Bush & the forces of Darkness.

[Vidar]

I've posted on this subject several times, taking off on Scott Peck's "People of the Lie", but have largely been ignored. The mass delusion of 48% of America isn't merely a matter of Rovian propaganda, effective as that may be. Bush, unlike even, Hitler, is totally lacking in intelligence, competence, or what we normally associate with charisma. He is almost the antithesis of these things as well as of the Christian values he claims to profess, yet millions follow him fervently. It doesn't add up; there is something more going on.

This board tends toward atheism and rationalism, so I don't expect fervent agreement. I have been both Christian and atheist in the past, but no longer consider myself conventionally religious. I do believe in somewhat nebulous light and dark spiritual forces. This administration obviously partakes of the dark side. Blind religious faith opens one to both, thus resulting in supposed Christians like Phelps, Robertson & Falwell advocating raw hatred which is the antithesis of true Christianity. Obviously this is hypocrisy, but may be something more, something akin to possession, not however in th Hollywood sense of a literal devil, demons or exorcisms.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. Funny

I thought of "The People of the Lie" when pondering this administration too.

[Lautremont]

2. If there are evil forces out there that possess people,

then bush and friends are certainly possessed by them. However, I think it makes more sense to concentrate on the results of that evil and what can be done about it rather than to help bush out by letting him abdicate responsibility for his actions to the machinations of evil forces. That's letting them say "The devil made me do it," which, if we ever get a mea culpa of any sort from them, is what we'd get. And that can't be allowed.

They're responsible for their evil, not forces from the beyond; and even if it were a case of forces from the beyond, we should still focus on the people doing the evil.

[Vidar]

5. I don't disagree--election frad has been my main focus.

Nor am I suggesting he is not responsible: you have to let the evil in. It doen't just happen.

[bryant69]

3. This doesn't lead to action

I mean I am a Christian and I do believe this is a time we are battling "against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Eph 6:12). But I don't know how, if I were an Atheist who didn't see the Bush Administration in that light, I would fight the fight any differently? Seems like, as another said, whether or not they are spritiual Darkness or good old fashined human malice and stupidity, the struggle is more or less the same.

But perhaps I'm missing something.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[NAO]

4. Collective psychosis, dark forces, evil behind Bush and his support

THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH: A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushsupporters.html

THE BUSH CULT
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushcult.html

GEORGE BUSH AND THE DARK FATHER
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushfather.html

GEORGE BUSH IS A PALE CRIMINAL
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/palecrim.html

More articles at http://www.awakeninthedream.com

[Vidar]

8. Good links. Thank you.

[Darknyte7]

17. These ARE some good links...

Thanks!

NGU

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Bushies remind me a lot of people who are in a cult

Repeating the same things over and over, like a mantra. I googled cult characteristics and here's a site that lists a few:

http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/cult.html

Kinda creepy, huh? Remind you of a lot of their tactics and of a lot of * supporters you know? I know it does me.

[NAO]

13. "The Bush Cult" (article)

THE BUSH CULT
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushcult.html

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushsupporters.html

excerpts:

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?

The denial of people who support Bush is a form of blindness. People who support Bush are refusing to look at what is right in front of their eyes, an evil that they themselves are complicit in and participating in by their denial. People who are following Bush are acting out of their unconscious. They are living in what John Kerry calls “a fantasy world of spin,” ignoring and oblivious to any facts that contradict their worldview.

It is exactly like they are hypnotized, like they are brainwashed. People who follow Bush are behaving exactly like members of a cult who have blindly and unquestioningly given away their power to their leader. They have left behind their critical thinking, dis-connecting from their capacity to discern truth from fiction. Not to mention selling their soul in the bargain. People who support Bush are suffering from a collective psychosis. Why else would they be supporting a madman for President? It is shattering to look in the mirror and see that we, as a people, have gone temporarily mad.

There is a psychic epidemic manifesting in our country right now, and millions of people in our populace have fallen prey to it.


THE BUSH CULT

At their root, cults are based on a mass, collective unconsciousness which feeds and reinforces itself. The cult is of the nature of an infinitely-perpetuating negative feedback loop, fueled by its members’ (“the elect”) unwillingness and resistance to self-reflect, look in the mirror and see what they are doing. Because it is so insular and unable to integrate any reflections from the outside, a cult always becomes self-destructive and ultimately destroys itself. This is why it is an extremely dangerous situation if Bush and his cultic followers take over our country, as it will create endless, unnecessary suffering for all of us. Bush might not just take down our country but our very planet as well. Another name for cults is collective psychosis.

It is profoundly important for us, as citizens of this country to recognize the nature of the collective madness that is expressing itself through Mr. Bush and Company. People who are following Bush have become entranced and have fallen asleep. What the great psychiatrist Jung would call a psychic epidemic pervades our country and world right now. If our country gives our power away to and elects a madman such as George Bush for another four years, we would in one sense be like the Germans during World War II, who, to quote Jung, “follow a mediumistic Fuhrer over the housetops with a sleep-walkers assurance, only to land in the street with a broken back.”

[Done]

7. Bush is so incredibly incompetent.

He spent most of his adult life intoxicated. His administration is leading us into bankruptcy. His administration has turned the world against us, and has screwed up the war in Iraq. His administration was asleep on 9/11 (or worse), and he still has not provided for homeland security. His administration has watched our jobs go overseas and this will probably cause the dollar to plunge against the Euro.

YET HE IS RE-ELECTED???

Yeah, oh yeah, maybe there are evil forces at work here, but I agree, the fight is the same.

This is a fascinating topic, but I would go to a DU Christian or Spiritual group.

[Vidar]

10. Agreed, the fight is largely the same.

[A Simple Game]

12. A certain small percentage of the population is bad.

I believe that to be a given truth, no matter where you live. There may be small pockets that are better or worse, but on the average there are very few truly evil people. It doesn't matter how * got to be bad, what matters is how he is being allowed to do his evil. This man should not have been allowed within speaking distance of being responsible for other peoples lives. I'm not talking about his handlers, I'm talking about the voters.

I guess what I am trying to say is, * isn't the problem, America as a whole is. Don't tell me about stolen elections, this and the last election should not have been close enough to steal!

I do believe these people(the present administration) are fascists. So how do Americans of today compare to Germans of the 30's and 40's?
We aren't coming off of a major defeat, unless you count Vietnam. What is causing the Americans who back * to have such a false sense of nationalism? Why can't they see how they harm America and themselves? I can't believe nearly 50% of Americans are evil.

[Done]

15. Not only was Germany coming off of a defeat…

The hardship of the great depression had a lot to do with the rise of fascism in Germany. The America that elected George Bush is comfortable and well fed. What is our excuse?

I agree that few people are evil, most Bush voters are blind. But why are so many so blind?

[leftofthedial]

9. mass hysteria

mass delusion

[NAO]

14. mass psychosis - psychic epidemic

THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH: A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html

THE BUSH CULT
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushcult.html

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushsupporters.html

excerpts:

THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH: A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS

The truth now needs to be uttered. George W. Bush is ill. He has a psycho-spiritual dis-ease of the soul, a sickness that is endemic to our culture and symptomatic of the times we live in.

At the root of Bush's pathology is a deep dissociation. Like the terrorists, he has split-off from his own darker half, projecting the shadow "out there," and then tries to destroy this dis-owned shadow. By projecting the shadow onto each other, Bush and the terrorists are each seeing their own shadow reflected in the other. They see each other as criminals, as the incarnation of evil. By projecting the shadow like this, they locate the evil "out there," which insures that they don't have to recognize the evil within themselves.

By projecting the shadow, Bush is unwittingly being a conduit for the deepest, archetypal evil to possess him from behind, beneath his conscious awareness, and to act itself out through him. At the same time, ironically enough, he identifies with the light and imagines that he is divinely inspired. He then believes that any action he desires is justified in the name of God, as he can rationalize it as being God's will. Unable to self-reflect, he is convinced of the rightness of his viewpoint, which he considers non-negotiable. This is a very dangerous situation, as Bush has become unconsciously identified with and possessed by the hero, or savior archetype.

Just like Hitler struck a chord deep in the German unconscious, Bush is touching something very deep in the American psyche. Bush is acting out on the world stage an under-developed psychological process that deals simplistically with issues such as good and evil. Whereas Hitler’s evil was more overt in its cruelty and sadism, Bush’s dark side is much more hidden and disguised, which makes it particularly dangerous. People who vote for Bush are somehow blind to what is very obvious to others. It’s as if they’ve become hypnotized and fallen under the spell that Bush is casting

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?

The denial of people who support Bush is a form of blindness. People who support Bush are refusing to look at what is right in front of their eyes, an evil that they themselves are complicit in and participating in by their denial. People who are following Bush are acting out of their unconscious. They are living in what John Kerry calls “a fantasy world of spin,” ignoring and oblivious to any facts that contradict their worldview.

It is exactly like they are hypnotized, like they are brainwashed. People who follow Bush are behaving exactly like members of a cult who have blindly and unquestioningly given away their power to their leader. They have left behind their critical thinking, dis-connecting from their capacity to discern truth from fiction. Not to mention selling their soul in the bargain. People who support Bush are suffering from a collective psychosis. Why else would they be supporting a madman for President? It is shattering to look in the mirror and see that we, as a people, have gone temporarily mad.

There is a psychic epidemic manifesting in our country right now, and millions of people in our populace have fallen prey to it.


THE BUSH CULT

At their root, cults are based on a mass, collective unconsciousness which feeds and reinforces itself. The cult is of the nature of an infinitely-perpetuating negative feedback loop, fueled by its members’ (“the elect”) unwillingness and resistance to self-reflect, look in the mirror and see what they are doing. Because it is so insular and unable to integrate any reflections from the outside, a cult always becomes self-destructive and ultimately destroys itself. This is why it is an extremely dangerous situation if Bush and his cultic followers take over our country, as it will create endless, unnecessary suffering for all of us. Bush might not just take down our country but our very planet as well. Another name for cults is collective psychosis.

It is profoundly important for us, as citizens of this country to recognize the nature of the collective madness that is expressing itself through Mr. Bush and Company. People who are following Bush have become entranced and have fallen asleep. What the great psychiatrist Jung would call a psychic epidemic pervades our country and world right now. If our country gives our power away to and elects a madman such as George Bush for another four years, we would in one sense be like the Germans during World War II, who, to quote Jung, “follow a mediumistic Fuhrer over the housetops with a sleep-walkers assurance, only to land in the street with a broken back.”

[indigobusiness]

11. The 'Big Lie' is real, and so are the people that populate it.

The only real argument regards the form and character of the demons.

[autorank]

16. **ALERT** Vidar is on to something. Read: UNHOLY ALLIANCE

There is an energy propelling the * movement that is truly ugly. There are multiple paths out there worthy of exploration: Dominionists, The Fellowship, etc.

There is an amazing book called Unholy Alliance by Peter Levenda (2003) The Continuum International Publishing Group: New York. It outlines the bizarre collection of occult groups that flourished in Germany prior to Hitler's rise to power. Thulists, etc. had huge followings and often fought among themselves. Hitler came along and cleverly used these strange ones, along with industrialist support, to generate a mass movement quickly. The roots of these occult groups survived Hitler and have shown up in Chile under Pinochet. Leaders of Colonia Dignidad, discussed in this book as a cult center in Southern Chile, are now being prosecuted for a variety of crimes (including child abuse) by the current Chilean government.

It is reasonable to question the involvement of bizarre occult theories/practices in the Iraqi torture scandal. Where the hell did they get the ideas for this? It may just be deranged people or it may be a manifestation of some strange cult beliefs.

The Levanda book (the a forward by Norman Mailer) is great reading and history and the role of secretive, cult groups in major historical events is not to be dismissed out of hand.

[Vidar]

26. I'm aware of some of these. Thanks for the reference.

[MadHound]

18. Sorry friend, while I believe that Bush is evil, and there are evil people

I don't think that there what is going on is a manefestation of the dark powers from beyond.

Quite frankly I think what is happening is a culmination of twenty plus years of the brainwashing of our populace by corporate media, and the work of the neo-con movement harking back to the Nixon administration.

First off, with the dual income families, the constant pressure just to stay afloat, many people simply don't have the time to do in-depth news research. They want to plop down on the couch for fifteen-thirty minutes and catch the news from whichever network strikes their fancy. Faux, being dumbed down and flashy seems to catch a lot of suckers, but no matter which network, propaganda is what is dispensed. Ever since Watergate, and even before, the MSM has been bought up and defanged by the very same corporate powers who would have the most to lose if the media truly did it's job. And with the advent of talk radio, well, that took the RW echo chamber rhetoric up to a whole new level.

And people just take it all in, being slowly, seductively brainwashed in the process, until they believe black is white, and Bush is good. It's truly pathetic, but we've all seen it going on in our lifetimes. And the effect of all this RW zombieism is bearing fruit for Bushco now. He can lie his way into a war, and apparently get away with it, with no political repurcussions.

Meanwhile, even though Nixon resigned, that was hardly the end of scary conservatism, in fact it was only the beginning. With Ford as Nixon's successor, while the evil head of the corporate/government alliance was gone, virtually all of his henchmen, and more importantly the underlying machinery was still in place. And the neo-cons started working steadily and stealthily to put themselves into power. They first tasted that power with Reagan and BushI. Bush II has simply given them a larger stage to play on. This is the goal that they've been working on for years and decades, this is the culmination of all their conquering wetdreams.

There is no great underlying evil at work in the world, merely the patient evil of power hungry men in business and government. Combine that with a populace lulled to sumbmission by MSM propaganda, and you've got a recipe for fascist control. Don't ascribe otherworldly evil to things that are wholly in the provence of mortal men, it makes fighting back even that more daunting for some.

[Vidar]

19. You've explained Cheney perfectly, not Bush.

I understand greedy, unscrupulous bastards like Cheney. I think we would be better off with Cheney; self-interest is not self-destructive. Cheney would loot the country, but not take it down with him. Bush's crazy messianic convictions do go in that direction. Reagan, for all his faults, was really likable. Bush I, for all his faults, was really intelligent. Bush II is neither.

[MadHound]

20. Who do you think is running this show?

Certainly not Bush! He's the sock puppet they've put up as a sop to the RW fundies, and the down home folksie charm. The one's really pulling the strings are Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, all those fun PNAC people.

[Vidar]

21. Not disagreeing on sock puppet, but he has an insanity lacking in the rest

[E_Smith]

22. just watched "power of nightmares" about

the rise of the neocons and terrorism. having watched that I had to reconsider all the "evil" rhetoric thrown at the Neocons/Cheney/Bush. In fact the Neocons grew out of an ideology that at face value isn't necessarily evil- at least some of them actually believe in the idea of spreading democracy for the good of the world. They don't believe that liberalism can adequately empower society because everyone will revert to their own selfish interests and desires without a greater cause to rally around, thus leading to "moral decay" of society. this is why they promote religion and a "good vs. evil" view of the world (even if they don't really believe in it)....

therefore I ask, are the neocons really "evil" or are they just misguided? Are the forces that drive neoconservatism simply imperialistic and power hungry as they are portrayed here at DU, or are they really trying to promote a greater good?

[Generator]

23. Very interesting

Kudos to the thread leader-best thread I've read in awhile

But To E Smith-

I think Bushco, of course, believe what they are doing will lead to good. But honestly, they don't even understand what Democracy is. It's not something you force by a gun. And the other truly evil regimes in history thought what they were doing was "for the best". Pol Pot had an idea that getting rid of society and moving everyone to the country-killing all the teachers and intellectuals would make everyone happy. So he thought he was doing good. Killing was the means to the happy society where everyone was equal.

I've even read histories that said certain Jews didn't feel it was even personal at all-in other words they didn't "hate" the Jews, many Nazis honestly believed they were inferior-not truly human. So the believed what they were doing was just. Which is far more disturbing than killing someone for any other reason-because a belief system you build to justify killing is the ultimate de-humanization.

So, I have said many times that with the Bush cabal-all they care about is what the "believe". They believe Iraq will be free-and of course they define what freedom means-a servile country that is friendly to US profit and interest. Ultimately, it has nothing to do with the Iraqis themselves. The believe they will do it-damn all evidence. The end will justify the means. Even if the end is more Iraqis and more Americans dead than 9/11-because the "cause", the ideology that has been dubbed neo-con is the point. There is no other point but the zeal of the cause that cannot fail, we don't look at any reality. We have this ideology and that is the point-we are correct.

They are like puppetmasters-we have decided that Iraq will be what we want it to be and this is our grand experiment and we will not fail. It even appears that with the Bush gang that political expidency is even irrelevant. Pulling the troops out earlier-even a promise of that would have possibly been disasterous for Iraq-but I think it (sans all the fraud and dirty tricks) would have guaranteed a Bush victory. But they would not do that. Ideology-like a religion trumps everything.

And it seems there is defintely some hands of darkness, as I said anyone that watched the debates and would choose Bush over Kerry needs a brain scan or something. Because they are operating out of fear and a cutlism, certainly not out of anything that makes sense.

Hands of darkness, indeed. And utlimately,being "misguided" as you say, and refusing to look at reality, clinging to your own denial and lies, leads to evil. Because what's the difference? They were tortured either way. Even if they didn't think it would be that way-their actions have led to everything else. They are culpable for every crime. Just as every person that looked the other way in other way in these other horrible regimes was, belief in your rightness is not excuse for ignoring the reality of others suffering.

[E_Smith]

24. thanks for the reply

I agree with just about all you say there... they are driven by the ideology and the need to be "right". they feel the liberal experiment of FDR failed and now they want to implement their theories. They most certainly believe that the ends justifies almost any means-- and I think this is the root cause of their "evil." Really if you want to attribute evil to these people its more a matter of religious views and semantics than anything that is actually pragmatic. I think they have a really "big picture" view of this whole effort and are willing to bear great sacrifices by others to test their theories over the long term. This is the height of egotism--another one of their flaws. But isn't anyone that believes in their cause to some extent egotistical? Liberals certainly have their own brand of egotism... but at least they aren't running amuck killing people around the globe for it.

[indigobusiness]

25. They truly believe in their New World Order paradigm.

They seem to revere cleverness, and discount wisdom. That is the crux of their folly: they think they can manipulate the world to conform to their antithetical ideal.

[Vidar]

27. Many ideologies start out admirably. Communism as

espoused by Marx has many good points. Then you come to a leader who sees himself as somehow "chosen", eg. Bush, Hitler, Stalin, and followers whose blind faith eventually allows any expediency. That's when the "force of darkness" enters. Few if any popular movements have been inherently evil at their outset.

[Vidar]

28. For the record, I'm not proposing demonic possession or that

140 million Americans are possessed. Mass hysteria, delusion, propaganda & corporate possession of the media explains most misguided Americans. I've used "dark forces" to avoid the personification inherent in a devil or demon.