Do you support the death penalty for juveniles?

[prolesunited]

Poll question: Do you support the death penalty for juveniles?

If you say yes, what age should the cut-off point be. 14? 16?

[RedSock]

1. i don't support it for anyone

i don't support it for anyone

[noamnety]

3. same here

It's inhumane, unethical, doesn't serve a practical purpose for society, has the opposite effect from being a deterrent to violent crime, and it's a financial drain on the system.

[genius]

47. How can anyone support killing kids. Those for it make Manson look like a

Saint. I'm opposed to the death penalty in general but, if I believed in hell, I would believe that those who support it for kids would certainly burn for eternity.

[newyawker99]

17. Ditto!

[raggedcompany]

18. the death penalty is never appropriate

ever.

[Throckmorton]

22. Same here

Sadly, I fear my state may be rejoining the murder the murder's club in a few weeks. Now Micheal Ross is an absolute fiend, and if he had killed my daughter I'm sure I'd have lost my objectivity on this issue. But, that is why we have a justice system, to balance the scales.

[prolesunited]

23. It seems that justice and revenge

are interchangeable these days.

It seems to me that whether the victims' families achieve "closure" is a moot point. It is simply not the government's responsibility to ensure that its citizens reach emotional breakthroughs. It is the government's responsibility to act appropriately and do what's best for society, and society is not well-served by the death penalty.

The death penalty is not a deterrent, it solves no social problem, it is impossible to undo, and it cheapens us as a society. I do not want the blood of innocents -- or even those who have made a grave mistake -- on my hands. This is a democracy, and the people must answer for the sins of the government.

The death penalty makes killers of us all.

I don't blame victims' families for wanting vengeance. That is a human reaction. But we must hold our government to a higher standard than that of individuals. People will lose loved ones, and sometimes that will be due to the misdeeds of others. That is a painful reality which we must all learn to accept on our own. All the governmental intervention in the world will not change that simple truth.

http://archive.salon.com/news/letters/2003/01/23/closureletters/print.html

[RadicalMom]

41. Me, too. And for minors, it's the worst.

[Telly Savalas]

27. Damn straight.

Kinda hard to make things right again if the jury fucks up, ya know.

[AlbizuX]

2. no matter how mature

a juvenile seems...there is no way they could know the magnitude of their crimes...how many of us look back at our 14-16 age years and laugh at how stupid we were...

and besides, death penalty doesn't work, and the State shouldn't have the right to kill people.

[Lefta Dissenter]

4. OK, I don't believe in the death penalty either,

but your comment about the stupidity of our youth just couldn't be more true. Remember how brilliant we thought we were, though??? :eyes:

[bunkerbuster1]

5. where's the "F*CK NO!" option? (eom)

[prolesunited]

8. You just exercised it

What about a school shooter, like those in Columbine if they hadn't committed suicide?

[bunkerbuster1]

14. No, I wouldn't execute them, much as I'd want to if I lost a child to them

Instead, they're given an opportunity to mature and possibly redeem themselves at some point in the future. It's not a real toughie for me. If you don't afford full rights to individuals based on their age, you can't magically reverse things and say "yebbut you did something really really bad so we're gonna TRAAA YEW ASS 'n DOLT!"

As previously stated: Cheney no.

[leesa]

6. No support for the death penalty here, for anyone.

Except maybe those currently in office who have committed treason and destroyed our country. No. I would rather BushCo spends the rest of their worthless lives on a chain gang.

[SlackJawedYokel]

7. Absolutely, unequivocally NO.

Cletus

[sui generis]

9. there was an extraordinary discussion some time back

on this topic about trying juveniles as adults. Maybe you should rephrase your poll.

I absolutely don't think that you should try anyone as an adult until they are an adult, period, without exception. Anything else is basest hypocrisy for what it means to legally be an adult in our society.

[bobbobbins]

10. I agree, i had an arguement with a friend about that

If they don't have the rights of an adult, they shouldn't be tried as one.

[sui generis]

12. or rather here's the reverse proof:

under what circumstances would you try an adult as a juvenile? If mental capacity is the criteria why isn't it used that way for certain crimes committed by low IQ adults?

[Jack_DeLeon]

29. I disagree with our age of adulthood in the US.

[Benhurst]

11. wrong thread -- self-delted

[MemphisTiger]

13. Don't support it in any circumstance

[Deja Q]

15. Anybody truly vicious or malicious, and proven beyond a doubt...

I won't have pity if they get what they deserve for committing a vicious crime.

Once they make a happy pill and a pacifist pill, then I'll reconsider.

Besides, most vermin in jail magically "find Jesus", get released, and do other sorts of dumb things - but because they believe in Jesus, they'll still go to heaven.

May as well believe in a package of Ballpark brand frankfurters... It's not faith in a person by repute. It's learning and understanding what He did. And not just that, it's also DOING of what Jesus taught. Just by saying "I believe in him so John 96:1095 (whatever) says I will go to heaven" is delusional; the Bible states in so many places that "faith is in the deed. Not in the word."

I know, judge not lest ye be judged. Pity too many supposed Christians had done that to me for one and one reason only.

[prolesunited]

16. Juveniles=vermin?

You did see we were talking about juveniles?

[Just Me]

19. I am a firm ANTI-DEATH penalty. n/t

[hang a left]

20. Do not support death penalty under any circumstances.

I also do not support trying a child as an adult. I don't care what she or he did.

[prolesunited]

21. Some statistics

General Numbers (current September 15, 2004):
There are 72 juvenile offenders on death row in the United States.

19 states allow the death penalty for offenders who committed crimes while they were under the age of 18; 12 of those currently have juvenile offenders on death row, and 7 have executed juvenile offenders since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976.

22 juvenile offenders have been executed in the United States since 1976. 13 of those were in Texas.

First number is how many juveniles executed and second is how many sentenced
Texas 13 28
Virginia 3 1
Oklahoma 2 0
Louisiana 1 5
Georgia 1 2
South Carolina 1 3
Missouri 1 0
Alabama 0 14
Arizona 0 4
Mississippi 0 5
North Carolina 0 5
Florida 0 3
Pennsylvania 0 2

http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/resources.html#context




Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law.

Nineteen U.S. states allow for the execution of people who were 16 or 17 at the time of the crime: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and Virginia. Legislatively, the juvenile death penalty is still on the books in Missouri.

Since 1998, the United States has executed 13 juvenile offenders. Eight of these executions took place in the state of Texas. The rest of the world combined has carried out eight such executions. The United States accounts for four of the last seven known juvenile offender executions in the world.

As of July 2004, around 70 juvenile offenders sat on death rows throughout the United States; this constitutes approximately 2% of the total death row population.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/juveniles/factsheet.html

[American Tragedy]

24. Totally opposed to capital punishment, so obviously no

If someone killed somebody I loved, I would probably want to slaughter the fucker myself, just on human impulse. However, I cannot support state-sanctioned murder. It wouldn't resolve anything, it wouldn't bring the victim(s) back. I could go on and on.

[sakabatou]

25. Intentional mass murder

Otherwise life imprisonment

[SarahB]

26. I don't support the death penalty period.

Not that some criminals are so horrible that they don't deserve to die, but that when someone is executed, there is no going back if later evidence shows they are not guilty. Not to mention that in most states with high rates of execution, there is a huge disproportional number of people executed who are both in poverty and a minority.

[Jack_DeLeon]

28. Yes, I think the cut off should be 15 maybe...

I dont think there is a fundamental difference between the mind of an 18 year old and a 17 year old.

I dont see why someone committing a crime at age 18 should suffer harsher penalties than someone committing a crime at age 17.

I think the same can be said for 16 year olds aswell. In many place of the world 16 year olds are considered adults.

So I definately thing 16 and 17 year olds should potentially face the death penalty for commiting murder.

Maybe 15 year olds aswell.

[6000eliot]

30. No death penalty, ever.

Why should we become killers to punish killing?

[TheEconomist]

31. Dont support it at all.

How can you say its wrong to kill by killing?

[LeftofU]

32. I don't support any form of institutional murder. eom

[ObaMania]

33. Burn the punks!

Most of the time it is premeditated, or out of hate, so I say an eye for an eye.

JMO.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. I don't support the death penalty in any case EVER.

I can get behind hard labor if it means fewer potholes and trash on my streets, however.

[Bouncy Ball]

35. I don't support it in ANY case, ever.

[hfojvt]

36. Ordinarily, I am against the death penalty

but when someone commits the heinous crime of being a juvenile, that is too much for me to forgive. In fact, I would extend it to all manifestations of immaturity.
'Listen, my boy, I can't abide children. I know it's the style nowadays to make a terrible fuss over you - but I don't go for it. I simply have no use for children. As far as I am concerned, they're no good for anything but screaming, torturing people, breaking things, smearing books with jam and tearing the pages. It never dawns on them that grown-ups may also have their troubles and cares.'
Carl Coreander, bookseller in The Neverending Story
Note: although it should be obvious, this post is not meant to be taken seriously.

[paulie5]

37. Killing anybody is wrong

And when somebody commits a murder it is wrong. When the state kills somebody it is also wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right any way you slice it. Life prison sentences should be just that. If you're convicted of a capital crime you should be sent to prison for good. Key phrase here. Two WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.

P5

[Swamp Rat]

38. I'm against the death penalty for ANYONE!

Just say "NO!" to institutionalized murder.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Absolutely NEVER

No one, especially juveniles, should be put to death for a crime.

[baby_mouse]

40. >blank stare

Are you nuts?

[mvd]

42. I don't support it at all

If a relative of mine was killed, I'd want the killer dead - but my opposition ensures that what I think is better for society will prevail.

[NightTrain]

43. I oppose the death penalty under ALL circumstances!

There's enough death and killing in the world already.

[BonjourUSA]

44. There is never right time to be killed, even legally

[Fleshdancer]

45. no...

aside from the obvious problems of the death penalty in general, the idea that juveniles could be subjected to the ultimate punishment as adults without any of the rights and responsibilities that adults are afforded seems extremely screwed up to me.

If we need a cut off age, I would say 18.

[Judi Lynn]

46. Never.n/t

[Malva Zebrina]

48. If one supports the death penalty for minors

as early as say the twelfth year, then how can anyone with that state of mind, believe that the killings our troops are perpetrating in Iraq are the result of teenagers being seduced and resolutely say I "support the troops"?(because they don't know any better and are following orders)

If young persons kill, artibitrarily, and are handed the death penalty by a jury or a judge, how can those persons excuse the teenagers in Iraq from not knowing when murder is murder and when slaughter of civilians is a criminal act?

[Darranar]

49. No, never. And the same for adults. n/t

[Eugene]

50. Absolutely never for juveniles.

I am against the death penalty altogether,
and I am doubly against executing persons
too young and immature to realize the
nature of their crimes.

[Debs]

51. I am absolutly opposed

To the death penalty under any circumstances. I believe there are people in this world that are predatory. Society has a right to be protected from them. They should be incarcerated for life. I am not even going to talk about what some hienous crimes deserve. The way we treat people is about who WE are, not who THEY are. We shouldnt be the kind of people that want to kill people.

[Danmel]

52. If you aren't mature enough to have a beer

You aren't mature enough to be executed.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. Why do we kill people who kill people toshow that killing people is wrong?

I am against the death penalty for anyone