Childless couples? who has a link?

[liberalitch]

Who has a link to the article I saw here once in which there was reference to the fact the RW nazis would have the government begin to question the motives of couples who remain childless by choice?

I know one of y'all has it... give it up

[Ezlivin]

1. Great, now I'm paranoid. Should we start in-vitro right away?

My wife and I have been married 26 years and decided early not to have children. It's been great and neither of us regret it at all.

Sometimes we feel like the only childless couple on the planet. (Could that be because we live in the suburbs of DFW, the Buckle of the Bible Belt?)

[Rainbowreflect]

2. My husband & I are childless by choice as well.

:hi:

[liberalitch]

5. I'm husbandless and childless by choice...

Should I be burned at the stake?

The commie and I are "living in sin"

[Rainbowreflect]

6. She's (?) a Litch, She's a Litch, Burn her!

;-)

[Jazzgirl]

8. Husbandless and childless here too...

By choice! I knew in my twenties I didn't want to have kids. I was fortunate enough to have a Mom that told me to only have them if I wanted them. Don't have them because I thought I'd be giving her or my Dad grandchildren. She said she had us (my brother and I) because she planned us. She and her mother were always advocates of choice. She also said never let anyone make you feel guilty about your choices.

JG

[Mountainman]

21. Some times I tell people we didn't want to have kids and they ask

Well what about her parents or your parents. I answer, I guess they can still have kids if the want.

[Warpy]

3. You're not the only childless couple

but chances are that you're the only couple who's been together that long!

The babble belt has the worst divorce statistics in the country.

[liberalitch]

4. YES..... and more importantly...

I think that BOTH of you should try to have a baby..... this might require complicated uterus implantation surgery for you but.....

[Ezlivin]

18. Open womb, install baby, upload security patches, reboot?

What if my wife doesn't have enough expansion ports?

She's Wife 1.0 and I've been with her since she was beta. I really don't want to upgrade; she comes with all the features I need.

:)

[babylonsister]

28. Going on 23 blissful years-no kids here either.

There are 2 from his first marrige. That's enough for us!

Edit: This does allow us lots of time to travel and to do what WE want.

[Heddi]

7. I am amazed at the lack of sensitivity people with kids (or who want kids)

show towards people like my husband and I, who are childfree by choice.

Constantly--CONSTANTLY--we (mainly me, since I'm the one with the Uterus) are asked:

Do you have kids
--no
Do you want kids
--no
Why not
--I don't know. I just don't
Will you ever have/want kids
--I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. I'm erring on the side of caution
Are you....(whispering)..able to have kids
--is it your business
Well, I mean, most people your age....
--most people my age have $10,000 in credit card debt, have already filed bankrupcy twice, and have kids because they feel societal pressure, not because they wanted to have kids.

I'm amazed...just amazed that people think that they have the RIGHT..no, the OBLIGATION to ask about PERSONAL CHOICES between my husband and I.

I mean, what if we WERE sterile? Would that make it okay? What if I'm a psychopathic wench when I drink alcohol, and I can't control my alcohol intake so I'd rather not be abusive to a child? What if I've got major genetic problems that would be passed to a child? Are THOSE reasons okay to not have a child? Am I a less-worthy person because I *CHOOSE* not to have one for no particuarly good reason, rather than being able to fall back on the 'medical problems' excuse?

Sorry for the rant. I've had SO many people just butt their noses right in my fucking fundus as if they have a right to know my contraceptive history, frequency of periods, and that I must...MUST have a list of reasons why we're childless and our reasons better be good enough to WARRANT not having children.

And I find that people who ask these questions are TOTALLY oblivious to just how rude they are, and how insulting it is to ME and my HUSBAND that we're seen as being sterile/stupid/bad people because we don't have 45 progeny running around our feet, tripping us up with gooey hands that smell like kool-aid and butt all rolled together.

I want a shirt that says: I HATE KIDS AS MUCH AS I HATE YOU, THAT'S WHY WE DON'T HAVE ANY. Of course I don't hate kids....I'm just mildly irritated by them

Sorry....this wasn't supposed to be a child-free rant. I'm sorry. I hate, as a woman that NOTHING about my ovaries, uterus, and cervix are private. I'm questioned when I take birth control. I"m questioned whenI get pregnant. I'm questioned when I have an abortion. I'm questioned when I opt for adoption. I'm questioned when I have children, and I'm questioned when I don't. I wish that people would find some other conversation peice. I'm tired of everyone focusing on my vaginal activities.

[Jazzgirl]

10. Heddie, you ae right! None of anybodys business!

I'm well over the childbearing age now but I remember people would ask me why I didn't have any kids. I'd tell them 'cuz I didn't want them. They actually had the nerve to say I was being selfish. I'd tell 'em that frankly, it was none of their business what I did with my body! People would also make stupid remarks like "don't you want somebody to take care of you in your old age?" What kind of shit question is that??!!?? I guess people have kids just to make sure they're not "alone" when they get old. Far as I'm concerned, thats what nursing homes are for.

JG

[liberalitch]

12. Don't apologize for the rant.....

I know how you feel....
I have had people overly curious about as to why, after 9 years, the commie and i aren't married and have kids....

I even had someone ask once.... "Are you not marrying him because he's a communist?"

[Heddi]

33. LOL!

yeah. communists and marriage....like Superman and kryptonite :eyes:

Someone asked me if I didn't have kids becuase, you know, I was afraid they'd be fat like me, you know, since fat is genetic.

Yeah. MAIN thing on my mind...not prenatal development. not gestational diabetes. not a healthy baby. No. My main worry, should I become pregnant, is:

WILL THE BABY BE FAT

People! Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em without good cause.

[SmokingJacket]

14. People have a hard time understanding people who make

different choices from their own. For some reason, the childlessness thing brings out the worst in people. There's no excuse for such rudeness. I'm sorry you've had to deal with this!

I wish people with kids and people without could have saner conversations, actually. I have kids, but I still LIKE my friends who don't have them. And I've often thought that, if I had a number of lives to try out, I'd like to see what a childless one would be like -- one in which I could focus on my career and things other than kids. Because they do take a person over.

[susanna]

34. That's a thoughtful post, SJ.

Thank you for it.

I've been on receiving end of the "you can't be a woman without having a child," or "children are the only thing that give life meaning," train for many, many years. I am older, and just got married a couple months ago. I have to tell you, this type of thinking is FLYING out of my family and friends right now.

For the record, I LOVE children, and they love me; I have multiple nieces, nephews and Godchildren that love me dearly, and the feeling is mutual. I, however, am at an age biologically that increases all the bad things about pregnancy (and the ability to get pregnant), so there is no way in the world I am going to set myself up for the disappointment of making a child a priority and failing.

My husband and I are of the opinion "Relax; if it happens, it happens. If not, we really adore each other and can live a full and happy life regardless. Maybe next time." :-)

on edit: clarity

[Heddi]

36. Thanks for your kind words

Currently, I'm in nursing school and my husband is about to be in about 6 mos. There is NO WAY we could both be out of work and in school at the same time with kids. no way.

I feel that to be a successful nurse, I have to give 100% of myself during school. I have to be able to study for 10 hours a day to learn what I need to learn so that I can give the best care possible.

When my family (FAMILY!) asks "oh when are you two going to settle down" I just want to scream! We've been married for 5 years. We ARE settled. WE're both in school---and they all know this. I wonder if their desire for a grandkid has removed all logic and reason from their brains? It's not like having a kid carries NO responsiblity.

Right now, we rent--don't want a kid if I don't own the house.
Right now, we don't have jobs. We don't have health insurance. We live a meager life. It's great for two adults, but would be completely inadequate if we had a child. I've got a cat, some mice and some fish and THAT responsibility overwhelms me at times.

I see two distinct futures for Mr. Heddi and I--one without a child, one with a child. Already, I'm 29 and won't get out of school for another year. Mr. Heddi's 32 and won't be out of school for another 2 years. I'd like to live a little before we settle down....do some travel nursing overseas. LIVE a life that isn't poverty-stricken for a while....and honestly, because I didn't make a firm career choice until later in life, I just don't see time-wise the feasability in having a child. I don't want to be pregnant when I'm 40, but I just don't see any time before that when having a child is even remotely feasable or wanted.

It's such a complex decision, with so many emotions wrapped around it. I'm an only child, therefore I"m my mother's only hope in being a grandmother. She'd make a super grandmom, and sometimes I feel that I'm letting her down by not having a child. BUt equally, I have to live my life the way that best suits Mr. Heddi and I. I'm sorry that she may never become a grandmother. It pains me, but at the same time, I can't live my life based on the expectations of others--we'd all be let down then.

[misanthrope]

16. Huzzah!!!...

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

First, for referring to it as "childfree" and not "childless." The second term seems to infer some type of shortcoming, not a choice.

Secondly, I'm absolutely sick of the condescension from the child-bearing. I've actually been told that others "feel sorry for me" because I don't wish to compound the world's problems by adding more homo sapiens to the mix. The "selfish" charge often surfaces as well, which is the ultimate irony considering the reasons most others will list for becoming parents certainly seem much more selfish in origin.

It's amazing how blind the majority are to the pressure and penalties involved in the parenting question.

[lanlady]

23. childfree vs childless

I feel childfree (but not childless) because both my kids are away at college, and not likely to live under my roof again for any length of time.

I don't think that childfree will ever take the place of childless.

[Heddi]

31. Yeah! Thank YOu!

I too agree that the -less makes it seem as if I'm lacking.

Shit---I ain't lacking NOTHING. got money, got a sweet car, and most of all, I sleep until 1pm EVERY Saturday and Sunday.

Told a gal I go to school with the other day that the ONE reason that I ain't having kids is that I don't wanna get up early on the weekends :)

During December, my hubby and I were both out of school for Xmas break....not one damn day did we get out of bed before 1:00pm. It was sweet :)

[smirkymonkey]

19. I want one of those T-shirts!

Actually I don't exactly hate kids (I love my nieces and nephews) but I have absolutely ZERO interest in having one.

How about saying, "Because everyone I know who has kids is absolutely miserable." That usually shuts them up.

(No offense to happy DU parents - it's usually the nosy ones who are unhappy with their choices that are most likely to confront you on why you don't have kids.)

[Heddi]

32. Let's make some and sell them online

I also want to make a bumpersticker that says

MY BABY ATE YOUR HONOUR STUDENT and have a picture of one of those 400lb todlers.

Not that I think fat babies are funny. Because they're not. But the idea of a fat baby eating an honour student *IS* funny. Coronary artery disease at 3 years old isn't.

Just to clarify:

Fat babies - not funny
Fat babies eating something - may be funny
Fat babies eating honour students - very funny
Fat babies having coronary atherosclerosis - not funny

does that make sense?

[Withywindle]

22. Don't apologize for that rant, it's beautiful!

:thumbsup: to every word.

[Virginian]

38. Oh No! I knew I forgot something, I forgot to have kids!!!

That makes them laugh and gets them off the subject.

I feel like I have a say in the School situation, without children for deductions, more of my tax money goes for education. I do not choose for that money to go to vouchers to private schools. I want my tax dollars improving the public school system.

[flygal]

40. Well, since I've had kids

I actually have a greater understanding and appreciation for those who don't. I don't live a day without fear of something happening to them - even little things like getting their feelings hurt. I know people without kids live wonderful lives.

That said - MY kids do not smell like Kool-aid and gooey butt all day. :)

[Ready4Change]

9. We're not exactly childless. We pay taxes.

So in a way we're paying for the education of every child in our county, state and country.

Next time I get the old "Do you have kids? Do you want kids? Why not?" question I intend to interrupt and ask "Do you like my extra tax dollars for YOUR kids school?"

Frankly it doesn't bug me that much. But it would be nice to interrupt the standard inquisition.

[SnowGoose]

11. Why don't the wingers gripe about "big government" support

of couples with children? I mean, look at the subsidizing the government does with child exemptions on your income tax.

Ok, so I have a bunch of kids, why should the government then say, "you don't have to contribute as much to societal infrastructure since you've been poppin' em out." If you have kids, you're arguably using *more* of society's resources (schools, roads, police/fire protection, etc.) so why don't you have to pay *more*?

[Catbird]

13. Big Brother??

How would anyone be able to tell the difference between couples who have chosen childlessness and those who have accepted it? Notarized affidavits? Medical records? Character witnesses? I cringe at the thought of the Big Brother operation that would be needed to keep track.

I'm sorry that I don't have a link to the article.

[liberalitch]

15. Well, according to the patriot act....

they can get your medical records.... what if they begin to say that terrorist have no kids so that they don't leave orphans when they become "suiciders"

[hannah]

17. Kids

It's even worse when people ask why you don't have kids, when you have miscarriage after miscarriage cause your husband was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam.

[Missy Vixen]

24. Hannah, I am so sorry

>when you have miscarriage after miscarriage cause your husband was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam.<

I am so sorry that this is happening to you. It breaks my heart to meet women who want a child so badly, and they haven't been blessed with one as of yet. Even if I didn't want to have kids of my own, I can empathize with that kind of heartbreak. It's so unfair.

I am only sorry that I won't be standing there when the next thoughtless person dares to question you on this subject.

I hope that you will realize your fondest wish.

Julie

[scarlett1]

27. Hannah, or when people ask why you don't have kids and

all you want to say is after spending over $40,000 in medical expenses, and related fees to have one a child without success I just couldn't take it any more

[susanna]

35. Oh, Hannah

I'm so very sorry. Truly. The people that continued to ask such a question over a period of time should just stop and THINK for a minute. Unfortunately most don't, and I am sorry you had to endure that type of questioning. How thoughtless of those people!

I, for one, never question folks who have children OR those who do not about why. I was raised that it was 1) extremely bad manners and 2) none of my business. If only more folks thought that way...

[Catbird]

42. I am sorry to hear this

Hannah,

I am sorry to hear about your problems since I have also had several miscarriages.

:grouphug:

[Mountainman]

20. I guess I can expect a call from the RW Nazis soon.

I didn't want to raise kids and my wife didn't want to have any.

We wanted to spend all our time and money on ourselves. And we have.

Come get me copper!

[Nobody]

25. You ever notice....

that in many cases children are seen as a punishment? Particularly when abortion topics come up. Also, before birth control became a commonly available thing, there were the following attitudes:

Married women who had interests in things that society thought was unsuitable (meaning anything not involving children or family) was usually dealt with by someone telling her husband that he should get her pregnant and she'll be too busy to stick her nose in men's affairs.

Single women who were pregnant for any reason were tut tutted over and society at large judged her no better than she should be.

One of the effects of the witch hunts of the middle ages was to stamp out of Europe widespread knowledge of contraceptive herbal remedies. Favorite targets of the witch hunts were midwives.

This does a huge disservice to children as well as to adults.

[susanna]

37. There is a book...

called "A Midwife's Tale" by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich that might be of interest to you.

Short synopsis: a midwife and her journal from the 17/1800s and her "practice" in Maine.

It's really an eye-opening book. For example, I'm willing to bet that "single mothers" are not the exclusive scourge of our time. (I say this sarcastically, as there are many who think the "old days" were pure as the driven snow).

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Here is the AP story...

that sparked the outrage, and another that speaks about the evils of "deliberate childlessness":


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-21-marriage-conservatives_x.htm

NEW YORK (AP) -- "Protection of marriage" is now the watchword for many activists fighting to prevent gays and lesbians from marrying. Some conservatives, however, say marriage in America began unraveling long before the latest gay-rights push and are pleading for a fresh, soul-searching look at the institution.

"When you talk about protecting marriage, you need to talk about divorce," said Bryce Christensen, a Southern Utah University professor who writes frequently about family issues.
While Christensen doesn't oppose the campaign to enact state and federal bans on gay marriage, he worries it's distracting from immediate threats to marriage's place in society.

"If those initiatives are part of a broader effort to reaffirm lifetime fidelity in marriage, they're worthwhile," he said. "If they're isolated - if we don't address cohabitation and casual divorce and deliberate childlessness - then I think they're futile and will be brushed aside."




http://www.gender-news.com/other.php?id=23

Christians must recognize that this rebellion against parenthood represents nothing less than an absolute revolt against God's design. The Scripture points to barrenness as a great curse and children as a divine gift. The Psalmist declared: "Behold, children are a gift of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; they will not be ashamed when they speak with their enemies in the gate."

...snip

Morally speaking, the epidemic in this regard has nothing to do with those married couples who desire children but are for any reason unable to have them, but in those who are fully capable of having children but reject this intrusion in their lifestyle.

...snip

Couples are not given the option of chosen childlessness in the biblical revelation. To the contrary, we are commanded to receive children with joy as God's gifts, and to raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. We are to find many of our deepest joys and satisfactions in the raising of children within the context of the family. Those who reject children want to have the joys of sex and marital companionship without the responsibilities of parenthood. They rely on others to produce and sustain the generations to come.

...snip

The church should insist that the biblical formula calls for adulthood to mean marriage and marriage to mean children. This reminds us of our responsibility to raise boys to be husbands and fathers and girls to be wives and mothers. God's glory is seen in this, for the family is a critical arena where the glory of God is either displayed or denied. It is just as simple as that.

[kineneb]

39. Gee, so we should kill the planet with people

I don't have children because there are so many already here and so many unwanted. The species has exceeded carrying capacity at 6 Billion plus. These religous whackos can stuff it. Let them go watch the millions of children who starve every year...aaaarrggh!

"Be fruitful" was for back when the Jewish tribes were wandering around in the dessert. We have "done that" already. Now is the time to be stewards of what is left of the planet.

Every child should be wanted as a person, not simply happen as an accident. Period.

[doodadem]

41. Criminy!

If the religious crazies that quote those kinds of scriptures would use a little common sense for once, and think about the times when they were supposedly written--world population was sparse, and people had to have 50 kids, because only a few of them would make it to adulthood due to disease, famine, etc.
They have NO pertinence in today's world of overpopulation, famine (it does seem to keep cropping up, doesn't it?), depletion of natural resources, and on and on.
My husband and I (celebrated our 20th anniversary last month)decided early on that we were not parent material. Besides bad family genetics we didn't want to pass on, I had helped raise a brother, and nephews, and that was plenty. IMO, if more people would realize their limitations and not feel pressured into childbearing, we would put an end to child abuse, and a host of other societal problems.

However, I am a wonderful mommy to the four-leggeds....

[cowbear]

29. Speaking of right wing groups and families...

My husband was listening to NPR this morning and tipped me off to this...someone from Focus on the Family was on (I think it was founder James Dobson) and he was talking about how important Christian beliefs are to families and goes on to say (or should I say mean to say) "we in Christian beliefs" but INSTEAD starts to say "we in Caucasian beliefs!!!" We looked up the broadcast on NPR...here's a link to it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=44...

The "slip" takes place at about 2 minutes and 10 seconds.

By the way, hello! I've lurked for a while but have never replied to anything before. I thought this was wild though and I had to share.

[cowbear]

30. Sorry, bad link...try this:

I'm kind of clueless, for some reason the whole link isn't posting...after storyId=44 there should be more numbers, it should be =4457286
Hopefully you can find it, you can also go through npr.org and follow the links on the front page for Colorado evangelicals.