What the kids are saying....

[mordarlar]

My 12 year old daughter is a member of a secure children's board. She recently told me of a debate on this board the kids are having about the election. I have viewed some of these convos and these kids get intense. She wanted you guys to see what they are talking about.

Mine: I like Moore.

Other 1: Moore insulted the President without grounds and and for no other reason than to make people vote democrat.

Other 2: Actually the fact the W was in office a year before 9/11 is grounds enough. You guys insult Dems without much in the way of provocation.

Mine: First off technically Bush should not even be president. There is tons of evidence that shows he stole the last election. Second I think Moore did a great thing. We are in a war for no other reason than for Bush to impress his daddy. I mean 1000's are dead or injured every mo. because bush said there were WMD when there weren't, then he said we were there to take out Saddam and we did (which was pointless because he had no power at the time anyway) Then he said we were there to unite the Iraqi people when they would much rather be left alone. So we are just going to have to wait until he makes up another excuse for us to stay. Meanwhile Iran, where we should be at, (if we have to be anywhere) has the material to make WMD, Osama is there and they dislike the US as much as Iraq. So even though i dislike your opinion you are entitled to it. I hope you will allow me the same respect.

Other 3: Moore's movie is trash. And so are his ideas. Thanks lol

Other 3: The Dems are so biased. If they could give one bit of news, without bias and anger i would give them a penny.

Other 3: Democrats are all the same. Do you realize that even Dem news, the most biased news out there, said Moore's movie is satire. Even they said it. You want helpless people to die in Iraq? Also the ludicrous statement that Bush stole the election is a tale out of kindergarten. Hear that? KINDERGARTEN. That is the dumbest thing i have ever heard anyone say. It is almost impossible to cheat in an election. And the fact that he won by 3.5 million votes shows that even if he had it wouldn't have mattered. Man, why are you such a sore loser? Also that is a pretty heartless to say that we should have left Iraq alone. I don't see a human being so selfish.

Other 2: A marines whose unit was getting for redeployment committed suicide by cop the other day in CA. He took out a pistol, shot it in the air, went into a convenience store, told the clerk he was shot and to call the police. When they arrived he shot them both killing one and badly wounding the other. This was before they shot and killed him.

That is just one example of what Iraq is doing to our soldiers. No war is clean, but this isn't worth it. There is no justification for us going in. Afghanistan was a good one because they were actually harboring Osama and his alQa'ida Saddam would never allow Osama to come into Iraq because he could take down his government. I can't see why we are there when there are more pressing matters that need attending to (Sudan, stabilizing Afghanistan etc.)

Other 3: That happens in every war. If you don't agree with that then i am glad you are not president.

[Neoma]

1. I've seen worse

more intense stuff from kids.

they know their stuff :)

[mordarlar]

4. yes they do know more than they probably should have to.

[Carolab]

2. Clearly "Other 3" is being raised by RePUKElicans

And your kid is properly informed, with Other 2 doing pretty well too.

[shraby]

3. Has 3 seen Moore's movie?

If not, maybe he should watch it and see that a lot of it is film clips from news sources.

[mordarlar]

6. Probably not as most of them are obviously mirrors of their folks.

I have tried to instill in mine although my other two are still pretty young that they need to form opinions on their own, even if it does not match my own. But the talking points of a lot of children are really mimics of their parents. I found it amazing that the one child actually said sore loser. I warned her not to feed that line. Experience. LOL

[mordarlar]

5. She catches a lot from me screaming at the tv and comp screens lol

[Demit]

7. When I was 12, our debate was: who's better, Temptations or Miracles?

Wow, these kids know their stuff (yours in particular!)

[mordarlar]

8. She is a sharp cookie and i am very proud of her. Thanks : )

[mattclearing]

23. You would be amazed...Kids are so smart today it's outrageous.

Between video games and music and high paced multi-media, kids are smarter and quicker today than ever.

I think that's a big part of the problem with the current education system...it's not keeping up with them.

There are 14 year old kids that can write perfectly good application code, surf the net for anything, and debate the issues of their day in a way their parents could not until they were at least 30.

It's another reason why Al Gore's new endeavor is something to really get behind. If it harnesses youth and makes them a force to be reckoned with, it will no doubt amaze people.

[mordarlar]

25. They really do have a lot going on at a young age. Gore's endv?

[mattclearing]

28. Gore is starting a youth-oriented television station.

I think it's called NDTV (indie-tv). Basically youth programmed for a youth audience. The idea has mountains of potential.

[mordarlar]

30. Hell yeah it does. Wow good for him. I always liked Gore. Sad : (

[roenyc]

9. Its the same with my 11 year old grandson

but in school. he goes to a mostly republican school, but the teachers are democrats. lol of course.

the republican kids are misinformed just like their parents. they also think Saddam is responsible for the war.

When i was baby sitting him for awhile he was forced fed Randi Rhodes. i saw him yesterday and asked if he missed Randi and he said yes. lol, i was shocked. so i guess they really do want to know the truth.

11 is young for Moore's movie. but these kids seem to know more and more. maybe they should be seeing it. i dont know.

just tell your daughter she will get her satisfaction like we (my generation) did when Nixon was exposed. its a wonderful thing. and now it can only be even better then ever.

[mordarlar]

10. I took my daughter to the theater. We cried together and laughed together

She was aware that it would be difficult and i do not recommend all children this young see it. Shortly after we met the mother of one of the men that died on the bridge in the film. So horribly sad. The man i was dating grew up with him. I think my daughter was better able than i was to compartmentalize it all.

It is difficult as a mother to determine what is important to teach and what is not. You want them to have their youth yet at the same time you want them to be prepared. They may have to face the brunt of all of this. Time will tell....

[bluedonkey]

11. mordalar

I wouldn't worry too much about your daughter she seems very sure of herself.You two have a great relationship.She has love,trust and an open mind to count on.She will be fine!
I think you're a great Mom.

[mordarlar]

13. Thank you bluedonkey : ) You are very kind.

[bluedonkey]

15. you're very welcome,modalar :-)

It's very easy for me say,my childrearing days are behind me.:-)
I also know,from experience,children taken seriously and respected grow up to be great people to be around.
My son and I still have great discussions,sometimes heated,but never disrepecting.He's just so stubborn sometimes...I don't know where he gets that from ;-)

[roenyc]

12. Oh i agree i think you did the right thing

i wanted my grandson to see the movie too. i mean some of his video games are much worse.

but he is a sensitive kid like me and i didn't want him to worry about the Iraqis. (i mean that)!! when i was a kid i was a basket case i worried about the poor and would cry in school because there were people starving. that was just from those dumb commercials about you know support a kid for 10 dollars a month.

Its part of my personality i feel others pain deeply. (empath i think its called.)

OK, i think it was the dead baby that got to me. but its an important movie. i will discuss it with my daughter. maybe he and i will have a movie night.

[mordarlar]

14. I am like you. I get very affected. Getting better. : )

I raised money as a child for one of those shows lol. It is a good quality but it can be debilitating. I try to keep a healthy level of desensitization. So much pain in the world today.

Your grandson sounds like a great kid. Gives hope for the future. : )

[Quakerfriend]

16. You've got a very special daughter, Mordarlar!

My 11 yr old son has become quite the political animal! I'm very proud of his ability to grasp the facts, but he has begun some fierce debates with the fundie neighborhood kids-yikes! He has even told the 15 yo fundie next door about the Special Services System that awaits him when he registers for his drivers license!

He watched F911 with me and took it all in (minus the dead babies and etc.) and has even done some "freeway blogging" with me!

[mordarlar]

18. A little activist. :D lol Aren't they fun. Mini people. Fun age!

[neek]

17. Funny you should post this today, my son

wrote a "persuasive essay" for his 9th grade english class last night. Here is is (I'm so proud!):

Persuasive Essay

The United States of America has always prided itself on it’s democracy throughout history. Democracy is defined by the Webster dictionary as “government by the people; especially : rule of the majority “. By this definition, elections play a huge role in democracy. In fact, a democracy cannot exist without fair, unbiased elections. Looking at recent elections, there is evidence that not all citizens have been able to vote, and the results of the elections have been questioned by many. It is for those two reasons that I believe we should change the way our elections are run.
First of all, in order for people to be guaranteed the right to vote, there should be an amendment put in the constitution that gives everyone the right to vote and the right to have their vote be counted. Surprisingly, there is nothing in the constitution now that guarantees people this right. I’m sure that everyone would agree that no American citizen should be without the right to vote. This is the fundamental concept behind democracy. This must be changed.
Once every citizen has the constitutional right to vote, there has to be the hardware for this to happen. On election day, voting machines should be allocated based on the amount of people expected to vote in each voting district. In the past elections, some counties in certain states were given too few voting machines for the number of people voting. Some people even had to wait ten hours or more just to cast their vote. Many individuals who had to wait in long lines gave up and left because they had to get to work or get home to their families. They did not get to vote, while at the same time people in other counties had only a ten minute wait. To ensure that everyone has equal opportunity to voting, the voting machines must be allocated properly.
Another way to ensure fair elections, is to make sure that those that are in charge of the elections are not biased toward a particular party or candidate. In the last two presidential elections, the outcome of the election was decided in one state- in 2000 it was Florida, and in 2004 it was Ohio. The person in charge of elections in every state is the Secretary of State. In both states, the Secretary of State (Katherine Harris in Florida and Kenneth Blackwell in Ohio) were major contributors to one party’s candidate. In fact, Kenneth Blackwell was the leader of one candidate’s campaign in Ohio. In order for elections results to be trusted by all the people, those who run the elections must not have a stake in it’s outcome.
In our last election, 80% of our country used electronic voting machines to cast votes. Unbelievably, the majority of the voting machines leave no paper trail. This must be changed. The lack of a paper trail makes it impossible to verify the votes, if a recount is needed. For all we know, a vote for one candidate could be recorded as a vote for the other. Having a paper trail will not only assure each individual voter that they voted for the person they meant to vote for, but there will also be the means to recount the votes if the results are close. It is amazing that this is not a requirement in the elections. How can people feel secure that their vote was properly cast and counted if there is absolutely no way to verify it? There is no reason why having a paper trail would be difficult or expensive to do. Common machines such as ATM’s do it for every transaction. In order to have verification of election results, paper trails are a must.
Finally, another problem with the voting machines we currently use for U.S. elections is that they are manufactured and distributed by private companies. The companies could easily program the machines to switch votes from one candidate to another, like I mentioned above. It seems ridiculous that this might happen- but why not prevent that possibility altogether? Currently, all of the owners of the voting machine companies in this country are major contributors to one political party. I believe that the voting machines should be publicly owned, so the possibility of fraud is not an issue. The machines and their programs should also be checked regularly by unbiased people. This would make voting more accurate and fair.
Taking some or all of the steps I mentioned in reforming our election process would make our elections fair and verifiable. I have a hard time understanding how anyone- Republican or Democrat would resist making these changes unless they had something to hide. Making sure that everyone is able to vote and that every vote is fairly cast and counted ensures that our elected officials truly represent the people. That is the most fundamental part of our democracy.

[mordarlar]

19. Wow! Well he covered it all ; ) Very nice work. how old is he? 15?

[Quakerfriend]

20. Beautifully done!

He should get an A for that one! I hope that the rest of the class gets to read and discuss it.

[neek]

21. He's 14- going on 30

[mordarlar]

22. lol i hear ya.

[Darknyte7]

29. Very nice...

Kids are something, aren't they? There's hope! :-)

[SueZhope]

24. scary how kids

would parrot there parents in such very judgmental way.
sore loser, Democrats are all the same, bla bla bla.
That kid has no real clear argument , just name calling.
this is what we see in the adults.

[mordarlar]

26. It is a micro-version isn't it.

[Coexist]

27. My 14 year old daughter

has started watching the news and TAKING NOTES.
She said that when her republican friends say things, she knows she should have a rebuttal because it's something she asked me about, but she forgets, so now she keeps notes to help her remember.
I love that kid.

[mordarlar]

31. lol I love her too. : P

These kids give me SO MUCH HOPE!!!!!

[roenyc]

32. This is all because their parents are involved

thanks to you guys your kids are going to be active in politics. this is a great thing. back in the 60's my mom just backed lasagna (hey i cant complain). so you guys get the credit for talking to your kids.

be proud and keep up the good work. kids want to know what is going on. they know a little bit, and need you to tell them the truth.

[mordarlar]

38. thank you : )

[Peace Patriot]

33. It sounds much like some of our discussions here at DU.

Some of them. Not all. Hot, opinionated, not terribly strong on the facts (some posters). Irreconciliable differences. But I'm very glad to see that kids are taking these things seriously--elections, war policy--and I feel privileged to have "overheard" this.

I liked "Other 2" and the tragic story of the marine. Kid is strong on facts and reality.

"Other 3" seems to have missed the point that there was no justification for the Iraq war, so this marine's despair and death is NOT just something "that happens in every war." It was yet another unnecessary, unjustified, preventable death.

"Other 3" is slippery and illogical. Will likely end up president some day. Or CEO of the next Enron.

[Straight Shooter]

34. Other 3 is full of it

"Also the ludicrous statement that Bush stole the election is a tale out of kindergarten. Hear that? KINDERGARTEN. That is the dumbest thing i have ever heard anyone say. It is almost impossible to cheat in an election. And the fact that he won by 3.5 million votes shows that even if he had it wouldn't have mattered."

Are we sure this is a kid? First, Other 3 unequivocally states, "It is almost impossible to cheat in an election." What planet does this kid live on?

Then, "... even if he had it wouldn't have mattered." So, bush can cheat a little as long as he doesn't cheat a lot? :wtf:

Raise your hand if you think Other 3 is ethically challenged.

[mordarlar]

36. these kids are all 12 - 15 (unless their folks posted.)

[Moloch]

35. Your daughter is very bright.

It's too bad that freepers are indoctrinating their kids into their poisonous talking points.

[mordarlar]

37. I agree but we just teach ours better ; )