two books. The OT is a wonderful book of history and poetry, adventure and love and war. The main message is of God's love for his people (the Jews) but our human interpretation was the idea I wanted to convey.

[caduceus]

4. It's interesting how so many right wing "Christians" hate the people

of the middle east. How stupid is that? Jesus was from the Middle East.

[bryant69]

5. It's the same kind of thinking

that lets some Christians be terribly anti semetic.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[efhmc]

9. They seem to have missed the message entirely and that is the

message of love and inclusion.

[JVS]

18. Well the people of the middle east generally hate each other

so maybe right-wing Christians just want to play along from home

[efhmc]

24. But that is where Christ brought his message of love, not hate.

[madrchsod]

8. just watched a program on david

seems dave was an early proponent of dead women,children,and men tell no tales and yet thru the centuries he`s become a great king..myself i`ll stay with what jesus said about how to lead my life

[efhmc]

10. Somehow power wins the day and that is where we all go wrong.

Trying to put the love of power over the love of people.

[txaslftist]

11. New Testament all the way.

That's what will redeem me. Following Christ -believing- is easy. Following his teachings is, well, its HARD WORK.

[efhmc]

13. Much rather be around someone who is trying than someone who is

mouthing the talk but not doing much else.

[txaslftist]

14. Exactly!

[Kahuna]

12. Some, poor demented mother of a soldier killed in Iraq was on CBS..

last night spewing bush/righwing lies about how we have to get "them" before they get us...yada yada... And how her son had done God's will. Bush and his cadre should burn in hell for using Christ's teachings to sell a war to unsuspecting citizens.

[efhmc]

15. So sad but losing someone you love for such a worthless cause is even

sadder. I guess you have to find some reason for the death. Poor sweetie, Her pain must be terrible.

[shawn703]

16. Here are some things to consider

1. Many Christians (especially the fundamentalists) believe that Jesus the Son, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are three manifestations of the same being. The Gospel of John starts off by saying that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. It then goes on to say that the Word became flesh (Jesus). So when you see that the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, or He led Joshua to claim the Promised Land, you can substitute the name Jesus for LORD.

2. In the New Testament, Jesus says in the Gospel of Matthew that He has not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it. So according to Jesus, we are to adhere to the rules and regulations given to us in the Pentateuch until all has been fulfilled.

3. Jesus was somewhat violent when he cleansed the temples. He also ordered his disciples to sell their garments and buy swords, if they had none.

4. The Book of Revelation - 'nuff said.

[txaslftist]

17. Oh, I get the whole triune god bit...

What I don't get is our soldiers killing and dying because of the damn book of Revelation.

[ThreeCatNight]

21. Wrong...wrong...wrong....

3. Jesus was somewhat violent when he cleansed the temples. He also ordered his disciples to sell their garments and buy swords, if they had none.

If you are referring to Luke 22:36...."Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Then you are missing the whole point in the very next line....
" 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."

So you see, He is actually saying if you sell your clothes to buy a sword, you will be concidered a transgressor. I have shot down many a RW bible thumper with that one.

[PaganPreacher]

22. "I do not think it means what you think it means..."

if you keep reading, the very next verse is:
38: "And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."

Here it is in the New International Version:
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That is enough,” he replied.

A better verse that tells us that the Rabbi was not a man of peace, though, is Matthew 10:34 (with verse 35 added, for good measure):
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And man's foes will be those of his own household."

Pretty harsh for a pacifist!


A Christian Soldier wouldn't lie to you, would he?

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[efhmc]

25. Since later that same evening Jesus issued a very strong cry against

violence (Matt. 26, 50-53)that says he live by the sword will die by the sword (when talking to that hothead Peter), many interpret this statement to be allowing for self-defense. Others thing (As I do) it is as many of His thoughts and ideas, a methophor. "Violent self-defence (i.e. the use of weapons in self-defense) can only be used as a last resort. There is no record of Jesus or the apostles ever resorting to it, despite extreme persecution.

If we are fighting attackers off, we must still continue to love them. To me, that means taking all possible means to minimise harm to all parties - as if the attacker was a member of our own family.

Violence must never be against a ruling authority, however much we dislike or disagree with it, because in such a situation peaceful resistance is always possible. It can only be used in the chaos of a simple violent attack on ourselves." {Copied this because I thought the writer gave a good explanation of how I feel.) I will have to find the source and add it later.

[nostamj]

19. funny you should ask that today....

just opened the "right is wrong" section of my online store...

i've been telling people for YEARS to rip the NT out of the 'bible' before discussing 'christianity' with me.

[efhmc]

23. What a great logo that is.

[nostamj]

27. thanks!

i just did that one this morning (for a new 'anti-religious right' section of my store. (i'm advertising on www.ihatepatrobertson.com this month and had a little e-dialog with the webmaster about design ideas)

here are two more... if anyone is looking!

[TWiley]

20. Ya, Republithugs are thieves, so lets chop off their voting hands.

In reality though, there are only 3 of the 10 "commandments" that have anything to do with our laws.

1) Murder
2) Theft
3) Perjury

The other 7 are not considered. "Is it against the law to commit adultery?" or "Is it against the law to put another gawd above the Jewish one?" No.

Furthermore, every civilized nation utilizes the same 3 "commandments" in their laws as well regardless of their religious background.

So, why do these religious assholes constantly rant that our laws are based on the 10 commandments? It is simply not true.

[durutti]

26. Neither.

I can think for myself, thankyouverymuch.

[Cervello]

28. Old Testament

AKA the Tanakh. I'm Jewish.

[saltpoint]

29. Christ and his group of pals were ARMED --

-- when they were arrested at Gethsemane.

Peter hacked off a man's ear with his sword.

No violence in Christianity?

Not so.