Are the insurgents actually 'winning' the KIA war now?

[osaMABUSh]

Just on Monday I have 30 Iraqi or US troops killed by insurgents but no reports of insurgents being killed. Is it at the point now that they are actually killing more of 'us' than we of them? Are they not only winning the psychological war but the actual war?

It wasn't that long ago that 25 insurgents would be killed for every one American. Is this not being reported anymore for 'security' reasons? Or is there no 'good news' to report?

"At least 13 Iraqi national guard troops died in a battle with insurgents in the Iraqi city of Kut on Monday..."

"On Monday, insurgents killed at least 14 members of Iraqi security forces and one civilian in attacks on checkpoints in two cities..."

"Three U.S. soldiers were killed Monday "while conducting security and stability operations in the Al Anbar Province," ..."

[ladjf]

1. What is important to realize is that while the U.S. forces

may be killing a few dozen insurgents per day, thousands of teenage
boys are maturing to being ready to take the places of the fallen. In other words, the U.S. would have to kill thousands every day to keep of the the rate of maturing boys. That can't and won't happen. Sooner or later, after thousands of additional deaths have occurred on both sides, the U.S. will claim victory and get the hell out. It will go down the annals of American history has the worst military adventure of all time. Fifty years from now, Bush will take his place along side the likes of Hitler and Stalin. School students will study how Bush was able to acquire power, effectively stealing Democracy right from under the noses of the Americans, and with their cooperation.

[LynnTheDem]

3. And future Americans will wonder...

"How did they allow it to happen"

[ladjf]

9. The science of mind control.

[IrateCitizen]

2. It doesn't matter whether they are or not...

Most likely, they are not. Then again, from a KIA standpoint, the US Army was whipping the NVA in Vietnam. Not that it really made any difference in the end.

When you're fighting against people consumed with nationalism, trying to repel and occupying force from their homeland, "body counts" go out the window. The goal of the insurgent force is to simply make things too uncomfortable for the occupying power to stay.

[tx_dem41]

4. The exercis of comparing KIAs to determine who is winning in a conflict...

is very misguided.

[osaMABUSh]

5. I didn't post this to say they are 'winning' because of the KIA #'s

I posted it because I am surprised how the KIAs seemed to have shifted to their favor over the last couple of months and I would think from an American 'propaganda' perspective this number is the most important. Think about what grabs the headlines (when reported): it is always how may were killed (on either side).

So what some of you are saying is that we are losing the war regardless of the KIAs.

[bemildred]

6. This sort of information is understandably hard to come by.

However, there would not seem to be any question at all that we are far
below the sort of attrition ratios that would be required to have some
chance of winning, or even of "staying the course".

[KharmaTrain]

7. There's No Verification

Another thread here had an excellent report from a reporter in Baghdad who said how few of the journalists there venture out of their hotels unless they're embedded with the military...thus there's no way they can know or tell what effect our military is having on the insurgency. The one thing they do know is it's a lot more dangerous walking out their door today than it was a year ago.

Also insurgencies or wars of attrition can't be based on body counts since we have no solid numbers on who the insurgent are or even if there's any sort of organization or coordination. This is a faceless opponent that could be a trained soldier or a kid with a IED. Thus I see us facing an enemy of millions...fighting in their homeland. It's just a matter of time where we'll be worn down and out...just how many more dead will it take for that to happen?

[K-W]

8. Remember the difference between a bombing and a battle.

There are no enemy KIA when they morter a camp, or blowup a remote bomb. So whether or not any enemies are KIA during attacks on US troops is very contingent on the nature of the conflict at a time and what tactics are being chosen, not neccessarily a clear indication of how the war is going.