i need some really good flyers to hand out at a church

[toymachines]

something with good taste, not too rude or harsh, something that informs, and makes people despise the bush regime, its actions and ideology. maybe about bush's love of the death penalty, or some war statistics and facts. i am also looking for some good flyers concerning jan 20th especially the "dont spend a red cent" thing. also, i plan on going to a catholic church , so is there anything that the pope or the vatican has officially said that i could use against the bushikevs? i have been looking around, but havent found quite what i am looking for. thought maybe you guys would have just the thing. thanks a lot.

[GetTheRightVote]

1. I believe back in may 2004 there was a report by Madsen concerning

the Pope's view of * and I believe it stated something about him being the Anti-Christ or such like, look it up, it appears in an internal reporting paper for the church.

:kick:

[Longhorn79]

6. Pope: Bush is the antichrist

No he didn't say that. I know the "story" you are referring to, but the Pope never implied Bush was the antichrist. Normally I wouldn't mind but I tend to respect what the pope says even more than my favorite partisan at the moment.

[havocmom]

2. Politicking in the wrong place not good

Chruch is church. Leave politics out of it. We expect the same from the wingers.

Church & state don't mix. Campaigning in church is not a good thing and could create problems. Do not go there.

[toymachines]

5. well me and my friend have close ties to this church

we are very interested in informing the public or what is really going on, at any cost. we expect confrontation, and will keep it low key. we have even talked to the pastor about this. at any rate, we just want text flyers which will get information to those who wish to read it. i understand that politics should usually be left out of the church, but the church has not been staying out of politics; and these are drastic times.

[havocmom]

9. If a chruch is politicing, contact the IRS about it and let them decide

on the tax expemt status.

Do 2 wrongs make a right? You will be engaging in something most of us here fight to prevent.

Yes these are drastic times. Make an issue of churches which violate laws governing what they can and can't do in pushing politics. But to use the chruch to advance your own agenda? Bad form AND it will be used against not only you, but other progressives by the wingers. So if you are gonna be giving fuel to the wingers, one might wonder just why.

Leave it outta church. If you want to contact members of your congregation on your own, fine. Taking it into the church will only make it worse for progressives. Why would you wanns do that?

[melnjones]

14. I've gotta agree on that one...not a wise idea imo. nt

[ProgressiveConn]

15. Church is the PERFECT Place.

I don't see the problem with talking politics in church. Unless you attend a church that doesn't have a political ideology. And even the UU has a political ideology. The point of organized religion is to make the world a better place by working together as much as it is to share their communal faith.

[havocmom]

16. work with those who share your faith and values

but better to keep it out of church
Are you aware there is a movement from the far right to allow churches to become politically active without losing their tax exempt status? Not a good idea to jump on that bandwagon OR give ammunition to the wingers on the issue.

[ProgressiveConn]

20. It is better to keep it out of Church.

I agree 100%. They have made that impossible. We can not allow our churches to become breeding grounds for the neo-con movement. What would Jesus do? Would he speak out after Mass to save lives?

[havocmom]

25. How have they made it impossible to keep it outta church?

Do they keep your mouth taped when you are anywhere else? Did they confiscate your keyboards and phones? Just how have they made it impossible for you to do your political activities outside of church?

Just because they are mixing church and political arm twisting doesn't make it wise for us to do likewise. If they are engaging in blatant political campaigning, look into what is and isn't allowed in regards to their tax exempt status. If they cross the line, talk to the pastor and ask that it stop. If it continues, turn them in for it.

Doing the same thing ourselves is just not good. It is not in keeping with the intention to keep churches out of politics nor is it in keeping with the tradition of protecting churches FROM politics.

I repeat, do you realize there is a movement to drop the restrictions on churches regarding political activity? Do you seek to further that movement? What you are seeking to do just gives ammunition to our opposition and I wonder just what would motivate you to go ahead and do that once it is explained to you.

Work withing the framework of your beliefs and work with congregation members who share them, but work outside of church. Going there armed with flyers and disrupting services with your own preaching of politics is NOT how to win friends for progressives.

[toymachines]

3. ya i have heard plenty about the vatican and bush

lately that a cardinal from the vatican which talked to bush before the war called him a liar for not living up to what he said he would do. along with the war being unjust and whatnot. but i cant find solid quotes or anything. just dont want to use facts that could be argued as false.

[Longhorn79]

4. I doubt church is the right place

I respect your ambition to change people's minds' but I wouldn't want to be solicited with a political agenda as I was leaving church. I would suggest instead to distribute your material at a church meeting that isn't as formal.

[AutumnMist]

7. In My Opinion

I am not feeling very good tonight, so my apologies if I seem a little short. It's not my intention. I would ask yourself why a church? Not that I have an issue per say with that....but not all christians voted for or believe in the Bush administration. To consider anyone going to a service to be a "Bushikev" would almost stifle your message, not promote it, in my very humble opinion. I guess my point is:

A. Research the Church/sect (my mother is a Catholic and hates Bush with a hot passion)
B. Consider who you would like to reach the most
C. Keep an open mind about who you are approaching and why
D. When you do make your point(s), make sure that you make it one that you can back up and give well thought out responses.

I'm sorry if I have been of little help. But these were just my fleeting thoughts before I go to bed. Good luck! :)

[toymachines]

8. maybe then the point is to get people's attention

i understand that many churchgoing people, catholics especially, are not pro-bush. i dont really care. i do want to change the minds of those who think bush is somehow doing a good job. if they cant be changed, so be it. more importantly, i want to get people who maybe have no interest now, but would if they were told more about it. if a flyer was given to them, pointing out some facts, sending a clear message, maybe even motivate them to do something about it. i want people to have information that isnt normally given to them, especially at church. i believe after being taught so many things about being christ like, and leaving mass with the priest saying live on with the mass in your hearts, people should be open to a way in which they can live with the ideals of jesus in mind. i simple change in mindset, is all it takes for a pro bushie to turn against the people's oppressor.

[havocmom]

10. You'll get attention alright! Bad press for liberals

Just why would you wanna do that?

Take your passion and use it OUTSIDE OF CHURCH. Write LTTE. Work with local progressives in the public arena.

I know of some great resources for the flyers you want but I'll be damned if I will give them to someone hell bent on crossing the line we try to hold the wingers accountable to.

[AutumnMist]

13. Of Course The Point

is to get others thinking in a way that maybe they haven't approached before. More power to you. I do not have one issue with you bringing the message that you have, it was just in the form of delivery. Have a good night.

Proverbs 9:
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man and he will increase in learning.

[jdj]

17. give a liberal pamphlet to a fundie, and he'll litter.

[PoiBoy]

11. Here's a link to the Madsen article...

it's pretty interesting, but not definitive, IMO....

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/6-16-03/discussion.cgi.8.html

<snip>
Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and
his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout
Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in
the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope
claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and
in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent
the person prophesized in Revelations.
<end>

[jdj]

12. the "signal early and often" quote from Bush Sr. might wake them

up, but I don't remember where I saw it. It was either him or one of his advisors talking about how to dupe religous people into thinking the Bushes are actually religious.

[pamela]

18. Sojourners has some good stuff.

Here's one that I like.

http://www.sojo.net/action/alerts/confessing_christ.pdf

[Is It Fascism Yet]

19. Who would Jesus bomb? n/t

[ProgressiveConn]

21. I made up a flyer....

However it appears I dont have enough posts to PM or email you about it so I will have to post here. It is nothing special just a description of Bush's meeting with Cardinal Laghi and Cheney's meeting with the Pope. With a couple pictures and the obligitory Matthew 5 : 9 quote. Gave me something to do while waiting for an important phonecall at 3am. =)

If you PM me with your email address I can send it to you.

[eagler]

22. You might consider doing a little research on Rev. Moon

On march 23rd 04,he was crowned the Messiah at the Dirksen Federal bldg. in DC. His ties to the Bushes is very bizarre and overwhelming.If anyone is called an anti-christ it is most certainly him. If Christians knew the entire truth they would have to distance themselves from Bush.

[toymachines]

23. i will have to look into that guy, sounds niteresting

my email is [e-mail]
i would love to see the flyer man.
thanks for all the replies guys.
now you have me seriously debating the church thing.
will probably tone it down to some sort of booth or something...i dont know, too late to think. nite

[Peter Frank]

24. Who's paying the price of war???

Who's blood is over-represented on the front lines? -- the blood of the unemployed.

It can be argued that for every job that goes overseas -- an American joins the military to make ends meet.

This administration talks in great patriotic sounding bites; but its actions speak in vastly different volumes.

You know the tree by its fruits.