The Strange Death of Senator Paul Wellstone

[Carolab]

http://www.readerweekly.us/issue/290/Jim_Fetzer.html

New book, just out. It was not an accident.

[aquart]

1. Fetzer feeling depressed about anything?

Just want to make sure.

Journalists who write things George doesn't like have tragic tendencies.

[beltanefauve]

2. Thank you

For keeping this subject, and Paul Wellstone's memory, alive.:cry:

[booksenkatz]

4. I thought about him A LOT last week

He wouldn't have sat there on his ass, silent, would he?

(And welcome to DU!)
:hi:

[tinanator]

6. like he did last time?

Not to disrespect a great man, but lets keep history alive at least.
I think all anyone needs to know is the history of Judi Barri and the FBI in order to decipher the reality here. They killed him all right.

[booksenkatz]

7. This time, I really don't think so

Last time, I think too many were stunned and in disbelief and unsure what the hell was going on and afraid to cause a stir and unable to see the big picture/repercussions (pick a reason). I just can't see Wellstone sitting this time. Maybe I'm wrong in my little fantasy world, but I just can't see it. (Hey, I'm a liberal because I'm ever hopeful!) Boxer sat last time too. Some people understand second chances, I suppose.

[tinanator]

10. I agree

but I dont think this is the sort of leadership a democracy requires.
Then again, we arent one, so...

[booksenkatz]

11. Hear, hear, Tinanator

I'm ready to "clean house" (and the senate, too). I've given WAY too many second chances to this lousy leadership!!!!!!!!!

[Carolab]

26. He would have but GORE asked the Senate NOT to stand.

I am quite sure he and Boxer would have, together. They stood together against the war. They were great friends.

[tinanator]

33. youre right and I apologize for disparaging his memory

somehow my bitterness gets the best of me frequently.

[Senior citizen]

3. In my thank you letter to Senator Boxer

I suggested she avoid small planes, not open her own mail, and make sure her staff knows that she is not contemplating shooting herself in the head even once, no less twice.

On the other hand, I think part of the reason Boxer stood up is because she knows enough about fascism to realize that they'll kill you no matter what you do, so sooner is probably better than later.

I'm depressed. I don't think we'll ever have a Constitutional government again, I don't think we'll ever have checks and balances again, I doubt if our economy can be salvaged, and I know our country's reputation is beyond help.

I'm glad there's a book on this. After reading Ruppert, I didn't think it was an accident.

[ladjf]

8. I doubt that Senator Boxer is in danger of being assassinated.

Although she had a high profile in the election challenge issue, she isn't basically dangerous enough to motivate a killing. The ones who are most in danger are the ones in high places who have personal knowledge that, if revealed, would be highly damaging, information that had not been made public.

[JNelson6563]

5. I still can't believe

they whacked him in order to give us Coleman. Ugh.

Julie

[ladjf]

9. Coleman, the man, was of no consequence. Coleman the

Republican vote in the Senate was. I suspect that Wellstone had uncovered some vital information and was on the verge of publicizing it. Shortly before the JFK assassination, Kennedy said that there were entities within the government that were capable of staging a coup and that it was his intention to reveal the details to the American people.

[Vidar]

12. Thanks for posting. Glad Fetzer is publicizing this Bush murder.

[sellitman]

13. How about John Kennedy Jr ?

I bet he met his fate the same way. The rats in power will stop at nothing.

[Vidar]

21. Possible but I don't think it is as likely.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. How do we know that Daschle or Gephardt didn't have him killed?

Since motive is the main proof that conspiracy theorists have, then both Daschle or Gephardt should certainly be considered suspects. Both had Presidential aspirations, and didn't need someone like Wellstone showing them up by acting principled all the time. Both have the support of labor unions, so they could probably have found a union mechanic able to carry out sabotoge to the plane.

This is the slippery slope you travel down when you use only motive to prove someone's guilt (or the existence of a crime in the first place).

[mattclearing]

17. A lot of the evidence implied an electromagnetic pulse, or EMP.

So it wasn't necessarily sabotage.

While it's certainly possible that anyone could have done it, the timing (days before the election) suggests a Republican motivation.

Also, perhaps BBV was a factor in the election, and they didn't trust Wellstone to shut up and accept the "will of the people."

[karlrschneider]

36. An EMP cannot disable mechanically operated flight controls.

:eyes:

[Vidar]

20. Wellstone's death gave Bush control of the senate, a much

stronger motive. I would also argue from Bush's proven character flaws, versus Gephardt & Daschle. Beyond that, this is my personal belief. If I had inside information to go to court with, I would do so.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Why would Bush believe that Wellstone dying would cause a GOP victory?

Carnahan died in a plane crash in 2000 shortly before the election and Ashcroft, the GOP candidate, still lost.

[Carolab]

27. Carnahan's WIFE won. This time, the WIFE died as well. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. He had THREE children

[Carolab]

42. True but they weren't politically active. Sheila Wellstone WAS.

In Minnesota, the Star Tribune reported just a few days before the election (Oct. 30, 2002) that, "Dramatic political developments since Sen. Paul Wellstone's death Friday have had little effect on voters' leanings in the U.S. Senate race, according to a Star Tribune Minnesota Poll taken Monday night. Wellstone's likely replacement on the ballot, former Vice President Walter Mondale, leads Republican Norm Coleman by 47 to 39 percent -- close to where the race stood two weeks ago when Wellstone led Coleman 47 to 41 percent."

When the computerized machines were done counting the vote a few days later, however, Coleman had beat Mondale by 50 to 47 percent. If Mondale had asked for new chips, would it have made a difference? We'll never know.

http://www.alternet.org/story/16474

Perhaps voters would have voted for Sheila out of sympathy just as voters picked Mrs. Carnahan? And wouldn't it have made it harder to believe that Coleman won instead? The Diebold Accuvotes "decided for us", seems to me.

[Yupster]

43. Was Mrs Carnahan

politically active?

[Carolab]

44. I'm not certain. But obviously she was preferable to Mr. Ashcroft.

I am sure our Minnesota voters would have found Sheila preferable to Mr. Coleman. I just read some documentation tonight that indicates Mr. Coleman may have, in fact, been picked by Mr. Diebold.

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. She was politically active yet the let her her live

http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C001043

[Al-CIAda]

23. Daschle got his anthrax note from the administration

so you can rule him out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Or it could have been another Democrat trying to take him out

Perhaps it was someone who wanted to be the Democratic presidential nominee or perhaps Senate Democratic Leader.

Seriously, anyone who has worked in a Congressional office knows that Senators don't open their own mail. Some unlucky intern or entry level staffer has that job.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. You write "main proof," but what it sounds like you are saying is

"only proof." Surely that's the only way to make sense of your mention of Daschle and Gephardt.

There is much more than motive to make the Wellstone death suspicious. For one instance, as I posted, the uncanny early arrival of the FBI recovery team, which had the crime scene to itself for eight hours. For another, the bizarre fire, which totally consumed the cockpit yet left the fuel-bearing wings virtually undamaged. (One wing even separated on impact. What caused the fire, which burned with a light-blue smoke, rather than the dark black of a fuel fire?)

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. Early arrival of the FBI?

Did the arrive to the crash site before the crash? :shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

31. motive? How about $65 billion?

http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/asbestos/



W R Grace

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. So it was the asbestos industry and not Bush?

Seems like he had more people who wanted him dead than JR Ewing.

[seemslikeadream]

34. recent NC plane crash, 3 WR Grace employees were killed

In the recent NC plane crash, 3 WR Grace employees were killed: Joseph Spiak, general manager of specialty vermiculite (including the highly toxic asbestos containing Zonolite), Paul Stidham, director of environmental health and safety, and Richard Lyons, global health and safety manager.


Crash ends promising lives in an instant
By Liv Osby
HEALTH WRITER
[e-mail]

Many were just starting their lives, like the two Clemson University graduate students, the Bob Jones University co-ed and the young father traveling with his adolescent daughter. Others, including the North Carolina computer salesman with two small children at home and three employees of W.R. Grace & Co., were just making a living when their US Airways plane flipped, crashed and burst into flames moments after takeoff Wednesday morning from Charlotte.

W.R. Grace & Co. veteran Richard Lyons was global health and safety manager at Grace Performance Chemicals in Cambridge, Mass. Lyons, 56, joined the company in 1969. Married with two children, he lived in Lynnfield, Mass.

Joseph Spiak, 46, also worked at the Cambridge site as general manager for specialty vermiculite (note: this includes the highly toxic, widely distributed brand of asbestos contaminated vermiculite marketed under the W.R. Grace brand name of Zonolite). A resident of Acton, Mass., he had been with Grace since 1981 and occasionally visited its Spartanburg facilities. He was married with two children.

Paul Stidham was a newcomer to the company, joining last July as director of environment health and safety for Grace's corporate headquarters in Columbia, Md. He and his wife, Dora, and their two young children made their home in Howard County, Va.

All three were on their way to a Grace mining plant in Enoree, S.C. "We are devastated and stunned by this tragic loss," said Grace CEO Paul Norris.
http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/01/08/2003010834140.htm



Published on Friday, August 4, 2000 in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Cheney's Firm Backed Bill To Limit Asbestos Liability
by Andrew Schneider and Lise Olsen

Dick Cheney and the giant energy company he will leave to run for vice president have contributed more than $150,000 to members of Congress who sponsored legislation that would limit the ability of workers to sue companies for asbestos exposure.
The Halliburton Co., an oil-field services company based in Dallas, and its subsidiaries have had about 273,300 suits filed against them since 1976 by workers suffering from asbestos-related disease. Many of those suits were filed before Cheney became chairman of the board and chief executive officer in 1995.

At the end of 1999, 107,650 suits for damages were still pending, including 46,400 new suits filed against the corporation last year, according to the firm's annual report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Cheney, 59, says he will resign Aug. 16 to concentrate on the Republican campaign.

Halliburton's political action committees and Cheney contributed $494,452 to congressional candidates from 1997 through mid-2000. Of that, $157,500 went to members of Congress who co-sponsored the asbestos legislation -- 59 Republicans and four Democrats.
more
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/080400-02.htm

[seemslikeadream]

40. The NTSB report of the crash that killed the WR Grace employees

Joseph Spiak, general manager of specialty vermiculite (including the highly toxic asbestos containing Zonolite)
Paul Stidham, director of environmental health and safety
Richard Lyons, global health and safety manager

http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030110X0004...

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the airplane's loss of pitch control during take-off. The loss of pitch control resulted from the incorrect rigging of the elevator system compounded by the airplane's aft center of gravity, which was substaintially aft of the certified aft limit.

Contributing to the cause of the accident were:

(1) Air Midwest's lack of oversight of the work being performed at the Huntington, West Virginia, maintenance station;

(2) Air Midwest's maintenance procedures and documentation;

(3) Air Midwest's weight and balance program at the time of the accident;

(4) the Raytheon Aerospace quality assurance inspector's failure to detect the incorrect rigging of the elevator control system;

(5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) average weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time of the accident; and

(6) the FAA's lack of oversight of Air Midwest's maintenance program and its weight and balance program.


The full narrative:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/AAR0401.pdf

The FDR was sent to the Safety Board’s laboratory for readout and evaluation. The
fire and impact damage to the exterior of the FDR prevented the data from being extracted
in the normal manner. The solid-state memory module, which was in good condition, was
extracted from the crash-protected memory case, and a new connector was attached to the
module. The module was then inserted into a surrogate F-1000 FDR, and the data were
downloaded and decompressed using the manufacturer’s software. About 95 hours of data
were recorded on the FDR, including data from the accident flight. The FDR powered up
for the accident flight just before 0825:00, and the last valid data were recorded just
after 0847:28.

The elevator control cables generally had numerous bends and kinks. Two of the
elevator AND cable’s seven spirally wound strands were completely broken and
unwound, and one strand was partially broken and unwound. (These strands were located
near the trailing edge of the wing, where the fuselage had folded toward the right wing
tip.) The unwound sections of the cable were examined at the Safety Board’s Materials
Laboratory, and no evidence of fatigue cracking or a preexisting condition was found.

The elevator trim tab control wheel was intact and was attached in the cockpit. The
pitch trim appeared to be near the full AND position. The pitch trim control cables were
broken. The control cables were in the correct orientation. The left and right drums had
their respective cables wrapped around to the middle position.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Why would they kill thier own employees?

Wouldn't they rather kill the attorneys for asbestos victims? :shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

54. Senate Judiciary Cmte. on Asbestos Legislation hearings on C-SPAN

www.cspan.org

These guys didn't make it to the hearings.

Joseph Spiak, general manager of specialty vermiculite (including the highly toxic asbestos containing Zonolite)

Paul Stidham, director of environmental health and safety

Richard Lyons, global health and safety manager.

No need to kill attorneys, just take all the money off the table,

[librechik]

52. you say that as if the fascisti are separate entities

they are the same machine, just different appendages. Especially asbestos. Notice how that industry is getting special treatment from the Bushies? Halliburton/Dresser are the asbestos kings!

[Junkdrawer]

14. Amazon link...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0975276301/qid=1105534940/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-4527544-0192824?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Dear Maggie]

16. This is a good article

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/plane.crash.minn/

[deutsey]

18. I'm not saying these articles prove anything, but

they do give me pause...Bush and Rove just have the most amazing luck when it comes to their political foes losing or dying.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20020527&s=nichols

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0424-07.htm

[seemslikeadream]

19. Plane Crashes, WR Grace, Deadly Asbestos

The Paul Wellstone crash was.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=561809

Plane Crashes, WR Grace, Deadly Asbestos, WTC Collapse & Wellstone
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID60/28856.html

Wellstone Was Murdered"American Assassination," two professors explain how
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2332485

Senator Paul Wellstone and Mozambique's President Samora Machel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2167138


W R GRACE

[Radical Activist]

24. RFK, JFK, Malcolm X, MLK, Huey Long

Why does this happen so often to mass movement leaders and not conservative ones?

[Minstrel Boy]

28. The FBI sure was fast

It's a good little book. I posted this in my blog about it in November.

Very special agents

In the recently published American Assassination: The Strange Death of Senator Paul Wellstone, there's a transcript of this curious exchange between co-author Four Arrows and Frank Hildrup, lead investigator of the National Transportation Safety Board:

FOUR ARROWS: Why was the FBI not listed as party to the investigation in the final NTSB report on the Wellstone case?

FRANK HILDRUP: They were not a party to the investigation.

FA: Then what were they doing on the scene for about 8 hours prior to the arrival of the NTSB team?

FH: I can’t say for sure, since I only took over on Monday; but maybe they were responding to the – you know – the conspiracy theories.

FA: How could there have been any conspiracy theories operating before the plane crashed?

FH: Well, uh, of course, that’s true. Well, the FBI might have been there to identify the bodies as they sometimes do in airplane accidents. I’m not really sure but there is someone with the FBI I can call who was there. I’ll get back to you about this.

FA: I’d really appreciate it. Don’t you think it strange?

FH: Well, I just know everything is above board but I do want to find out.

FA: One more question. Why no public hearing for this incident?

FH: We only have hearings for high profile cases.

There's no shortage of reasons why this exchange is curious, but chief among them is the fact that the only explanation the NTSB's lead investigator can offer for the praeternaturally early arrival upon the crash scene of the FBI is that it was responding to "conspiracy theories."

The Wellstone crash site was located by Eveleth Airport Assistant Manager Gary Ulman at approximately 11:00 AM. Ulman didn't contact the FBI, yet a team of special agents arrived to secure the site just an hour later, according to the Sheriff of St Louis County, Rick Wahlberg. Even more astonishing, the FBI contingent was from Minneapolis, not the closer Duluth, even though they had driven to Eveleth from Duluth in cars they had rented at the airport.

As authors Jim Fetzer and Four Arrows write:

The crash, you may recall, did not actually occur until about 10:20 AM and had not been visually confirmed until 11:00 AM. Ulman did not notify the FBI that there had been a crash - ever. Even if a 911 operator had notified the FBI around 11:00 AM, how in the world did these very special agents know that they needed to head for the airport by 9:28 AM in order to be in Eveleth by noon? Perhaps the FBI possesses psychic powers and can anticipate the occurances of tragedies of this kind in advance.

Good thing the FBI got an early start. Conspiracy theories are a helluva thing.

[Carl Brennan]

35. "Wellstone a hunted man"

Published on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 in the Madison Capital Times

by John Nichols

ST. PAUL — U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone had just finished rousing a crowd of 2,000 trade unionists, farmers, environmentalists and students with a fiery condemnation of George W. Bush’s free trade policies, and now he had a problem. He couldn’t get down the steps of the Minnesota State Capitol here to join the march protesting Bush’s Free Trade Area of the Americas scheme.
snip -

Most of them also asked a question: "How come Bush hates you so much?"

Let there be no doubt as to the identity of George W. Bush’s least favorite Democratic U.S. senator. It’s Wellstone, the rabble-rousing Progressive who represents not just Minnesota but what remains of the fighting populist spirit of the Upper Midwest.


As Wellstone prepares to seek a third term next year, it would be reasonable to assume that he might finally be in for some smooth political sailing. But reasonableness doesn’t figure into the calculations of the Bush White House, where the president himself, Vice President Dick Cheney and political commissar Karl Rove practice the politics of vengeance.

snip -

Other Democratic senators who face re-election contests in 2002 are, according to polls, more vulnerable than Wellstone. But the Bush camp has been focusing highest-level attention on "Plan Wellstone" — its project to silence progressive opposition.

snip -

Last Tuesday as Minnesota House Majority Leader Tim Pawlenty was just hours away from announcing his intention to mount a Republican challenge to Wellstone, he got an urgent call from Rove asking him to step aside for Bush’s preferred candidate, St. Paul Mayor Norm Coleman.

Then, on Wednesday morning, with just 90 minutes to go before his planned announcement, Pawlenty was driving his kids home from a dental appointment. The car phone rang, and Pawlenty found himself talking to Cheney. The vice president told Pawlenty that Bush did not want Coleman — a party-switching former Democrat who chaired the losing Bush presidential campaign in Minnesota — to face a difficult primary contest from a credible Republican.

More: http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0424-07.htm


The repugs have "pawlenty" to explain. :bounce:

[poe]

37. odds and ends on wellstone

it was well known in d.c. that bush the elder despised wellstone. james baker particularly despised wellstone.
the plane that wellstone perished in was the exact same model g.h.w. bush flew around in while he was in texas. the plane g.h.w. bush flew around in was the exact same plane barry seal, the famous narcotics trafficker used when flying the "stuff" into the u.s. the control panel in seal's plane had purportedly been rewired in some fashion so as to flummox radar signals. (?)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

38. every progressive i've interviewed who knew wellstone

hates the assassination theories. they've all told me that the family investigated it privately and thoroughly and that they're convinced it was an accident

[Carl Brennan]

39. ........

:eyes:

[Algorem]

41. Maybe they should share.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. They filed a lawsuit against the company that operated the plane

They did not sue the federal government or Bush.

[Algorem]

47. I meant they should share whatever facts make them sure it wasn't mur-

der(if they haven't already I mean).

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. They don't owe anything to conspiracy theorists

And I'm sure that people harping on the issue doesn't make their loss any easier.

[Algorem]

56. blah blah blah.

[YNGW]

48. Yeah Right

There's too many pilots on this site who can verify how it can very easily happen just like the NSTB said it did.

The pilot flew through the published approach and continued to descend while trying to get back on track. That's not what you do. If you have a half defection you immediately abort the landing and fly the missed approach. You definitely don't continue to descend once you're no longer established on the approach.

Why did Wellstone die? Pilot error.

[Carolab]

49. More

http://www.oilempire.us/wellstone.html

[Algorem]

51. wonder if Bushgang persuaded Raygun to fire air-traffic controllers so

they could get their people in as replacements