Sorry for being so naive... WHAT WAS NOV 2. 2000 like?

[nickshepDEM]

Im 20 years old and have only be able to vote since the 2002 election. In high school I followed polotics, but nothing like I do now. Anyways, ever since Nov 2. 2004 I have been sorta depressed about the election results. Whenever I see a picture of John Kerry I think what a great man, veteran, and public servant he is and what a great President he would have been. I just cant imagine what it was like on Nov 2. 2000 and the days that followed. Having the election in the palm of your hand just to have it stolen away.

So, basically my question is, WHAT WAS NOV 2. 2000 and the days the followed like? (or if you like what was it like compared to nov 2. 2004?)

[nickshepDEM]

1. kick

[radwriter0555]

2. Nov 2, 2000 was to the Constitution, was what 911 was to the WTC...

both perpetrated by the PNAC and bush regime.

[nickshepDEM]

4. Yeah. I just cant imagine what if felt like though.

If im still somewhat depressed over this election. I cant imagine how people were feeling after Nov 2. 2000.

[Deja Q]

7. So the 5 "Supreme" Court justices who selected * are part of PNAC?!

I won't believe that rubbish. Especially when they voted against against a couple of things * wanted, over the years...

One such incident is this: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=248

If the "supreme" court had been a part of PNAC, they would have allowed * to do what he wanted. But they didn't. And for a significant issue too.

[radwriter0555]

11. Perhaps you should investigate the relationships the bush regime and the

PNAC has with Scalia, Rehnquist... hunting parties and babs olsen, not withstanding.

BTW, can you name any plaintiffs in the guantanamo bay proceedings who have finally stood trial, thanks to the US SC ruling?

Flagrantly crapping all over the constitution is indeed a hobby of the bush regime; luckily there are a couple of sane minds on the US SC, who's opinions are still heard. Thank goodness for the likes of Judges O'Conner, Sauter and Ginsberg that they're still with us to impart a modicum of decency to any proceedings that are heard. They are in fact the ones who dissented on the illegally heard Florida Election case; their dissents are earth shattering and heart breaking, if you haven't take the time to read them.

Yes, I firmly believe that the likes of rehnquist& scalia are firmly entrenched within the PNAC.

Elliott Abrams, Richard L. Armitage, William J. Bennett, Jeffrey Bergner, John Bolton, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Robert Kagan, Zalmay Khalilzad, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Peter W. Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Robert B. Zoellick are all PNAC members. They're all tied directly to the bush regime and all have various ties to the uber conservative members of the US SC.

[rzemanfl]

3. It was just like when you first know you are going to fall...

and we are still wondering when the fall will end.

[Deja Q]

5. Welcome to DU. 4 years ago. Oh, I will never forget. And at this point,

never forgive.

I loved Nader's talking points, but his personality was tantamount to a robot on valium. (note: Thanks to DU, I learned how two-faced that creep Nader truly is. But the fact remains, Nader's involvement in selection 2000 is nothing by comparison to the elements of Florida and the very partisan Supreme Court, don't blindly believe anyone who wants to dump it all on Nader's putrid back.) Now Nader used to be a good man; in the early 1970s he was very pro-consumer. A great man. But age and/or money convinced him to $leaze it up.

Gore's personality was okay and, let's face it, he was on Futurama. Twice. How could I not like him, even if he was a little more Clintonesque than the Green party guy who was on the party I preferred? Gore seemed a lot more distinguished than Clinton too, so you know he was light years ahead of our neanderthal* who got selected by a supreme court that blatently refused to take the Popular Vote into consideration. (oh, do note how the repukes flaunt the popular vote in 2004 and get incensed with anger...)

OTOH, Gore's campaign was lacklustre - there is no doubting that. He could have been a bit more forceful and he could have done more to denounce Clinton's Lewinski entrapment/scandal, though hindsight is 20/20, it should have been a large enough hurdle to see. Gore blewinski on Lewinski, that much is certain. (not to condone Clinton's actions, but at least nobody died when he lied... but he still lied. A lesser of two evils is still evil, never forget that maxim.) Hell, to this day people still voted for *, claiming "moral values" - and then running off to see "Bad Santa" or "Meet the Fockers". :eyes: Morals, my a$$. It's so two-faced, nevermind the ignorance aspect.

But in the end, it's all about image. * had more image than Gore or Nader combined. A very odd sort of image, but one nonetheless.

I was shocked that * won in 2000. Again, the popular vote didn't have any factor in the Supreme Court (the majority of it was helmed by Republicans. It is no coincidence that partisanship played a role. And that is disgusting, disgraceful, disingenuous, and despicable.)

While angered from election 2004, I was not surprised. * had the war behind him and too many people still blindly believed it to be a good one. (contrary to what people "think", there is never such as thing as a "black or white" issue.) And while there was enough evidence to launch an investigation. Nobody who had the power to bothered to. I won't name names, but one name is kinda obvious... which is very sad when you consider that elections are the cornerstone of American freedom and the freedoms people had fought and died for over the last 225+ years, and we had people in 2004 who simply let things drop in the end, without fighting. That's beyond embarrassing.

And I noticed MANY TIMES during the 2004 debates how Kerry could have mopped the floor with *, when * started talking of flip flops and other things. But Kerry didn't, and I even wondered why at the time. There were SO MANY THINGS that Kerry could have used to annihilate Bush* in the debates, yet didn't. It's so true that I just had to say it twice. Kerry's big "take it back" campaign ended with a very quick "I concede" message the day after, thus destroying any faith I ever had in him. (he's a great man turned louse. Much like how Nader had.)

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Gore's campaign was lackluster but for the exact opposite reason you state

Clinton left office with a more popularity than he entered with. Democrats gained seats in congress in the 1998 elections because people were fed up with the GOP exploiting Lewinskygate and not letting the President run the country. Right wing nutjobs who hated Clinton to begin with cared about Lewinksy, the country didn't. Gore ran way from an administration that created the best peacetime economy in years. His VP choice, Lieberman, was god aweful and reflective of his decission to run away from Clinton.

[SmokingJacket]

6. Well... you remember that the election went on for about another

month. Bush was declared the winner in December. A lot of people got extremely tired of the whole thing and were just relieved it was over.

I remember feeling irritated and angry about the decision, and knew it was a bad one, and knew that he'd be a bad president. But I have to say, it was NOTHING compared to the feeling I have now.

In fact, I felt faintly amused by the whole thing. My attitude was, stupid USA, now you'll get your dumbbell president, hahaha! Remember, he had no record.

Honestly, I (and many others) had no idea it would be this bad.

9-11, wars in two countries, anthrax, a horrible economy, Abu Ghraib... the list goes on. That a president can be reelected (legitimately or not) after ALL THAT makes me absolutely, completely sickened and depressed.

It is so much worse this time.

[Harry S Truman]

8. 2000...

What I remember most about 2000 was the media's bizarre "Let's just move on" attitude. We had an electoral and governmental crisis like nothing we had seen since the 1876 election and these morons on TV were virtually minimalizing everything. It was like none of the airheads in broadcast "journalism" had any clue as to the gravity of what was occurring right in front of us all.

Also, there was way too much "what network called Florida for whom when" instead of focus on the fact that predictions were made based on vote models and exit polls that were all made moot by the butterfly ballot snafu and other vote problems.

Basically, it was a whole mess that our media was far to immature and compromised to cover properly. We're still paying the price.

[ArkDem]

9. It was a polotical disaster.

[Solly Mack]

10. Ever been stabbed? That sick feeling you get when metal rips flesh?

Well, that's what it was like.

You're excited and happy cause you know Gore will win. Then the nightmare begins and the knife goes in


The days that followed were like a dream (nightmare) sequence....you're bleeding and still feeling sick but with nothing to staunch the flow of blood or to stop the queasy feeling in the pit of your tummy.

[adadem]

13. Exactly

Coupled with the stark facts that everything you were taught, everything you believed about America was a lie.

[annabanana]

12. try to catch Randi Rhodes on the topic..

She was at ground zero in florida when the PNAC thugs shut down the counting and she's still pissed (rightfully so). There is a picture floating around here somewhere with the Rove boys yelling and pounding on the door.(If anyone can find it, post it).
I remember sitting and watching and saying OMG this is really going to get hijacked.. and I knew that they'd get away with it because of the "ho-hum just another day reading at the camera" attitude of the press.

[4_TN_TITANS]

14. 2000 was sickening....

It was the reason I'm involved in politics right now. I didn't lift a finger to campaign for Gore, mistakenly believing that any rational person would vote for more of the peace and prosperity of Clinton. Then, to watch Gore win the popular vote, but W be appointed president, totally blew my respect for American democracy. Our government is corrupt to the point that the good ole' USA is on a downhill slide.

[leesa]

15. Same thing. You went to bed sure one person had won and the next

morning this idiot had taken the real winners place. The vote switching/padding occurrs at night.

[patcox2]

16. December 12 or 13 was the real killer, thats when the Supreme Court

Finally and absolutely discredited itself by installing Bush in a judicial coup.

[spooked]

17. Just to clarify...the election was held November 7, 2000

it was literally a rollarcoaster/nailbiter

[peekaloo]

18. November 2, 2000 I still held out hope.......November 7 (election day)

I stayed up all night watching television with a churning stomach. Haven't felt much joy since that night about our country.

[SharonRB]

19. I was upset, but

nowhere near as depressed as I am this time. I knew * was a dumbass, but he had no presidential record at that point, so I didn't know just how bad he'd be. Also, although I strongly supported Gore and thought he'd make a good president, I think I actually liked Kerry more and thought he'd make a great president. I'm still very depressed as well, if it's any comfort.

[hfojvt]

25. I liked Gore better

and my take on Kerry's presidency is different. This election I also followed the horrible news about Daschle et. al. I was hoping that Democrats would also win in Congress in 2002 and 2004. If Kerry had won with this Congress we would still have been screwed. Not as totally, but still screwed nonetheless. At least in 2000, we were still even in the Senate. Mondale and Carnahan and Cleland getting beat really hurt in 2002 as well.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

20. I'd love to tell you how I experienced it....I couldn't sleep for days

I am a 52 year old Grandmother, and have voted in every election I was eligible to vote in, which, by this time, is a great many. I have always waited up to hear the result. I waited up for days, glued to the tube, unbelieving in the media whores audacity to try to call it before the votes were tallied, when it was at times said to be as close as 52 votes. I applauded President Gore for his courage in not caving in, not capitulating, not conceding. I wrote to him, and urged him not to give up, to make sure every vote was counted, especially in Florida, and assured him that I believed he was doing the right thing. Of course, nobody read my email, and President Gore didn't need me to tell him any of that, he already knew it. The media whores tried to bad mouth him, saying he was a "poor sport". That so sucked. It was a presidential election. Presidential elections are important things; not sports. The media whores intermittently fed us the usuall circus/circus distraction stories, and alternately told us it didn't matter so much about making sure all the votes were counted, what mattered was announcing a winner as soon as possible, because "America couldn't wait!" We stuck close to JohnKerry.Com, MoveOn.org, CNN, MSNBC and FAUX, mesmerized, uncaring about any other aspect of our lives, and we said out loud to each other and the media whores on TV, "Yeah, we can wait, count the votes, we can wait." But they said we couldn't wait, and the Faux news room was being whore jockeyed by a Bush cousin, so, Faux was the worst of the whores. They first announced Shrub as winner, long before the votes were tallied. You have to wonder, now that we know Shrub has actually paid tax payer money to some media whores in exchange for propaganda, how they arranged for CNN and MSNBC to lie almost as much. For they all chanted the "America can't wait for a conclusion" mantra, and it was a really dumb, lame mantra, because, what every American always wants most is a fair and legitimate election. What are we supposed to be, 2 year olds with a 3 day attention span or something? Americans supposedly are not capable of delayed gratification? Since when? We had NEVER before heard it suggested that it was more important to decide the results of an election expediently than accurately. And all the people, all still watching stunned as the election was stolen, said to each other in lines at the post office and the grocery store..."Isn't that why we have the inauguration in January? So that we have time for counts and recounts?" Then the Bush owned biotch Kathleen Harris, Secretary of the State of Florida, and also a campaign official high in the Bush campaign, demanded that the counties stop counting votes, and tried to certify Florida for Shrub...and the media whores said it again, because, you know, it takes 2100 repetitions on Faux News to make a truth, so, they said it again, "America can't wait!" And we all turned our sleepless eyes and watched as Gore lawyers challenged Harris' right to stop the counties from completing their counting, and a State Superior Court ruled the bitch could not stop the vote counting, so she gave the counties a 3 day limit in which to finish their counting. This, mind you, when the tally was at times withing 52 votes. During the 3 days while they feverishly tried to accomplish a hand count, republican thugs banged on their doors, and unrestrained by the police, threatened the counters bodily harm. At least one county elections official reported that they were not done counting but that they were going to quit, and the threat of bodily harm by the large crowds of ruffians who were allowed to gather at their door was the major factor in their decision to stop counting. They said that. They said so, they even said it on CNN, that intimidation and fear of bodily harm was what was making them quit. It was about here that I got physically ill, and realized our democracy was broken. Unfortunately, I am still physically ill from it, and it actually gives me heart pain. Than Bush&Co ran crying to the Impeachable Supremes. Bushco's case actually seemed to be built on the "America can't wait for recounts and must have instant gratification right now so stop the counting" theory. Two of the Supremes should have recused themselves. InJustice Scalia heard arguments in favor of Bush's case, those arguments being delivered by an attorney who is his own son-in-law. The father of his grandchildren, his daughter's husband, a member of his immediate family, a guy he spends Christmas with. Of course, in the end, Scalia voted in favor of his son-in-law's client, in favor of expediency over accurate democracy. The second InJustice who should have recused herself is Sandra Day O'Connor, who was at a party election night telling people that shrub "Just has to win! I want to retire and I can't unless Bush wins!" She was so widely quoted as having said this that I think she feared to retire later, knowing this quote would come back to haunt her if she tried it. Of course, Injustice Sandra voted for expediency also and the Impeachable Supremes ruled that the counting and recounting of votes must stop. And then we held our breath, waiting for our Senate to rush to rescue us, for surely the Congress and the Senate would challenge the Florida electors according to the protocol set forth in our Constitution. Surely the House and Senate would not allow our election to be tossed away without a proper counting. To our great dismay, nothing happened. The media whores did not even show us the efforts of members of Congress to challenge the electors. They did not show us the cowardice of 100 senators failing to join Congress to defend American democracy, they did not show us the near revolt of the populace in the streets, they only showed us circus/circus stories, mind boggling filler about whose breast accidental got out, as they do now. Our legally elected president went into exile in Tennessee, and the Unpresident took possession of the White House, announcing to his cabinet, according to Paul ONeil, on day one, that we would find a reason for war with Iraq. And the people then knew their democracy was broken, and wondered at how easy it was, after all, to conquer America.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. I don't think anybody expected it to be so aweful

We had lost, but the fact is that we had a fucking moron Republican in the white house who hadn't even won the popular vote. I think we all figured that his presidency would just be a complete failure, the democrats would take congress back in 2002, and either Gore would win in a re-match in 2004 or Kerry (a favorite for the nomination in 2004 even as early as 2001) would destroy *. Our hopes were only confirmed when Jeffords switch parties throwing us in control of the senate, basically making Lott and Bush shit their pants. Then 9/11 happened, and that changed everything.

[WI_DEM]

23. I was convinced Gore was going to win on November 2, 2000

and on November 7th given the early returns I felt confident--then they reversed themselves on Florida on orders from Rove and FOX news.

[hfojvt]

24. "sun goes up, sun goes down

this old world keeps spinning around. Not much has changed, since you've been gone. I miss you honey but life goes on."
To me, I kept going to work, and doing most of the same things I always did. I kept writing LTE.
I wrote in October of 2000 that "quite frankly a Bush presidency scares me" but I had no idea what they would do and that they would seemingly get away with it in the 2002 and 2004 elections.
At the time, I was somewhat upbeat because I felt that I had helped to deliver my county, my district and my state for Gore (I was in northern Iowa at the time). There was no way I could conceive of the master-stroke of 9/11, nor the way so much of my fellow Americans would swallow JR's cowboy-hero act.

[otohara]

26. Nightmare of Insurmountable Proportions

and it's still happening...

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Gore fought back!