MLK: Prophetic words on the Christian Church's slide into irrelevancy

[Sandpiper]

"Things are different now. So often the contemporary church is a weak, ineffectual voice with an uncertain sound. So often it is an archdefender of the status quo. Far from being disturbed by the presence of the church, the power structure of the average community is consoled by the church's silent and often even vocal sanction of things as they are."

"But the judgment of God is upon the church as never before. If today's church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust."


Letter From Birmingham Jail
April 16, 1963

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. A social club, with an agenda to keep people from making choices for

themselves.... at least that's how the fundagelical ones work.

-------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Warpy]

2. Jesus was a RADICAL

which is why the rich and dogmatic of his day had him killed.

Any church which doesn't espouse his radical teachings of tolerance, mutual respect, compassion, unconditional love, and yes, income redistribution is only the thief of his name.

[IrateCitizen]

3. Jesus wasn't an advocate of income redistribution....

Jesus perceived money as something that was of the earth, not of God, and also something that could propel men toward evil. He didn't call upon the rich to permit the state to redistribute their money to the poor -- he called upon the rich to give away their money, and turn instead toward a life of spiritual enlightenment that would bring them closer to God.

You're confusing the spiritual dialectic of Christ with the material dialectic that rules modern society. The two are not interchangeable. If we instead looked to follow the spiritual dialectic taught by Jesus, the need for income redistribution would become moot because all the earth's bounty would be shared amongst all its inhabitants.

Jesus was certainly not capitalist, but nor was he socialist or communist. If anything, early Christian communities inspired by the teachings of Jesus were communitarian, sharing equally among all members but unconcerned with material wealth or possession.

[Warpy]

6. "Give all that you have to the poor and follow me"

[IrateCitizen]

9. Once again, that's not income redistribution...

That's a complete rejection of a material dialectic in favor of a spiritual one that places concern for "the least among us" at its center.

Trying to attach material concerns to Jesus's teachings only serves to dilute the message he was trying to send. Like I said, if the true nature of Jesus's spiritual dialectic were followed, there would be no need for income redistribution, because all people would see that the poor, the sick, and the disabled were cared for by all of us.

[DireStrike]

8. Jesus: If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast and give to the

poor.

Matthew 19: 21-24

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me.
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.



That's income redistribution. It doesn't matter how it gets done. Just like "a series of actionable items" is a plan, no matter what Condi would say.

[IrateCitizen]

15. That's not "income redistribution", it's a spiritual transformation...

If you want to get at the heart of this matter, look to the two laws that Jesus said were the most important: love your God before all else, and love your brother as yourself.

If someone loves their fellow human being as they would love themselves, then "income distribution" is a moot point. Anyone who was rich in material wealth would willingly give to the poor, because if they didn't they would be rejecting their fellow man, something that would violate the dictates of Jesus.

Referring to it as "income redistribution" puts the focus on a material dialectic, which is where it does NOT belong, in this case. The focus must be on a SPIRITUAL dialectic. This is also at the heart of the statement made my Jesus that man cannot love both God and money -- inevitably he will come to love one while hating the other.

[greyfox]

4. The church needs to be militant again....

It is far passed time for the church (the born-again, baptized, sanctified, Holy Ghost-filled, fervent servant of God) to be militant again! She was at one time in history, praise God ... people knew that the church meant business for God. The lost knew that, to face a Christian was to face DEATH ... death to sin, death to self, death to sickness and disease, death to doubt and unbelief ... and they trembled before her... and got saved in the process. We were militant for Jesus, the anointed of God! We were a powerful army marching across this land and there are thousands, yea, millions who are glad we were.

BUT, we have let down our defenses in the face of the folly of satan who began to scream "intolerance" and "let live" and "anyway is okay as long it all leads to being kind one to another", etc ad nauseum! God forbid! We are not even PROTESTants anymore...just non-Catholics! We PROTEST nothing anymore in our churches and in our lives as Christians ...

We say "Oh, I have a VISION..." Why, not even ol' Gideon got in any trouble for having his vision! It is ACTION that stirs hell and its demon forces and

gets them whipped! GO...DO.. those are the marching orders of the church!

I am a FAITH preacher, you better believe that! BUT, while power is good,

miracles are real and precious, healing is ours today as yesterday for He changes not, the gifts are real and wonderful and powerful...all these we MAY have as Christians (they are God's to give us and He does!)...but what we MUST have is a MESSAGE! (That message is the good news..the GOSPEL of life, death, burial and resurrection of our Lord as preached in 1 Corinthians 15).

Not popular preaching in the 90's? SO? "We want to keep harmony in the church, home and in business, etc...and that stuff is not my business!" Well, what IS your business, church? People are dying and splitting hell wide open every day because we are not militant (fervent) anymore as we once were! We WILL answer before the just God one day, church...CHRISTIAN!!!!

To KNOW they are lost and yet neglect to share because we are afraid they will think we are not "tolerant" is damning to us ... and, most of all, to them! It is a shame to us as a people...God's people! We scream that we are a Christian nation when we get slandered... but we have stopped being MILITANT and FERVENT... and do not think the world does not know it!

Know this: The Bible still says without repentance..." How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" Escape what? The wrath of God against sin.

Well, Brother, we are not militant because we are not at war!

NOT at WAR? My God, how plain can God make it for us... how PLAIN can satan make it for us? We are constantly in spiritual warfare... we have been TOLD to get up every single day and put on the FULL armor of God that we might be able to resist satan and his silly imps...fiery darts come our way daily (just get on these subs and see what silly little darts are thrown! In fact, watch for the darts which come from BOTH sides of the army at this post!) It shows how
FAR we are removed from the miltancy we once had as THE church of God!

Paul got busy and we should, too! Paul was a city-wide shaker, glory to God! When he preached, he ransacked Asia Minor! He messed up markets! He stirred synagogues! He flamboozled the Pharisees! Hallelujah! After his revival in Macedonia, they were NEVER the same! Anywhere the Gospel is preached with fervency and militant Christians take up the banner of the cross, it SHAKES hell and it shakes people!

The church today has become like the sons of Sceva in Acts 19... trying to cast out demons in someone else's name (cults abound, new ages, wiccy wacky, mormonism, LDSism, maryism, buddhism, anything-but-truthism, etc) ... and the world is saying "Jesus I know, and Paul I know...but WHO are YOU!?"

Who are you, church? Are you known in hell today? It's time to establish our name (in Jesus!) again church... stand up! STAND UP!!!! I want satan to wake up every morning screaming "Oh noooooooooooooooo.... the Christians are up again!" And

I want that for the church of the living God!

[renaissanceguy]

7. Ok that post was scary.

What are you trying to say--that people should be beaten up or killed for not being Christian? That you have to use more force to get people to believe your way?

Fundies need to understand that not everyone is going to agree with them. You can hold a knife up to somebody, but it won't make them believe as you do. I despise any church or person who does not respect everyone's right to their own faith (or lack thereof).

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14741193

[greyfox]

11. Certainly not....

this is NOT a physical battle I speak of... it is a spiritual battle and I meant ALL churches, all Christians -- we have been beat down and taken it wayyyyyyy too long... Jesus went in and cleansed the temple; He was no pansy... he took matters in Hand. The church (all believers) needs to do the same --- stand up and be counted...

Fir instance, the Shrub is NOT one of us... the fruits he displays show us that... he may talk it, but he definitely does not walk it... we need to stand up and say so... make him and his ilk accountable... stop putting him on a pedestal and worshipping him... he is FAR from worthy (as we all are, but we do not ALL lead the country)...

Militancy in the spiritual --- not the physical.

[SemperEadem]

10. are you saying you advocate

burning people at the stake for not believing as you believe?

this 'war' is a figment of your imagination. Unless you're willing to burn people at the stake for heresy, you should not worry yourself about 'making windows into men's souls.'

[greyfox]

12. Sorry, but you are in error....

for the Word lets us KNOW that there is a spiritual battle going on moment by moment - and the church IS responsible for gearing themselves up and fighting that war.

[SemperEadem]

13. for a book

that went through extensive rewriting in the 16th and 17th centuries, the text you use is suspect at best, due to the control of the church and crown and wars of religion in the Reformation/counterreformation.

And just because 'you say so' doesn't make it so.

Still, I ask: are you prepared to bring back burning at the stake for heretics? In this country, we are free to not believe what you insist upon.

[greyfox]

14. That's right...

you are free to reject the teaching of the Word and use that excuse (that it has been translated blah blah blah)... but see, we (Christians) realize that God is infinitely wiser than we are and is fully able to maintain the meaning of His Word through the translations...
But, the FACT remains that, while you may reject it, we (Christians) are not free to stop presenting it... it is a vert REAL mandate (not like the Shrub's ;) ) ... no one is saying beat a person down; I am saying minister in love what the WORD says... if then they reject the Word, we have our admonition to go the edge of the city and dust our feet --- it would be better for the city of Sodom and Gamorah than for those who finally reject...

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. And that was before the pedophile scandals.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. MLK was calling on the 1963 church, and I think he meant

the black church in particular, to actively support civil rights. But Christian preachers of all denominations are always challenging Christians to live up to their calling, to be better people and to do more for others. Society will never be perfect so there is always more to be done.

There will always be people who draw strength from their Christian faith and live it. They'll see MLK's words as a call to do more.

There will also always be people who are disillusioned with Christianity because their church "wasn't good enough." They will look at what MLK said as an excuse for their choice to abandon Christianity. They forget that the only way to make a church better is from the inside. (Or, to take an easier path, that there is a better church down the road. Not everyone is called to reform a church.)

[Sandpiper]

17. Actually he was calling out the White Church in particular

n/t

[H2O Man]

18. Correct.

The letter from the jail cell was specifically in response to clergy who had spoken out against his activities. The letter was not directed at the black churches that supported him. People should read the entire letter.