Pope bemoans unholy smoke

[emad]

John Hooper in Rome
Friday January 14, 2005
The Guardian

Usually with one hand on the horn and another gesturing out of the window, Romans lament their city's gridlocked, polluting traffic.
But yesterday they received confirmation from a higher authority that it really is as bad as they imagined: even the Pope despairs of it.

"What can one say of the city traffic?" he sighed at an audience yesterday. "Every year it becomes more congested and tiresome." His words were directed at local officials who were making their annual new year visit to the Vatican.

The Pope, who is also Bishop of Rome, congratulated them on their achievements, but also highlighted two problems - drug addiction and the traffic.

"This is the cause of notable difficulties in the daily lives of many individuals and families," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1390285,00.html

[LiberalEsto]

1. It would be less congested

if he and the RC Church weren't so dead-set against birth control.

Hey, Mr. Pope, do you see the inconsistency here?

[DemBones DemBones]

2. Don't know much about Italy, do you? Their birth rate is

the lowest in Europe. Most Italian women have only one child. Those who have two are balanced out by those who have none.

[LiberalEsto]

3. No, I do know that.

But that doesn't stop people from all over the world from traveling to European cities and making them more crowded.

I just don't think the Pope, of all people, has any right to complain about congestion. I'm sure if he had his way, every woman in Italy would have 10 or 11 kids.

[Bridget Burke]

5. Does lack of birth control make European cities crowded?

Or do the people come for the food, the culture, the jobs, etc.?

The Italians listen to the Pope & do as they wish in private. As do most Catholics.

The Pope has the right to say anything he wishes. You have the right to make any response you like. And your responses may well cause further opinions to be expressed.

[FightinNewDem]

12. Here we go

A thread contains the Pope's name, and its off to the races with the anti-Catholic bigots.

[BUSHOUT]

4. I just got back. My wifes cousins all have multiple brothers and sisters.

And they're gen X. Go back another generation and it's usually more than 4 siblings each family.
One of her cousins has 6 kids and is expecting.

In Italy many men want wives and children.

Where did you get your info from?

[Bridget Burke]

7. Here's some information.....

Most people when they think of population think of a population explosion. However, in much of the developed world, such as in Italy, the population is not increasing but decreasing, and decreasing dramatically. This fact is as revolutionary as it is unheralded. Dubbed "The Birth Dearth" it's the phenomenon of birth rates and fertility rates falling very far and very fast. In fact, there is no longer a single country in Europe where people are having enough children to replace themselves when they die. Women are having fewer children and the potential implications--environmental, economic and personal--are both unclear and clearly monumental.

From a PBS production with many details specific to Italy.

www.pbs.org/sixbillion/italy/italy.html

I'm sure there are areas where the people are more conservative & old fashioned, but the trend is towards fewer children.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. I got my information from reports about the overall fertility in Italy,

which is obviously not like your wife's family. The Italians I know personally (those who are of childbearing age) have only one or two children as well but I wasn't generalizing from them.

Since World War II, Italians have immigrated to cities, not only contributing to congestion but leading to their desire to live well, which can only be achieved by having a small family at most. It's difficult for young families to find a place to live in or near cities where they work and everything costs a lot. Some of the same factors have caused a decline in U.S. fertility rates as well, and among Catholics as well as everyone else.

[theboss]

11. Pretty much all of the "first" world is experiencing declining populations

The US is the only "Western" country experiencing population growth, and that is only due to immigration from Latin America and Asia.

Old Link, but a good place to start:

In the year 2000, the total population of the Europe will reach its peak accounting for 729.3 million, of whom 306.6 million in Eastern Europe, 93.7 million in North Europe. 144.8 in Southern Europe, and 184 million in Western Europe. The annual rate of population growth in Europe declined from 0.44% to 0.16% between 1985-1990 and 1990-l995 and is projected to reduce to 0.03% during 1995-2000. After the year 2000, annual rate of total population growth will be negative and continue to decline from -0.08% during 2000-05 to -0.24 during 2020-25.


http://www.unhabitat.org/habrdd/trends/europe.html

[theboss]

6. Congratulations: you've won the coveted "Stretch of the Week" award

The main problem in Rome is that you can't dig for a sewer line without three members of the Department of Antiquities looking over your shoulder.

[DemBones DemBones]

9. LOL, now that's the truth! But I'm glad the Italian government

protects antiquities. The things they have to protect are marvellous.

[theboss]

10. Oh, they absolutely have to do it...

I mean, it's Rome!

But I have a friend who is an attorney there and it is next to impossible to build a shed in the backyard, let alone an expressway.

"I am sorry, sir, but you wish to build your in-ground jacuzzi on top of the tomb of The Apostle Paul's hairdresser. This cannot be. Ciao!"

[FightinNewDem]

14. Not just in Italy

In New Orleans, there is the Vieux Carre Commission, which attempts to tightly control the historic character of the French Quarter, yet can't stop the flood of tacky t-shirt shops...

And in New England, many small towns have Historic District Commissions, people who PJ O'Rourke (a NH resident) said would order clapboard shutters if a guy unzipped to take a leak...

[theboss]

15. Historical societies are a slightly different animal

They are generally limited to a certain part of town and have more to do with decor than anything else. I mean, I've seen 7-11s with colonial fronts in historical districts. They don't stop development as much as they just make it ridiculously expensive.

In Europe and particularly Italy, there are places where you can't dig a hole for a well without calling the Archaeology Dept at the local university first.

[youngred]

13. That is ridiculous

Italy has one of the lowest (if not the) birthrates in Europe and Rome is an ancient city, it wasn't meant to accomodate a lot of traffic. Everyone knows how much Italians like to drive and how well they drive.

the church can be blamed for it's opposition to BC, yes, but to say the Pope is inconsistant because of this is ludicrous