Forget SUVs, Forget McMansions, what about all those kids they have

[lectrobyte]

The two most rabid freepazoid fundy types I work with have 9 (!) and 5 kids respectively. My freepazoid brother in law has 4. Thinking about my more progressive friends, relatives and cow-orkers, most have 0 to 2 children. What's up with that? My sample size seems a bit small, but anyone else notice a trend like this?

[RPM]

1. be fruitful and multiply

they take that quite literally. God, of course, will provide.

More progressive folks will think about the ramifications of creating a life.

[SweetLeftFoot]

2. Cannon fodder

will be hoping for the rapture even as they wash their buddies off the side of a Humvee. Naturally some will rebel, of those the vast majority will become crack-heads and strippers.

[RPM]

15. or worse...

they could become "god-hating libruls"

:eyes:

guh, fundys...

[SHRED]

3. The biggest born-again freeper

I ever knew had 8 kids...got divorced...went on public aid...and still bashed the "government" and extolled the virtues of corporations.

[yardwork]

45. I know several single moms - welfare recipients - loser boyfriends

- no health insurance - drug problems - they are pretty clueless about their lives but the one thing they are sure about - "liberals are bad, m'kay?"

"Our god-fearing prezdent is a good man so stop saying anything else!" Usually followed by a volley of curses.

It's so easy to manipulate pathetic people. The Repugs know that.

[newportdadde]

4. There might be a correlation however

its wise to not get to into stereo typing. My wife has 5 brothers and sisters but her mother is a Democrat and her father votes mostly Democrat. They both wanted a large family because they themselves had been single children.

[liberalmuse]

8. Nothing wrong with that.

If you truly want and can love and provide for all your children, then I don't see the problem. Most people really don't want a half dozen kids.

The people I am around have the kids because their church tells them to. I once babysat for a lady who had 6 kids. I found out a few years later she killed herself--she was worn out and miserable, but since a woman's job in the Mormon church is to breed, that's what many do. Also, a Mormon woman can look forward to an after life of eternal pregnancy because she will be one of many wives married to a white male who became a god and who will need to populate his own worlds. I'd kill myself, too.

[yardwork]

46. By killing herself did she ensure her spot in hell? It sounds preferable

[FizzFuzz]

50. my god, what a perverted philosophy.

eternal pregnany to populate a man-turned-god's little wanky world. Oh. My. god. (and I don't even believe in an anthropomorphized god. But I haven't found a good epithet to replace "god!!" ! )

I used to know a mormon guy. His wife was a very young disabled woman. They had 6 kids. I didn't see her often but when I did, she always looked beaten down and miserable, overwhelmed, palid, sickly, and didn't much speak to anyone else. I never saw her look happy or content or confident. It was really sad--she must have looked really severly awful, now that I think of it, because I was a mess back then and might not have noticed anything subtle. He always seemed happy and confident, I didn't see him sharing the load with her. Well, I guess who wouldn't be happy, having your own personal slave and 6 little worshipful subjects....

[no_to_war_economy]

9. i am the youngest of nine

and my wife is from a family of ten - we have four kids now

it is not irresponsible to have over two kids, hey it is one way to over take the repubs - OUTNUMBER THEM!

[shanti]

54. exactly

i have four sons and am the furthest thing from a rightwinger!

[liberalmuse]

5. Oh, yes.

There's kids crawling all over the place here in Utah--also SUV's and Mini Vans, which we call 'Mormon Assault Vehicles'. I remember when I first moved back here a few years ago after having lived in Vegas. The tons of kids I'd see everywhere I went freaked me out. I mean, TONS. It's ingrained in any cult/religion that god wants you to breed like rabbits so the earth can be overrun with ignorance.

[complain jane]

6. I remember one fundie a few years ago on another board,

would tell everyone all the time that our job here on earth is to "have as many children as we physically and financially can". All of us, every goddamned last one. Told me that if I was so concerned about the plight of the earth and natural resources and enough food to go around, I should kill myself to make more room and food for her good Christian children.

[beam me up scottie]

7. Nice.

Sounds like a good canidate for a retroactive abortion. :evilgrin:

[AngryAmish]

10. Trend?

I don't have the figures handy but religous people do have more kids than secular. Red states tend to have higher birthrates. Blue state population growth comes from immigration.

Kinda makes sense. It is very expensive to have kids in the city and that tends to be most progressive areas.

BTW, 2 of my great-grandmothers had 20 kids.

[MountainLaurel]

31. Not just an issue of expense

But also of education: The more education you have, the fewer children. Because more educated people tend to settle in cities (sometimes because there aren't jobs for them elsewhere), birthrates would generally be lower there.

[Guns Aximbo]

11. There is always an exception to the rule.

I have six and if you called me a freeper I'd have to warn you that I know how to use my fists.

[Guns Aximbo]

12. Everyone asks me.... Are you Catholic?

I get that once a week. I tell them that the pope is an idiot and that his suggestion that the rhythm method doesn't work.

[girl gone mad]

72. lol.

I'm happy to hear that there are liberals with large families.

[SHRED]

13. Not irresponsible?

A lot of reponses here justifing birthing over 2 kids.

Uhmmm...the earth is overpopulated and degrading at an alarming rate. Wake up. Selfishness sucks.

[TO Kid]

20. Overpopulated and degrading?

Population growth is slowing because birthrates tend to slow down as wealth increases and infant mortality declines. That overpopulation myth was busted ages ago- remember those claims that India would never feed itself and there'd be famine in the USA by 1990? It was a total crock. As for the earth degrading, Bjorn Lomborg set off to prove just that but discovered that by virtually every available measure the quality of the environment has been steadily improving.

[CrispyQ]

26. State your sources.

Are you basing your statement on his book, "The Skeptical Enviromentalist"?

Just because overpopulation hasn't brought us down yet, doesn't mean it still won't do so. I'm curious where you get your info, cuz the articles/documents I've read states just the opposite. I wouldn't mind comparing facts to the contrary.

[theboss]

59. I read the Late Great Planet Earth

Lake Erie was supposed to be a desert by now.

Instead, you can swim in it with less worries than ever before.

[lectrobyte]

32. I'd be a little hesitant to say

"total crock" because I think we are seeing the scramble for fossil fuels and the age of peak oil, and as near as I can see, a lot of the green revolution is based on fossil fuel usage. I'm sure there are people in many parts of the world who would argue that overpopulation is not a myth. Look at Africa or China. More on fossil fuels and agriculture here:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

[TreeHuggingLiberal]

35. you know why that turned out to be a total crock about us and India not

being able to feed ourselves...because we keep tearing down the forests to make way for more agricultural ready land. We use factory farms to get as much meat as possible. It appears that very few people wonder how the earth will support a continually growing population. If we continue with no care about having 6,7,8+ children, we will strip the earth bear.

[bloom]

61. i guess you don't believe we have global warming?

or that it matters?

[CrispyQ]

24. Agreed. (in response to Shred)

Six billion miracles is enough!

[PowerToThePeople]

43. I agree

WE are VERY overpopulated as it is (the world). The problem is that the "best" way to expand your idealologies within the world sphere is to have lots of children. They will most likely latch on to the viewpoints /value system that you raised them with. There may be a few rebels in the group but overall children would tend to take their parents stances. Birthrate is the ulimate war tool...

P.S. Not planning on any children here, would imo be inhumaine to bring a child into the world as it is currently.

[wicket]

14. my liberal cousin has 10 kids

:shrug:

[bdot]

16. Where's Darwin when you need him?

It's probably because they knew the kids are not going to turn out too bright so they'll lose quite a few from stupid mistakes so they have to pop out a bunch of kids hoping 1 makes it to adulthood.

[nostamj]

17. as long as they've pledged them all to serve in *'s wars...

[GumboYaYa]

18. What I don't understand is why they feel the need to have all

those kids themselves. I can understand wanting a big family. Children are a joy to have. Nothing can top the unconditional love of a child.

My wife and I have two children now and want more, but we don't plan on procreating any more. There are so many children who have been abandonded in this world and who need love that we are planning on adopting a special needs child. If fundies want more kids, they should show some charity and adopt children who need families rather than continuing to overpopulate the world.

[LisaLynne]

19. You rule, dude.

That's one of my problems with it. There are so many children that need loving homes. If you really love children, why not open your home to children who have no other home? What greater gift could you give to another human being or to our society at large?

People have the right to have children, but I am suspicious of those who must have (as someone else said) all of them by themselves. There is a trend in the Fundamentalist Christian communities to have as many children as possible. From the research I've done, it comes out of a racist fear that white people will be the minority, among other thoughts. Which is silly, because majority status is not all about numbers. But, that's a debate for another thread. So, it's really not, for these people, JUST about having kids. There's something else at work.

[RPM]

21. religious pyramid scheme

must create new follower from which to loot.

The religious fundies and economic fundies both premise their power base on exponential growth that can not be created by a replacement population policy.

[CrispyQ]

27. Like a fundie co-worker once said...

"I don't want a stranger living in my house!"

I have an ex-friend who had a very difficult time getting pregnant & I asked why they didn't consider adoption. "Because we may end up with a homosexual child." That was the last time I spoke to her.

These people have a preverted sense of charity.

[formernaderite]

22. In my blue state you see very few large white families....

...even black family sizes are decreasing. However, many hispanic families perhaps because they are Catholic, still average 4 or more.

[underpants]

23. Carson, Justin, Taylor, Palmer, Cody, and Jordan?

Why they are miracles just like Dawn's kids Carson, Justin, Taylor, Palmer, Cody, and Jordan

[girl gone mad]

73. you forgot Madison and Dakota. n/t

[pippin]

25. Fundy women tend to be less intelligent and/or

kept more firmly to ideas about what it means to be "feminine." The women who are fundies in my classes tend to be more passive and more more willing to adhere to outmoded gender roles. Lots of them are more prone to becoming pregnant "accidentally" and don't seem to think women should take any responsibility or control of their reproductive rights. One woman I know has had not one but FOUR children all by different men. Her oldest daughter got pregnant at 16 and her 15 year old sister looks as if she is headed the same way. The intergenerational pattern that is perpetuated is quite frightening. More frightening is the fact that the mother's current boy friend sees nothing wrong with this history of unrestrained begetting and praises the woman for the fact she has never been married!! How this all ties in with the fundy trumpeting of "family" or "moral" values is all puzzling to me.

It's not the having children bit that I am against--it's the absence of a sense of civic responsibility attached to having and raising children that bothers me most.

[Bouncy Ball]

28. Yes I have noticed.

Though generalizations are always just that, and you can always find exceptions to the rule, I am hard pressed to think of a single fundie family I know who has fewer than three kids. I can't even think of one with two.

My husband and I have one. We know loads of couples with one or no kids. They are ALL liberals.

[Bouncy Ball]

29. I do want to add

I know a great liberal family who live one city over who has ten kids. But they adopted nine of them.

So, there ya go.

[txaslftist]

37. Now you do...

My brother is a 'rapture ready' fundamentalist wacko with only two children.

[NewJeffCT]

30. I've been saying that since I joined DU

The Fundies are trying to breed us out of existence, or at least into irrelevance.

[amazona]

33. yes we've all noticed that

Ultimately there is no hope for the future of the world because the hysterics and hate-mongers will always out-breed the thoughtful people who think of each child as a well-considered individual.

This is why, unpopular a view as it is, I strongly support legislation that would limit each person's right to reproduce. After a woman has given birth to, or a man has fathered, two children, that individual should be sterilized. We have DNA testing so we can be sure that men don't get away with spreading their seed while only limiting women's ability to reproduce. We have the technology. And we have safe sterilization techniques.

We just lack the will to implement it. So, in the end, all causes are lost because we will end up eating the entire biosphere.

All we can do is clear a little space for the next few decades but there is no real hope for a long-term future because no one in the public eye would dare to speak for, much less press for, such an unpopular stance.

People say it limits freedom but what freedom is there in a world where everyone is trapped in a high rise and there is no green to be seen but Soylent Green? Your freedom to breed unchecked steals the freedom of thousands of species to exist.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[American Tragedy]

51. I would just appreciate it if they would make contraception affordable

for everybody, especially young women who are short on money.

I would like to have an IUD, but it costs about $400. Granted, it is a long-term investment in birth control, but I am tighter right now financially than I have ever been, and probably ever will be in my entire life.

[AngryAmish]

56. I would go a step further

People with repellant and hateful idealogies (re Repubs, Fundies etc.) should not be allowed to breed at all. Local committees of right thinking people will make these decisions.

[pnb]

66. Hitler would have been proud of that comment

n/t

[jokerman93]

34. Fodder for the army of God

The crusades have traditionally been generational wars. We're back to the middle ages folks. Pack up the rug rats and send 'em off to kill the heathen scum and establish the Kingdom of Jeebuz on Urth.

[txaslftist]

36. What a ridiculous idea...

that the number of kids you have is in some way related to your political beliefs.

The factors that enter into the decision to have children and how many to have are numerous and complicated. The factors entering into what political belief system to espouse are equally complicated, equally numerous and very much different.

Lets try not to put people into boxes. That's what freepers do and we're supposed to be more intelligent than that. One of my best friends was one of the most liberal people I'd ever met. An orthodox jew with 11 children, all of them on their way to being just as liberal as he was.

That's thirteen staunch dems in one nuclear family. Use your head before you post such silliness.

[BeTheChange]

39. When talking about Christians...

Stereotyping and generalizations are the way to go, didnt ya know?

As a Christian who has 12 aunts and uncles on my mother's side, all strong dems and good people (and raised catholic at that) Im so glad I dont paint others into a picture created only by MY limited world view and biases.

And another thing, Im so unbelievably glad to have such a big family since community seems to consist of judging everyone who isnt you nowadays.

[lectrobyte]

42. Like I said, my sample size is small. I live in the South, so take

that at face value. I'm glad to get your perspective. Do you think folks should be encouraged to have as many children as possible?

[tx_dem41]

47. I just think that...

people should have as many kids as they choose to have. Period. No politics. No public policy.

[BeTheChange]

75. I think...

If a couple wants to have 10 kids and raise them in a loving and stable environment to be good and decent people and are financially capable then they should by all means have that many.

At this point in my life, although I would desperately love to have a large family (I was an only child), I dont feel that the status of the world is such that I should.

I simply dont choose to dictate anyone's reproductive choices. I also dont think that someone who chooses not to have children or has an abortion is a bad person. And I dont judge them based on it. Everyone has unique lives and reasons that unless I walk in their shoes I cant always understand.

[lectrobyte]

40. I wasn't trolling, but did feel curious about how folks felt about

people with large families...

I'm really not trying to put people in boxes, apologies, I probably
should have put more thought into the way I started this thread, sorry. I was just curious after all the discussion about cars and housing about how people felt about folks with large families. After all, the family with 9 kids seems like more of an impact (economically, ecologically, you name it) than the one with one or two.

Personally, I'd like there to be dis-incentives to such large families, but I'm not ready to outlaw more than 2 or anything like that as someone suggested.

[Phentex]

44. Agree. The Bushies I know have either 1 or 2 children....

and they got the SUV because they needed more room for their stuff. And they are adding on to their large homes because they need more room for their stuff. And they won't have more kids cause then they couldn't afford to give them more stuff....

I just don't see the stereotype of freeper = more kids.

[Fescue4u]

38. Maybe thats why they outvote us to.

There's just more of them having more kids.

Im sorry...this whole thread is asine.

[meganmonkey]

41. It's kind of unfortunate, though

Many of the real progressives that I know have very few or no children. My S/O and I don't plan on having kids either, but sometimes we worry that if this really is a trend, it is bad news for the future of America, assuming kids end up like their parents. Woe is me! Am I irresponsible for not multiplying?
Well, here's to hoping their kids turn into flaming liberals!

[American Tragedy]

48. I myself do not have children, nor do I intend to, but I can't begrudge

others who do as long as they are able.

My great-grandparents were extremely liberal, eccentric German Catholics, who were fruitful and multiplied substantially. My grandparents, progressive Catholics as well and truly wonderful people, had eight children, including my mom. Those children also had children of their own, all of whom wound up being actively liberal too. Thus, the maternal side of my family has united and produced dozens of Democrats from every generation!

[Squatch]

49. What we need here at DU is

a list of things that we, as liberals, are supposed to hate or lump in with "freepazoids". So far I have:

1) Walmart
2) SUVs
3) Families with >2 kids
4) Homes > 1000 sf
5) Christians

What did I miss? We can print this list out on a credit-card sized piece of paper and refer to it whenever there's a question...

[PowerToThePeople]

53. Simple..

One thing that lumps it all together...

"Me Me Me!!" Attitude without a care how it affects others or the world as a whole.

[lukasahero]

55. Southerners

Franchise restaraunts
Rich people ($ limits may vary)
Moderate/Centrist Dems

Not sure these belong on the "freepazoid" list but they certainly belong on the "You don't belong here if you are x" list:

Gays who want their rights to remain a priority on the party platform
Women who won't equivocate over their reproductive rights
Anyone who isn't willing to adopt the Republican playbook in order to "win"
And basically anyone who doesn't look, sound, speak or think like "us"

BTW, I got your sarcasm. Hopefully, everyone else will get mine.

[theboss]

60. Private schools, fraternities, Hummers, Southerners, Nascar fans

Fans of Oprah.
Toby Keith fans.

[Squatch]

64. I am a HUGE fan of Hummers

Why does everybody hate hummers? They're supposed to be enjoyable.

You know, like taking a ride in a nice SUV.

[DireStrike]

67. Uh... what?

Were you actually trying to make a point, or was that a joke? I can see no logic in it, so for now I'll assume it was a joke.

[theboss]

68. Hummer has a double meaning

I get jokes.

[DireStrike]

69. OH! Alright. lol.

[Dunedain]

74. Damn

I guess I'm a hated freepazoid.

Oh well, I'm hungry, any body got some chips?

[FizzFuzz]

52. 6 Billion "miracles" is enough.

Overpopulation kills.

[Midlodemocrat]

57. I have three

...and if not for health problems and advanced age, I would have had more. I have always loved kids and given that my three are turning out okay so far, I don't think it is irresponsible to have more than two.

[EC]

58. Tax exemptions...

I had a boss with 9 kids, he said he had them because then he pays no taxes...he was being totally serious too...

[theboss]

62. My dad's best friend has 10 brothers and sisters

And their house had three bedrooms (the parents, of course, got one since they were really busy in it).

As far as I know, they are all Dems. But generalizing is fun.

[deadparrot]

63. I'm in a Catholic HS...

I have a fairly good friend with 6 siblings, and the mother of another girl in my class is pregnant with her 12th child. In my carpool are two sisters, and they have six kids in their family.

Hell, my grandfather had 9 kids from his first marriage. That's way too many step-uncles/aunts/cousins.

Many, many people at my school have 4+ siblings. I've only got my one brother, so I feel a little left out.

But that's Catholicism for you. :)

[DireStrike]

65. E.D. Hill, fox news Broodmare Extraordinaire

She's on like her 5th kid at least.

[vetwife]

70. Wow...

I can't believe some of the posts. I believe a person should have as many children as they # 1 can financially afford and #2 health wise to their bodies not deteremental.
and 3 tolerant to have. My goodness, if people want big familes...That is what Freedom is about. Planning what you can afford and taking care of what you have. I had one child and adopted three. I don't think people should have kids they can't Take care of or kids they will abuse. Now anything short of this..I don't get. Glad my husband's Mom didn't stop at 2. I wouldn't have my husband. He was number 6 out of 7 and she lived very well. She worked hard and they had hard times together but she and her husband wanted children. They also took in cousins and others who did not have it so well.
My uncle delivered 9000 babies in my hometown in the 50's. I wrote an article about it. He was the old time doc. He took in chickens and eggs for pay. I am sure most could not afford much but a family and who is to deny people of that? Not me said the Little red hen.

[girl gone mad]

71. My freeper brother in law has 3 kids.

2 of them illegitimate.

[BamaGirl]

76. I think this is more a

generational thing than political or religious. A friend and I were actually talking about this a few days ago. My parents are Boomers and had two kids. Almost all the kids I knew growing up with were either only children or one of two. I have three. My brother will soon have three. Almost all our friends have three or ::gasp:: more. I have one or two Rep. friends, but by and large, these people are Democrats. We seem to be having more kids than our parents. Some people may be having more kids because of religious belief, but I don't think it's a majority.