Let's speak of Gaia

[burythehatchet]

My understanding of the philosophy of Gaia is rather limited, but that won't stop me from commenting on it.

As I understand, Gaia is a concept that states the Earth is one living organism. I happen to agree with that. Maybe my logic is strained, but all life depends upon the chemical and biological cycles that accompany life, death and rebirth. Those processes can take place only with the physical Mother Earth as the host, the catalyst, the energy provider, and the designer.

I believe that there are many many earth-like planets out there, in a dimension that is beyond contemporary understanding. Although string theory comes as close to that realization than ever before.

All that is upon Earth in its natural form is a perfectly self-correcting and self-healing entity. Plate shifts, hurricanes, avalanches, floods, fires, are all events that accompany earth on the path towards equilibrium.

If you allow yourself to agree in principle with this belief, where does that leave the human race? What role do we play? Are we a parasitic infection, a tumor that could kill earth? Or are we a superior life form placed here to exercise dominion upon the natural universe? Or something else?

[Cleita]

1. We would seem to be a species bent on destroying the earth

it seems at times. I think we need to respect this planet because she does give us life and sustains us. If we make her sick or even destroy her, we will succeed in destroying ourselves and taking all the other species with us. Then the earth will be just another moonlike satellite orbiting the sun.

[TolstoyAndy]

5. We are a virus

Or more precisely, modern global consumerist culture is a virus.

It is possible to be a human being and live in harmony with Gaia,
but now the dominant culture is one that kills it.

[htuttle]

12. I think it's more like a cancer

...since it involves normal cells and 'organs' (species) gone rogue, not an outside influence like a virus.

And it needs to go into remission, fast.

[alarimer]

16. or parasite

Living off the organism but giving nothing back. Think tapeworm. Eventually the organism dies (then so does the parasite).

[burythehatchet]

10. I wish you were wrong

but I share those sentiments.

[junker]

2. universe supports humans. It is obvious.

We would not be as we are, without universe support/nurture.

Humans have been a part and parcel of living gaia for at least 9 million years in spite of what TPTB have had you taught about a 'brief' stint here on earth. So clearly universe would have at humans thrive such that sufficient numbers exist to provide the 'carry level' into the future no matter what 'disasters' impact them from gaia's activity.

Only the foolish have so narrow a view as to see humans separate from universe. They are the ones who need to persue reading synergetics.

As to future, yes, some number of humans will survive our present predicament to carry the species forward. Hopefully a bit more integrated philosphically.

[burythehatchet]

3. curiosity

What makes you believe that 9 million years is a long time? It's a long time if you're waiting for the bus, its not a long time in the history of the Earth and the solar system and the universe.

[McKenzie]

4. interesting topic

western scientific thought is not geared up to acceptance of the holistic principles of the theory. We tend to rely on reductionist models in undertaking scientific analysis and that has lead to some startling advances in our understanding. However, there are processes that defy reductionist analysis. For example, Fritjof Capra's "The Turning Point" (ISBN 0 00 654017 1) contains a number of discussions on this subject including a commentary on our inability to understand embryogenesis using reductionist models.

I don't want to introduce god via the back door here. That said, the complexity of the world and the inter-relationship of biological organisms with one another suggests that failure of the life proccesses to integrate with one another would lead to chaos. Life is self organising and we know that but even scientists talk about nature's ability to regulate itself. The sheer complexity of the inter-relationships between the vast number of living organisms suggests that something has to impose order or the whole thing would collapse into chaos.

Eastern mystical tradition has always based itself on holistic principles; I posted a bit about this a few days ago. The parallels between quantum mechanics and eastern mysticism/philosophies are very interesting. Quantum theory deals with the interconnections between things, essentially holism - western thought processes are based upon reductionism. That might be why we are generally unable/unwilling to accept the principles forwarded by the Gaia theory.

I do believe firmly in evolution and I don't believe in deities btw.

[burythehatchet]

6. thanks for the thoughtful post

reductionist based scientific methodology does indeed help us understand some things better, but in a way, it prevents us from attaining higher understanding.

Along the lines of your drawing a correlation between quantum mechanics and Eastern philosophy, ny dad once said something that I won't forget. We were watching Star Trek (around '74 or '75 and my dad commented that Spock's philosophy is essentially Hindu philosophy (not religion).

To turn this topic political, by our leaders encouraging us to discontinue out humanly quest for higher meaning, we remiain stuck in the mud. but we digress...

[McKenzie]

8. higher understanding and evolution

if we accept that all species get those attributes that ensure their continued survival it is not unreasonable to infer that our love of beauty, our compassion, and all the other behaviours that aren't strictly necessary are there for a very good reason. Taking a strictly "survival of the fittest" approach the aforementioned traits are unnecessary. We could probably have advanced to a very high level of intelligence without being compassionate, loving beauty and so on.

My own view, albeit a lay one, is that nurturing those "unnecessry" traits is the key to the next evolutionary step and that is unlocking the huge potential of the human brain. It's damned big relative to the bit we actually use so I often wonder why we "got" such capacity. Our present pre-occupation with lower thought processes suppresses our potential I reckon. Maybe unlocking the brain will lead to a species that has evolved beyond war, pointless materialism and the whole demonolgy of nastiness we see today.

[burythehatchet]

11. you mean, love is the answer?

:)

[htuttle]

13. Love is all you need

...along with a steady supply of oxygen, clean water, carbohydrates, fats, proteins and a few score elements.

:)

on edit: Forgot vitamins and minerals. Can't forget vitamins and minerals!

[htuttle]

7. It's about pattern recognition and really arrogance

Humans have a remarkable ability to deny the existence of larger patterns sometimes. We, and all advanced life on the planet, are cooperative communities of many, many individual cells. Some might even say that each cell is a symbiotic relationship between a mitochondria and the rest of the cell.

Considering that most humans end up replacing most of their individual cells about every seven years, we are more like replenishing patterns of individuals.

You can't really separate humans from their environments, either. Drop a naked human into space, and see how long they live. Humans need constant interaction with the Earth's biosphere to stay alive, just as any cell in your body needs constant interaction with the rest of the systems in your body. Other than our uncanny ability to utilize our thumbs to make use of the inorganic material on the planet, we seem as connected to the biosphere as any cell in your body is connected to 'you'.

But it's hard for people to accept that. They like to think they are the 'top of the pyramid', so to speak.

So, is the Earth, 'alive'? Yes, of course. If a tree is considered 'alive' then the biosphere could certainly be considered 'alive'. The processes of the biosphere are far more complicated than those of a single tree. Our biosphere hasn't reproduced yet, one of the common tests for 'life', but not all individuals reproduce. Maybe reproducing the biosphere is 'our function'. Whether it's our function or not, it seems to be within the biosphere's ability, through us.

But is the Earth 'sentient'? I don't know. Is your dog 'sentient'? What is 'sentience'? Does a thing have to be sentient to be 'alive'? No, see answer above. Trees are not sentient, yet are still alive (apologies to all the druids out there -- I might be wrong...who knows -- my wife disagrees with me about trees).

Does the Earth 'care' about our welfare? See answer about sentience, but do you care about the welfare of the individual cells in your body? As individuals, or as a group in general? How much do you mourn an individual cell?

Is the biosphere 'a god'? Am 'I' a god to the cells in my body? Questions, questions for a cold Saturday afternoon!

on edit: speling

[burythehatchet]

9. hey, you gotta do something today besides watch football.

interestingly, this topic got started when I was overcome by the perfection of a tree. Perfectly at peace with Earth, living, breathing, reproducing, and providing me with food for thought on a Saturdat afternoon, before the Jets kick Steeler ass. YEAH...sorry....

[HeeBGBz]

14. Either fleas or a virus

The earth will shake like a big wet dog and scratch off some of us.

[Al-CIAda]

15. Chaos Gaia Eros: A Chaos Pioneer Uncovers the Three Great Streams of Histo

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chaos Gaia Eros: A Chaos Pioneer Uncovers the Three Great Streams of History
BACK COVER #
In this eclectic and interdisciplinary work, chaos pioneer Ralph Abraham traces the history of consciousness through a rediscovery of the three forces that drive it: chaos, gaia, and eros--the mind, body, and spirit of evolution. With startling originality and clarity of vision, Abraham employs photographs, timelines, charts, and an engaging format to sweep the reader along on this wild ride through math, science, mythology, and philosophy, and the whole of history.
B Sure to fascinate the poet, scientist, philosopher, and historian in all of us, Chaos, Gaia, Eros is a mind-bending masterwork that reunites the chaotic and mythological forces of human history and blows the doors off existing modes of thought.

BLURBS #
This extraordinary work is a veritable Rosetta stone, unlocking the past, present, and future.
-- Joan Halifax, author of The Fruitful Darkness
his own highly original ideas about the application of chaos theory to changes in history and consciousness, making for a rich and provacative blend.
-- Riane Eisler, author of The Chalice and the Blade
Ralph Abraham is the most readable and delightful of mathematical pioneers. He is in the great tradition of Poincare and Whitehead, a true mathematical humanist. Chaos, Gaia, Eros is destined to be a voice shaping the new millennium.
-- Terence McKenna, author of True Hallucinations, The Invisible Landscape, Archaic Revival, and Food of the Gods

----

Editorial Reviews
From Booklist
How odd that a modern mathematician would style himself as an advocate of Paleolithic religion! Yet in these pages, the reader finds Abraham--a pioneer in the development of chaos theory--espousing religious and cultural perspectives long buried in oblivion. Although repressed for 6,000 years, the Orphic tradition of ancient goddess worship may live again for those able to pierce the patriarchal deceits of order and control. The daring will enter into the blessed mysteries of pagan antiquity. Unabashedly utopian, the author interprets current intellectual ferment surrounding chaos theory, the Gaia hypothesis, and aerodynamics as an auspicious sign. If humankind can recognize this world-historical moment, the true Trinity--Chaos, Gaia, and Eros--will once again cover the earth with peace and harmony. The bibliography lists dozens of books in mythology, archaeology, and hermeneutics, but no source provides nearly as much as the author's own potent imagination. Bryce Christensen


Amazon link w/reviews-
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062500139/ref=ase_telesterionbooks/103-9285970-0729439

[burythehatchet]

17. its on the list

thanks

[Al-CIAda]

18. You will not regret it...it will be almost impossible to put down.

:thumbsup:

[Az]

19. This is a case where our prejudice about life confuses issues

Life is not magical. It is matter undergoing a process. Initially this process was dependent on the conditions on earth. But over time it became influencial on the conditions. The changes the process created on earth became intergral to new forms. Eventually systems take hold that define the environment.

The balance of life on earth is now required for the continuation of all life. It has become a process as much as any individual organism.

Humans and their minds have the ability to take responsibility for their path. This means that we change the nature of the balance. If we do not consider the effects of our choices then we may well poison the system that we are still dependent on.

[burythehatchet]

20. thanks Az

incredibly well stated.


:thumbsup: