Kerry calls for Rumsfeld to be fired

[WilliamPitt]

http://truthout.org/fyi

[Pirate Smile]

1. Again? OK - it is a petition for everyone to sign. I couldn't find this

by just going to JohnKerry.com. I got it through Will's link.

Where are they putting this stuff on the web site? Can you only get to it from an e-mail he sends out?

[hector459]

45. This, and he is still going to vote "yes" for Condi?

I am surprised.

[Pirate Smile]

56. He hasn't said he will vote yes for Condi. He said she may NOT

get his vote. We'll see.

[bpilgrim]

51. GORE IS OUTRAGED -----------------------------> mp3

http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/aar/af/gore/we_desperately_need.mp3
more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/aar/af/gore

peace

[Jacobin]

2. But but but

Shrub says the election was a mandate approving of the way the invasion of Iraq was handled.

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

again....bah hahaha, looking at the post above n/t

[gollygee]

3. He should have been fired

the day the abuse/torture scandal surfaced.

If not earlier.

[MindPilot]

4. where was all this tough talk during the campaign?

oh, I forgot, we're supposed to be reconciling and healing.

[seabeyond]

5. noooooo, it was there during the campaign

he said a handful of times he wanted that guy fired.

reconcile and heal or not, not my problem, but today i am merely hearing people mouth off without fact

[blm]

7. Kerry called for Rumsfeld to be fired TWICE during the campaign.

Once in 2003 and again in 2004.

Media was too busy regurgitating Rove's talking points.

[MindPilot]

13. Oh. My. God! Two times!! Amazing! He should run for president.

Was that while he was windsurfing or snowboarding?

[WilliamPitt]

16. GOP talking points are always so attractive

:puke:

[MindPilot]

17. Ummm, Will, those are my words, not Karl's

Do you think Kerry will fall in line and vote to confirm Rice? My guess, based on his past record of doing exactly that, is yes. I would love to be wrong.

[Gay Ranger]

32. Unless he can vote twice...

Once for and once against! Har! Har! Couldn't resist guys! Am I asking for a spanking or what?

In truth, there are countless times when Rummy should have been fired and it would have been appropriate. Shrubbie is not going to do it though. He is just a puppet with the strings being pulled by Rummy Boy, Cheney and others. Just like Condi.

[blm]

18. Did YOU back him up when he called for Rumsfeld to be fired? Did other

Democrats? How many?

You didn't even KNOW about it, so the media really serviced you, didn't they?

[MindPilot]

19. And exactly how would I have backed up Kerry?

Yet another LTE that doesn't get published? Yet another donation to the campaign? Yet another bumper sticker on my car? Yet another evening spent stuffing envelopes? Yet another yard sign in front of my house? Hell, I only had one vote and it went to John Kerry. What more could I have done? His campaign never called me for advice.

You put words in my mouth; I didn't say "Kerry has never mentioned Rumsfeld's failures", I said "where was all this tough talk during the campaign?" Do I have to expalin what I meant?

[blm]

20. The tough talk was THERE. You had to comb the media to hear it

mentioned. They rarely did.

The summer of 2003 he called for Rumsfeld's resignation and again in the summer of 2004. He wasn't kidding around. Democrats could have joined him in calling Rumsfeld out. Few did.

[Redleg]

40. Sometimes it's like talking to a brick wall.

Some of our fellow DUers can't possibly say anything good about any Dems, especially Kerry.

[Lizzie Borden]

50. Bingo. That's exactly what it's called,

and I'm tired of it. It isn't very creative to sit back and just dis the hell out of somebody. It's pretty easy to do. You really don't have to think too hard.

[tyedyeto]

49. I know that I signed petitions that called on him to resign...

but it didn't do any good then and it won't get anywhere now.....methinks that we are so divided that this admin doesn't give a shit what the voting public thinks.

[bunny planet]

35. ....................

:wtf:

[bunny planet]

36. you really must be ignored.

[Pirate Smile]

12. It isn't new. The new part is to sign the petition calling for Rummy's

ouster.

[Redleg]

39. Did you watch any of Kerry's speeches or the debates?

He was quite critical of the Iraq war.

[stevedeshazer]

47. He voted for the war, that can't be erased

He said he was critical of how it was conducted, and I agree.

I watched every minute of every debate.

[stevedeshazer]

6. And the chances that this will happen?

Zero.

Kerry can't even say straight out if he'll vote against the Rice nomination. Too little, too late.

Sorry Will, I know how supportive you were of him; it led me in part to support him, too. I so wanted him to be President that I could almost taste it.

Now a regurgitation of his support for Rumsfeld's firing, which he already called for on August 25, 2004. source: http://rightthinkinggirl.typepad.com/right_thinking_girl/2004/08/john_kerry_rums.html

Big fucking deal.

The only Senator with the guts showed herself today, and I frankly think John Forbes Kerry ought to be ashamed to re-release this today. What about Rice?

There, I said it.

:grr:

[seabeyond]

8. i thought kerry was good today

i thought kerry called rice on stuff adn i thought he called bush on more. sorry for your disappointment. i was not disappointed. i enjoyed hearing democrats. i havent heard from them in a really long time.,

[seabeyond]

10. ha haha getting time, boxer two rounds.

two hours says lugar, everyone laugh. no two rounds. bah hahaha

that was cute. see it isnt all bad
maybe i can get the kids and store, adn get back and see

[stevedeshazer]

14. Empty words

And if he votes against the Rice nomination, I'll gladly eat them.

He won't.

[seabeyond]

21. "Empty words" merely your opinion

talk kerry talk. shut up kerry you have nothing to say, just empty words. you let us down kerry. you dont throw tantrums kerry. you arent good enough for me kerry. waaaaaaaa

listen to kids all day long.

lordy, kerry cant do right huh. same while he was running. didnt matter what he did there was always, aLWAys a group to tear him down

[stevedeshazer]

22. If your juvenile post made any sense at all, I'd know how to respond

How about using plain language instead of baby talk?

[seabeyond]

25. equally you post sounded childish, hence my response n/t

[stevedeshazer]

23. And let me add, will he vote against her confirmation tomorrow?

Wanna bet?

[seabeyond]

24. i dont have issue with them voting for condi

you know i just dont. what is the difference in this administration. you have a repug congress, she is going to get in. i dont care who votes for her or who doesnt. what i do care about is holding their feet to the fire every single step of the way. we are just starting in this new administration. and jan 6 and today, i see the dems standing up and speaking out. and not keeping mouth shut. and speaking truths

that is what i want. i will see what it creates as we go. lets not forget. this is the repug to do. they have, HAVE all the power. all the fuck ups are on their shoulder. and i want to see the dems call them everytime.

[stevedeshazer]

29. Great!

Let's have the 44 Dems in the Senate just RUBBER STAMP the Bush Administration's choices.

Besides Barbara Boxer, WHICH DEM STOOD UP on January 6th?

Please be specific.

Thank you in advance.

[seabeyond]

30. you know what f* happened jan 6th. and again i say so

we have work to do. we have things to investigate. we need to start prosecuting people in the election fraud. there is a group of people conyer being one of them that are doing the digging and research

see, this is congress. the way it works. i dont have to have it done my way, i know it is done in a particular way. and this does not bother me that 1 senator voted against. i did see how many of the senators just barely started listening to the issue.

they have to get informed. we have to inform them. they represent us. i am amazed how protected they are from information, but i do see it seeping in. you dont fine. i do. i see they are listening to us. and they are becoming aware and speaking out.

it is like you want magic

[stevedeshazer]

37. Not magic

Just truth. How much more will it take to get the Senators listening?

Yeah, I know what happened on January 6th.

We want the same thing, my friend, as far as I can tell.

We are both frustrated, no? You must be more patient than me...I've been waiting since the Reagan years.

I know quite well how things work in Congress, and the "seeping in" part you refer to just isn't happening. It just isn't. It hasn't for years. There are a few exceptions. You mentioned Conyers, he is one. Boxer is one. Kerry isn't one. I support the ones exclusively from now on...

Some day, some way, but it ain't happening now.

Who exactly is going to prosecute election fraud, anyway?

I'm all for speaking out. Give me some more of that.

The Social Security debate will separate the wheat from the chaff soon enough. Then we'll know who is on our side for sure.

Keep fighting. :toast:

[seabeyond]

43. i think we can press charges against blackwell

there have been laws broken. there is a christian orginization that blatantly and in front of witnesses threw away thousands of democrats registration forms., they can be prosecuted. it is said richardson is breaking more laws than blackwell, i dont know this, he can be prosecuted

start prosecuting the ones we know. let there be repercussions.

i heard more truths being spoken today than a very long time.

it was reagans second election that started me going to.

maybe we have to just totally destroy ourselves before we will be able to re build, but it is a lot in the "we the people". the politicians are as they are a lot because of "we the people".

maybe we have simply become to selfish of a people. none of us willing for compromise, none of us willing to accept anothers choice, it must always be done our way, but, i know i wouldnt tell my boys to put tail between legs and give up. and this is their world they are going into. it is already so angry and mean. not a real fun place for a kid right now. just getting worse. i feel i should at least try

this is their future

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. Rumsfeld is central to B*'s plans, according to Hersh

That was one of the sub-stories in the Seymour Hersh New Yorker article reporting on the secret Iran missions to prepare for invasion.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2962328
B* relies on Rumsfeld and will only fire him if it really does come down to his being forced to sacrifice Rumsfeld as the goat to distance himself from scandal. B* and his enablers don't appear to be concerned about that happening any time soon. They believe the opposition to their plans is powerless.

It's not just the preparation to invade Iran that is important in the Hersh story -- it's the "hollowing out" of the CIA, the continuing process of removing all oversight, professional experience, or expert leadership from intelligence gathering and transferring it to Rumsfeld's circle of power. This is a vital part of B*'s power consolidation scheme. He won't give up Rumsfeld without being forced to, and that would take a huge amount of pressure that so far hasn't materialized. Rumsfeld has been a disaster in so many ways and many people have complained, but so far it's mostly just words. B* ignores those.

[burythehatchet]

41. that makes sense

that's why Kerry is trying to put some pressure on this

[Pam-Moby]

11. Thanks William

I just love truthout and the news that you print.

[YNGW]

15. And?

This means nothing.

[NervousRex]

26. Kerry calls for...

...sunshine and lollipops for everyone...Philip Morris...clean toilets in truck-stops. If Kerry falls in a forest, and there is no one to hear him, does he make a sound?

[seabeyond]

27. does he make a sound?.....obviously not since campaigning

they didnt put him on msm and no one i guess heard anything the man said during the campaign. people on this thread alone seem to not know the things kerry has said

so i guess, no kerry does not make a sound

[NervousRex]

31. Kerry is an Unperson

he is a specimen in a Bell Jar...in Amerika you don't need silly gulags....not yet.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. .

:evilgrin:

[ulysses]

28. gotta disagree.

Fire him and they can claim that they've "fixed" things. I want Rummy hung around Bush's neck like a twelve-ton turkey for all eternity.

[cestpaspossible]

34. Rumsfeld needs to go... whoever replaces him can't be worse nt

[Dulcinea]

38. Rummy's one of the puppet masters.

He's not going anywhere. He'll go down with the ship.

[sweetheart]

53. indeed

After seeing him on the power of nightmares, bullshitting up the
"soviet" threat of nonexistant weapons systems as part of "team B"
there is clearly a pattern of repeated use of public office to decieve
and subvert the constitution. Rumsfeld should be more than fired.

He should be charged with felony counts of war crimes, and high crimes
agsint the constitution and the american people.... That said, one
neocon as central as him, can't go down without taking out the rest
and cheney the puppetmaster will never have it... rather he'll have
kerry thrown in prison. The felons run the prison.. black is white.
THe only decent approach is to reach out to all the still-decent
governmetns around the world... write to other nations and governments
that they oppose the criminals before its too late.

[killbotfactory]

42. The era of accountability is over! So speaketh Bush.

So let it be written
So let it be done
Hail Bush! King of Freedom!

[Disturbed]

44. Charles Rangel's Impeachment Paper...

of Rumsfailed?

Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also proscecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

=========================
Q: Senator Jack Reed (Dem, RI): "If you were shown
a video of a United States Marine or an American
citizen in control of a foreign power, in a cell block,
naked with a bag over their head, squatting with their
arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that
as a good interrogation technique or a violation of
the Geneva Convention?"

A: Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff: "I would describe it as a violation."

A: Paul D. Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense: "What
you've described to me sounds to me like a violation of the
Geneva Convention."

Thursday, May 13, 2004, Senate Armed Services Committee hearings

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-20...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-2004May13.htm

Friday 17 December 2004

“Scott Horton, a New York lawyer and president of the International League for Human Rights, has spent months investigating the role Bush administration officials played in the torture scandal. He says there is mounting evidence - including the May 10 FBI e-mail - that strongly suggests that Rumsfeld and his top intelligence aides were directly responsible for the wholesale abandonment of legal and ethical norms as well as international treaty obligations. Now that Republican senators and neoconservative ideologues are publicly turning their backs on the defense secretary, perhaps even he may someday be held accountable for this disgraceful stain on the honor of the U.S. armed forces.”

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121804X.shtml




Does the US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

[anarchy1999]

46. Thanks, Kerry. Too little, too late.

n/t

[Rex]

48. Kerry who?

nt

[anarchy1999]

52. Kerry sent me an e-mail or two today. I fired back. You are fired and

hell no, I'll never give you another dime. After your concession on the morning after the "selection". He made a promise to me and he broke it. I'm through. He wants support now? Not ever!

[KG]

54. sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[cornermouse]

55. Dear Mr. Pitt

I've given up on Kerry. Just like Bush, its their actions that count, not their words.

You don't listen to what they say, you watch what they actually do.