Ask the Police:

[SouthernDem2004]

Greetings,

I am a tad new around here and for those that do not know I am a Police Officer by trade. I have found during my time posting on numerous websites that people often have questions and misconceptions about law enforcement. So, If you have any questions fire away....


FYI: I ignore posts containing insults, personal attacks and profanity.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

1. what do you think about the war on some drugs?

does the prohibition of marijuana help or hurt society in your opinion?

[SouthernDem2004]

6. My personal opinion...

Well it clearly helps. Smoking anything is not good for your health. I do not buy the whole medicinal garbage. It is a poor pain killer and the appetite benefit has been synthesized in Marinol. People pushing medical marijuna are just looking to get their foot in the door and legalize it outright.

That being said... I personally think it should be legalized. People should be able to make the choice themselves. I would much rather marijuana be legal then alcohol.

[spanone]

15. When you go through chemo you might change your mind.

Your dentist can use cocaine on your mouth, but you can't smoke a joint. It is reefer madness, nothing else. P.S. Marinol doesn't work.

[SouthernDem2004]

19. I have an open mind on the entire issue...

It has always been my understanding that Marinol did work. I thought studies backed that but I really do not know.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. It's Useless For MS

I've gotten a prescription for it. It does NOTHING for the pain in my legs, which is going on every day for 10 years! Marinol is completely ineffective, not just for me. The broad based medical studies found it to be ineffectual as well.

BTW: I have a friend who's a police captain. He's the public liaison officer for a dept. in a city of about 120,000.

The Professor

[onecitizen]

26. I have found nothing......

helps the pain in my legs. Like you Professor, I have had constant pain since 1997. If only marijuana would help, I'd try to get some. Are you saying that Marinol does not help but marijuana does?

Mr. Police Officer, seems people do not like you until they need you. :-)

[ProfessorGAC]

28. I Will Not Discuss The Options On The Internet

However, marinol does NOT help the pain from MS. It has been shown to be wholly inefficacious. (So are, btw, most any painkiller or pain moderator.)

The extacts and the mode of introduction to the body matter for ANY medicine ro treatment. That's why people don't DRINK chemo, or take a pill for that. The route of introduction has an impact on the overall concentration of active ingredients.

You can infer from that what you will.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

30. I thought Marinol was just for hunger and not pain.

[rexcat]

343. Marijuana is good for chemotherapy induce nausea and vomiting...

Marionl is not as affective. There are better drugs on the market for nausea but they are extremely expensive. Marinol like its cousin marijuana also increases appetite which is helpful with chemotherapy patients because they tend to have a decreased appetite which can cause nutritional deficiencies.

[SouthernDem2004]

31. I certainly do not know your situation...

but I have been put on some serious pain medication in the past that did wonders. Oxycotin is some interesting stuff.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Double Reply to SoDem2004

Marinol reduces the spasming associated with chemo, since those are poisons and various bodily mechanisms are adversely affected by them. It also minimizes nausea, which makes people less likely to WANT to eat.

Pain killers tend not to work (if at all) for MS because the mechanism of most of them blocks the synaptic interface between the source of the pain and the cerebellum and cervical spinal cord. In MS, the pain sensors are firing randomly around the source of myelin breakdown. So, there is no synaptic interface to block. The pain's already in the brain. (Think it phantom pain if that's makes it easier to imagine.) As a result, reflex actions trigger many tangential nervous functions in those same extremeties, leading to spasms, twitches, biomechanical delays and, usually, extreme burning sensations. (Sort of like standing in a campfire, but for 2 weeks straight!)

So, painkillers are highly ineffective. Marinol can make someone feel a little less focused on the intensity, but it did absolutely NOTHING for me. I took the whole bottle over the prescribed time ( i think it was 4 weeks worth). I took it at the exactly prescribed dosage. Nada!

I know that the ant-medmar folks say there is only anecdotal evidence that it helps. (Of course, since it's impossible to do a true double blind study, it's self-fulfilling to term it anecdotal.) But, it seems silly that a naturally occurring plant wouldn't be made readily available to people with extreme medical conditions, just IN CASE it helped. There is no real logic to denying those people the possibility of less discomfort.

Even worse, it's still CRIMINAL behavior. So, desperately seeking relief from an intractable medical disorder makes one a criminal. Not much logic inherent there, either. Must be compassionate conservatism in action.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

41. I would not blame conservatism...

I think the main problem is ignorance. I was unaware of the issues you raise. These cripply illnesses are not party specific and a more informed public might change its opinion.

Once again I think part of the problem is the messenger killing the message. A bunch of "stoner" types protesting for legalizing medical marijuana is not going to change minds. Everyone knows they are pushing for fully legalization and do not care about the medical aspect. If the stoners would sit down and shut up and let the people suffering from illness lead the cause then more people might listen.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. That argument is rather absurd, if examined closely.

When one considers that alcohol is far more dangerous, and has far more harmful effects on the user and on society. Any societal ills associated with marijuana exist because marijuana is illegal. The illegality makes it profitable; therefore it attracts the attention of criminals, and encourages development of a black market.

There ARE drugs which ought to be regulated, but marijuana is NOT one of them.

[SouthernDem2004]

58. Please...

reread my posts. I am not against legalizing marijuana. I never said alcohol was less dangerous. If I had to choose between the two I would ban alcohol and legalize marijuana.

Like, I said... Please reread my posts. Sorry if they are not clear. I worked last night and have not slept yet.

[Spider Jerusalem]

60. 's okay...

long night myself...chronic insomnia...so I'm not quite up to par either...sorry I missed that.

[Boosterman]

289. Wasnt it Nancy reagan

who said that marijuana does kill people. All those poor DEA agents, and police officers who get killed by drug dealers? Hello? MacFly? If it was legal....

[ProfessorGAC]

46. We Can Agree To Disagree On That Point

There is really no point in criminalizing it at all. Every scientifically valid study on drug use shows that the rate of usage has gone up slightly, but by the same amount, in EVERY decade since congress criminalized naturally occurring substances. EVERY DECADE!

The business growth, the numbers of people, the corrupted officers, DEA folks, border patrol, all go up. And, the war on drugs has not any substantial impact on the growth of the business. The bang of the buck in a drug war has been abysmally poor. No business in their right mind would accept the sliver thin return on investment.

Congress needed to push through a Constituional ammendment to ban alcohol. Those substances are PURELY manufactured goods. By fiat, Congress decided (in many cases for racist reasons) to declare natrually occurring substances (PLANTS!) to be illegal. No ammendment. No plebiscite. Just decided for us. There is a fundementally objectionable aspect to the drug prohibition. It's not supposed to be the way america works. For that reason alone, i will remain wholeheartedly against it, and wholeheartedly for full decriminalization.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

61. Like I said previously...

I am not against legalizing marijuana.

I disagree with your claim drug use has gone up. It has actually been going down.

I disagree with your racist reasoning also.

Congress no longer uses Ammendments and probably will not for anything in the future. Ammendments were used initially to make Federal laws because they were not sure of a better way. Congress has now decided just to pass laws and leave the Constitution alone.

[Spider Jerusalem]

67. Leave the constitution alone by passing laws that gut it.

Way to go.

No-knock searches, asset forfeiture, et cetera...we have laws allowing these that basically make the Fourth Amendment meaningless, and it's thanks to the pointless and stupid War on Some Drugs.

And to say that racism wasn't a motivating factor in the passage of drug laws is to ignore historical fact. Apparently you've not heard of the yellow-journalism hysteria of William Randolph Hearst and others...stories about evil "Chinamen" using opium to lure young American girls into "white slavery"; about "reefer-crazed" and "cocaine-maddened" "buck Negroes" raping young white women and committing terrible crimes under the influence of these drugs...make no mistake, racism played a VERY large part in formulation of this country's drug laws.

[SouthernDem2004]

71. No-knock etc...

No-knock warrants require a warrant and probably cause. Asset forfeiture requires probable cause and a hearing. Neither violate the spirit of the 4th.

You racisim examples are just propaganda used at the time. They were not the basis of the outlawing.

[Spider Jerusalem]

75. As an aside...

I always get vaguely irritated whenever I hear someone say something about the "spirit of the law". It says what it says, and means what it means; invocation of some nonexistent "spirit" is usually justification for opening a loophole, generally prior to driving a battering ram through it.

And without an orchestrated propaganda campaign, those laws may not have passed. After all, it took the propaganda for something that had NOT been a problem to become considered a problem and outlawed; if collection of tax revenues were the basis of the law, then why not regulate sales and require excise stamps, as with alcohol and tobacco?

[ProfessorGAC]

85. You're Completely Wrong!

Completely. FBI and DEA statistics indicate the growth curve of drug use has been EXACTLY THE SAME in each decade. You can wish it were going down all you want. It's just not so. The law enforcement community says it is going up! So does the Treasury department who tracks the probable cash flow from the drug trade to better understand its economic import. They show money volume rising by 2.77% greater than the rate of inflation in everyone of the last 40 years. Either there are 100 stoners who are blasted beyond belief or people are spending more money on more drugs.

The reason for banning marijuana, opium and cocaine are well-documented in the Congressional Record. Go look it up sometime. The speeches by the congress critters who passed those laws didn't even hide their racist motivations. Before you tell someone they're wrong, you need to do some research and get your facts straight first. The "Mexican Problem" was addressed by outlawing MJ. The "black urban unrest" was addrssed by outlawing cocaine. And there were too many white people spending dough at Chinese opium dens and making Chinese businessmen too rich. So, we banned that.

Lastly, my point is that we SHOULDN'T just pass laws that tell everyone what's legal and what's not. They can't ban alcohol or gambling all over the country because of the states' rights clause. They NEEDED to ammend the Constitution to make it happen. They NEEDED to ammend even to reverse it, even though EVERYONE admitted by then it was a tragic mistake. YOu dismiss that as suggesting better not to ammend. Better not to pass laws that should require an ammendment, i would think.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

89. We could throw...

Stats at each other left and right...

I still disagree with your racisim claim. Cocaine became controlled by Congress in 1914 due to the rise in fatalities. Opium was banned in 1905 due to the alarming rate of addiction.

I never said anything about it being better not to ammend. It is merely what happened. Please reread my previous post.

[ProfessorGAC]

94. I See. Facts Don't Matter If They Get In The Way

The FBI, the DEA, and Treasury all show increases and you don't want to hear it.

I tell you that the congress people made these statements in bold face type in the Congressional record and you don't want to hear that.

You did say that they don't ammend they just pass laws. That was the premise of my complaint in the first place and you simply dismissed that. Then you said you never said it.

This conversation has reached the fruitless stage.

Have a good rest to your Tuesday.

I'm out.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

102. You are correct.

I never approved of passing laws instead of Amendments.


You are correct, this is fruitless.


Best of Luck,

SouthernDem

[Sterling]

215. But he is a cop, he does not need facts.

I am sure he is not used to having to explain himself to civilians anyway. Cops are right because they say so. Just look at how he started this thread. He came here to school us while clearly it is he who needs an education.

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

222. I do not respond to personal attacks or profanity...

Best of luck to you.

[Name removed]

233. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IdaBriggs]

52. Please avoid marijuana if you have MS.

My sister used it rather extensively, while ignoring the studies that showed up to a 40% decrease in white blood cell counts due to its use.

She died of pneumonia.

I have no proof that her regular use of marijuana contributed to her death, but I have my suspicions as to it being a factor. :(

[ProfessorGAC]

59. I Don't Base Many Decisions On Individual Datapoints

And my white cell count is perfectly normal, thank you. But, i appreciate your concern.

BTW: I never said i used marijauna. You might want to go back and reread my original post. I said marinol was USELESS. That's it.
The Professor

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Relax :)

It is not illegal to use marijuana. Its illegal to possess marijuana.

[ProfessorGAC]

66. Apropos Of Nothing

The Professor

[egoprofit]

345. don't you have to posess it to use it?

if ur smoking a joint then ur posessing the joint. (or pipe etc)

[SouthernDem2004]

352. I never said that.

[IdaBriggs]

74. My post was an "in general" information thing.

As for the individual data point, the studies about marijuana and white blood cell counts are out there, and they seem pretty conclusive to me. I'm glad your white blood cell count is normal. :)

My sister had relapsing / remitting MS. She was not that far advanced when she died. She thought she had a cold, and was putting off going to the doctor until Monday. She died in the car on the way to the hospital on Sunday. :(

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Sorry To Hear That

I don't however, think they're any correlated studies to MS sufferers. Also, i am highly suspicious of such studies. There is too much vested interest in finding things wrong with the "drugs" the gov't and big pharma can't control.

Really truly, sorry about your sister.
The Professor

[Willy Lee]

55. Bad for chemo too (marinol)

When my partner was getting chemo (3 day infusions, every 3 weeks for 1 year) he could not eat ANYTHING for those 3 days. Threw up every 30 minutes around the clock.

I was getting very freaked out, well, you can imagine when your 30 year old husband is going through this, it is devastating. One night he smoked a bit of a joint out of the hospital window that a friend had given him. He slept for 3 hours without throwing up, awoke and asked for a cheeseburger and fries. Ate it all up and slept the rest of the night. Wow.

His doc had given him Marinol but he couldn't keep anything down.

Just wanted to share my story, and glad you have an open mind.

[DS1]

291. Cheeseburger and fries?

Sounds about right ;-) :smoke:

[Comicstripper]

339. Your post made me hungry

Sounds like a hellish process.
Well, thank God no other seriously ill patients will ever have to undergo the Horrors Of Drug Use.
Honestly, many of these laws are just ridiculous.
And for the record, I have never tried any drugs (with the obvious exception of over-the-counter and perscription medication). Nor do I ever plan to. But I still think the laws are pointless.

[sffreeways]

235. I have MS

I don't have a script for Marinol but smoking it helps when the pain is mild but not if it's that deep agonizing ache.

[Mojorabbit]

241. I agree

It doesn't work for the deep ache but it helps if you can catch it before it gets to the real bad stage. Which is where I am at tonight.

[Lostnote03]

246. God Bless Your Health, and keep your eye on the friend...lol

[SemperEadem]

361. INteresting

I've talked with people for whom MMJ works very well.

Each person's experience is just that. One can't speak for all.

[eridani]

314. Works on some things

But if you are barfing all the time from chemo, whatthehell good does it do to try to take oral meds? Smoke in the lungs works right away.

[rexcat]

342. I agree...

I work in clinical research and specifically in oncology and Marinol has some theraputic affect but it is not even close to smoking a marijuana joint. The police officer is not well informed.

[SouthernDem2004]

353. True:

I have never had Chemo and all I know about Marinol is what you see on the news.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

33. do you believe that many people have a financial stake

in keeping marijuana illegal? ie. the war on drugs results in funds and more prisonsers are always good for the prison industry.

[SouthernDem2004]

35. Nope

1) Meth, Cocaine and other hard drugs will never be legal. The war on drugs will continue regardless of the legality of marijuana.

2) The state of marijuana is determined by the public's current opinion on the issue not the prison systems. As long as the majority of the public opposes marijuana it will remain illegal.

3) The State has much more to gain finacially by legalizing and taxing.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

44. i am not talking about the "state" making money on prisons

i am talking about private prison owners.

do they not have an interest in gaining/maintaining prison population?

are there not prison lobby groups?
do you think they have the best interest of our society in mind or what is best for their pocketbook?

do you believe it is ethical to lock up a person who besides marijuana offenses is a law abiding citizen?

do you find it hypocritical the way our society embraces alcohol a far more dangerous drug?

do you agree with the federal government stepping in to shut down medical marijuana markets in california after the people voted to make medical marijuana legal?

do you believe that politicians speak their mind about the issue of marijuana prohibition or do you think that they are worried about appearing "soft on crime"?

how would the state effectively tax something you can grow in your backyard?

do you believe we are addressing the real causes of substance abuse by locking up people?

[SouthernDem2004]

68. Hmmm.

Lot'o questions:

1) I do not believe the prison industry has the influence you think they do.

2) Do I believe in locking up for marijuana? The only people that do any real time are dealers, growers and people that transfer. Is it ethical to lock them up? Yes, they broke the law. We are a nation of laws. If you do not like the law work to change it. Like I said before, life is not fair.

3) The alcohol question, The answer would be no. Alcohol can be used without impairing the user. Anyway, I think it is a mistake to try and link the issues.

4) California: Federal Laws supersede State laws. Marijuana was never legal in CA.

5) Politicians: No they do not speak their mind. I think you are correct that they do not want to seem soft on crime.

6) Tax: Lol, most people are to lazy to grow it in their backyard. Once it is made legal it would just be cheaper and easier to buy it at a store.

7) Locking people up: Just sending people to treatment does not work. I see this every day. My city has a drug court that sends offenders to rehab, rarely works. Their are consequences in life. You break the laws you go to jail.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

137. well.......

1) my point is that the private sector has an investment in keeping prison populations high, do you disagree?

2) so no one goes to jail unless they are dealing, growing, trafficing? what is the criteria for deciding if someone is trafficing or not?

3) marijuana can be used with out impairing the user, do you think it is a mistake to link the two issues because alcohol does far more damage to our society than marijuana? how many alcohol related deaths/violence did you deal with this year? how many marijuana related deaths/violence did you deal with this year?

4) but the majority voted? what happened to states rights? are you saying for marijuana to be decriminalized that the federal laws will have to be overturned?

5) yay, we agree on something.

6) i would grow marijuana in my back yard in a second if it were legal. i believe you have misconceptions about "typical" marijuana users.

7) so, does locking someone up protect the population or does it teach the criminal a lesson?

how do you know the rehab does not work? what exposure do you have to the situations? what city is this? you seem to know more than the court system, why don't try to address the situation with them?

[SouthernDem2004]

198. Answers:

1) I do disagree in general. Sure the companies that run private prisons do not mind the business. Thing is that there are very few companies and they do not control the US.

2) I said Prison, not jail. They are 2 very different things. Trafficing is determined by quantity or packaging. An 8-ball is personal use, not trafficing. A kilo is not for personal use, trafficking. A dime bag of week, personal use. 50 pounds on weed hidden in a vehicele, not personal uses.
3) Marijuana can not be used without impairing the user. I think you missed my posts where I stated I do not have a problem with legalizing it and that if I had to choose between the two I would ban alcohol.
4) Yes, in order to make marijuana legal the Federal laws will have to be changed. States rights were eroded with the loss of the Civil War. The ignorant racist of the old south killed states rights.
6) Growing your own... It pot was legal you would not need to grow your own. How many cigarette smokers grow their own tobacco?
7) It can do both when dealing with felonies. As for misdemeanor it does not really help anything. Misdemeanor pot charges are only going to get you fined unless you slap the judge and urinate on his desk.

How do I know rehad does not work? Because I deal with the same people over and over for the most part. I am in court when they get sentenced to rehab and then I find them back at it again a month later... I do not know the solution. Sorry, I will not say where I work.

[dog_lovin_dem]

351. "How do I know that rehab doesn't work?"

As a former mental health counselor who also dealt with substance abusers on a regular basis, I agree that rehab that is court ordered, or entered into to lessen a sentence, etc., does not work in the majority of cases. On the other hand, rehab that is self-chosen is much more likely to be successful.
Additionally, the least successful rehab clients in my neck of the woods tend to be meth addicts.

[Sterling]

219. how do you know the rehab does not work?

He doesn't. He seems to really dislike hippy's and stoner's and was shocked to learn pot helps people with cancer. He is very opinionated but it is clear that those opinions are based on mostly shallow understandings of the subject and very little actual research or data.

I doubt he really knows much about the private prison system and even less about the well funded groups that influence our government to promote a war on drugs.

[hfojvt]

256. I really dislike that "reasoning"

"There are consequences in life. You break the laws you go to jail."
Obviously, it is not true in the first place. You need to break the law, get caught,get arrested, get prosecuted, get convicted, and get sentenced before you goto jail. As the Bard said, 'there is many a slip 'twixt cup and lip.'
In the second place, being run through the meat grinder of the justice system is not a consequence of anyone's actions. It is a societal choice. Let me illustrate. If you jump off a building without a bungee cord or other attachments, you fall and crash. The fall is a consequence of the jump. If, on the other hand Francis tells me "if you touch my stuff, I will kill you" and I touch his stuff, getting killed is not a consequence of what I did. It requires action on the part of Francis, which may or may not be considered "justice".
Then again, I am unclear as to how knowledge of the sociology or philosophy of crime and punishment is going to help you in your job. Those sorts of things need to be built into the laws and policies.

[Boosterman]

290. I would take exception

with your assertion that alcohol can be used w/o impairing the user. Even 1 drink can dull your reflexes.

Good luck to you sir. I have nothing but respect for honest cops. Pity theres so few around here.

[ohio_liberal]

319. ...

7) Locking people up: Just sending people to treatment does not work. I see this every day. My city has a drug court that sends offenders to rehab, rarely works. Their are consequences in life. You break the laws you go to jail.

Our county drug court is highly successful. I'd like to hear more about what your city is doing, or doing wrong.

[SouthernDem2004]

322. Reply:

They send people to normal drug classes and programs. They also put them on probation and do testing.

Does your city have any unique drug programs?

[ohio_liberal]

362. Ohio has strong drug courts

I work quite a bit with Common Pleas drug courts (I work for the Ohio DRC APA). Not only is there mandatory community-based drug counseling (both individual and group), but also job counseling, family counseling, working with housing concerns, medical services, regular meetings with probation officers, frequent urinalysis, community service, AA/NA meetings and so on. It seems that for the drug/alcohol abusers and small-time traffickers there's more often than not an underlying reason behind the offense such as chronic job disruption, etc. I don't want to make it sound perfect because it's not. There are always new arrests, non-compliance, and absconders. The counselers tend to not want to work around a client's job or school schedule (which pisses me off regularly). On the whole, I believe the drug courts that are able to identify and target various needs other than substance
abuse have the best successs of reducing relapse into criminal behaviors.

[orthogonal]

191. How does US drug policy hurt law enforcement?

I personally think (marijuana) should be legalized.

What are the costs to police officers and to law enforcement a whole, of US drug policy?

Do tough penalties for drug charges make officers' work more dangerous?

Does the great amount of money in the illegal drug trade fuel corruption in law enforcement?

Does strict enforcement and teh attendant searches, etc., provoke antagonism and suspicion of police in communities where drugs are sold, making law enforcement more difficult in those areas?

[SouthernDem2004]

197. I agree that marijuana should be legalized...

The monetary cost for the war on drugs is pretty high. I do not know the numbers off hand.

Do tough penalties make work more dangerous? Only in a small number of instances. It is a common misconception that people go to prison for minor drug offenses. For someone to go to prison I basicly have to get 3 felony convictions first before they will even see a prison. It does make the people transporting drugs dangerous though. I am talking about the people that are running drugs. They are dangerous people.

There is not as much corruption as people would have you believe. It is actually not common. Movies and TV shows are not real life. Is there some corruption? Of course... Police are human beings. Where you have humans, you have morons.

As to your last question about antagonism... the answer is basicly yes. It does not make the job harder but it does cause antagonism. What causes the anatgonism is not searched and the like, its the amount of contact they have with the Police. For example, Let is say you live in a low crime middle class neighborhood. The odds are the Police are not going to be patroling your area that often because there is no real reason. You rarely have to worry about the Police stopping you for traffic violations and can basicly drives as you please. Now let us say you live in a high crime, poorer neighborhood. The Police are going to patrol your area constantly and there will be more Police assigned to that area. So you are going to see the Police almost constantly. This is going to mean that the Police are more likely to observe your traffic infractions and pull you over. I am sure you can see the problem.

[sweetheart]

234. Should police carry guns

British police have been very successful at not shooting people on a
comparative average, as they don't carry guns. What do you think of
police not carrying guns and having to use human skills of getting
along instead of lethal force.

It appears the british method is much more sucessful in places like
basra where american hard-policing just creates enemies... perhaps this
could work on the home front as well?

[SouthernDem2004]

237. Some British Police do carry guns...

There is a huge difference between us and them. Guns are everywhere in the U.S. There is no way we could disarm. I have been at 4 officer involved shootings. One involved a suspect shooting an officer, two instances of the suspect shootinmg at officers but missing and one the suspect was shooting his wife. I do not see how human skills would have worked in any of these cases. As long as the public is heavily armed we must be also. It is just not realistic.

Also, the British are armed to the teeth in Basra. The British are just posted in less viloent areas in the south of Iraq. We also have troops in those areas that have no problems with the general populace.

[K-W]

264. Poor pain killer?

It beats the living daylights out of anything you can get over the counter and is far less addictive and dangerous than opiates.

[SouthernDem2004]

279. No doubt it is better then over the counte but...

if it is legalized for medicinal purposes it will not be over the counter. There are far better prescription pain relievers.

[egoprofit]

327. :::applause:::

i agree. legalize it! stop arresting kids and giving them criminal records for getting high every once in a while. besides our courts have more important issues to address.. drunk drivers for instance.

[SouthernDem2004]

336. I never said kids should be allowed to smoke.

I would stick with the same restrictions as alcohol.

[ladjf]

2. Are you saying that you will only answer questions from people

who are courteous? That would be a narrow scope.

[TX-RAT]

3. questions and misconceptions about law enforcement

Thats an under statement.
You'll find out, being a peace officer gets little respect around here.
Good Luck




Retired, Sheriffs Department.

[Sterling]

221. You'll find out, being a peace officer gets little respect around here.

That must really eat you up since most people are frightened of you and kiss your ass.

[TX-RAT]

270. Now thats funny

Yea i spent 21 yrs with the SO for just those reasons. jeezzzzzz!
Theres a couple of memorials on Interstate 20 in west TX, ones at mile marker 168, the others at mile marker 186. If your ever traveling through i would hope you'd stop and read. Both of these men were friends of mine. One was hit by a drunk while changing a womans tire. The other was shot in the face during a routine traffic stop. Both left family's behind. They didn't want respect, they didn't want thank you's, they didn't want their ass kissed. They just wanted to protect and serve the good people of this county, a job few are willing to take on.

If you ever catch a clue, hang on to it, because your in desperate need of one.

[IdaBriggs]

4. My "brilliant" opinion re: underage drug use --

Use the CIVIL courts to sue the folks who either a) provide the illegal drugs to minors, and b) the folks in whose homes the illegal drug use is taking place.

No offense meant, but it appears that police officers are kind of busy tracking down "real" crimes, and illegal drug use by minors is kind of penny ante stuff (sp?). Plus, I've been told by other police officers that most parents don't want their teenage children to go to jail, but "just want you to put a scare into them" -- like the police have time to discipline your children for you -- so drug use by minors gets kind of ignored in favor of going after the "big time dealers" until such time as the kids escalate into harder drug use and/or crime to pay for the habit.

One of my nieces became a teenage heroin addict. Her mother (my sister) is now deceased, but a huge family fight occurred when my sister confessed at a family Christmas that she had provided marijuana to both my niece and her boyfriend (both age sixteen!) THE DAY AFTER THE BOYFRIEND GOT OUT OF DRUG REHAB. I always wondered if she may have taken the stupidity of her actions a little more seriously if HIS family had sued the pants off of her....

In the meantime, the boyfriend has now spent a great deal of the last few years in jail for dealing, while my heroin junkie niece seems to be staying clean -- for now.

I'm confident these types of stories aren't news to you; what do you think of turning the personal injury lawyers loose on these folks? If slip-n-fall accidents and dog bites can become big business, what do you think of the idea of civil penalties for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" as a way of going after the small time folks?

[SouthernDem2004]

9. The state does not get involved in civil lawsuits...

The only people that could sue the so called "parents" would be the childrem themselves or the children's legal guardian if they were taken away from the "parents."

You story is far to common. In cases like this there is really little the Police can do. We often lack the evidence to make an arrest. We lack the authority to really investigate these kind of problems in the home. However, your Department of Human Services or whatever your state calls its child welfare agency does. If you know of any incidents of parents giving children drugs call DHS or file a report with the Police. The Police will contact DHS.

One of the main problems is that we do not know these things are happening. I arrest minors all the time for possession. We have no idea after they are returned to their parents what happpens to them. The case goes to Family Court and we are completley out of it from that point on.

[notadmblnd]

5. Who makes the best doughnuts?

I had to ask.

[lectrobyte]

8. Krispy Kreme used to, but they went big time a few years back

and quality seems to be slipping.

[SouthernDem2004]

10. I still say Krispy Kreme.

[Comicstripper]

340. Krispy Kreme, without question

Don't worry, SouthernDem, I'm on your side. People here don't always have respect for a guy or gal in uniform.

[BigMcLargehuge]

7. Welcome to DU Officer SouthernDem2004

My question: Do you and the other officers ever sit around and watch the funny dash cam recordings you must occasionally end up with?

[SouthernDem2004]

11. All the time...

We actually make highlight tapes. We pull the tapes out of our cars and dub "interesting" incidents onto a VHS tape.

Police go to I guess what you would call continuing ed type classes. They are training classes held throughout the country constantly. During breaks between training we often pop in a video. This seems to be a universal thing with Police.

[BigMcLargehuge]

12. follow up question-

Do you need to see my license and registration?

[SouthernDem2004]

14. Lol, my state does not require the vehicle's registration.

I just need a DL and proof of insurance. :)

[BigMcLargehuge]

16. Proof of insurance... proof of insurance... hold on, it's in here...

somewhere...

Is there a film that you think best exemplifies police work?

[SouthernDem2004]

23. Negative:

There to many different types of Police work for any film to cover. Not to mention alot of what we do would be boring to watch. Even the TV cops is not close because it only shows highlights of week long video shoots.

For example, I work graveyard shift in a high crime area of town. My job is alot different from the Officers in my department that work day shift in another part of town. A big difference in the stress level for one. I would estimate a dayshift officer may draw his weapon maybe once every few months at the most. Graveyard, at least once a week.

[trotsky]

24. Duh, Police Academy!

;-)

[Taragui Junkie]

278. I always wondered about this...

1) I keep my registration & insurance info in a pocket behind the passenger seat of the car. If I'm ever stopped by a LEO, and asked to provide insurance/registration, and I reach behind the seat to grab the info, are most LEO's going to assume I'm going for a weapon? Should I explain what I'm doing first?

2) I travel A LOT for work. Sometimes I have to stop in bad sections of towns or in semi-deserted rest areas. All I have for defense is a pair of nunchaku, with which I'm still pretty efficient. If I'm ever pulled over for a traffic stop, am I likely to be arrested for having a concealed weapon?

[SouthernDem2004]

280. Answers:

1) We always assume you are going for a gun. Wait until the Officer is at your window and asks for the information. Then tell him where it is but do not reach for it until he tells you to. Do not be offend if he puts his hand on his weapon, it is nothing personal. Also, pull the documents out of the pocket slowly.

2) CCW laws vary from state to state. Nunchaku are just plain illegal in some states. I would take them out if I were you. If the police find them it would probably be because they are searching your vehicle for some reason. You do not want to give them a reason to arrest you at that point or another charge they can add on. Get a permit and carry a gun.

[lectrobyte]

13. Hello, and Welcome.

How did you end up in police work?

[SouthernDem2004]

18. It is something I always wanted to do...

After I finished college I quit my higher paying job and became a Cop.
I realized that money alone was not going to make me happy. I now have an interesting job where every day is different. I enjoy the feeling you get when you help someone out of a bad situation or even sometimes save their life. One person can make a difference. I am my brothers keeper.

[Lisabtrucking]

17. Hello, I have a question? What do you think about our effort , to

inform the American people about the irregularity's and fraud in this past election, and do you approve of how we are handling it?

[SouthernDem2004]

25. Hmmm...

First the fraud issue and yes I believe they are two very different issues. I judge most issues like they were a criminal matter. In the instance of fraud one must first ask if they have Probable Cause to believe a crime was committed. To determine whether probable cause existed for purposes of arrest is whether facts and circumstances within the officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. Do we have those facts? The answer is no. I have listened to the threads on this site and others and no one has yet to come up with a single hard fact demonstrating fraud. Until someone comes up with a fact, not suppostion or a feeling, there is no argument for fraud.

Second the irregularities: Is there probable cause showing irregularities? The answer is yes. When I am talking about irregularities I am refering to machines crashing, lack of voting machines and other problems that have been happening for decades. However, I do not see a criminal intent. There are certainly inperfections in the system that need to be addressed.

Finally, Do I approve of how the informing the public is being handled? No offense intended but no I do not. Right now what you have is a case of the messenger killing the message. No one is going to pay attention or take a group seriously if they are spewing hate and I am not saying you are one of the people that is doing so. If you read the forums here you will see what I am talking about. In order to get reform you are going to need both Democrats and Republicans. Calling all Republicans stupid, liars and the such serves no purpose. Anti-religious remarks serve no purpose. People are not going to listen to people that insult them or are arrogant. Ask a Republican if they are for paperless ballots and see what they say. I bet they are against it also. Now walk up to a Republican calling him a lying, murderous idiot and ask him if he is for paperless ballots....I bet he did not hear the question....

There will be no reform of the system until calmer heads prevail. Right now calmer heads do not want to get involved in an issue that might associate them with people spewing hate.

Remember, This is my opinion...

[drdtroit]

103. "Calling all Republicans stupid, liars and the such serves no purpose."

That is a very good point SouthernDem2004. We are supposed to be the more intellectual and progressive thinkers, possessing an elevated level of reason. Narrow minded thinking serves no purpose other than to reinforce ones own prejudices. All republicans are not stupid liars, all police are not "pigs", all (fill in the blank) are not (fill in the blank), on and on. My 50 years on the planet and traveling around the globe several times has proved to me that people are just people and there are good and bad that pervade every aspect of the human experience.

[Lisabtrucking]

171. Thank you, for your response, I had class so didn't get back till now.

I guess I am guilty of ranting a bit. I agree, you do get much more done when both teams can talk civilly. Thanks for your answer, it gives all of us something to think about.

[Az]

20. I am a computer professional

And when watching movies or tv that involve computers they invariably apply a hollywood interp of what they think computers or hacking is like. This drives us computer geeks up the wall (particularly those who understand what hacking is really like (from the security side, not the black hat side)).

So the question. What are the stereotypes and movie cliches that make you grind your teeth about police in the movies?

[SouthernDem2004]

27. Well...

1) The whole "blue wall of silence" bull. The movies act like cops cover or lie for other cops that commit crimes. I am not saying that does not happen occasionally but it is not system wide. Most of us consider Cops that commit crimes to be traitors.

2) That you can kill someone and then be back out working the street a hour later. That does not happen. You are looking at a couple days off at least.

3) All Cops in movies seem to drink ALOT.

4) That CSIs actually go out in the field and interview people. Pffft, all CSI does is respond to a crime scene and collect evidence. They then take the evidence back to the lab and process it. That is the end of their involvement. Any and all further investigation is handled by the detectives.

5) That Police have to read you you Miranda rights. We do not.

6) That you only get one phone call. We let you make more then one call but of course you have to call collect.

I am sure I can think of many more :)

[lectrobyte]

38. No Mirandization? That's a bit of a surprise, I figured that

was probably one thing the cop shows got right.

[SouthernDem2004]

43. Miranda rights are only needed for interview/interrogation purposes...

The only time I need to read Miranda is if I am asking questions that I may use in court testimony or it may lead to the discovery of evidence. Even then I only read them in possible felony cases.

Most of the time I never read them. Most of the time I have more then enough evidence to convict someone without a confession or statement.

[lectrobyte]

54. Thanks, I did not know that, and

thanks for taking the time to talk to us here, and I hope you really feel at home here. Keep up the good work.

[trotsky]

22. What does your average cop think about gun control in general,

and about handgun control in particular? Any difference?

On edit: Thanks for protecting us!

[SouthernDem2004]

29. Both are the same issue.

Everyone I know is for gun control. I do not know anyone personally that is for banning guns outright. The gun laws that just expired need to be renewed and once they are they need to be enforced. We were happy with the old laws.

[Lerkfish]

32. how to handle a trooper who's WRONG?

I bought a new car, and was testing the cruise control...therefore I knew EXACTLY how fast I was going, because I was monitoring it. I was going 67 in a 65 mph. (yes, two miles over, but I was aware of that).
The cop pulled me over and told me I was going 85!!!!. There was no way that was possible, since I was on cruise, and besides which I had my six year old in the car at the time.
He either was dead wrong, or intentionally lying, which of course I could not prove.
I found myself powerless to do anything but disagree, respectfully, but pay the ticket.

I think I'd have had no problem to be correctly pulled over, or if the speed charged was even in the vicinity of my actual speed, or if I hadn't been using the cruise control.

oh well, there are worse problems in the world.

[SouthernDem2004]

39. Well...

It is unlikely he is lying. It is possible his radar clocked a vehicle doing 85 and he just stopped the wrong one.

If money is an issue do not pay the ticket by mail. Go to court and plead guilty to the judge. They normally access a lower fine. Also, if you can not come up with the money they will often set up payment plans.

If you had gone to trial you would have had 2 technical points you could have argued. Aside from that it would have been his word against yours. You would have lost in that case.

Hard truth is that life is not fair and some people in jail really are innocent.

[Lerkfish]

42. I also thought he had the wrong vehicle...

because people were passing me right before he pulled me over.

but you're right, there wasn't much I could do about it.

[SouthernDem2004]

56. If you do speed, not that I am condoning such activity:

1) Stay out of the fast lane. (The far left lane.) You stand out and Cops pay more attention to that lane.

2) If you see a Cop, slow down. Some people think that since they already got clocked speeding there is no point in slowing down. Continuing to speed is often seen by Police as being disrespectful.

3) Once you pass a Cop do NOT speed up. We have rear facing radar.

4) Use a radar detector if it is legal in your state. Most of the time we leave the radar constantly on just to slow down traffic. We are not all out to right tickets. Often we just want to slow traffic down. (All radar detectors are not equal, choose wisely.)

5) Those radar cloaker/jammer things do not work. Do not waste your money.

6) If stopped stay in your vehicle. Do not get out unless told to do so. Be polite. Do not cry. Do not flirt (This actually may work sometimes but it ticks off Cops like me.) Do not argue with the Police or say he is wrong. Do not throw out names like "Do you know officer so in so.) Do not lie about the reason for the violation. I have let off more people with a warning for telling me they had no excuse then any other made up bull. I do not like it when people insult my intelligence. Do not ask for a warning. Do exactly what the officers tells you to. Do NOT reach under your seat or anywhere else for that matter. Freaks us out...

[Walt Starr]

88. My radar detector usually picks up from three miles away

Is this a pretty good one in your opinion? I've watched from the first indication until I pass the cop with the radar gun. When stationary, I usually run up on the cop in about three miles. If the cop is coming towards me on the opposite side of the road, I usually see him about a mile and a half down the road.

I know the laser detector sucks because I actually had it go off once and the cop was right in front of me. He had to have painted me with his laser at about the same time I detected him, fortunately I wasn;t speeding at the time.

I also have a feature that lets me know if a cop has a radar detector detector, but I've yet to drive in a state where radar detectors are illegal to test it out.

[SouthernDem2004]

90. The problem with some radar detectors is...

That some just plain do not work. I have no idea which brands but I have stopped numerous people that had detectors that did not pick up my low band Ka. These were newer models too.

Laser detection is a scam. A laser radar gun shoots a single laser beam. The Officer aims the beam using a sight just like on a gun. It even has a tone telling you when it hits a moving target. Think of a laser pointer. It omits a single narrow beam like a radar gun. For your laser radar detector to work that beam would have to actually hit the detector. Sorry, but the Officer is not aiming at your detector. :)

[Walt Starr]

93. Yeah, but the radar detector came with the laser detector

:shrug: It was a package deal, both in the same device.

My radar detector works just fine. I also find it helpful to follow somebody whom I label "bait". If possible I find somebody on the road traveling about as fast as I travel and just stay behind them, when the detector goes off I slow down and my "bait" gets the ticket.

[SouthernDem2004]

126. I would not count on that...

Two reasons:

1) I never take the first car. Why? Because I know what the cars behind him are doing. :)

2) When people are running drugs they often use two or more vehicles. The first vehicle is there to distract the Police while the other goes on past. Its like that old movie Smokey and the Bandit.

[Walt Starr]

131. Yeah, but I'm doing the limit when you get to me

I'm doing 65 while the guy in front is doing 80 because I slowed down since I knew you were there.

:eilgrin:

[slutticus]

202. OMG

3) Once you pass a Cop do NOT speed up. We have rear facing radar.

I did not know that.

[SouthernDem2004]

205. Not many people do...

All I have to do is push a button and it switches to the unit mounted on the rear deck of the car.

This is one of the more common types of systems: http://www.stalkerradar.com/law_2x.shtml

[slutticus]

206. Have you ever busted anyone that way?

[SouthernDem2004]

209. That probably accounts for about 30% of my speeding stops.

I do not do a lot of traffic though. I am a Patrol Officer and generally do not care about traffic unless someone is driving dangerously. 50 in a 35 or something of that nature depending on the area, I usually just flash my lights to get them to slow down. If they speed up again once they pass me... well its time to have a little talk.

[slutticus]

211. Wow.

Yeah...i'm usually spooked enough after a cop flashes their lights at me that I slow down for quite a while. I never do more than 10 over the speed limit in residential areas anyway.

Is it true that police and other emergency responders are only allowed to go 20mph above the speed limit when the emergency lights and sirens are turned on? I heard that somewhere.

[SouthernDem2004]

216. It depends on staete law but I believe...

20 MPH is most common. I know that is the law in my state. We violate that law like you would not believe. Lets say your at work and your wife and kids are home alone. Your wife went to the store and on the way home she notices a car that seems to be following her. There is only one person in the car and it looks like a man. Its 11:30 PM. Your wife loses sight of the other vehicle and returns home. A short time later she hears noises at the back door. She peers out a window and sees the man from the vehicle at her back door doing something to the lock. On the ground beside the man she can see duct tape and a knife. She calls the Police. Ok, here is the thing. She lives down a long road that has a posted limit of 15 MPH! Also, the roads leading to hers have varying limits between 15 and 35 mph. Do you think I should drive 35 MPH to get to the call? This is an actual call I answered one night. If you think I drove 35 you are sadly mistaken. :)

[slutticus]

243. I was hoping you guys violated that rule often!

:)

[patdem]

217. You are SO RIGHT..the ONLY time I was let off when stopped was

for an expired inspection sticker I told the police officer I knew it was expired and I was waiting for either a ticket or an infusion of cash...he gave me a warning and I went directly to the inspection station with my weeks paycheck...we ate macaroni that week, but I did NOT get a ticket!

[Taragui Junkie]

281. Oh. You just answered my earlier question

about reaching behind my seat for my insurance/registration info. That would be a no-no.

The issue about speeding brings up a question. Why do you (LEO's in general--usually Highway Patrol) sometimes like to drive UNDER the speed limit? On a 4-lane divided, this usually yields hilarious results: You get a gaggle of nervous Nellies who are afraid to go the ACTUAL speed limit for fear of passing the trooper, even though he's only going, say, 61 in a 65 zone.

Then someone like me says "Forget this!" and I zip past the whole gaggle and the trooper, doing 65. I'm at the speed limit, but I feel nervous and strangely guilty while doing so, afraid that I might get pulled over just for (gasp!) passing an officer.

So my question is: Do you guys just laugh your heads off at us? I can picture two troopers in their car: "Get a load of this, Tom! I got sixteen vehicles backed up behind me! And I'm only doing 41 in a 55 zone!"

[SouthernDem2004]

282. Possible reasons:

1) Yes, it is funny. :)

2) The margin of error on a normal vehicle's speedometer is normally +/- 3 MPH. It can be higher if you do not have the same size tires as that were originally on the vehicle or the speedometer can be out of wack.

3) It is a rolling speed trap. Several miles ahead is an Officer sitting and waiting. At some point the Officer slowing down the traffic is going to exit the Interstate. The citizen's by basic human nature are going to speed up then and some are going to try and make up for lost time by driving even faster. Your radar detecter will be useless since the slowing Officer still has his on and its effecting your detecter. Tickets away...

4) The officer is in no hurry and is just crusing along with no where to go.

5) If it is on a normal street the Officer maybe looking for criminal activity. It is hard to see in between houses and businesses when you are doing 45 MPH.

[Taragui Junkie]

284. I usually drive 4-5 miles over the posted limit on highways.

I know it's wrong, but I'm an American and it's my right to be stupid.

Anyway, how likely is it that I'll get stopped--highways and Interstates?

I never have been yet, but I don't know how long my luck will hold out. What % of the time would a cop/trooper pull me over for 70 in a 65?

[ebayfool]

325. '...let off more people with a warning for telling me they had no excuse'

I've had that happen twice (in 30 yrs driving), both times on the way home from work exhausted & wanting to go home to bed, speeding w/out realizing it. When the officers asked me 'do you know why I stopped you' I was too beat to try to talk them out of a ticket, just said speeding, & when asked why told them the truth - I just worked xxx hours/days, I wanna go to bed, write my ticket fast & let me go home, please. To my shock, both times they just looked at me for a second & said, go home. Taught me alot, no need to BS - be honest & sometimes you get a break! Now, I set my hours, so bosses aren't working my behind in the ground w/no sleep!

[sierrajim]

330. I must disagree with this one

Years back I lived in Washington State and this happened. I had an old beater pickup truck with a bad carburetor and nothing on this planet could make it go over 50 MPH. I Had my two roommates in the cab with me I was passed by two newer cars and then I drove passed a parked State Patrol car, He promptly pulled me over walked up to my window and said I was speeding he really didn't like what I told him next I called him a f*cking liar to his face explaining that my truck cant go over 50. To say the least he was a bit shocked then made up a bull story saying that he had already erased the radar gun so he wouldn't give me a speeding ticket so instead he gave us all seatbelt tickets, Was I steamed you beat I was and I let him know it.

[SouthernDem2004]

337. Reply:

I doubt you would have gotten any tickets if you had been polite. Curse the Officer AFTER the stop, not during.

[sierrajim]

355. That may be so

But as the saying goes "I gota be me". When someone and I really dont care who it is accuses me of something that I have not done I will let them know in my own way. To me cops doing their job is just a job I get no special treatment for doing mine so they get none for doing theirs but as you said earlier we are all human and that in all walks of life we have good and bad. I have met some really nice cops, But when you met the ones on the other end of the spectrum it can really screw up your day. I do have a couple of other glaring examples of some cops that are real bad I'll give you one right now. This was in the days of longer hair I had hair maybe down to the the top of my shoulder driving my box stock 4 Cyl mustang (And I really pride myself on being a courteous driver I try not to go more than 5MPH over the limit I stop at stop signs let others merge and so on) and not doing anything illegal I get a cop behind me and he pulls me over I wait for him to come to my window. Then without any attitude I ask him why he pulled me over his answer to me was and I quote "Wheres the drugs at". Man did that ever light my fire for one thing I dont do drugs then or now except maybe a few beers. So needless to say he really didnt like it when I said IF THEY WERE SHOVED UP YOUR ASS I BET YOU WOULD KNOW. So the moral of the story is, If you are polite to me I will be polite to you.

[SouthernDem2004]

360. Reply:

Well often people commit minor traffic offenses and are not aware of it. Alot of traffic violations are caused by inattention which is why we write warning citations. I personal do not care if someone is rude or not. It is just like on this forum. If you are rude or unable to participate in civil discourse I ignore you. I do the same at work. Of course I am going to charge you with every violation you committed... If you want to get rude you the Police because you think you are right then go right ahead but know what the consequences are. I stick with the advice I have given that you should always be polite even if the Cop is wrong. Curse him after he has left. You will find life alot easier that way.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

34. have you ever felt guilty for carrying out your duty?

have you ever been in a situation where you find our laws and the results there of actually worsen a situation?

[SouthernDem2004]

47. Not that I can recall off hand...

The reason is that I do not have to arrest someone if I do not want to.

There have been times where I have had to arrest parents and the children had to go to a juvenile shelter. It can be heart wrenching but sometimes it must be done.

[Bunny]

37. What do you think of Reno 911? n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

48. Love it, I watch it every week.

[Bunny]

49. It's had me laughing so hard, I was crying.

Glad to have you here, and thanks for your public service.

[tom_paine]

40. Question for SouthernDem2004

Have the Supreme Court (I like to call it the Judicial Arm of the Coup because, it is neither Supreme nor a Court anymore, IMHO, and will become less so as the transition from the Old Free USA to Imperial Amerika speeds up) rulings on due process such as the Texas ruling whih allows an officer to cuff and search a vehicle without probable cause or the provisions of the unPATRIOT Act, changed how you and your fellows perform your duties.

Are more corners now being cut? More warrants ducked? Perhaps, like Tom DeLay in Texas, abuse of PATRIOT Act for use against people who are merely criminals, not national security risks?

I believe cops are like religious heirarchies. You do so much good with one hand while doing so much bad with the other (crooked cops, cutting corners, railroading innocents, lying on the stand, and HELL YES does watching a cop 100% lie on the stand, even in Traffic Court, change a person's view FOREVER on your profession). But if one acknowledges the great wrongs cops and law enforcement perpetrate (and it's only going to get worse now that the Busheviks are pushing us back to Mississippi 1930s Law Enforcement with people who oppose the Busheviks as the Uppity Negroes and the Busheviks as the KKK/CCC) then one must also acknowledge the great good cops do for many, too.

So, I went off on a tangent, but my initial question remains:

Has the recent changes in Amerika over the last 4 years such as unPATRIOT and Supreme Court Rulings changed the way you and your compatriots do your jobs?

[SouthernDem2004]

50. I can not search a vehicle without probable cause...

I can cuff anyone I want for safety purposes but I am not sure what you are talking about in regards to a vehicle search. I am rather well versed in this topic. Can you clarify? I can do a wing-span search of the drivers immediate area but I can not search the entire vehicle without probable cause.

I remember a briefing at work just after the Patriot Act was passed and some groups were complaining on tv. We all found the whole thing rather amusing. Most of the powers opposition thought were new actually were not. We already had alot of the powers the Patriot Act granted. The PA was just political smoke and mirriors the administration used to make the public think they were doing something. The few new powers granted were given to the Feds. I really do not have a problem with the PA. I do not think it has been abused yet.

[tom_paine]

62. Oh, it has been abused at least once already

http://www.populist.com/03.11.edit.html

Note the OHS was used to track the aircraft of Democratic Legislators using PATRIOT provisions.

That's at least one incidence you don't know of. I wonder how many others are out there?

As to the "Supreme Court" ruling, scroll down on the list below to the heading "Searches Incident to Arrest for Minor Offenses"

http://www.radford.edu/~jcall/VACP/2002VACP.htm

There's much more on all this that I don't have time to gather for you.

And I strongly disagree that the unPA was "smoke and mirrors"

Sneak & Peek?

The right to access ANY record at ANY time without probable cause or a judge's signature?

The right of the Executive Branch to define people as "terrorists" using a (deliberate, IMHO) broadly worded definition that could apply to virtually anyone.

Even IF the unPA hasn't yet been abused, as a cop I am sure you are well aware of the very human tendency to cut corners, to take advantages and the necessity of explicitly having checks on bad conduct rather than handing out unchecked carte blanche and relying on People's Good Nature (which I am sure your job brings you with in contact every day) to keep them from violating the law.

[SouthernDem2004]

76. You article from populist...

The PA was not missused. A Congressmen abused his power and got information he should not have had access to. I do not see how the PA was involved here.


I am well aware of searches incident to arrest. I do it all of the time. Once I arrest someone I can search the vehicle prior to its being towed for the purposes of inventory. I can search the interior and trunk but that is it.

[TX-RAT]

57. Another misconception

(the Texas ruling which allows an officer to cuff and search a vehicle without probable cause )
Still requires probable cause, your permission or a search warrant.
Being cuffed and detained is not being arrested.

[tom_paine]

64. Is that because of State Law overriding the federal law?

If a custodial arrest is made, both the individual and vehicle are open to search, is it not so?

And since when is being cuffed and detained NOT being arrested? I suppose I could see the detained part (such as being detained for questioning relating to a crime), but the cuffing?

What are the rules, if any for "cuffing and detaining" outside of the arrest process (which, by the way is clearly NOT the case in the "Supreme Court" case I linked to above)?

Is there a name for this non-arrest 'cuffing and detaining'?

[SouthernDem2004]

78. Being cuffed...

is not the same as being arrested. Being cuffed does not mean you are being chraged with any crime. It is done mainly for Officer Safety reasons until the situation can be straightened out. It is often called investigative detention. I can detain you for 72 hours without actually charging you with anything.

[MsTryska]

51. Here's a couple of questions.....

one - how much leeway do y'all have in deciding when to arrest someone and what for?


i got arrested once in a really bizarre scenario, and i've often wondered why they even bothered arresting me. (the case eventually wound up being dismissed - it was a twisted tragic chain of events, but the judge felt the case itself was worthless once all was said and done) if you want the details i'd be happy to share.


in any case that was question 1. question 2:


how do you feel about Homeland Security money and al the pseudo-attention paid to "First Responders" - are you really seeing anything qualitative coming from the hoohaa or is it all jsut smoke and mirrors?

[SouthernDem2004]

80. Answers:

1) I have alot of leeway. I do not have to arrrest anyone I do not want to. If a citizen wants to make a "citizens arrest" I can refuse to do it and tell them they must go sign charges and get a warrant from a judge.

2) Most citys have gotten grants from HS. The funding has helped alot of agencys buy equipment they could not normally afford. I have actually seen some positive things. Communication between Law Enforcement has become alot better and Fed agencys are actually listening to local law enforcement for a change.

[MsTryska]

83. Thanks.

1.) that sucks. it means i was targeted for no good reason. despite the other parties involved not wanting charges pressed.


well let me sketch out the whole story - please tell me what you would have done:


I was 18 and living at my parents house, in the neighborhood i grew up in. I was driving into the entrance of the community and saw a kid i used to babysit, with a skateboard. he wasn't wearign a helemt (this was beofre it was required by law) he waved me down, and asked me if he could hitch a ride on my bumper. I said okay, and he grabbed by window and we went downt he street - goign about 2 miles an hour. well he hit a rock, and fell off, and hit his head ont he pavement. I wigged out, and went up the street to get my Dad - he's a doctor. This kid's dad was also a doctor, and his mom was a volunteer EMT. they were in Mexico at the time. My dad came an saw him, checked him out and said he would be alright, but an ambulance was called. They came and picked him up, recognizing who he was, and they notified his grandmother, who was ticked because she specifically told him not to go hitching rides off cars, so he just moved to the other side of the neighborhood and did it anyway.


So a few hours later, i got arrested in my living room for endangering the welfare of a child, permitting clinging and Felony Assault.


The kids parents came back from mexico that night, apologized to me for their son's behavior, and tried to get the charges dropped, but no dice.


from here the story gets even more twisted, but let's just leave it at the arrest - would you have oden the same thing? (this was a very small town)

[UdoKier]

53. Why are so many cops so eager to put on stormtrooper gear...

...and attack peaceful demonstrators?

Why are so many cops, who get meager pay for dangerous work, so zealous about protecting the property of the wealthy?

I'm grateful for the work of the many good cops out there, but I wish I felt like more of them were on the side of working and poor people, rather than just folks being paid to keep the rich safe from the rest of us...

PS - in case you're wondering, I've never been arrested or harrassed - I keep my nose very clean - but I have observed this...

EDIT: Just to clarify, I was living and working in downtown Miami during the FTAA, and I saw THOUSANDS of cops in stormtrooper gear there to protect a bunch of FOREIGN robber barons from a few thousand AMERICANS who simply want trade policies that are fair to labor.

It was terrifying.

[meisje]

69. self delete

[el_gato]

82. seems like the "cop" didn't want to answer your question Udokier

I think I know the answer.

[SouthernDem2004]

91. You are mistaken.

[el_gato]

127. You haven't answered the questions

[SouthernDem2004]

84. Riot gear....

We hate it. It is hot and uncomfortable. Mine is actually sitting in a bag beside me right now. I hate it with a passion. The gear is solely for our protecting. I am not going to let someone hurt me. We all know that protesters throw things and some come to cause trouble.

Attack demonstrators? The word attack is not fair in my opinion. We stop people from breaking the law. That is what we do.

Are you saying that some people do not have legal rights? That they should not be protected from harm? You do not have the right to harm anyone just because you do not like them or disagree with them. You do not have the right to destroy their property. It is my job to keep everyone safe. Notice you keep saying "protect." That is exactly what we do. Yes, we protect them just as we protect you.

I do not see anything wrong in your picture. The Officer on the far right has a pepperspray pellet gun. The shotgun with the red tape fires bean bags and the guy on the ground is being arrested I am sure for a reason.

[UdoKier]

95. You are skirting the issue entirely.

The people who came to Miami were there to conspire with our business "leaders" to undermine our own laws with a trade agreement that supersedes them. The automatic assumption on the part of the police that the demonstrators are the ones prone to break the law and the foreigners are law-abiding is a big part of the problem.

The gear is solely for our protecting. I am not going to let someone hurt me. We all know that protesters throw things and some come to cause trouble.

No, it also serves to intimidate, especially when you have phalanxes of thousands of these stormtroopers moving in on peaceful demonstrators, rapping their batons on their shields, attacking protesters who fail to do as the officers want. You need to research what happened at FTAA a bit more. The Police presence was way over the top - stormtroopers facing down union guys with walking sticks. so many people were injured who did absolutely nothing wrong.

And no, I DON'T know that protesters come to throw things and cause trouble. I see cops starting the trouble with confrontational tactics.

But my real question is why would cops help these thugs to destroy our country. A better day for a "blue flu" I cannot imagine.

But it's okay. You know which side your bread is buttered on, and you don't really care that it's only the thinnest film of cheap margarine.

[devilgrrl]

99. You should ask the question like this...

Why do poorly payed, underappreciated police officers always seem to protect the individuals that make sure that their salaries stay that way?

Here's another...

Why do cops always incite violence at peaceful protests?

[SouthernDem2004]

104. How do Cops incite violence???

[devilgrrl]

110. Easy... pushing and shoving people without provocation

I have seen several acts of uncalled bullying by the LAPD at protests in Hollywood. Do I judge the entire LAPD for these few bad apples? No! So quit acting like it never happens.

[el_gato]

124. they arrest people in Texas just for organization as well

they were infiltration anti-war meetings with the hops of preventing protests etc., funny how the cops never seem to infiltrate meetings for republican war mongers. (of course, most cops are war mongers as well)

[drdtroit]

122. NYPD purposley riding their scooters into the back of a demonstration

march in midtown during the GOP convention. Running people down and puposely inciting violence. It happened.

[SouthernDem2004]

130. I have no knowledge of that so can not respond. Sorry

[Sterling]

265. It would be nice if cops bothered to get some knowledge

about these kinds of events. It would almost seem like you guys gave a fuck about the people you serve and protect if you were to actually take notice of your brethren's abuses on them.

[alexisfree]

163. seen video of that happen i think one police was sent to the hospital

the people jumped him because the idiot was trying to incite a riot in plainclothes. Good for the citizens I am so glad they chose to defend themselves I think ACLU got invloved.

[I_equals_PRT]

349. yeah, and for that we pay taxes, n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

101. You are talking politics...

You want Police that support your political views which I might add I probably agree with. It does not and should not work this way. When I am on duty I am not a Democrat, I am a Police Officer. I am an agent of the state. I enforce the laws. If you do not like the laws then you must change them.

Protesters do cause problems. They need the media attention to get their message out. Are the majority peaceful? Yes. Are there some that plan trouble? Oh yea.

Load up WinAmp and choose its TV playlist. I believe it is called FreedomTV. Its one of the activist stations. One documentory is about a group planning for a World Bank/IMF meeting. Watch it. Watch as they plan how to cause problems.

[Az]

109. Then the real question is

How do activists achieve their goal best without creating a situation where the police must adversly interact with them?

What forms of protest have you seen that were effective but gave the police no cause to intervene?

[SouthernDem2004]

128. Good question:

I see no other way for the protesters to be heard other then causing a problem. I never said I did not understand their tactics. I do not have anything against protesters. I wish the had a venue where they would be heard but I am afraid causing a media stir seems to be their only course of action at this time.

The purpose of most protest is for the protesters opinion to be heard. Have I ever seen an effective protest with violence or destruction. Sadly, No. I political system is seriously flawed. These protesters are causing problems because they feel strongly about something and it is the only way for them to be heard. I respect that but I am still a Police Officer.

[Az]

I do understand that

You have to work with the laws you have. We have to provide you with laws that work. Thank you for doing the job that needs doing.

[Sterling]

227. He just said he can arrest who he wants.

Do the math.

[UdoKier]

177. To be fair, I have seen cops being friendly and sympathetic to protesters.

At the anti-war protests in Miami, some cops were dispassionate, and some seemed to be on our side but they were not in riot gear, and were not coming at us in a confrontational way as they did at the FTAA.

Another problem at FTAA was that they brought in thousands of cops from all over Florida, including many very rightwing backwater areas - and I think they accounted for a lot of the abuses that took place that day. The thug chief Timoney should have been fired, but he patted himself on the back the next day, and the corporate-owned local paper did likewise.

[el_gato]

116. the cops are political

they are supporting the destruction of this country for the sake of the capitalist class but this is not surprising because that is the very reason cops were created in the first place.

[UdoKier]

176. Sometimes the peace needs to be disturbed.

And these people are not bloodthirsty killers or criminals.

And yeas, I want police officers to identify with and show solidarity with other members of the working class. Protecting thuggish crony capitalists from AMERICAN CITIZENS is not the same thing as busting a meth lab or catching a serial killer.

And my comments about "blue flu" stand. If you think your own salary and benefits are worth it, there should be some police operations that conscientious officer would want to opt out of participating in.

And the level of armament in Miami was again, WAY over the top. I didn't participate in the protests there because I was working, but I was working downtown. I have never felt so scared of police in my life - THOUSANDS of them in that riot gear, EVERYWHERE.

The police should have been prepared for disorder, but showing up like that from the beginning is needlessly confrontational.

[tx_dem41]

179. You didn't participate because you were working?....

hopefully you weren't working for a "thuggish crony capitalist" or someone might ask how your situation is that different from the policemen you criticize.

[UdoKier]

182. No, I was working for a LOCAL entrepreneur.

Not foreign moguls vying for trade pacts that nullify US labor and environmental laws.

Any more smug, smart-ass remarks you'd like to unload?

[tx_dem41]

184. Not sure where the hostility comes from.

I just found it odd that you didn't go to a demonstration/protest that you were so passionate about.

[UdoKier]

187. It comes from your rude insinuation that I'm some sort of hypocrite

I have a wife and kids to feed, and the scene there was obviously very dangerous, thanks to the thousands of unruly COPS. So sue me.

[tx_dem41]

188. That's about exactly what a lot of those cops would say, too.

Thank goodness there are protesters in the world willing to sacrifice. Goodness knows where historically oppressed people in the world would be if such sacrifices hadn't been made.

[UdoKier]

189. Maybe if there was ANYTHING for my family to fall back on, I would.

I barely keep them fed as it is. No life insurance, no benefits, no inheritance.

I go to to the demonstrations that I can go to.

As for the cops, I find it hard to fathom why they would even show up for such a shameful attack on their fellow citizens in the name of a bunch of foreign moguls, much less why they had no identification, or why they failed to instruct the crowds what to do and instead just attacked people whenever they felt like it.

[tx_dem41]

190. Maybe their reason is......

that there was nothing for their family to fall back on and they could barely keep them fed.

[UdoKier]

192. Wow. glad to see you admire the protesters...

... while you simultaneously cheer on the cops for clobbering them.

[tx_dem41]

193. Please point out where...

I "cheer on the cobs (sic) for clobbering them" I must have missed it, or you just made it up...quite dishonestly.

[UdoKier]

194. Just seems that you're tying to take both sides

While making yourself self-appointed debate tactics referee.

Funny how you rag on people for not participating in a protest, when you haven't really even participated in this discussion, aside from ragging on people for not expressing themselves as you would like them to.

Your cryptic little quips don't add much...

And maybe by "cob(sic)", I meant... Oh, never mind.

[tx_dem41]

195. There hasn't been "one discussion"....

This is an open-forum Q&A thread, so there have been several little discussions.

I am only defending a single policeman who is one of us (a DUer) and came on this thread for SIX hours and answered all sorts of questions. I enjoyed following the thread today because of his openness and enthusiasm in being a DU member. When two posters (not you) then came on and started dumping on him and making stuff up about what he said, yeah...I got pretty upset and wanted to defend the guy. I don't see any harm in that. Remember, this is a single policemen, no where does he represent some monolithic "policeman". I think he had earned our respect, and I got sick of the intellectual dishonesty going on in the discussion.

As for the "sic", I am pretty strict about using quotes from other posts, including not correcting typos. Hence the "sic". I apologize if you saw it as some type of jab. It wasn't mean that way.

[SouthernDem2004]

196. Reread my posts...

I did not cheer on anyone. I understand both sides. The Police must be there. Law and order must also be maintained. I answered the questions I could about riot gear and tactics.

[TryingToWarnYou]

253. Nice...

Not only did you discount his information because it didnt fit what you want to believe (he was correct btw), but you insult him too?

The job of law enforcement is not to take sides. Its not to sit there and determine which group of people get police protection. They all get it. Get it?

Great Example time: Ku Klux Klan rally. The cops are there to protect you and the Klan even though we all know what the Klan is about. The Klan has a RIGHT to be bigoted assholes. Law enforcement has the obligation to protect those rights, even the rights of those you disagree with.

[devilgrrl]

97. "guy on the ground is being arrested I am sure for a reason"

Is being at the wrong place at the wrong time warrant for arrest? Or didn't they like the way he was dressed?

A reason? Peaceful protest is threatening? Sorry, I beg to differ, there was no reason for the behavior displayed by the police in that picture... none!!!!

Now, answer the question originally asked.

[SouthernDem2004]

106. You do not know why he is being arrested.

Aside from his arrest what are the Police doing wrong? Something wrong with standing? The protesters in the background that are not causing problems seem fine.

[devilgrrl]

113. And you don't know why he was arrested either!!!!

What your saying is that you can arrest anyone at anytime for whatever?

I love how you make it sound like people are never arrested for no reason what so ever. Don't tell me that some cops don't get off being able to just fuck with people because they can.

[SouthernDem2004]

114. Due to profanity and personal attacks I will no longer respond.

Best of luck.

[el_gato]

117. poor baby

[devilgrrl]

138. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

;-)

[tx_dem41]

150. Yes, I agree...

your posts have spoken volumes.

[devilgrrl]

151. What's your glitch?

Can you be a little more vague?

[tx_dem41]

153. If you like.

[UdoKier]

178. There were no personal attacks there.

And for someone dealing with "the dregs of society" you sure have a pollyanna attitude about profanity.

[tx_dem41]

181. Well lets look at what was said....

"What your saying is that you can arrest anyone at anytime for whatever?

I love how you make it sound like people are never arrested for no reason what so ever. Don't tell me that some cops don't get off being able to just fuck with people because they can."

Now, since the police poster said nothing of the kind, I would call it a personal (and dishonest) attack. As for the language, he stated his rules at the very beginning of the thread. By your participation in the thread, you knew the rules.

[UdoKier]

183. I don't use profanity in my posts.

At least not often.

But I don't get my panties in a wad when somebody does. There's such a thing as context, and it's often much more important than mere verbiage.

[tx_dem41]

185. Some people find profanity to be a departure from reason...

and a sign that the user really isn't going to participate any longer in an honest debate.

As for you using profanity, he was responding to another person's post. He has continued to participate in other subthreads on this thread.

[Sterling]

228. Cops are used to control, when he found out he could not control you

or the discussion he took is baton and went home. It was nice having a forum with a cop who could not beat you for disagreeing but I knew it would not last.

Now he can go back to not knowing jack shit and liking it.

[tx_dem41]

247. Well, he seems to be back answering questions....

Some people just don't really appreciate profanity. It tends not to add much to intelligent discussion. Just try to accept that or at least respect that.

[Sterling]

250. Sure whatever.

He's above that sort of thing. Police are above the rest of us, we are used to that kind of thing.

Bottom line is the rest of us post here everyday and manage to play by the rules that apply to us all. Like most police this guy thinks he has his own set of rules to go by, separate and above the rest of us.

Respect? I would respect him being able to hold his own even when he can't enforce his will on others.

[Taragui Junkie]

285. So are ALL cops assholes?

You must have had many run-ins with the cops to have this amount of hostility.

Or is there some other reason?

[I_equals_PRT]

350. well, pretty much, yes. if they weren't they'd get honest work. n/t

[Name removed]

356. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[I_equals_PRT]

357. I am neither trolling nor disrupting, and your tone is most pugnacious

listen, sunshine, you may not like my opinion but i believe the rules of this board prohibit you from making a personal attack on me, a stranger about whom you know nothing, just because you don't agree with my opinion. It so happens, for the record, I don't agree with your opinion either.

[TryingToWarnYou]

254. Way to go..

The guy wasnt here to be your whipping boy. He doesnt have to put up with profanity or insults here and specifically stated he wouldnt put up with it in his very first post in this thread. Ive read the entire thread and have seen no reason, none, why some folks should be treating this guy like shit. He has been honest and upfront while taking shit from people like you who pre-judged him from the get-go.

[tx_dem41]

149. Boy, you sure took advantage of that opening....

and made up a whole bunch of stuff that you claimed he said (which, btw, he didn't say). I'm impressed.

[devilgrrl]

152. What are talking about?

[el_gato]

156. just another stooge genuflecting for the police state

[tx_dem41]

158. If you like...

I like to think of myself as someone that wants to participate in an honest debate, not a mugging based on intellectual dishonesty. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

[el_gato]

262. people think all kinds of unrealistic things about themselves

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UdoKier]

100. More from the FTAA nightmare

http://www.benfrank.net/nuke/ftaa112003/Police_Brutality_in_Miami.html





Yes, look at this thugette.



God only knows what this brute might've done had the cops not roughed him up.




The nerve of this guy with the bandanna and glasses. He should have savored the pepper spray and tear gas like everyone else!




Sporty!



YOur friendly neighborhood police officers...

[el_gato]

120. oppression of the already oppressed, the very reason cops exist

thanks for the pics Udokier

[alexisfree]

142. Police cant be trusted. Remember that when you are a Juror on a trial.

[ArkDem]

65. I thought The Police broke up...

[meisje]

70. What percentage of police do you think break the law?

Specifically lying, stealing, and violating citizens rights while on the job. I'd say it is in the high 40 percentile. What do you think?

[SouthernDem2004]

96. Much lower then that in a sense...

First, What do you mean by lying? I will lie to a suspect to get whatever information I need. The only time I can not lie is on the stand. Look at undercover Cops, they live a lie.

Second, I certainly hope your wrong about that and I think you are. I know of no Cops that steal. We would narc each other out anyway. The Police are not like they were say 20 years ago. 20 Years ago I would have said 40% was way to low.

Third, I think a very low percentage violate rights. Thing is most people do not know their actual rights.


As for breaking the law, I would say about 90% break the law. I do not know a single Officer that does not speed.

[jayfish]

133. Ha Ha, Thats A Good One.

I know of a department were 100% of it's officers on the night-shift steal. Here is how it works:

Officer pulls over a car full of teenagers
Officer coerces said teens into allowing a vehicle search
Officer discovers alcohol
Officer confiscated said alcohol and lets the teens go on their merry way.
Officer(s) put all of the alcohol confiscated that night into a box.
Officers divvy up and take home the alcohol at the end of the night.

I also have to say that your naiveté and occasional, down-right, denial is disconcerting.

Jay

[SouthernDem2004]

139. Who denied anything?

I disagreed with the numbers. reread my post.


If this happens in your city then you need to call you State's BI or the FBI itself. You should not allow your Police force to be corrupt.

[jayfish]

154. The Department...

is not in my immediate area and other then being crooks, they seemed to be good guys. As far as the denial goes, It's not specific to this branch of the thread. It's an overall impression I have received from reading the thread as a whole. It's natural though so don't sweat it. Maybe you can learn as much from us as we hope to from you. Hell, you have my respect for even starting this thread. :crazy:

Jay

[SouthernDem2004]

169. If they are crooks they are not good guys...

[jayfish]

175. Ya See, Thats Part Of The Problem Right There.

To much black and white and not enough acknowledgment of gray. We have to learn to let-go of some things in this country. One of them is trying to prosecute everyone for everything. I rode with these guys as part of an internship and they were, overall, good guys. Another illegal thing they liked to do was "test" their cruisers before each shift by taking them up to top speed down a long and winding road. It could be pretty hair-raising in those old 100K+ mile Fury's

Jay

[devilgrrl]

72. Have you ever given a "Screen Test"?

I've heard a "screen test" is when a cop speeds up his cruiser with a perp in the back seat. He makes a sudden stop sending the perp face first into the screen that separates the front and back seats.

Have you heard of this? Is it true and have you ever given on yourself?

Just curious.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

73. why do the police frequently speed all over

and break traffic laws left and right with no indication of emergency? I have seen police turn on their lights to get through an intersection just to turn them off on the other side...how can the police expect people to respect them when they have no respect for the laws they are there to enforce???? /rant

theProdigal

[Bethany Rockafella]

81. Ditto.

I have seen it done all the time by cops.

[TX-RAT]

105. They could be responding code 1

Code 2 would be with lights on.
Code 3 would be lights and sirens.
It's very common, when responding to certain calls, to hit your lights to get through a intersection.

[Sparkle]

167. uh, I call bullshit on that.

They only do that so they won't be in traffic like everyone else.

[TryingToWarnYou]

255. And you know this, how?

As an officer myself, I know it to be a fact that you dont go to every call with your lights on like on TV. Some calls, you just need to get there "soon". Others, you need to get there "now".

[Solon]

204. That sounds dangerous to me...

My friends sister was killed by a cop speeding in his car with no lights on. He was recently aquitted of involuntary manslaughter, though the only consolation that have is that he can never be a cop again.

[SouthernDem2004]

118. TX-Rat is correct...

The problem with running code sometimes is the reaction of other drivers. People often freak out when they see Police coming code and do some strange things. It is often safer and quicker only to use lights to clear an intersection.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

132. while I can certainly appreciate that

I see it happening far too frequently and in situations where that just doesn't hold water. I know there are mostly good cops out there...but sometimes they nearly blow you off the road and then you see them at the top of the next exit ramp getting a coffee. It is extremely frustrating and in this case one or two bad apples does spoil the bunch where respect is concerned. Do watch commanders give a rip if you call to report this sort of stuff???

theProdigal

[SouthernDem2004]

140. You are certainly right that some

speed just to speed. Yes, calling does make a difference. Make sure you get the car number before you call.

[sarcasmo]

79. Are kickbacks part of the code of silence?

[SouthernDem2004]

119. Pointless Personal attack. I will no longer respond to your posts.

[el_gato]

129. How is that personal, is your entire identity wrapped up in being a cop

from what I have seen cops live in a pretty insular world.
Is that why they seem to hate citizens and have a disgust for liberty?
do you all have an enemy complex?
Why do police departments use names like Charlie Sector in reference to neighborhoods?

[UdoKier]

180. If you want to ignore someone, ignore them.

What's with the haughty pronouncements. Nobody is impressed.

[SouthernDem2004]

200. It is not meant to be haughty. The reason...

is that people start saying I do not answer because the other person is correct or I have no answer. I merely make it clear why I do not respond.

[Sterling]

251. It's still a "cop" out.

You still look like you can't defend your opinion. You also look like you can't handle it when you have to let others express their feelings without having the power to just turn them of at your pleasure.

[Serial Mom]

86. How tall are you?

[Serial Mom]

98. no response to a simple question?

Looks like asking height is either a personal attack or an insult? it certainly can't be profane!

FYI: I ignore posts containing insults, personal attacks and profanity.

[Az]

111. There are a lot of questions

Some more relevant than others. You could cut the guy some slack. :D

[SouthernDem2004]

121. Yep, some of my responses...

take a while to type or think about. Not to mention I am getting tired and my spelling and typing are getting worse.


Oh, 5-10

[DownNotOut]

87. What city, state do you work in?

[SouthernDem2004]

123. Sorry but...

I will not give that out. There are to many anti-police hostile types on here they might try to harass me.

[Sterling]

267. That's funny, because you are the cop not us.

It seems as though we are afraid of each other for the same reasons? Odd considering you can actually harass us under the color of authority and if we "harassed" you I am sure you could take care of it by having us arrested.

Your logic is a little paranoid don't you think?

[BiggJawn]

92. Why the storm trooper get-up on patrol?

You answered a question about riot "gear", but I want to know why the black nylon "tactical gear", sap gloves, shaved heads, jump boots, etc. for every-day patrol wear?

Is it to intimidate us "perps"?

[SouthernDem2004]

135. Answers:

I know of no one that wears sap gloves.

All of our gear is black. I use leather and not nylon. I take it you are referring to our equipment belts. Well, we have alot of junk to carry: Radio, Gun, Asp, Handcuffs, OC Spary, Flashlight, Extra magzines, audio recorders etc. We do not wear pads or riot gear.

Shaved heads: Safety issue for most of us. People can not grab hair you do not have. There is no hair to get into your eyes when it rains or its windy. Also, alot of us are ex-military and we are just used to it. Some are just plain going bald. :)

Jump boots: I personally do not like jump boots and go with the standard military type issue boot. Why? Steele tows offer protection and the boot gives more support. A boot does not foul or come off. The laces do not get in the way. Alot more reasons...

[petronius]

303. What's an Asp?

Seriously - I'm not making fun of a typo if that's what it was...

[achtung_circus]

308. An ASP

is an extendable & collapsable baton. They telescope and run about 21-24" long when extended, about 8 when retracted.

[SouthernDem2004]

312. Reply:

Correct, They also come in 36" length. ASP is actually a brand name and I believe the first to produce collapsable batons.
Example: http://www.galls.com/style.html?style=BA073&assort=general_catalog

Every Officer I know carries one.

[Phentex]

107. Should I call you (the police) or the fire department when....

people at my children's school park on yellow curbs, leaving barely enough room for a small car to pass through the only lane in and out of the school? Forget a fire truck, a large SUV cannot get through. I drive a medium sized car and I thought I was going to hit someone.

I've had it!

PS Ample parking is available in a regular parking lot plus a long side street. These people are L-A-Z-Y!

[SouthernDem2004]

141. Call the Police...

Fire can not write citations. Also by contacting the Police it will make sure the School Resource Officers (if you have them) aware of the problem.

Do not be afraid to call the Police. We work for you. Anyway, Day-Shift Officers do not do much anyway. Make 'em work.... :)

[Phentex]

143. Thank you! And....

thanks for this thread. It is most helpful! :hi:

[SheepyMcSheepster]

108. have you ever broke the law?

[SouthernDem2004]

144. Sure

I break traffic laws. Aside from that I fairly boring. Wait, I download Mp3s using Kaaza. That is about it.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

160. so it is ok to break the law as long as you don't get caught?

a little birdy typed this to me this one time "Their are consequences in life. You break the laws you go to jail."

how do you explain the fact that you feel it is ok to break some laws?

[SouthernDem2004]

201. I never said it was ok...

I gave you a honest answer. I never said I was better then anyone else or that I was perfect.

When I get caught speeding I do not flash a badge. I take the ticket and pay it. As for downloading MP3 I still question the illegality of downloading. I do not allow others to upload off of my computer. I am still waiting for the music industry to try and prosecute someone just for downloading music. I do not see what they will base the suit on when I can easily record music off of the radio. I think the industry fears trying that one out before the Supreme Court.

[alexisfree]

112. Police being here to protect and serve is like Bush telling us WMD in Iraq

I have read your post and some of your responses have been less than credible. The police are not here to protect and serve they are here to keep an illusion going. They lie, cheat, steal, and plant evidence.

Being a minority you know how the police operates and you see the discrimination, racism. Minorities see it in their neighborhoods. We have also witness it in real life. Here is a scenario that forever changed the ways we think about police.

Image going out and celebrating. Imagine driving back and your friend who is white is driving and he never drinks. Imagine him getting pulled over and being asked why he is driving and why we were in the backseat. Now image the cop calling for assistance because they think you are transporting drugs? Drugs? Now image that police officer calling for a k-9 and backup. Image 6 cops surrounding the car checking under the hood, checking in the trunk having their dogs smell all over. Image them after all that crap not even saying have a nice night . Imagine if those cops would have planted something...Our words against them right?? NEVER will we trust another cop again.

[SouthernDem2004]

146. I am sorry you feel that way...

You say cops lie, cheat, steal and plant evidence. I guess not all do sense they did not plant it in your vehicle...

[alexisfree]

155. Yeah to bad. I think they backed up when they saw the survelience cameras

in our car. You should have saw their expressions when we pointed out to them that live feeds were being sent wirelessly to a remote server via our data card.

Heads up everyone a computer in your car and cameras, with a wireless card will run you about $1500. These feeds are important in court.

[SouthernDem2004]

115. Two views...

The Police say the protesters started throwing things first and the protesters say the Police charged them for no reason. I was unfamiliar with this incident and checking some protestor websites they even say protestors threw things and tried to get over walls.


Regardless, I the Police acted inapproriately them actions against the Police should be taken. I can not defend or really comment on an event I really do not know much about. I was not there.

[annabanana]

125. I'm glad you're here SouthernDem2004..

I hope you have a good tough hide. This country needs as many Democratic Officers as it can get. (Also Generals, like Clark)

[Kaylee]

134. As the wife of a cop...

who is also on midnights this week - shouldn't you be asleep right now? (If this is my husband - GO TO BED!) ;-)

I have been lurking on DU for over a year and post very rarely as you can see from my post count, but I wanted to thank you for starting this tread.

I did my fair share of (sometimes deserved) cop-bashing in my day, until I saw the other side of it and how thankless and hard his job can be.

Just wanted to let you know, you are appreciated.

[TX-RAT]

145. Your husband is a lucky man

Strong long term marriages are a rarity in law enforcement. I was one of the lucky ones, well over 30 yrs now. I must admit when i retired, my wife gave a big sigh of relief.

[SouthernDem2004]

147. Thank you and yes my wife would also complain if she knew I was awake. :)

[rman]

136. what do you think of privatized police force?

(where the police has an economic incentive to confiscate property)

[SouthernDem2004]

148. That would be wrong on so many levels.

[funkybutt]

159. Should a cops word in court be worth more than that of a regular citizen

is this a misconception? I've always felt that a judge and a jury usually give the cop's impressions of what happened more weithg than that of your average joe.

Also, what do you think about residency requirements?

[SouthernDem2004]

164. Answers:

A Cops word in court should not be worth more but the truth is that it usually is...

Requirements for what?

[funkybutt]

166. Here in New Orleans

Police are required to reside in the city limits. It's a residency requirement. Quite controversial down here since real estate prices are going through the roof. But I actually like the idea of having the police livign in the communities they are protecting.

[SouthernDem2004]

170. Actually...

I was going to join N.O. PD until I found out about the residency requirement.

Most cities have gotten away from residency requirements. I live in the city I work but it is not required. I do have to live in the state though.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

161. Why do police oppose putting Identification on riot gear?

I understand and agree that it is the police's job to quell riots, and that a small number of provocateurs can do enormous amounts of harm to citizens and property under the cover of a larger demonstration.

However, it also seems to me that a certain percentage of Police are also provocateurs, who use demonstrations to attack and intimidate people with whom they have political disagreements.

One method of weeding out both is careful identification. Police are beginning to use video cameras to catch people committing crimes under the cover of a political protest. However, the vast majority of police are adamantly opposed to putting verifiable external identification (such as a large number) on the outside of their riot gear. The obvious (and only) reason for doing so is to protect the identities of the worst thugs in the force from later legal (or police review) actions.

Why are good cops - which I believe are the majority on the force - in favor of protecting their bad, or outright criminal, coworkers? It makes no sense to me. These people bring disrepute on the entire force and, because their actions tend to incite violence rather than quell it, impair officer safety.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[SouthernDem2004]

168. I do not know anyone opposed to id...

I have never actually heard anyone mention putting some type of id on gear but it sounds like a good idea to me.

ID sounds like a good idea. Before major protests Police usually meet up with the protest organizers prior to the event. They should bring it up to the Police and media. Protesters should really push this issue.

Now that you mention it, my gear does not have any identifying markings on it.

[funkybutt]

162. Check out how we're being advised to deal with the police at this protest

Jazz Funeral for Democracy in New Orleans. I really liked the way the organizers prepared us participants for dealing with the police.

http://www.jazzfuneralfordemocracy.com/latest.asp (scroll down to Safety)

[SouthernDem2004]

172. Planning such as that helps both parties.

[Walt Starr]

165. What is your stance on the Iraq War? n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

173. We should have never gone but now we are there we are stuck until

we can prop up some sort of government. I am also in the National Guard and will probably have to go some time late this year or early next year if things do not calm down.

[SouthernDem2004]

174. Time for bed, I will chk this thread later and start a new one in a

day or two. It has been interesting. :)

[commander bunnypants]

186. Welcome- I am a mind policeman

ie. mental health social worker with a crisis unit

CB

[Guns Aximbo]

199. Police

I find the police around my home County of Kane in Illinois to be fascists. Every one of them has a skin head haircut and every single one of them act like fascist son of a buggers.

They are jerks. The Sherrif is on the take but he's a HUGE Repugnant. He's been able to skip around every indictment that has come his way.

Having said that, My Uncle, Whom I respect greatly is an ex Chicago cop and the former captain in the neigboring town of Saint Charles was one heck of a great guy. He was fired by the republican mayor (who is currupt as hell).

In general, I find the police good for only one thing - writing speeding and parking tickets.
...

[SouthernDem2004]

203. No idea about..

your county and I could not find any information about any indictments. Contact your state's BI or the FBI if you have first hand knowledge of corruption.

I certainly will not attempt to change your anti-police views but what is the problem with our haircuts????

[DukeBlue]

207. Brother was an MP

They had to keep short hair because in a fight long hair can be grabbed and used against you. He worked as a patrolman for a while and was required to keep a short cut for that reason.

Knowledge leads to understanding.

[Guns Aximbo]

208. indictments

He's never actually been indicted. He's managed to have all corruption charges beat before they get that far.

as far as haircuts are concerned. skin heads are fascists. Their haircuts look too similar. Whats the point of it all? To look like scinheads or to look like Nazis?

[democracyindanger]

210. Michael Jordan is either a Nazi or a Fascist?

Wow. You learn something new everyday.

[Guns Aximbo]

214. Last time I looked

he wasn't walking around with jack boots on, carring a club or harrasing people.

I guess you do learn new things every day... how to taser children for example.

[SouthernDem2004]

212. I believe the post above as well as

one of my earlier posts gives the reasons. For some reason some people are scared of certain haircuts, go figure..


The reasons:

1) So someone can not grab your hair during a fight. Can not grab what is not there.
2) So hair does not get in the way during bad weather such as rain or wind.
3) Some people are just going bald. :)
4) Alot of Police are ex-military and just got used to the haircut. Heck, I can dry my hair in 10 seconds and it never gets messed up.

Most of the reasons are safety related.

[Kahutec]

231. Chase & Face them and go home safetly!

Thanks for the grilling and stay safe! The major problems I face in society is the handling of insane persons and treating them as GP! We need to help the weakest link in our society to strengthen the chain! This jail them and bail them just throws them back for round 2345678. We need to take care of our mentally disturbed. Jail is not the answer!

[SouthernDem2004]

232. I could not agree more.

[achtung_circus]

236. Similarly,

We are required to wear ties at times. Those ties must be clip-ons. If someone grabs my tie, if comes off rather than being used as a handle.

[HEyHEY]

218. You're gonna ignore profanity?

I may as well forget about asking anything then.

[SouthernDem2004]

224. Lol, you avoided it in that post. :)

[superconnected]

220. I worked at a police department in my early 20's

They were normal people. Each with different personalities like everyone else.

The generalizations here have been offensive to me since I landed on the board. There are some bad police, and ministers, and teachers, and computer professionals(they shoot up offices sometimes) and soldiers, etc. But if you hang out here, you'd be led to believe they are ALL bad, in every catagory where something has happened bad before.

Maybe it's not so much the place, but a few posters, who can't seem to tell a few, from all.

[Lisabtrucking]

287. I know of police corruption, happen in the 80's. It was the 8th district

in Chicago Ill. They were a bunch of corrupt cops. I grew up not far from it.
Chicago had some corrupt judges also. They take bribes, and if you didn't have the money to pay off you got clobbered.

One judge that comes to mind in malloney, I believe he was sent to prison for taking bribes, but there are a lot that got away with it.

[SouthernDem2004]

296. True...

Police forces started out corrupt and it has been a long hard road trying to clean them up. There are always going to be problems but things have improved greatly over the last 10 to 20 years.

[Downtown Hound]

223. How do you feel about some of the so-called

tough on crime measures that have been put into practice in recent years such as chain gangs? Take Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona for example, the man who makes his inmates wear black and white striped uniforms and puts men, women, and juveniles to work on chain gangs. What's your take on that? Do you you think it's effective in stopping crime or is it just a publicity stunt on his part to pander to the public?

[SouthernDem2004]

226. I am all for it.

I do not believe you can put juveniles on chain gangs though. I do not believe you can make them work at all but I am not positive about that.

I think it is effective in some instances. I arrest alot of people who really do not care about going to jail. It has TV, Air conditioning and 3 meals a day. Most of the day they just hang out. Put them to work and it would be a different story all together.

[Sterling]

230. I arrest alot of people who really do not care about going to jail

"I think it is effective in some instances. I arrest alot of people who really do not care about going to jail. It has TV, Air conditioning and 3 meals a day. Most of the day they just hang out."


I think that says a lot about what their life is like on the outside. Nice to see a cop who cares.

[gorbal]

225. Rallies

I noticed that when I go to ANSWER rallies both police and protesters do security and wear similar vests and there is very little violence, However when I go to other rallies the police usually just line up like a wall and the whole environment is much more confrontational and frightening. I have only been to two Answer rallies (the last one in DC), but I am curious what you think about these different tactics and what works better to keep violence down.

I'm also curious if you think rallies and protests have lost their political effectiveness.

:)

[SouthernDem2004]

229. It depends on...

the type of protest as to the tactics. You know that protesters at a WTO meeting are going to do something so you act accordingly. The tactics are based on the possibility of problems. In cases like lets say the Million Man March there was no need for hardline tactics. We knew in advance it was a very peaceful group that just wanted to march and protest. We have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Each tactic has its place.


Have rallies and protest lost their effectiveness? My personal opinion is yes. Problems like in the state of Washington during the WTO meeting give protesters a bad name. People tend to ignore or dismiss people that are violent or disruptive. Unfortunately people tend to generalize when it comes to protesters just like some do here when it comes to Police.

[UdoKier]

238. Guilty until proven Innocent?

You know that protesters at a WTO meeting are going to do something so you act accordingly.

In SouthernDem2004's world, yes.



You do NOT know that. And you do NOT bring in 5000 shock troops in ALL in riot gear for a protest contingent of maybe 3~5000 - almost all old union guys and schoolteachers, etc. Your mischaracterization of the people who are trying to put a stop to the looting off our country is SO offensive.

Even the ones you've maligned as violent have done little more than set a dumpster on fire or pull on a chain-link fence.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe THE AMERICAN PUBLIC should be able to have a say at the locked-up, super-high-security FTAA talks? Nah, that might make us look like a DEMOCRACY or something. The fences SHOULD be torn down.

[SouthernDem2004]

240. Notice I mentioned...

the WTO. As I posted earlier their is documentary made by one of the protest groups running on an internet TV stream. It is on one of the Liberal streams you can find in Winamps listings. Watch it and then tell me the Police should not have reacted as they did.


Shock troops? Where? I see Patrol Officers, Traffic Officers and every other body they could put in a uniform doing something they do not want to do.

Mischaracterization? Reread my posts.

Simply put, you can not go where ever you want or do whatever you want.

[bling bling]

239. Great thread. Thanks.

My brother and his wife are also cops and also democrats. I love talking to them about their jobs because it's always such an interesting discussion.

Just so you know -- the icons to the right of people's user name's contain one where a person looks like he/she is sleeping. This is the "ignore" icon, and it allows you to ignore all posts by that particular poster.

[SouthernDem2004]

245. Thanks that icon worked great.

[bling bling]

248. I'm glad to hear that.

I made some new additions to my list too :-) . I enjoyed reading the thread more that way too. Best to you.

[meisje]

242. Would you lie if your job were on the line?

Let's say you unintentionally or even intentionally caused harm to a citizen physically or mentally. You know that the only way to save your job is to lie about the situation. You are sitting across from the internal affairs investigator, what do you do?

[SouthernDem2004]

244. lose my job...

I am not a religious person. I live my life based on strong personal values. Your core beliefs are the only thing in this world you truely have control of. I will not compromise my beliefs for a job.

[Lostnote03]

249. Hey Copper!!!!.....lol

[SouthernDem2004]

261. We actually do not consider Copper or Pig to be insults.

When several officers tackle a suspect and wrestle with him to get his hands behind his back we call it a "pig pile." :)

[Sterling]

268. "pig pile." well that makes sense. Ever read "Animal Farm"

You should read it before you name your little techniques trying to be cute and all. Copper seems reasonable but pig is meant as an insult. It may be over most cops heads as to why but it is.

[Sterling]

252. Here.

This is the thread you really need to be on:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2969679

People might use a pooty mouth word so it might be very scary for you but it may do you well to understand where the people who don't trust police are coming from.

[Book Lover]

257. I get arrested. What do I do?

Hypothetical situation: Say I'm doing, oh, 15 over the speed limit and I get pulled over. The cop runs my license and sees that, for whatever reason, I have a warrant out for my arrest. She or he comes back up to my car and says, well, gee, whatever the cop would say. I get out of the car (I assume I'm told to do this) and accept being cuffed. What's your best advice for what I should do next, other than obeying everything I'm told to do?

[SouthernDem2004]

259. There is basicly nothing you can do at that point...

They will take you to jail to book you in. You will do some quick paper work and then they will give you the chance to make some calls and bond out. You did the most important thing by being polite and following orders.

The best way to handle a typical arrest:

Lets say you are standing outside a club and a Cop comes up to you and tells you to place your hands behind your back because your under arrest. The best thing to do even if you have no idea what is going on is to comply. If you fail to do what you are told it will be considered resisting. The best thing to do is just do what your told and not say anything at that point. Do not ask him why you are being arrested. No, he does not have to tell you why at that point. No, you do not have the right to make a phone call at that point. No, you do not have the right to talk to an attorney at that point. Once you are in the Police car and on the way to jail is the time to start asking a few questions in a polite manner. (No Sir and Yes Sir are not required, just be polite.) Do not argue even if you are innocent of the charges. The Officer obviously already thinks you are guilty and arguing is not going to change his mind. Once you get to the jail they are going to take your property and fill out a little booking paper work containing your personal information. You may also be finger printed and photographed. You still are not going to be able to make a phone call or talk to an attorney until after all of this is done. Be polite throughout. Ticking off the Police is not going to do anything but make your life harder. If you have cooperated and the charge is not serious they may allow you to sign out on your own recognizance. If not, you will have to post bond. If you can not post bond you will stay in jail until you see a judge.

Court:

Courts vary slightly from state to state. Your first appearance will be a plea date. Always pled not guilty.

They will assign you a second court day for the actual trial. At this date they will give you a chance to change your plea, try and make a deal with the prosecutor or go to trial. Trial is really the last thing you want unless you are truely innocent. The Officer that arrested you will be in court. Go speak to him. If you were acting like an idiot apologize. Ask the Officer if there is anyway you can avoid getting a conviction on your record. If it is your first arrest let him know. Alot of times an officer will drop the charges, drop some of the charges or pass it to the file. We have all made mistakes in our lives and we really do not care for the most part if you get convicted or not. IF you were a complete jerk to the officer then DO NOT speak to him. If you were completely rude go talk to the Prosecutor. Tell the Prosecutor basicly what you would have told the officer. At the very least the Prosecutor will normally drop some of the charges or ask the court to lower the fines if you change your plea to guilty. Good luck if you go to trial...


The key thing is not to have an attitude. You may hate the police with a passion but it is never a good idea to vocalize that opinion any where near a Police Officer. Wait until you get home to curse us.

Pardon if there are typos. It has been a long night.

[Book Lover]

263. Thanks for your frank reply

Or is your name not Frank? ;-)

[OutsourceBush]

286. "if you change your plea to guilty"

You should not recommend people plead guilty to something they did not do.

They have to have a lawyer work this out. If they are not guilty they can plead no contest or innocent and work a deal so they do get anything on their record long term.

If they plead guilty it may stay with them in their files and make it hard to get a job.

They should never plead to anything that can not be expunged fully if they are innocent.

They should also file a complaint against the police officer (via a lawyer, never go to a police station) and put it on their permanent record if the police officer falsified the report, as they often do these days.

[SouthernDem2004]

300. reply:

1) Please reread my post. I never told anyone to plead guilty if they were innocent, I said the exact opposite.

2)You can not plead innocent and work a deal.

3) The whole "falsiefied report which they often do" clear shows your bias.

You are providing false information and clearly making misstatements about my post. This thread is an attempt for people to ask a Police Officer questions and get frank and honest answers. Post misinformation as a response is doing a disservice to everyone.

[OutsourceBush]

305. shows your bias

not bias, first hand experience so cut the crap

[SouthernDem2004]

313. Your reply...

was full of inaccuracies and false statements. Do you think anyone is going to believe anything else you say? I will reply no further.

[Name removed]

346. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sweetheart]

258. Do you ever let people go by your own judgement?

Say you pull over a driver who's registration just expired, and they
are obviously not having a good day, and confess to you that they ARE
going to register, but that their paycheque has not cleared yet and they
are out the money at the moment.... so charging them will only cost them
more money and add insult to injury.

Do you allow your personal compassion to adjust your interpretation of
whether someone is a malicious offender who must be charged?

Every time a police person gives a ticket to a driver, it adds to their
insurance rates and ultimately hits them in the wallet/pocketbook. Does
your compassion for poor people have you giving some folks a break
in this regard? I can't help but see the law as a weapon against the
poor, as it is avoided by the rich... and were i such an officer,
i would probably apply the law much more selectively to those who did
not have the means, and did not need more evil in thier lives.

EVil, not in the sense of the peace officer, but the law itself.

[SouthernDem2004]

260. Answers:

I would write the person in your exampla a ticket known as a work order. This ticket would give them 30 to 60 days to get the vehicle registered. If it is done prior to the court date to the ticket all they have to do is bring the ticket and the registration to the Police Department and show them to an Officer. The Officer will check and make sure everything is fixed and then sign off on the ticket. The ticket then goes away. No fine or court date.

I have almost complete discreation when it comes to charging people with crimes. I personally write far more warning tickets then I do regular tickets. The only time I would ever use income to consider writing a ticket would be in a case like your example. Things like inspection stickers, expired tags and registrations can be expensive and I have no problem giving some people more time. That being said, I do not care about a person's income at any other time. The purpose of traffic laws is to ensure that people drive safely. The best deterent is monetary fines. Ones financial status does not exempt them from the law. Remember, the intent of our legal system is to be fair. It may not be at all times but we should try to be as fair as possible.

[sweetheart]

266. Thats cool

Its good to hear decency represented. I'm cop jumpy after having guns
pulled on me... its a hard thing to get rid of, as the gun barrel
makes the good experiences melt in to forgetfulness.

Thanks.

[King Coal]

269. What's the best way to beat a speeding ticket? Seriously.

[SouthernDem2004]

273. Hmmm

Your best chance is to request a jury trial if that is an option in your state. Jury's can be very sympathitic to minor infractions. Be polite when questioning the officer and ask him the questions I will put in the following paragraph. Also, with a jury you can ask the officer if any other vehicles around and if it is possible his radar clocked them and not you. It will give the jury seeds of doubt.

My state does not allow for jury trials for traffic infractions. If the Officer says you were speeding and you say you were not and thats the only testimony, you will lose. Just a fact of life. One thing you can try is ask the Officer when he last calibrated his radar. He must calibrate it before each use. (State v. Tomanelli) Calibration involves using two tuning forks to verify the radar is working correctly. It is really not a calibration but that is what they call it. If it was not calibrated the ticket should be tossed. If he did not use a radar and clocked your speeding using just a speedometer ask if the speedometer is certified and how far he paced you. Police vehicles speedometers after calibrated to be accurate by the manufacturer. The speedometer in a civilian vehicle has a margin of error of +/- 3 mph. He also should have paced you for one mile. (Do not know the case law on that one off hand.) He must be using a certified speedometer and have followed you for one mile.

Aside from the points I put in the second paragraph there is really little you can do to fight it. Do not be shocked if you get convicted regardless of the answers of the Police. You would win on appeal but that would be expensive.

Hope that helps some. Truth is it is just better to accept the ticket if you are guilty.

[samtob]

271. Great thread SouthernDem

Thank you for it.

I have several good Friends that are cops. Knowing what they go through on a daily basis gave me a different perspective.

One thing I think some people fail to realize is that cops are just people doing their job. Regardless of the reason they joined the force, they are still just regular people. People occasionally make mistakes bad decisions, but it seems when that person is a cop, they are held to a higher standard that us "regular" folks.

Certainly there are power trip individuals on the force that somehow slipped by the evaluations before being hired, but that is not very common these days.

Alright, enough of my rambling, here is my question.

Do you believe your outlook on people / society has been tainted by your experiences as a cop? Or have you harbored your reactions thus altering your personality.


Let me explain why I ask. One of my cop friends has only been on the force for 7 years, I knew him long before this. After his first year on the job, his personality had changed. When I questioned him on this, his response was that the job had changed him. Some of the things he had seen "changed" him. He is still a great guy, just not the joker he used to be.

[SouthernDem2004]

275. In a sense...

being a Cop has changed certain outlooks. I used to believe that the reason there were so many criminals was that the U.S. had gotten away from rehabilitation and gone to warehousing. I now that rehabilitation just does not work on alot of people. There are just people that will do whatever they can get away with and the only thing that stops them is the fear of being caught. There are alot of people that need to be locked up for the rest of their lives because all they are going to do on the outside is prey on society. I guess you could say I have less faith in my fellow man.

I do not think the tragedies I have seen have effected me that much. Watching a child bleed to death or watching a person die an agonizing death can take its toll but you learn to let things go. Unfortunately alot of Officers can not do the same. That is why we have such a high suicide rate and alcoholism.

[Ariana Celeste]

272. I have a fairly simple question.

About 5 years ago, a girl in my apt. complex who was mad at me for whatever petty reason called the police and told them I was harboring a runaway. A short while later, they cruised into the complex, and came knocking on my door. They wanted to search my apt. for said runaway, and didn't have a warrant or anything like that. So I let them in, being 14 and scared and not knowing what to do. (And for clarification, I wasn't harboring any runaways, this was purely a call to the police just to get back at me, I believe it had something to do with this guy she had a crush on kissing me :-))

Was it legal for them to come into my apt. and search through everything, with my mother being away at work and with no warrant or anything? And also, if a cop ever came knocking on my door, let's say for an example, if I am playing music too loud and my neighbor were to complain, would I be obligated to let them in or could I just step outside my door and close it behind me?



Thank you very much for starting this thread, I've enjoyed reading it. As scared as I was of police when I was a little younger, I've kind of grown out of it. My very first donation was to the Police Protective Fund- goes to families whose parents were killed on duty, and they gave me stickers for it too. :7
And thank you for your service! Most of us really DO appreciate you guys!

:toast:

[SouthernDem2004]

276. Answers:

In the incident of the runaway they can come into your home regardless if you want them to or not. If we believe someone might be in danger such as a juvenile runaway we can and will come in to check. Now they should only look in places where a person could hide.

Normally like in the instance of a noise complaint you do not have to let them in. The majority of the time you do not have to let them in. Aside from instances I mentioned in the first paragraph there are certain other times we will insist. If we want to get a search warrant for the place we will enter and remove all the occupants while we wait for the judge to sign the warrant. If someone we are chasing runs in we will follow. If we get a 911 hang-up or a report of a possible domestic we will enter.

If you do not want them inside then do not invite them in. If they ask to come in just say no. If they insist then you have no choice but to let them in.

[Ariana Celeste]

283. Thank you very much :)

:7

[Joanne98]

274. Mandatory sentencing SUCKS.

[SouthernDem2004]

277. Yes it does, it was a knee jerk reaction to public outrage.

[Sgent]

288. Hello

And thanks for your honesty, hard work, and helpfulness.

I wanted to point out on the speeding ticket issue, there are a couple other tactics I have seen work depending on the jurisdiction.

1) Ask the officer or DA to change the ticket to a moving violation which is not reported on your report. I drive in states without points on a license, but where the ticket can massively raise insurance costs -- and know people that have had success with this tactic.

2) This will *really* upset the police department, and won't work in many jurisdictions. Ask for a continuance if the police officer is present at court. If she is not present, ask for a dismissal since there is no one to testify against you. Repeat as long as possible until the police officer doesn't show, or the judge gets tired of it.

[SouthernDem2004]

297. Replies:

1) No idea about that one. Could not hurt to ask.

2) I have never seen a continuance granted for a traffic violation. You have to give a reason to get a continuance and I am afraid it just will not work for a traffic violation.

[neebob]

292. What about those invisible cop speed limits?

I know they must exist, because I hardly ever see a police vehicle NOT exceeding any visible speed limit over 25 mph. The higher the posted limit, the more the cops exceed it. Do I need special glasses to see the signs, or is the ability to see them one of the requirements for being a cop? Or do they teach you the cop speed limits at the academy and you have to memorize them? Is there a test?

[noiretextatique]

293. racial profiling

how often does it happen?
i ask because it's happened to just about every person of color i know, including me...several times. from the trivial to the tragic, it still seems to be a problem in this country.

i grew up in los angeles and now live in oakland, and the latest incident was here a couple of years ago. i went to court, but the cowards didn't show up, so the case was dismissed.
having grown up in a racially segregated community in the 60's and 70's, i grew up viewing the police as an occupying force, per the nationalist thinking of the time. back then, it really was just a bunch of white guys, none of whom lived in the area, many of whom were overtly hostile. things have changed considerably since that time, and of course, i have changed also.

funny...that advice you gave here about not reaching for anything was something i learned when i was a child, as did all the kids i grew up with. i have always had mixed feelings about the police, in general, because a friend of mine, ronnnie settles, died a most heinous death while in the custody of the signal hill police department. and, there were others, all the names from my childhood i can never forget, like eula mae love.

it's a lot to reconcile, but i know times have changed, and so have i. i hzve had good and bad experiences with the police, and i know there are good and bad people who wear the uniform. like everyone else, there days i judge on an individual basis. i think police have a tough and thankless job to do, and i support those who do it and still manage to maintain their humanity. i know it must be difficult to see the worst in humanity and not become corrupted.

peace...and stay safe out there.

[OutsourceBush]

294. You might find out more at PoliceAbuse.org

Rather than reading this drivel. See what most cops do to people when they think no one is watching.

http://www.policeabuse.org

[noiretextatique]

295. thanks...great site

i started collecting profiling stories after my last incident...like the aclu is doing. i want to hear about it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. i know what is really going on too.

[SouthernDem2004]

298. How?

How exactly is this drivel? People ask questions I give them a honest response. Sure there is corruption in Police Forces, Police are humans. You kind of lose credibility then you say "what most cops do."

[OutsourceBush]

304. "Police are humans"

Me and a lot of other people are tired of that horse sh$t excuse for turning a blind eye to your fellow law breakers, which makes you all law breakers in the process.

Now tell me you have never turned a blind eye to another cop breaking the law.

Ahh, don't bother...I know the answer. No need to purger yourself for free on the Internet while you can do it for pay every day as a cop.

[SouthernDem2004]

299. Answer:

There are good and bad police just like there are good and bad doctors. I think it would be safe to say that in the 60's and 70's racism and corruption was prevalent in most Law Enforcement agencies. There are still racist but they keep quiet so no one really knows in most instances. Departments attitudes have changed. I am not so sure about some small town forces though. Heck, any black man that was convicted prior to oh say 1985 should probably get a retrial.

How often does it happen? I really can not answer that. I can say that in my department it does not occur. The reason is that we do not have any all white areas. We do however have areas that are predominantly black. God help you if you are white and driving around them at 2:00 am. I really have no idea about how often it happens in other areas but I am sure it is still a problem in a sense.

[OutsourceBush]

348. "God help you if you are white and driving around them at 2:00 am"

Unfortunately that is the response of oppressed people regardless of race. What do you do to change minority opinion of police? Kick their ass at 2am too?

When the system attacks blacks every time they turn around, we reap the results of that systemic attack on them. I doubt you would want to run around Iraq with an American flag on your back either.

Maybe you should try to prove to the minority community that you are not just another racist white cop. Maybe you and your department should try to improve race relations so that other whites can drive through those areas without getting back what you and other cops give them at 2am when no one is watching.

[Buddyblazon]

301. I have a question for you SouthernDem....

In the late '90's...I was driving from LA to my home in Denver. I left LA at midnight. Drove all night. As the sun was coming up, I stopped at a rest stop in Utah and took a nap for a couple of hours.

I awoke...and drove for about 45mins to an hour. I was stopped in a small town. The young officer (late 20's my guess) went through the whole "license and registration", ask me where I'm coming from...where I'm going. He explains to me...get this...that I'm doing 67 in a 65. 2 MILES OVER! He goes back to the patrol car to run my info. He comes back to my car after ten minutes, looks at me, and says, "Why are your eyes so red?"

"Well sir...I left LA at midnight...stopped about 50 miles back...napped for a couple of hours and have only been awake for an hour. I left my contacts in...and I'm sure my eyes look like two fried eggs at this point."

His response:
"What would you say if I told you I wanted to search your car?"

Now...I grew up with a friend whose father was a cop for decades. We had many talks and I know how to act when being stopped. I.E. Hands on the wheel, no sudden movements, always be polite. So I know for a fact that I was polite to him.

My response:
"I'd ask you what your probable cause was."

His face suddenly looked very angered. "What if I told you I was going to search your car anyway."

"Well...I guess I would politely step out of the vehicle and let you do your job."

He says, "Sir...please step out of the vehicle. Now place your hands on the hood." I understand the hands on the hood thing. For his safety. But at that point I was so miffed I was having a hard time keeping my mouth shut. None the less...I did as I was told.

He spent the next half hour removing everything from the vehicle. He opened my bags. Took my close out...AND SAT THEM ON THE GROUND...IN THE GRAVEL! All I could do was watch.

Then another patrolman showed up. He walked back to the vehicle, got in...and proceeded to shoot the bull with the other cop. When I took my hands off the hood...he got out of the vehicle and told me to put them back on. I'm watching my clothing blow around the side of the highway. After about 20 minutes, he comes back, tells me I can pick up my stuff. He goes back to his buddies patrol car and watches me for the next 10 minutes as I gather up literally all the contents of my vehicle and put them back in the car.

When I'm done he says:
"Well I'm going to let you off with a warning this time."

A WARNING!?!?!?! FOR GOING 2 MILES OVER THE SPEED LIMIT? HE HAD ME WITH MY HANDS ON MY HOOD FOR ABOUT 40 MINS! HE TOOK ALL MY CLOTHES...INCLUDING MY SKIVVIES...AND HAD THEM STREWN ALL OVER THE SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY! HE FOUND NOTHING! AND NOW HE HAS THE GALL TO TELL ME THAT I'M GETTING A WARNING! TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE...THIS COP IN THIS PODDUNK TOWN...ACTUALLY ISSUES ME A WRITTEN WARNING! LIKE I'M WORKING A FAST FOOD JOINT IN HS AGAIN!

It took me hours to calm down. I was livid. I was humiliated. I felt like my rights had totally been violated...and all because I was, in his own words, "....clocked at 67 in a 65.".


SouthernDem...was a right to be so perturbed? Did he violate any of my rights? Obviously he had a horrible bed side manner...and I've done enough interstate driving to know how those small towns set up speed traps (can anyone say Hays, KS?)...but did he actually violate any of my rights? And what could I have done...DURING the situation...and AFTER the situation?

And thank you for your service.

[SouthernDem2004]

302. Reply:

1) Perturbed should be an understatement.
2) He violated your 4th Amendment protection from a search.
3) Nothing you could have done during the stop.
4) After you could call the Police Department and complain. Probably pointless if it is a small Department. What you should have done was called the FBI. Yes, the FBI. They investigate these types of issues. What they normal do is drive through the town in normal vehicles dring 2 miles over the limit to see if they are stopped and search. The FBI does take these complaints seriously. The more complaints they receive about an Officer the more they investigate.

Actually, It is unlikely the moron could have written you a citation. Most state traffic laws take into account the margin of error on a normal speedometer and will not allow Officer's to cite for 2 or 3 MPH over.

[Buddyblazon]

306. Thanks for your advice....

too bad it was years ago.

Your advice is what I originally kicked around. Not the FBI part...but calling his department.

My ultra-conservative Father kept trying to tell me he did nothing wrong. And even if he did there was nothing I could do. He kept asking me, "Well what did you do to deserve this.". Made me mad all over again.

I kind of realized that his department would do little if anything. I figured that it was probably the way he had been trained...and that he was most likely not the only officer exhibiting behavior like this given the town...and the route (I know that they get a lot of drugs moving through the highway).

I wish I had know about the FBI thing.

The only satisfaction was angering him when he wanted to search my car. I don't know where I learned about probable cause. And I don't know how I remembered it. But I didn't hesitate when he first posed the idea of a search. Actually, at the time, I could see the anger well up so fast in his face, I got really nervous. For a split second I actually worried about my safety. Like he was gonna yank me out, kick my butt, and book for resisting and assault on an officer.

Somehow he contained himself enough not to wail on me. Instead...he just violated my rights.

Thanks again for the info. I KNEW it was a violation of my rights. I can't wait to call up Pop and let him know he was wrong.

[distantearlywarning]

307. Hi SouthernDem

My uncle used to be a Texas cop, and the stories he tells about those days are both hysterical and horrifying.

What's the weirdest "call" you ever went out on? Or the worst thing you've ever seen as a police officer?

P.S. I have nothing against the police in general. I have had a few run-ins with some jerky cops, and a few run-ins with some really nice ones (including one notable one who probably saved me from going to prison for 10+ years because he decided to be lenient one winter day on a rural desert highway in 1992 - thank you NM highway patrolman wherever you are - I'm a good law abiding citizen now!). I think cops are just like everybody else out there. There are some good ones, and some bad ones, and both kinds have a very hard, dangerous, and mostly thankless job. Since you made this cool post, I suspect you are probably one of the good ones. Thanks for working hard to keep us safe! :-)

[SouthernDem2004]

315. Reply:

I have had some odd calls like a burglar calling the Police because he was stuck in a building he had just broking into. Heck, I have worked probably a dozen cases were a suspect committed a crime and dropped his wallet or id at the crime scene. One of the more unusual calls I have gone to was a subject called 911 on his cell phone and reported that he was driving drunk. He even gave his tag number, location and direction of travel. I have been on calls where people have called 911 because they have gotten objects lodge in certain areas of their body. It is an interesting job.

Worst calls are death or child abuse. If I close my eyes I can still see the first person I ever watched die. His car was struck by a train and he was ejected from the vehicle. Somehow the vehicle landed on top of him and crushed him from about the stomach down. He was still alive and gasping but could not speak. I can still remember the look in his eyes. There was nothing we could do and he died after about 2 minutes. Two of the longer minutes of my life. It is possible he was unaware of what was going on do to schock. I hope that was the case. Child abuse and child deaths are even worse...

[0rganism]

309. In your opinion, are monetary fines and jail bonds equitable?

If a judge sets bail for the same crime committed by two people, one who is wealthy enough to afford it and one who is not, the rich person goes home and the poor person stays in prison. Does this make sense to you?

Similarly, two people are arrested for a misdemeanor of the same variety. Both are fined $1000. Fair is fair, right? The wealthy person easily affords the penalty and moves on, while the poor person faces a difficult financial situation and may well end up in jail for non-payment.

Should one's ability to avoid pre-trial imprisonment and commit misdemeanors with minimal personal consequences depend upon one's resources to pay a fine or make bail? What allowances, if any, should be made to balance personal consequences with economic means?

[SouthernDem2004]

316. Reply:

Felony bonds often do take into account ones ability to pay, misdemeanor do not. Misdemeanor bonds are the maximum amount the law allows to be fined for that charge.

It is a very interesting point you make. You are correct that misdemeanor bonds are often meaningless to people of means. I see it often... Some people can not raised $120 and end up spending a day or two in jail waiting to see a judge. When you tell some people thier bond is $2,500 they reply, "Do you take cash, check or credit cards?" There is no solution since the current system does not allow for a bond in misdemeanors to be higher then the maximum fine. There may be states where that is not the case but I do not know of any.\

Fair? It depends on the way you look at it. I think it is fair as we can really get. No system is perfect.

Should fines be adjusted depending on ones resource to pay? There would be no way to determine that. I suppose we could run credit checks but that would only give us their credit rating. Maybe we could hook all banks up to a single system and the Police could check someones bank account. Who the heck would want that? Talking about the govenment having to much power. Very bad idea... There really is no way to determine ones ability to pay when the initial arrest and bond is set. The current system is the best we can do.

[gtp1976]

310. question

If I'm in the middle of an armed robbery of a convenience store and the clerk has activated the silent alarm, when the police start to show up outside, is it a pretty safe assumption that if I run outside screaming and flailing my arms, then proceed to fire rounds in to the air and at the police cars (but not the police) I will probably get shot about 7-10 times? :D

Seriously, if I am pulled over by a police officer for a routine traffic stop (we'll say speeding just for the sake of argument) and I have a completely registered and legal firearm in the vehicle, would it be a good idea when the officer approaches my car to tell him about it up front? Something like, "Officer, I just want to let you know that I have a registered firearm in my vehicle. It is located (wherever it is), and while I have no intention of using it, I just want to let you know about it so you don't freak out (or get nervous or something) if you happen to see it." Would that be a good idea or might that make the officer nervous as well? What would be the best thing to do in that situation?

[SouthernDem2004]

318. Reply:

1) 7-10 times would not even be close.

2) If the gun is concealed and can not be seen then do not mention it unless he asks you to step out of the car. If he asks you to step out of the car place both of your hands on the top of the steering wheel in plain view and tell him you have a legal firearm in the vehicle and exactly where it is. Then just follow his/her instructions.
If you have a firearm in your vehicle and it is possible for him to see it then place both of you hands on top of the steering wheel as soon as you pull over. (If it is at night turn on the interior vehicle lights first.) Inform the Officer of the firearm as soon as he approaches your vehicle. Then just follow his/her instructions.

[gtp1976]

311. another question

Do female police officers frequently have trouble with men and especially intoxicated men with them trying to "honey" or "darling" them or by thinking they can "take a woman" in a fight?

The reason I ask is because I work in a business that is mostly males. We had a very attractive (and I'm talking smoking hot) female customer that was a police officer. I tried to be as friendly as possible, as did everyone at my business (all men except one woman), but the female officer always seemed guarded or reserved at all times. I have seen male officers come in and most of them behaved just like anyone else would. They would talk and joke and be friendly. It's not that the attractive female police officers we deal with are unfriendly, it's just as if they feel like they have to be more guarded at all times.

Also, why do people try to fight Police Officers? Police Officers are very well trained in self defense are they not? Have you ever seen a Police Officer lose a one-on-one fight with an unarmed "civilian?" I haven't.

[Name removed]

317. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

320. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

321. Reply:

Unfortunately, Female officers do have to put up with more abuse then males. What they do not seem to realize is that being rude greatly increases the likelihood that they will be arrested. Our female officers can hold their own in a fight.

As for fighting, Alot of fights are caused by the suspect being intoxicated or having nothing to lose by fighting. Police do lose fights and I have seen alot of incidents where they have. As you probably know most Police vehicles have dash cams. When a Police Officer is murdered and it is caught on tape that tape is circulated to other Police Departments and Police Training companies. These tapes are shown at briefings and training seminars. I have watch alot of Police Officers die brutal deaths.

http://www.nleomf.com/

[Deja Q]

323. Can you use the handcuffs when off-duty?

As in apprehending a bad-guy. I doubt you'd answer on the obvious double-entendre here. :-)

[SouthernDem2004]

324. Reply:

We can make arrest when off duty. We are always the Police. Outside of my city I would have to make a citizens arrest but I would be very reluctant to do that. Anyway, I do not carry cuffs when off duty.

As for the implied meaning... :) I am not into that personally but metal handcuffs and not very comfortable. I am sure people prefer the fur lined variety. :)

[Deja Q]

359. Cool. Heh. For both counts. Just curious, what does a citizens' arrest

entail?

[THUNDER HANDS]

326. This Is The Greatest DU Thread Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, here's my questions....

1. Are most cops Republicans or Democrats? I'm conflicted on this because (a) most cops seem like law-and-order Republican types. But, (b) they belong to mostly powerful unions, which would probably make them more comfortable with Democrats.

2. What is the age limit for becomming a cop, ie, how old before you're too old to try out?

3. What do you guys do when there's nothing to do?

4. I live in Nassau County, LI, where the cops make upwards of $100,000 a year. Is that a lot for a police officer and do the cops near you make that much?

Thanks again and stay safe!

[SouthernDem2004]

328. Reply:

1) Most are Republican... Every time I say that on a thread I get the "I know a Cop and he says..." I am afraid the truth is that most are Republican. Why? Because Democrats are potrayed as being anti-Police and soft on crime. Did not say it is true but that is the perception.

The Union you refer to is the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). It is the only real Police Union. FOP sponsors Democrats as most Unions do. The rank and file members ignore the recommendations. FOP has the normal union issues. It is a good organization to be a member of if you are in pay disputes and the like but it suffers from the same ills as other Unions. The Police Benevolent Association (PBA)is the other major Police organization. This group is non-union and mainly represents Officers in legal actions and promotes pro-Police legislation. The PBA endoreses both Democrats and Republicans if they support the right issues. Mainly Republicans though... You will find PBA in ever Department. I am not sure of FOPs membership but is in far fewer Departments. I think there maybe 6 Departments in my entire state with FOP members.

2) Min age is 21, max age varies from Department to Department. As long as you can pass the PT test my Department will hire you. I think most are the same or atleast they should be.

3) If we can not finding anything patroling we goof off like anyone else would. :) Some Officers have portable DVD players, laptops etc.
I personally just ride around listening to Sirrius satellite radio.

4) No one around here makes close to that much. Alot of it is based on cost of living. Take for instance when I lived in an apartment here I paid $700 for a 2 bedroom apartment in a gated community. It was an extremely nice complex and the most expensive around. That is chump change probably for your area. Cops in my state and surrounding states can start as low as $18,000 or as high as $30,000. $30,000 is not bad for this region. I am fortunate in that I am on the highend and have been at it for a while.

[THUNDER HANDS]

329. $700 for a two-bedroom?

I was getting a haircut yesterday and the hairdresser said her rent just went up to $1600 a month for a one-bedroom.

Dang.

I think in Nassau County the cops start at about $45k and after 5 years make about $90k. In Suffolk (the other Long Island county) they make even more.

If you ever want to transfer, I'd suggest moving up here (I assume you're down south since you said in an earlier post you almost worked in New Orleans).

[SouthernDem2004]

331. Once you...

factor in the cost of living I am probably better off. Besides, I hate snow....

[TX-RAT]

332. Duty weapon

What do you carry now?
What would you prefer to carry?

My last duty weapon was a 220 Sig.

[SouthernDem2004]

333. I am a Glock person myself...

I carry a 22c as my primary and a 27 as my back up. I have found Glocks to be very reliable. I also like the fact that I can use the magazines from the 22 in my 27.

My Department allows me to carry anything I can qualify with. I carried a Glock 17 at one time but wanted a little more punch so I moved up to the .40 cal. I lost 2 rounds and some velocity but not as much as if I had moved up to a .45. I have been thinking about going to the new Glock .357. All I would have to do is buy new barrels for my 22 and 27 since they use the same frame. Still thinking about it...

[gtp1976]

334. clarification question

Earlier you said, "It is not illegal to use marijuana it is illegal to possess it." This may sound silly, but does this mean if one guy is holding a joint that he owns up to the mouth of another guy that is smoking it, and a police officeer sees it, the holder would be arrested and charged but not the smoker? Or would they both be arrested and then it would go to the ask a criminal defense attorney thread? :-)

[SouthernDem2004]

335. Answer:

Both will be charged. The legal term is constructive possession. The person might not have actual control of the asset at the time but has the power to control the asset.

For example: An Officer approaches a vehicel during a routine traffic stop. There are 4 people in the vehicle. In plain view is a blunt sitting on top of the arm rest between the front seats. The blunt is within reach of all occupants. All four occupants will be arrested and charged.

[gtp1976]

338. so how exactly

do you use marijuana and not possess it? Or were you just playing on semantics? :-)

[SouthernDem2004]

347. reply:

You would be amazed how many people think they can be arrested for possession because they are high. It is not illegal to have it in your system. That was the point I was attempting to make. You could still be arrested for DWI (DUI) if operating a vehicle or Public Intoxication if in public.

[I_equals_PRT]

341. I'd like to ask the police

Why I can't get rid of the "Fraternal Order of Police" who interrupt my activities daily with phone calls soliciting money. I don't know why I would want to give these folks money, I already pay my taxes, and have found that when there is trouble, the police don't get there until it's all over except the crying anyway. I think of the police as report takers for my insurance company. I am pretty sure we have enough of them hanging around the donut shop already, so, if they need a raise, I vote for just diminishing their numbers by attrition, and giving them their raise. We would be better off having half as many cops if they were the good ones and were well paid. We do not need the cops who work in Cook County Tennessee, and shoot the family dog dead while investigating what turned out to not be a crime. We don't need cops like the cops in Milwakee who suffocated Mathew Sheridan last year by putting a plastic bag over his head when they handcuffed him, and found out later he had committed no crime. We don't need the cops like the cops working in GooseCreek South Carolina who raided a high school at 6.30 in the morning last year, subjected the kids to guns in their faces, handcuffs and drug dogs, only to find no drugs. We don't need cops to enforce drug laws at all, since, even if drugs are bad for our kids, going to jail is worse for them then the drugs could ever be. And, we definately don't need The Fraternal Order of Police making daily phone calls harrassing for more money to finace the activities of a group of persons who seem very much like criminals uniformed in blue. My question? How can I get these creepy Fraternal Order people to stop calling me? Asking nice doesn't seem to work. I have been in places in the world where there are no police, and found them to be much more peaceful. A few times in my life I have been the victim of violent crimes, such as muggings, but of course, the police only take a report, it's all over by the time you talk to the police, and the perps long gone, and nobody is going to go looking for them. In America today, if your child gets kidnapped and murdered, you'd better hire a defense attorney quick, because, the police will probably just charge the parents and look no further. People can just consider themselves lucky if they don't suffocate in a plastic bag during the arrest. Another question...What is with you guys? Wouldn't you rather have a more moral job?

[sherilocks]

344. When the FOP starts calling around here asking for money

our local sheriff's dept sends out a reverse 911 call warning citizens that they have no affiliation with this scam.

[SouthernDem2004]

354. Just like to say...

Thank you to everyone. I have enjoyed this thread. I will keep checking it for post and possibly start another one later.

I would also like to thank everyone for the positve post and private messages. The thread did not get as bad as many thought it would. I only had to put 6 people on ignore. Not to bad actually.

[I_equals_PRT]

358. right, i didn't have to put anyone on ignore, n/t