At what point did Dean and the DLC really have a fall out?

[fujiyama]

I'm curious if it was prior to his speaking out vocally against the war, or because of it. As I understand, Dean started out his campaign questioning why Democrats gave Bush authorization on the war, NCLB, and other things.

So did the fallout occur before this? Or after?

After all, wasn't he a member of the DLC during his time as governor? I know he was quite moderate.

I really find this animosity completely unecessary. Dean was right about the war and I think DLCers need to understand it. It's difficult to hear any Democratic senator, pundit, or whomever else still justify the logic and necessaity of the war itself.

But I also think that anti DLCers need to realize that some Democrats really were fooled into believing Saddam was a bigger threat than he was. Now, I know it's hard to justify considering many of us weren't supportive of the war and we saw even less intelligence than them, but still I can see why some senators (like Kerry) gave the authorization.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I don't know when Dean did..but any REASONABLE democrat should

have an extremely SOUR taste left in their mouth after reading half the crap posited by Al From and Bruce Reed. After 22 years of working for the party in my state and nationally..to have these BILLIONAIRES completely undermine the grassroots of the party and even portray those of us who tend to be more moderate as the loony left is nothing short of an insult.

[Skink]

2. Apparantly Clinton was mixed up with these guys too.

As far as I can see the DLC is bad news.

[Pharaoh]

6. Personnally I am smoked about this issue

\But am not at the moment able to respond

email [e-mail]

thanks...............

[Pharaoh]

7. Personnally I am smoked about this issue

\But am not at the moment able to respond

email [e-mail]

thanks...............

[coloradodem2005]

3. I really don't know. I wonder about that too.

n/t

[Malva Zebrina]

4. well I tell ya

no way was I fooled. There was plenty of evidence as to the lies being told by Bush. If that is the case, I can make a better Senator than many of them who voted to give an idiot free reign, and subsequently exercise that reign to bring us into an illegal, immoral and totally decripit and horrifying slaughter.

I cannot forgive them, nor can I be a co-dependant and excuse this tragic vote by making excuses of their innocent vulnerability and their naive beliefs in the face of the blatant and obvious fact.

And I am just an ordinary citizen with some integrity.

The whole of them who voted to allow this, are a shameful group.

[InvisibleBallots]

5. It started with the war

and really ramped up when Dean started raising all that money outside of the DLC/corporate system. That's what pissed them off the most.

Dean was *nasty* during the primary, and (in my opinion) rightfully called some of the other candidates GOP-Lite - that did not earn him any friends.

As for Dean himself, eh, he's a second rate politician, I could take him or leave him. The Dean people are awesome, DFA and PFA and MoveOn are the greatest, and the only hope for the future as far as I can tell.

[Skink]

11. Coming from Vermont I can say Dean has alot to do with his people.

[BlueInRed]

12. That was my impression too

They got ticked about the war issue, but the money sealed the deal. They want a lock on the fundraisers and thus the power in the party. Dean was a big threat to the DLC money/power system.

I completely understand why Dean got crossways with them, because I used to think the DLC was a good idea to appeal to moderates, but I've completely abandoned that thought after seeing them in action the last few years.

[Bombtrack]

14. He didn't "call some of his opponents GOP-lite", he built his entire run

around the lie that he was the only candidate, the only serious one, who was a real democrat. The man is a complete fraud in my opinion. He made up for a lot of it in the general election, but not close to completely.

[madfloridian]

16. And that is why Clark entered the race to stop him.

I edited my subject line. I was not going to go here, but it is time. To those who question this, do your research.

The people thought he was real, he was gaining momentum, and they had to stop him. They could not allow someone to cross the party leadership in this way. This fraud, this mean guy named Howard Dean, they had to stop him....with another "anti-war" candidate.

Clinton's calls in support of Clark were made to Dean supporters before Iowa, maybe after. But after did not matter. He called Dean unelectable for the VT civil unions bill, yet touted Clark who was supposedly pro civil unions. The others did their things, like accusing Dean of being mentally unstable and doing abortions...phone calls to homes. Dean was toast. There is more, but I have kept quiet on this crap long enough.

Fabiani laughingly admitted they were the anti-Dean campaign..."and then there was no more Dean." Clark on Charlie Rose agreed with him in part, also laughingly.

I have the Rose transcript which I paid for. There are people who got the Clinton calls who were gay supporters of Dean, and they were most angry. Get his book. Read up.

[American Tragedy]

22. Clark was 'put in'? As I recall there was an active Draft Clark movement

which was not an element of the partisan leadership.

[Just Me]

8. The moment he "challenged" their power/control. eom

[Karenina]

19. The moment he challenged

the M-E-D-I-A. They took him down DIRECTLY.

[janx]

21. The attacks from the DLC leaders happened way

before that. (But I know what you mean.)

[LizW]

9. When Dean gave the "What I want to know..." speech

and people jumped to their feet roaring.

Actually I don't think there's animosity per se between Dean and the DLC. There's just the fact that the DLC are the power brokers and Dean was not and never had been in line to be their choice. Normally, they can take down unwanted challengers without having to expose themselves. But when Dean spoke the truth and all those people started hearing and getting excited, the DLC had to get rough with him.

[WI_DEM]

10. The DLC bought into or may have been the instigator of the

idea that no democrat could beat Bush if he is "weak on defense" and that meant opposing the Iraqi war.

[Bombtrack]

13. The point when he determined he could get political mileage from bashing

the DLC and associating it's stigma with his opponents despite the fact that he was just as moderate as all but 3 of his opponents.

[w4rma]

24. The DLC isn't moderate. They are corporate.

Their priority is to keep regular folks OUT of politics so that the biggest shareholders of the big corporations whose very buisness is political (at the topmost echelons of power, politics is all) in power and the rest of us confused, divided and out of power.

[Bombtrack]

25. Well Dean had one of the most corporate favoring records of any of the

candidates. Dean was more steeped in the bad things about the DLC as almost all the candidates.

[w4rma]

26. Bombtrack, you're clueless about Dean's record. You need to go back and

research it.

[madfloridian]

15. Are you saying that we should not be critical of the DLC and its positions

and funding and coziness with corporations and its gentle handling of this extreme administration?

All because Howard Dean was once DLC?

If we don't question, how do we find out? There is a lot of very damning stuff here about the things they have foisted on us, and the war is the saddest.

The DLC/NewDems position and what their "bloggers" push as fact is that Dean was exploiting the war politically. That is DLC speak for not owning up the fact that it was their policy to support the invasion.

Blame the whole damn thing on Howard Dean. That is their philosophy. I am tired of it, and I think it is wrong for our party to let this group continue having the influence it has over the foreign policy of our country.

[janx]

18. Hey, I just had a thought.

I wonder if From/Reed are producing those memoes again in connection with the DLC chair race.

?

I haven't seen or heard anything about it so far...

[madfloridian]

20. Will take a look for memos....and thanks for the heads up.

Will watch at 9.

[fujiyama]

27. I've been extremely critical of the DLC

and I appreciate what Dean has had to say about everything. So I have no idea why you see me as saying that "we should not be critical of the DLC and its positions and funding and coziness with corporations and its gentle handling of this extreme administration?
"

I didn't intend this thread as flame bait or a "bash Dean" thread. I'm tired of bashing Dems whether it be Dean, Kerry, Clark, or whomever else (well except for a few DLCers like From).

All I was wondering was if the animosity between him and the DLC was the result of the campaign or if there was something even before that which caused the split.

After all, he was seen as one of the most moderate Dem governors at one point (I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing either).

[janx]

17. ANOTHER THREAD--concerning Dean and D.C. Dems:

It's about the DNC chair meeting in Georgia. CSPAN just broadcast it and will do so again at 9:00 eastern.

[w4rma]

23. …

Dean Statement in Response to DLC's Charge that Public Servants are "Fringe Activists"

“Once again, the DLC has chosen to put their own political agenda ahead of the progress needed to unite the Democratic Party. This election has barely begun, and the DLC has repeatedly dismissed people who attend caucuses, who get out the vote, and now the 1.3 million members of AFSCME as ‘fringe activists’ who do not reflect ‘the mainstream values, national pride and the economic aspirations of middle-class and working people.’

“The DLC staff can say what they want about me, but they owe an apology to the 1.3 million members of AFSCME. Our teachers, our health care workers, and our state and local public servants don't need a lesson from Washington insiders about the needs and concerns of middle- and working-class families. What they need is a Democratic Party that will stand up for them.”

Posted by Mathew Gross at 04:27 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000206.html

Tell From and Reed of the DLC What You Think
Click here to sign a letter to the Democratic Leadership Council telling them that you're an active Democrat who supports Howard Dean. You can tell your friends about the link, too: www.deanforamerica.com/DLC

Posted by Mathew Gross at 01:29 AM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000240.html

Fineman on the DLC Memo
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000213.html

Former DNC-Chief Steve Grossman to DLC: "Creating Conflict is Not Leadership."
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000225.html

Liberal Oasis on Howard Dean and the DLC
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000226.html

Will the Real DLC Please Stand Up?
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000228.html

Congressional Members Call on DLC to Stop Divisive Tactics
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000238.html

Activists Are Out of Step
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251866&kaid=85&subid=65

The Real Soul of the Democratic Party
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251690&kaid=127&subid=900056