WTF is up with Obama??? n/t

[movie_girl99]

[WritersBlock]

1. I almost just burst my own eardrums screaming "WHAT??"?

when he voted aye.

Geez.

[CAcyclist]

113. Well, I for one, am not surprised.

I predict Obama is going to continue to be a cautious senator and will not be out in front on anything controversial.

Jesse Jackson, Jr., now - he's the guy people should be putting their money on.

[bpilgrim]

2. he's tow'n the party line

he's a made man

peace

[Ninga]

3. I extend my most heatfelt condolences to all DU'er of good faith.

Now, more than ever, who is voted the new Chair of the DNC is critical.

We wait like sheep to find out who will be our new leader.


The circus will not allow Howard Dean to occupy the center ring.

This party is in a sorry, sorry state.

[Acryliccalico]

4. Don't have a clue on that one?

Maybe he wants to "work with them and not against them"? Like * said " you are with us or against us", * can only see black or white, left or right, bottom or top. There is a thousand in betweens but * and his gov. can't see the bigger middle.

[Goldeneye]

5. here we go...

[bpilgrim]

8. we've been going down this road since 12-12-00

it's why we're here and a well worn road, indeed.

peace

[Kitka]

6. I’m disappointed for sure. However,

I will not write him off yet!

[Guns Aximbo]

7. he's in

now he can do whatever HE WANTS, what is GOOD FOR HIM... &%$$% politicians.

[gasperc]

9. probably leave door open so Rice will listen when he has idea

if he votes no, then Rice will blow him off for sure. It's politics. As Iraq turns more and more hellish, Obama wants at least an ear to hear a different POV. Whether she listens or not is another thing.

That's about the only reason I can think of for him voting to confirm.

[bpilgrim]

11. Whether she listens or not is another thing.

no it's the MAIN thing AND since this is POLITICS and we KNOW she WONT listen it is time to make SYMBOLIC STATEMENTS in front of the cameras and for the HISTORICAL record even if it doesn't change the outcome of the current vote.

he's a manufactured candidate who i don't expect much from cept to tow the party line as he's been doing well from jump.

peace

[anarchy1999]

16. Amen and peace!

He is supposed to represent the people and hold our elected officials accountable. He just f'd up, IMHO. Just another bought and paid for "politician".

[zann725]

117. He IS a "manufactured"...Manchurian-like. That's why Power loves him so..

They know exactly where he'll "go"...and where not.

Despite all the public praise for him, on a gut-level I find him VERY disingenuous.

[donsu]

14. get a grip Rice only listens to the criminal bushgang

as she is a member in good standing of the criminal bushgang.

rice is a criminal.

[Nederland]

10. He's a smart politician

If Democrats followed the advice of people here at DU, we'd have about six Senate seats. People here are clueless sometimes.

[Cooley Hurd]

12. _|_

Tell me again how playing pattycake with the repubs has gained us senate & house seats in the last 4 years...:eyes:

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. Exactly!

I think the Senate Dems who voted to confirm Condiliar even with reservations, thinking that she and her evil boss will listen to them, are the clueless ones.

[theHandpuppet]

47. Thank you!

The "bend over and grab your ankles" strategy has worked SO well for us, hasn't it. The only thing its really gotten us is a really good view of our own ass.

As the saying goes, "A difference that makes no difference IS no difference". Tht pretty well sums up my feelings about our party right now, with but a few brave exceptions.

[Nederland]

89. Playing pattycake?

The reason we have lost seats in the House and Senate is because the Democratic Party hasn't done shit for the American people.

[Cooley Hurd]

106. "Haven't done shit?" That isn't what you said...

If Democrats followed the advice of people here at DU, we'd have about six Senate seats. People here are clueless sometimes.

So, _|_

[Nederland]

107. Confused

How does my original post imply that Democrats have accomplished something?

[Cooley Hurd]

109. Yes, you are...

Your original post was critical of those of us who felt Obama should've voted against the Rice nomination - that it was politically unwise to do so. Your second post implied something comletely different.:crazy:

[Nederland]

111. You're confused

Somehow you believe that the American people will look at a Senator voting against a nomination and view that as "accomplishing something". They won't. They will look at it as yet another example of Democrats simply opposing everything and producing nothing.

If you think I'm wrong, can you give me an example of something the Democratic Party has done for the American people?

[bpilgrim]

13. pfft... he's a stuffed shirt manufactured and foisted on the stage with a

million dollar marketing blitz.

rookies need to EARN their respect around here, pardner.

peace

[anarchy1999]

17. "People here are clueless, sometimes", WTF!

How dare you say what you've just said in response to some of the most respected members of this community. I just don't get it. Personally, sir/madam, you are the one without a clue.

[truebrit71]

32. What's the difference if the "democrats" we elect vote for republicans..

..and their policies all the time???

Seriously, what's the difference?

I would rather have 6 Senators that voted no, and went down defending our priniples and our beliefs, rather than the bunch we have now rolling over and getting their (pork-filled) bellies scratched for being good doggies....

If they don't vote as Democrats, for Democratic principles and Democratic ideals WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE???

[Nederland]

108. I'm not suggesting that

I'm not suggesting that Democrats become Republican Lite. I'm suggesting that Democrats start standing for something other than kneejerk opposition to all Republican ideas. People around here get pissed off whenever Democrats don't oppose Republicans on every issue.

That's what I was referring to.

[CAcyclist]

115. What are you even doing here?

I wish they *would* "kneejerk" oppose everything the Republican Party wants. It would be a start.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. i completely agree...

[suziedemocrat]

119. What good are democrats in the house or senate....

if they don't vote like Democrats? What difference would it really make if we had fewer Democratic Senators - they vote with Republicans anyway - even on stuff that REALLY MATTERS!!! What's the point? Obama has a pretty safe seat - if he won't even act like a Democrat - it all seems pretty hopeless.

[loyalsister]

121. He's walking the walk

Did anyone here listen to his speech???
He promised to truly be a uniter. He is acting like one by giving her an opportunity to screw up. This is about actually taking the high road.
Don't underestimate the effect of what has come out in the hearings. They very well may have her ear now that everyone is more aware of how much she has screwed up.
Not only that, this builds the Dems credibility for 2006.

[Generator]

18. My take:

He's a wonderful speaker. He's very handsome. He's incredibly smart. He's very electable. He's another Clinton. He's no hero-he's not going to have a career bucking the establishment.

Most of us would give our toenails to have Clinton back compared to Bush-but the point is, from everyone's outrage-being another Clinton is no longer enough to get rid of these people.

We need those that can risk all. History doesn't change by going along.

See my avatar.

Which only means-he can be a fine Senator-but his place in history is not going to be remembered for that as our country falls apart unless he becomes a little more hero like. And unfortunately, he is a new senator and he may have to go along-BUT THIS COUNTRY DOESN'T HAVE THE LUXURY of waiting.

I wish we did. I like him. I just don't think he realizes what evil he is up against. They think it's just a ideology-neo-con but it leads to evil, torture, and the unjustified killing of many. What would you call it?

It's time to realize that the Clinton days are over.

[JI7]

19. his first vote isn't going to be against another minority for a top level

position. especially when there is no way his vote would change the final outcome. in fact voting against her could end up being worse just because of the perception.

[faithfulcitizen]

20. exactly! nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Oh, brother. Talk about playing the race card to justify cowardice.

The "perception" of whom? What a specious apologia.

[JI7]

23. there is no cowardice

Obama did what was right.

[bpilgrim]

24. maybe, but there ARE profiles in COURAGE

the ones that history remembers and certainly hasn't displayed any, yet.

peace

[JI7]

26. courage has nothing to do with it

[bpilgrim]

28. oh, nevermind then

peace

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. So, you agree with Condaleeza?

You said that Obama would suffer because of the "perception" of his voting against a "minority". Do you have any of that?

He wimped out in favor of political expediency.

[JI7]

27. i'm sure he personally believes voting for her was the right thing to do

[bpilgrim]

29. swell

i'm sure that will make us all feel better, now :eyes:

peace

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. "Right" in what sense?

What was "right" with a vote for Secretary of State who believes that the USA has the right to invade and subjugate countries that won't bend over to it?

His lack of courage and conviction are evident. Either that or he just another opportunistic politician doing what he think's is going to keep his seat at the trough.

[hfojvt]

72. then I have to personally believe he is an ignorant idiot

Also, he is the one who could have provided cover for all of the white Democrats. They could all go on TV and say, "if this is a race issue, then why did Obama vote against her?"
By being either stupid or pragmatic, he has lost alot of the respect and affection I might otherwise have had for him. And I fail to see the pragmatism. He does not face re-election for six years and he has an apparently safe seat in our bluest of states.

[CAcyclist]

118. Very good point

I personally don't see at all why the Democrats are worried about the race card.

This is how you play it:

Dems vote against Rice and Gonzales

Repubs cry race

Dems turn around in indignant rage and point out the voter suppression in the minority districts and California's Prop 187 (guess what, the Repubs are going to try it again here in California to stop us issuing licenses to illegal aliens - the Republicans never, ever learn) , Republican opposition to affirmative action, etc,etc


This is our perfect opportunity to vehemently throw the race card back in the Republican arms right where it belongs and the Republicans are handing this opportunity on a platter and we cower instead.

On a ballot issue ,I once had my corporate opponents throw the race card my way and I went back and threw it back in their faces and we won.

Never take these things lying down when they are lies.

[journalist3072]

120. Race?!

Condi Rice's race has nothing to do with this matter, at all. She's incompetent, and she would still be incompetent whether she were White, Hispanic, or whatever.

She is not qualified to lead the State Department. She hasn't even learned her role as National Security Adviser!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. First vote, first sell out. What a guy.

Turns out the new golden boy is just another politician feeding at the trough.

[BiggJawn]

30. Him and Evan Bayh ought to get along just GREAT...

Barack wants into the DLC, don't he?

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Eating our Own

The Professor

[bpilgrim]

33. Criticizing our 'Own'

nother one of dem dare, ENTITLEMENTS, i believe... or have they suspended that as well ;->


peace

[ProfessorGAC]

46. Criticism Is Unproductive When Personal

It is also useless when someone (like several posters here) completely writes off a new Dem senator after one vote. That's not criticism. It's condemnation. Nothing will get better aftere that. He's been written off so why change?

I think we just have a different intepretation of "criticism".
The Professor

[bpilgrim]

74. we're criticizing a PUBLIC vote here, doc...

i predict this 'one vote' his very first will be long remembered to all our sorrows if history is to be any guide with the current administration.

i think dismissing ALL criticism as 'eating our own' is knee jerk and intellectually lazy.

peace

[ProfessorGAC]

82. I'm Not Against Criticism, bp.

The problem is that what is on this thread is eating our own. The criticism of one vote, about one person, who is already being dismissed as hopeless is the problem.

I would say that it is far more knee-jerk and intellectually lazy to simply write off a guy who was everyone's bright, shining hope, just 5 months ago over one source of disagreement.

Read the rest of this thread. There are plenty of final straw statements in here. Knowing how to work the system and knowing how to pick one's battles may be exactly what this party needs. Obama has made public statements about theocracies and civil liberties, so we know his philosophy.

Refusing to tilt at windmills is not a cause to write off a politician, after a single, and unwinnable, battle. To do so is the height of intellectual laziness.
The Professor

[prolesunited]

91. Stop making so much sense

It seems that's not allowed here any more. You're either with us or against us and there's no room for shades of gray or political nuance.

:hi:

[ProfessorGAC]

94. Sorry.

The Professor

[SmokingJacket]

93. I'm going to choose to agree with you here.

I'm disappointed too, but shit, man, we have NOTHING. Sitting around waiting for SuperDemocratPerson to fly out of the sky and save us hasn't worked.

I liked Obama before, and though I wish he hadn't softballed Rice and then vote as he did -- I'm not going to start crucifying him. His reasons are no doubt political, and while I don't understand them, I think he's a good enough guy to get the benefit of my doubt.

One thing that we might learn from the repubs is to stick by members of our party.

[bpilgrim]

99. "one vote, about one person" is one way of looking at it

another is that for 4 long years we haven't stood up against any of their most BLATANT crimes.

sorry, but it sounds like a perspective thing to me i view these people as WAR CRIMINALS and i care about what WORLD OPINION when it come to the nation i live in.

now, you got a point, he's a newbie but that ALONE does not discount the SERIOUSNESS of this vote.

and, doc... i am asking for a WHOLE LOT more than just TILTING.

peace

[hfojvt]

85. he was not supposed to have to change

He was already supposed to be one of the good guys. He was supposed to be a Rothlisburger, who would throw touchdown passes as a rookie. Instead one of his first passes when right to a safety on the other team when he had a wide open receiver. He was supposed to be a Michael Jordan or a Tiger Woods, but on his first fast break he missed the friggin dunk. It is not like he can be cut from the team. He will get other chances, but right now he looks like another Heisman trophy winner stumbling and fumbling in the big leagues. And this is not rocket science, or even professional football. We are talking about Rice here - a person with almost no competence and no integrity. It should not be a tough choice. Jerry Rice would be a better SOS.

[ProfessorGAC]

92. I Can't Disagree With You On Rice

However, there is very little precedent for refusing a prez his choice as SoS. It creates "obstructionist" waves that might be far worse than just playing along.

Besides, it wasn't like they were going to give the job to Bill Clinton if Rice wasn't confirmed. They would just have nominated another neocon. So, this is a matter of voting "aye" on the devil we know.
The Professor

[RandomKoolzip]

34. Yup. Thank you, professor.

Chiding the infant for not running marathons when he hasn't the faculties to even crawl yet.

[bpilgrim]

35. 12-12-00

so what r u saying, there are infants on capital hill?

peace

[RandomKoolzip]

38. You know what I meant.

Before Obama's even given a chance to govern in Washington, he's already a traitor. This circular firing squad has to stop somewhere, guys.

Remember: "Baby steps."

[bpilgrim]

39. 12-12-00

peace

[RandomKoolzip]

43. What is that? Witty? Are those your measurements?

Is "12-12-00" now considered a proper response to an unrelated topic?

It's been this way since before the 2000 selection, BTW. The Dems are having to adjust to the new game rules since Gingrich fucked everything up and flushed civility down the crapper.

If the newest Senator on the hill suddenly doesn't break out in shouted choruses of "J'ACCUSE!!!!!" he's a traitor, right?

[bpilgrim]

50. it's a date that will live in infamy

for me anyways and many DU'ers who have for 4 years chronicling this descent into imperialism.

the head of our country was SELECTED by the COURTS against our CONSTITUTION and against the wishes of the voters.

since then we have been WAITING and HOPING the dems would fight back and they continually APPEASE and ENABLE this CRIMINAL administration.

sorry, but YES the NEWEST and the OLDEST senators on the floor are going to be WATCHED and REPORTED on very closely at least on DU, anyways...

yall, might think this whole thing is a big joke but the people dying and being maimed certainly DON'T!

peace

[Just Me]

37. Agree. And quick to do so. *sigh* eom.

[bpilgrim]

48. we gotta stay on top of them if we REALLY want change

i EXPECT it to happen on the left BEFORE i expect it to happen on the right.

after every thing i've seen in the past 4 years, ESPECIALLY the failures, i'm CONVINCED it's time for CHANGE. and that WE must demand it before we can expect to see it, STARTING with OUR 'leaders'...

this false symp drama for the enablers and appeasers is wrongheaded imo and what has led us to this point.

nah, sorry, i for 1 ain't buy'n it no more, i am going to EXPECT and DEMAND better from all our reps. all the time.

these FREAKS are endorsing WAR CRIMINALS and TORTURES and most likely TRAITORS as well (911/SELECTION)

it's way beyond the time to STOP pretending this isn't as bad as we all know it IS and that BEGINS with speaking out AGAINST this behavior and direction and should be followed up with ACTION by our leaders but HOW can we ever expect that if we don't SPEAK UP

:shrug:

peace

[Just Me]

79. I would simply reserve personal assaults for the actual perpetrators.

I would also avoid rendering ultimate judgment of an individual's potential to wield corrective positive change on one decision which I view as something short of courageous or perfect.

I would prefer writing the potential "representative" an even-handed, informative letter concerning my own position because I believe it is more helpful in unifying our common cause.

I believe personal assaults and character assasination are useful and impactful if they are properly focused and utilized.

Peace back atcha'
:hippie:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. A not so tasty spoon of Jello.

He takes "Talk is cheap" to a new level of hypocrisy.

[Redleg]

36. Does this post have a point or are we supposed to guess?

EOM

[bpilgrim]

40. he endorsed WAR CRIMINAL condi rice for SOS - n/t

peace

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. he is new and cannot afford to be radical

the senate works like a gigantic frat house...newbies dont get to break into their own path till much later.

[RandomKoolzip]

45. Exactly.

He needs to earn some "capital" before he can spend it, to borrow a phrase from a certain ConnecticuTexan.

[JI7]

49. yes, we also have to remember his opponent was a nut case

with a more sane opponent the race could have been more competitive. although i'm sure he would have won in the end anyways.

but as you say, he still has to earn some "capital" first and at least show that he is willing to work with others .

and i thought he did pretty well in his first senate hearing with the questions he asked.

[RandomKoolzip]

57. Well, Jack Ryan was skidding even before he dropped out.

And he was the very best the Illinois GOP had to offer. I think most Illinoisians interpreted the GOP's transporting of Keyes into our state as a cynical ploy. I guess they thought the only reson why people liked Obama was because he's black, so they ran another black guy against him. Cynicism and racism so trransparent it's like cheesecloth. That was definitely a factor, but even against Ryan, Obama was in the lead.

And fer crissakes, this is the first major hearing as a senator Obama's been allowed to participate in. If he were to suddenly turn all fire and brimstone and angrily denounce Rice as Satan's right-hand gal, do you think he'd last long in Washington? His tone was even, his charisma was apparent, and he did NOT kiss ass; he stuck to the questions he had and let Biden and others who'd been there longer stick the knives in. Very wise.

Baby steps. (since some can just repeat "12-12-00" as an all-purpose retort, I can use the "Baby steps." meme)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

60. i agree

its easy for us to say he should be all fire and brimstone....but this is obama's career.

[bpilgrim]

51. what a world we all live in when it is considered 'RADICAL' to not support

WAR CRIMINALS and TORTURES :crazy:

peace

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. it is radical to not support a presidents cabinet member

[bpilgrim]

56. a WAR CRIMINAL and TORTURES cabinet member

:crazy:

peace

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. dont know why you sound so upset with me

its not like i sat around torturing people :eyes:

[bpilgrim]

63. enablers

and folks who condone the enabling upset me, sorry

peace

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. naivete over politics and politicians upset me...

:eyes:

[bpilgrim]

68. that's so 910

and a typical DLC elitist attitude, least it's on FULL display :toast:

peace

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. i belonged once to the elitists...and i understand the way things work

and i wont apologize for not being naive or for being knowledgeable.

[bpilgrim]

75. nk

:wow:

peace

[Wind Dancer]

52. Our country is in far worse shape than I can even absorb.

I guess "radical" now means voting for truth and against an illegal invasion. This endorses a member of *'s administration who has failed repeatedly but not been held accountable.

This is not an insult just another observation at how much trouble our nation is in.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. i still think its fairly radical to oppose cabinet members of the

president

[Wind Dancer]

73. I think this administration is "radical"!

Nothing will change until the Dems recognize the "radical" right wing ideology and confront it.

We can't continue to support the policies by voting "radical" cabinet members into office.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

80. i dont say that change should not be expected

but it should not only be obamas duty...get people like lieberman out of office adn we will have a FAR better chance of making real change...


all i am saying is give obama a change...he is VEry new...focus your anger on dems who have been in the senate for years and still havent found a spine

[Wind Dancer]

95. I apologize for not being clear.

I am not trying to single out Obama, my feeling applies to any Dem that endorses Rice, Gonzales and the like.

[Just Me]

81. Which is where we should be focusing our anger,...on the administration.

It is simply not productive and actually helpful to the RW every time we jump on the "character assassination" wagon.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

83. i think some dems are to blame as well

lieberman and miller being the ones i can think of right now...but not obama...thats just silly

[RandomKoolzip]

90. Thank you, JustMe.

I think it bears repeating that Karl Rove creams his jeans everytime we point the guns on each other rather than them.

[Wind Dancer]

98. Just Me, I am angry with this administration.

It's hard to endorse any candidate that refuses to acknowledge this illegal war and the right-wing's agenda regardless of party.

I will continue to support the Dems who speak out against those policies. We can't allow any politician to represent us who remain silent.

[Individualist]

122. Having integrity is radical?

:crazy:

[noamnety]

96. shoudn't be radical

to condemn torture.

Shouldn't be about "Obama's career." It's about "our future."

I'm not writing him off yet, because I know that even with the politicians I like most, I am never 100% in agreement with their votes. I did not like the IWR vote, but supported Kerry 100%.

But I do believe a vote to confirm Rice is a vote to retroactively affirm the Iraq war. For me it's a little worse than the IWR vote, in that it's made with the benefit of hindsight.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. So, better to join the fratboys who send the troops to kill?

How "practical" of him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. would you prefer that he never gets a single good bill passed

or that he is never re-elected just so that he says NAY to condi, and she still gets her cabinet post?

why are people so naive about how politicians work?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

102. I would prefer politicians who have ethics and stick to them.

And, how do you figure that he could never get a single "good" bill passed because of a "meaningless" vote? As you say, Condi will get confirmed anyway.

Unfortunately, I am not in the least naive about how politicians work. Most will do anything, say anything, abandon what few ethics they may have, to keep their seat at the trough. To all appearances Obama has joined the rest of the piggies.

[newsguyatl]

55. i posted here a few weeks ago

that obama would be another spineless democrat, like hillary clinton, and got flamed for it.

obama's out for himself, with his eyes on grander prizes.

he WON'T be a fighter, so don't expect it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. that can be said for any politician who ever aspires to higher office

adn has a shot in hell

[newsguyatl]

65. it can be sure.

but there can also be fighters, like wellstone, who care about the people.

obama's not one of them.

just because he's african american and good looking and "well spoken" and a fresh face, doesn't mean shit.

how he fights, what he stands for, that's what matters.

and my hopes about him aren't high.

[RandomKoolzip]

67. Right. And then the next time he does something you like,

he's our only hope, our very own Luke Skywalker.

Is there no middle ground? Are we actually expecting massive change to occur TODAY, RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!! It's not going to happen. The GOP turned the tide in their favor using a forty-year process, from the ground up. If you want change, become a city councilmember or run for mayor. Do it locally. Start a groundswell. Do it yourself. The guys in Washington have to follow protocol or they're out on their asses. It's just the way it is, and Obama's not a traitor for following the rules. We take baby steps for now, and build a movement, like they did.

Jeez, you guys are fickle.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

78. By "you" I was referring to all the Obama-haters on DU right now.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack, and I apologize if it was taken that way.

I just meant to back up a point that jpgray posted a couple weeks ago, about the way DU handles their representatives in Washington and the media. When they're playing the game and working within the rules, they're traitorous scumbags; and when they say a few things in the media denouncing Bush, all of a sudden they're our last saviors, and there's all sorts of posts about "Are the Dems finally growing spines?"

There never seems to be any middle ground in our reactions.

[Wat_Tyler]

88. LOL!

[Straight Shooter]

77. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps ...

I would prefer that he walk like a man.

[Tinoire]

62. Obama... Close your eyes when he talks. Forget he's Black

to get past the sad syndrome of "he speaks so well", and listen to the words.

Lots of Black people speak well, Condi, Powell, Harold Ford for instance, and because they spoke so well too many were willing to overlook too much. Chris Rock has a great parody about this.

Obama is as sharp and as charismatic as all hell but I'm afraid his words, so far, don't represent me. No more than Biden's words and Biden is every bit as charismatic as Obama.

[RandomKoolzip]

69. Key words: "so far."

He's been in Washington, what....two months? Three months?

[Tinoire]

84. Even before then.

The Black boards started watching him before DU had ever heard of him.

Like I said smart guy, handsome, charismatic but the beliefs aren't mine.

[Wind Dancer]

76. Excellent point, Tinoire.

I couldn't agree more.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

103. Well said. Hypocrisy isn't limited by color.

He's a "liberal" as long as it suits his purpose.

[clem_c_rock]

86. Well of course. Upper government = mafia

Do you thing this young man is going to sacrifice his career?

Unfortunately, my hero Mrs Boxer, will face some reprecussions somewhere down the line

[KamaAina]

87. See, that's the whole thing about Barack.

Ripping people's heads off -- even Condi Rice's -- just isn't his style. (It would have been interesting to see what came out of the stalk, though. :-) )

Remember, though he represents Illinois (when are the "Land of Obama" license plates coming out? :-) ), he was born and raised here in Hawai'i, where ripping people's heads off isn't really anyone's style. Actually, that a big part of his broad appeal: in this era filled with partisan sniping, Barack manages to appear statesmanlike and "above the fray" merely by not making his politics personal.

Is that the way I'd do it? Um, no, but then again, I'm not really from here (a little over four years); you can take the boy out of NYC, but...

[ArkDem]

97. Obama Bin Bought

[earth mom]

105. LMAO-That's what I've been thinking! n/t

[Pastiche423]

100. Wow, great start, Obama!

Right out of the gate, you vote to kiss illegal warmongering, torture promoting, repug ass!

The kind of Dem we've all been waiting breathlessly for! :eyes:

To those that apologize for his vote, saying he's a newbie and that it would be considered radical had he voted no -

Why do you condone the death and torture that the BFEE and it's followers has rained down on thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis?

Are you saying that political correctness trumps all? Have you no human compassion for our fellow human beings?

This is no fucking game, people!

[geomon666]

104. His vote doesn't surprise me.

After that nice pretty speech he gave on the 6th and then voted with the rethugs the writing was on the wall. Seriously, how can people defend his decision after even Kerry voted No for this criminal? But don't worry folks, you just keep baby stepping along.

[Berserker]

110. When you want to win

at a fight and yes this is a fight. You don't come out kissing your opponents ass you go for the throat. He is new excuse don't work. He should have kept up the with same fire he had at the convention.

[MichaelTheCat]

112. Don't be too quick to judge...

I don't care how Machievellian he is. I want him to do everything he has to do to position him well for the '08 nomination, and if he saw some good reason to vote this way, more power to him.

[Malva Zebrina]

114. this is what happens when you assign hero status

to a man like Obama. He may be a good man, or may not be a good man. He was touted here on DU as if he were a saint, rather than a human being. This is what happens when magical thinking takes over and this man, Obama, was considered a "saviour"

That kind of stuff that so often goes on here, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It is not so mature or admirable to jump on any bandwagon without thinking, for the sake of the emotional jolt it gives one and for the sake of "supporting" a candidate, or anyone, for that matter.

I heard Randi Rhodes interview him after the election. He said in effect we should get over it and forgedda bout it. I knew then, he was hooked and is not some great big hero or saviour and is not about to jeapardize his career and that is after all, what they all worry about the most in the hallowed halls of Congress.

[bpilgrim]

116. that was the MARKETING blitz from the DNC

yeah, i've yet to be impressed with this young senator and being a man of color he certainly has big shoes to fill as minorities have always been at the front lines for LAW-n-ORDER and CIVIL RIGHTS.

he's not off to a good start on this historic FIRST VOTE.

peace