I want to move to France

[laura888]

In an earlier thread, Bonjour USA explained France's Social Democracy:

He pays about 50% of his paycheck in taxes. He gets 6-8weeks of vacation. He works 35 hours a week. He has free health care and free tuition.

I pay about 40% of my paycheck in taxes and have 2 weeks of vacation. If I lose my job, I have no health insurance. I work 40+ hours per week. My college cost me and my family $20,000+. And my retirement looks iffy because American's social security is in danger.

someone PLEASE explain why I would NOT want to live in a country like this?

[Flying_Pig]

1. Stay here, and make THIS country...

like that. We can do it!

[alexwcovington]

2. Yeah, exactly.

I was going to move to Canada until the same thought struck me. I'll stay in North Dakota and make it better.

[SmileyBoy]

20. Hey, fellow ND'er!!!!

Welcome to DU!!:hi:

[alcuno]

3. Sign me up.

Are you sure you pay 40% in taxes? I make 80,000/year and pay about 7000 into the retirement system, 9000/year in federal taxes, 1800/year in state taxes, and 1500/year in medicare and others. That's less than 25% in taxes. How can you be paying 40%?

[laura888]

4. here's how I pay my taxes

From my regular paycheck of $2400 every 2 weeks, I pay 30%: $800. That's state, federal, social security, everything. I'm not counting on the government for my retirement. I also end up owing something at the end of the year, altho its not much.

I also pay 4.5% sales tax on everything I buy. And property taxes every year on my car and home.

I figure that comes pretty darn close to 40%.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. Your sales tax is relatively low.

I pay 8.75 percent.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

6. Same here-we pay close to 50%

and our out of pocket expenses for property taxes and health insurance are frightening. I love the people who rant about social welfare-when all is said and done, many middle class American pay the same percentage of taxes as Europeans and get nothing back.

On edit: move to France! The food is awesome there!

[laura888]

7. my point exactly!

it makes you wonder what we are supporting with all these taxes?

[TahitiNut]

18. I guesstimate ...

... that about 15-20% of our taxes go almost directly to private profits. Remember, about 24% of every dollar spent on medical care goes to insurance company operating profits. Less than 3% of Medicare spending is for administrative overheads. Then there's interest on the National Debt, the 'outsourcing' of federal operations (particularly the DOE), obscene cost overruns on defense contracts, corporate welfare (e.g. airline and S&L bailouts), giveaway of public resources and infrastructure (billions of broadcast bandwidth, private monopolization of public easements, etc.), externalization of corporate costs (pollution, etc.), public subsidies of property (IP, markets, etc.), and many other pigs at the trough.

The lowest 75% or so of incomes pay about 42% in total taxes, declining above that to about 37% for the top 1% ... many of whom pay significantly less, especially in the most regressive tax states.

[scottxyz]

21. What we are supporting is...

What we are supporting is a military which is bigger than the militaries of the next 10 countries COMBINED.

What we are supporting is several trillion dollars "lost" in the Pentagon's accounting books.

What we are supporting is a junta of mafiosos who are sucking up trillions of dollars of America's wealth and hiding it in unmarked bank accounts.

[alcuno]

14. Do you itemize?

If you pay $800 every 2 weeks, that is $20,800/year. That's less than me. What state are you in. I'm in Illinois with state taxes around 3% and sales tax at about 9%. My property taxes are $6100/year and I have no dependents. Your taxes are a real puzzle to me.

[laura888]

22. I live in Virginia and have no dependents

I don't have much to itemize. All I know is what my paycheck says and what I pay at the end of the year. Maybe I need another accountant, but I still think I'd be paying way too much for what I'm getting from the government.

[alcuno]

26. If you own your home, it's property taxes and interest

which really add up when you itemize. Maybe Virgina has a really high state income tax. I would definitely talk with an accountant.

[Anti-fascist]

8. I used to live there.

It's a great country. You can walk in parks at night without being afraid. There is a very small gap between the classes. The workers have rights and have job security.

Too bad the neoconservative media has been brainwashing everyone saying France is evil.

[spooky3]

11. it is wonderful

however, my French friends say that the chronic unemployment (9% or thereabouts) is troubling, and that pay (salaries) is low, so that people who are fortunate to have work often can't afford to go anywhere on their vacations, that they eat out much less frequently than do Americans, etc.

Why not try to live there for a year and see how you like it, then decide?

[BonjourUSA]

27. Only the french civil servants have job security butÉ

in private compagnies, the workers have only a deadline before quitting their job when they are fired (1 or 3 months). And they receive an unemployment allocation (70% of their former income during one year, after their allocation is reduced each month during 1 year)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Mais ma maison est ici!

[laura888]

10. please forgive me, I don't speak French

please translate

[spooky3]

12. S/he said 'but my home is here"

[Anti-fascist]

13. No.

"Maison" is "house" not "home."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. It's both house and home.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. I guess not speaking French would be one reason not to live there

On the other hand, it would be a good way to learn.

[BonjourUSA]

25. Many Brits don't speak French and

they "invade" us (pacifically). ;-)

Many of them are buying houses in France, either to spend vacations or to live.

[imhotep]

15. there is no reason to stay here

America will never improve. People who stay are gluttons for misery.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Where are our French DUers

I had some interesting talks with bonjour about how the french were physically demoralized in WWI.

[grasswire]

19. why tell us?

Why not just go?

The rest of us will be fighting to right the wrongs here.

You do realize that if America is fully given over to despotism and fascism, that Europe will probably come under the heel of a more brutal Russia?

[laura888]

23. may I have the choice whether to pay for such a big defense...

...or not? I'd rather have good quality of life and my neighbors happy and healthy in the here and now, rather than paying such big $ for a possible "what-if."

[baby_bear]

28. I'll go with you, Laura

I lived in Brussels for all of one year while a grad student. I absolutely loved it. I went to France many times. The only hard part is the language. I learned French but not enough to be part of society, if you know what I mean.

It is the same as here. I so respect people who learn English as a second or third language, enough to integrate themselves.

But, I would love to go back. I want to scrape all remnants of the Bush administration and PNAC off my shoes permanently.

s_m

[Kellanved]

29. That's pretty normal in Europe

French has the highest taxes and not the best medical/welfare System (the population/size of the country makes that difficult). If that's the reason for the move have a look at the Netherlands and Germany as well.


If it's quality of life: France, France, France (or another nation close to the French border).
It has the best supermarkets on earth and the some of the nicest, most open (even to Germans) people I've ever met. and the restaurants are unmatched, even if it's only a "simple" countryside- joint.

[BonjourUSA]

30. Can you confirm this German proverb ?

I had a German co-worker who said me this german proverb (excuse the translation) : "to be happy like God in France".

You are right, we haven't the best medical/welfare system, very good but not the best.

For the taxes, I believe we are like all the west-european people, we are working the half of our time for state.

[Kellanved]

31. "Leben wie Gott in Frankreich"

A very common proverb for good cuisine/vacations.

And you're correct: the taxes aren't higher (or not by much), but far more simple than in other European countries.

It's fascinating: we have several French PS members attending our party-meetings(and one successfully running for a local public office) and their impressions of Europe and Berlin are most interesting (as are those of French students at the University).