How far *could* our rulers go?

[Nimrod]

Just looking for discussion. The question isn't how far *will* they go - I'm more looking for thoughts on what the absolute upper limit might be.

We've already seen so much that most of us probably thought could never come to pass that is being largely accepted by the American collective. Those who do speak out are alternately ignored or ridiculed. Just look at everything we have and everything we've done and try to imagine our collective reaction if it were happening in someone else's country. Hell, everybody would be raging to go after these despots who were so obviously a threat to our personal way of life not to mention democracy in general.

SO... what do you think is absolutely beyond the realm of comprehension at this point? Checkpoints where we have to present our new national ID cards? Concentration camps? Ethnic cleansing? Reimplementation of the concept of "Divine Right"? Public executions? Lifetime imprisonment of "domestic terrorists" like homosexuals or democrats? Debtor prisons and workfarms?

Where do YOU think the line is?

[Pegleg Thd]

1. We don't really want

to find out how far the bushco nazi brigade wants to drag this world into hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rucky]

2. Torture & imprisonment of dissenting citizens. Without due process.

I don't see death camps popping up in these parts. That would end their reign too quickly & staying in power is their #1 objective.

[Warpy]

3. We're no different from any other people

on down through time or anywhere on the planet who have found themselves with an illegal but incredibly powerful regime. Right now, we're still to comfortable to start calling them to accoount for their lack of respect for everything this country has ever stood for. Most of us are not doing well, though, so that could change very quickly.

The question should be "what is the limit before the people and/or the military react?" I think the answer relates to how quickly things begin to unravel.

[Nimrod]

6. That is a good question

Eventually, there would be a r----t. Those in power have through necessity learned to play the game well. They're going to have to get just a little too arrogant and overestimate our conditioning.

We've already seen some trial baloons sent up. For example, they now know that we've not been conditioned yet for (publicly announced) lifetime imprisonment of "suspected terrorists".

[infusionman]

22. I think King George is looking for any good reason to clamp down on us.

The coronation would be a place to start if things get out of hand.

I say let them get out of hand...lets get something started, then lets get him impeached and kicked out of office.

Isn't there anything at all around that we could have him impeached for now?

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. A republican controlled Congress isn't going to impeach

the Chimp. Nice thought though.

[leftofthedial]

4. the neocon-theofascists will go up to and including

domestic death squads

[Nikepallas]

5. I don't think no one really wants to image it....but

* getting to run the country longer than his 4 years.


The poor getting poorer. The corporations being allowed to cause pain and suffering for most "americans". State religions, re-eduacation--jobs, family,people disappearing....

Should I go on?

[Sterling]

8. They don't need W. They have Jeb, George P and the DLC

to continue the PNAC plan.

[HamdenRice]

7. Cancelling Elections rather than stealing them ...

Let's not forget that before the public uproar, the shrub administration seriously considered cancelling the 2004 elections. Once they couldn't do that they decided to just steal them.

Here is the link to the Congressional Research Service report on the president's authority to cancel US elections:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32623.pdf

Also here on the State Dept. page devoted to CRS reports:

http://fpc.state.gov/fpc/c12953.htm

[Nimrod]

9. THAT might even go over

If the right circumstances were met. A massive "terrorist attack" on American soil and a spin campaign comparing * to FDR might just let him squeak away with another term.

Although there's really no need for that anymore. They can just have us "elect" a Cheney or Rove and it'll have the same effect as alowing * to continue to rule.

[AG78]

10. Well

Lied into a war that was pre-planned by at least 4 years before 9-11. We're going to see our next AG, who likes torture, be confirmed because, "that's just how it works in Washington". The media is increasingly being consolidated. Jobs are disappearing for lower wages. And of course the list goes on.

But they'll never take the right to free speech, or the right to a gun away. They'll never actually do it. They're smarter than that. If they did either of those things, they might have some trouble. Your opinion won't mean a damn thing(since they probably own your vote), and a couple guns won't really stop modern day state power if they really want to kill you, but you'll still have those two rights.

What's absolutely beyond the realm of comprehension at this point? Rumsfeld detonating a nuclear bomb in Washington? Maybe? Other than that...

Power will always want more power.

[ashmanonar]

11. welll...

divine right? it would appear that bush already thinks he has that, so you're not that far off...concentration camps, well, they're looking for a "permanent solution" for the detention camps in gitmo...lifetime imprisonment, they've done that already, for the "suspected terrorists" that they can't keep legally but aren't willing to release...national id cards, i suspect they're around the corner...idk where ethnic cleansing will come in, but i'm willing to bet that it'll happen...

yea, just wait...we're in for it, and i have my doubts we'll be able to get out of this without something drastic happening...

welcome to fascist america...

[AlinPA]

12. If you mean Republicans and Rove-Bush**, then I would say they

could start by eliminating some agencies, EPA, FDA, NEA, and then move to either eliminate the Supreme Court or stock it full of right-wing "judges". Making congress "consultative only" would be easy because we are nearly there now anyway. Look at the purges going on in the Republican party.

[SSX]

13. After way too much early A.M. coffee

Ipenned this ltte which was published today in my local paper.
E-voting In The Future

It's time for the 2016 Presidential Election. Jeb Bush has served his second term and is backing his neice Jenna in her bid for keeping the dynasty in office. The U.S. Pipeline Forces are quelling the latest uprising in Iraq and most of the soldiers have returned from Syria. The U.N. and Atomic Energy Commission have contained most of the fallout from the nuclear blasts in the Israel - Iran conflict. The campaigns are in full swing and they are out to capture one of the newest, most powerful voting blocs. With the help of the new Republicrat's "Wheel Out The Vote" ads being run on Rupert Murrdoch's government sponsored Fox FYI news channel and Wal Mart's new "Free Kevlar Vest With Any Purchase Over $100."(24% national sales tax not included), it looks like they may be able to swing the Veteran Amputee Vote. Having returned from our "Democracy Wars" this ever growing contingent now numbers
1.2 million voters. Congress having finally reconvened in the newly refurbished G.E. Capitol Dome and Spa has passed legislation to allow E- Voting. Now, no longer will the wheel chair bound vets need to wait in long lines in the cold and rain to cast their ballots. They can wheel up to their new Diebold home computers and use the new proprietary voice recognition software manufactured by Blackwell Enterprises of Ohio. In a related item, the last remaining member of "The Who" will launch his "We Won't Get Fooled Again Tour" in D.C. on Jan. 20, 2017

[Nimrod]

14. Now THAT'S a piece of art

Cynical, nihilistic, and utterly depressing. I love it.

:)

[flordehinojos]

15. the line stops when the people begin to push back ...

and in some countries (and in some countries, as well as in our own founding history) pushing back means bullets.

[Nimrod]

17. True

But what could make that happen here? As was so wonderfully stated by another poster, ye olde Average American(tm) is happily contributing to his own enslavement. Not to mention, any sort of REAL social change requires unity, and we as a nation do NOT have that. It's great to look back in our founding history and see these unified forces for change at work, but that was at a time where 1) there were a LOT fewer people to try to unify, and 2) we didn't have a concentrated effort going on to divide us from one another.

If the "R" word were to come to pass, it wouldn't just be that - it would be a full scale civil war, with the Average American(tm) being drug along kicking and screaming - see, he'd be missing his favorite TV show. Or the guy on his left would be a fag which means THIS side can't possibly be right about anything. Or the guy on his right would be in favor of abortion which means THIS side can't possibly... Etc etc ad nauseum.

Don't get me wrong. I think the pushing back will have to begin eventually - I just think our boiling point is about 600 degrees higher than it used to be. We've been conditioned.

[OutsourceBush]

16. we've already got checkpoints, and you could argue ID cards since

you must show ID when you are stopped by cops

[Nimrod]

18. Indeed.

Maybe the old tattooed bar code idea would do it.

[The Zanti Regent]

19. There is no line

Just wait for the Jesusistas to round up all gays and lesbians and place them in Christian Re-education camps...

[InvisibleBallots]

20. As far as we let them

Enjoy the ride.

[solinvictus]

21. How far?

National ID cards are in the works now. We already have "faith based charities" that are sponsored by our tax $$. This administration has made it abundantly clear that it will neither listen to nor stand for public criticism by establishing "Free Speech Zones" at El Presidente's appearances.

I'm not certain what the catalyst would be for the "r" word. All I can offer is prepare yourself.

[Cleita]

23. Think of it like sex.

If you are necking with a partner, how far will you go if s/he doesn't stop you? I would say all the way.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

24. If you want a picture of the future

There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always—do not forget this, Winston—always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.’ -

-‘And remember that it is for ever. The face will always be there to be stamped upon. The heretic, the enemy of society, will always be there, so that he can be defeated and humiliated over again. Everything that you have undergone since you have been in our hands—all that will continue, and worse. The espionage, the betrayals, the arrests, the tortures, the executions, the disappearances will never cease. It will be a world of terror as much as a world of triumph. The more the Party is powerful, the less it will be tolerant: the weaker the opposition, the tighter the despotism. Goldstein and his heresies will live for ever. Every day, at every moment, they will be defeated, discredited, ridiculed, spat upon and yet they will always survive. This drama that I have played out with you during seven years will be played out over and over again generation after generation, always in subtler forms. Always we shall have the heretic here at our mercy, screaming with pain, broken up, contemptible—and in the end utterly penitent, saved from himself, crawling to our feet of his own accord. That is the world that we are preparing, Winston. A world of victory after victory, triumph after triumph after triumph: an endless pressing, pressing, pressing upon the nerve of power. You are beginning, I can see, to realize what that world will be like. But in the end you will do more than understand it. You will accept it, welcome it, become part of it.’

O'Brien
1984 (George Orwell)