E-mail from my sister on Dean

[Stuckinthebush]

You should go on AOL today and look at the picture they have of Bush. The way it was taken really shows a lot of how the man probably really is...shifty.

Saw Dean this morning on Today. My only problem with him is he is so angry and defensive. For those of us that don't know him yet, he comes off a little scary. I think if you had not said he was your man, I would have tuned him out.


First, my sister is apolitical and I think she may have voted for Bush although she won't tell me because I will tear her a new one (and she knows it!).

Now, this e-mail said two things to me. She represents the great middle of our country in that she probably voted for Bush but has not been paying attention to all of his crap these past three years. This being said, for her to say he looks shifty and that is probably how he really is, might be telling. If my sister is saying this, then I know a lot of swing voters are saying this.

Next, she stabs me in the heart by saying that Dean came off as scary on the Today show. I shot back an e-mail and called her about this. I told her to keep watching him, and that he was appealing to the base, etc. etc. But I became worried. I am a Dean supporter, but is he coming off a little to angry for the non-base? And not just Dean, but others in the field? I know that we are angry as hell - and I told her that if she wasn't that she wasn't paying attention! She laughed and said I was probably correct, but that people get turned off by too much negativity even if there is a reason for it.

This conversation didn't make my day.

Thoughts about Dean and the rest of the field coming off as too angry for the swing voters?

[Patriot_Spear]

1. From everything I've read- this will not be a swing-vote election

...it'll be about mobilizing the party faithful- Bush's* record has basically cost him the majority of swing votes anyway, those folks vote their wallet.

[Stuckinthebush]

3. Probably right...

Even in my sister's case, she doesn't have much of a choice. She can either vote for the Dem or not vote. I don't think she will willfully vote for Bush again. Either way, this helps us.

[unfrigginreal]

14. I think that you've got it right...

It will be a fired up Democratic base against a demoralized Republican base...guess what...we WIN!

[enlightenment]

23. 1st post ever -- please explain "Swing voter"

Forgive me if I commit a newbie faux pax. I'm a long time reader (that doesn't make me a "lurker" does it? sounds like a stalker ...) but I've never written to any message board, ever! That said -- could someone please tell me what is meant by "swing voter?" I have been a registered "unaffiliated" since 1975, because I like keeping my options open. The important thing to me is that I retain my ability to stand free from party politics -- even as my personal politics remain strongly liberal in nature. Over the years, I have voted for a "non" Democrat or two (not necessarily a Republican) based on what I learned about them as politicians and how their presumed policies fit with my concept of the world.
My understanding of my position is that I am a "swing" voter -- but I don't vote with "my wallet" nor do I wait to see which way the "crowd" votes. Frankly, reading the posts in this thread, a "swing voter" sounds more like a complete idiot than a rational thinker. I don't THINK I'm one of those . . . please enlighten me.
Many thanks.

[Stuckinthebush]

24. No, no...

Swing voters are not considered to be idiots (for the most part), but that they are not part of the base so need to be engaged to win. The base of both parties is around 34% of the voters. That leaves almost a third of voters as swing voters. People like yourself who don't vote party, but issues. In the primaries, traditionally the candidates try to appeal to their base because these are the people who will nominate them. Once this happens, the swing voters are of interest (as well as the base).

In this case, I am asking if Dean or others make the swing group nervous with his or their anger towards Bush. While this anger is very comforting to the base, the swing (like my sister) may interpret it as being nasty.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi enlightenment!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Ellen Forradalom]

63. Welcome to DU enlightenment!

:hi:

[w13rd0]

2. I'm angry...really angry...

...and if the "swing voters" opt to actually pay attention to what is going on, they'll be angry as well. Reason they aren't angry is because they've been swallowing the corporate media poison for several years now...

[Stuckinthebush]

4. I told her that as well

I think that as more of the non-engaged voters pay attention to the debates and discussions, they will start waking up.

I hope so.

[styersc]

12. I have supported Kerry because I believe he is the most electable-

but have been happy by Dean's campaign as I believe he is forcing a debate on important issues.

Had Dean not come out in favor of raising taxes on the middle class and low income tax payers he would have had a shot with me (and the country)- but to demand higher taxes of those who can afford it the least while trying to survive the effects of Bush economy is a sure fire way to give Bush 4 more years.

[Demobrat]

19. Repealing tax cuts they never saw

is not raising taxes on the middle and lower classes. Unless of course, you're a Repuke.

[styersc]

25. Ignorance is running wild today.

When you take a pay check and take more out of it on one day then you did the day before then the taxes have been raised.

Bush was forced to include to middle and low income workers in his tax cut plan. He was forced by a rare demonstration of Democratic unity and public outcry.

Now Dean wants to show more arrogance then even the Bush admin and turn back the clock on the tax relief that the left was able to secure for our constituents. Kerry is right that the tax cuts should be repealed on the top end but the middle and low end need all the help they can get due to Bush's economic incompetence.

You can spin it all you want but at the end of the day, under Dean, the poor and middle class have less in their pay envelopes then they would under Kerry.

[Larkspur]

26. I'm middle class and didn't see a reduction in my taxes, but

my property and state taxes are increasing to make up for Bush's tax cuts, which cut funding to states and localities.

Kerry's argument that repealing all of Bush's tax cuts hurts the middle class is pure B.S.. He completely ignores that not every middle class person got tax cuts and that those tax cuts are causing most states and localities to raise their taxes, which will eat up Bush's tax cuts and then some.

Bush's tax cuts were aimed at the Ken Lays, not John and Jane Q Public.

[styersc]

27. Well if you recieved no tax cut-

how will Dean raise revenues by repealing the tax cuts? Both Kerry and Dean want to repeal tax cuts for the rich but Dean wants to repeal tax relief on the middle class and poor. If they (we) have recieved not tax cut (my tax cut was $2.25 every two weeks), then how is repealing this tax break going to raise $.

[vision]

32. My tax cut is about $3 every two weeks

I am willing to give up my $3 if Bush has to give up his $100,000+

A fair trade IMO.

[Larkspur]

34. The tax cuts were geared for the upper 1% tax brackets, not

for you and me.

By repealing them Dean will get a start on reducing the bleeding. Yes, I think that somewhere along the line either taxes will have to increase or a new source of revenues will have to be found to balance the budget. Bush has screwed this country royally.

[AP]

35. That's because states are run by the same right wing, regressive

taxation devotees which run the federal government.

Having progressivity in the federal tax code, as Kerry wants, and Dean doesn't care to address, DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY RESULT IN REGRESSIVE STATE AND LOCAL TAX CODES.

We need to make the federal tax code more progressive, as Kerry advises, AND we need to make state and local taxes more progressive.

This spin is such utter bullshit. If I were a regressive tax devotee, I'd be orgasming over reading on a Democratic board that we shouldn't want a progressive federal tax code because it will result in higher local taxes.

Man is that stupid. You have to fight for progressive taxes at ALL LEVELS.

[Demobrat]

28. You mean that extra $7.50 a week in my paycheck

that I'll be putting towards the increase in my property taxes? I'm middle class, and the "tax cut" has been a net loss for me so far. Somehow I don't think I'm alone. And I think Dean's right when he says that most people will be willing to give back their $2 a week in exchange for affordable health care. I know I will, even though my "tax cut" was almost four times that.

[AP]

33. That's how you're going to tell them to vote for Dean? Tell them

they're stupid sheep?

That'll work.

[madfloridian]

5. Your sister should be really really angry, too. Dean is right to be angry

I know all of our neighbors are in this conservative area. Maybe she is scared and upset and won't let you know it.

[CWebster]

6. Swing voters follow the crowd.

Those who are paying attention start the wheels rolling.

[burrowowl]

7. She is probably

frigthened because she is not used to loyal opposition. She thinks legitimate criticism is bad-mouthing.
A lot of people are probably in denial right now as to how bad our gov't can be, we are always the 'good guys'.

[Stuckinthebush]

9. Cognitive dissonance

Yep...I can see that a lot of voters who gave Bush the nod in 2000 may be suffering some level of cognitive dissonance.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Angry? Yes.

Too angry? Is that possible?

[Adamocrat]

10. What do people want?

I like a politician with fire in his belly. Do these people want someone who is going to tell them what they want to hear, or do they want the truth?

Truth is... Bush is scum of the earth. He is a coward. He is a moron. He is the worst thing to ever happen to America. There's no soft sell for those facts.

Maybe Bill Maher is right!?! Maybe America is too soft!?! ACK! I think our whole country needs to go into some sort of huge group therapy program. There's obviously something wrong here.

Right Wingers say the most heinous things about queers, but they're never called on it for being "angry". Yet, when a Democratic candidate speaks with intensity, he's "angry" or "negative". Do they not see the hypocrisy?

As for family members who voted for Bush, well, I refuse to speak to anyone in my family who voted for that scum unless they're willing to vow not to do it in 2004. I'm not going to associate with the people who actively contribute to those who hate me, and want to see people like me exterminated.

My sympathies!

Cheers,
ADAM

[GainesT1958]

11. It's good to keep an open mind...

Even as a dedicated supporter of Dr. Dean--as you obviously are. Remember, to some who have not seen a lot of him before, or haven't seen him before period, he DOES seem a bit defensive and CAN be a bit brusque in answering some questions that irk him. That IS a trait he has, and some may be turned off by it. Others may see it as part of his "fighting mad spirit", and think it's a good trait to have going up against Dub's machine.

Still, I can't help but wish he'd tone that down a bit, especially when it's the average voter who's just asking him a question...their only "problem" is they just want to know what he thinks...fair game for a guy who wants to be president, right? :eyes:

I think a lot of the guy--though I haven't settled on a candidate yet. But I can understand how an "objective" viewer, like your sister, could be struck in that way by his demeanor. In his own way, he needs to "open up" a bit. If he can do that, I think even you will be astounded at just how many more people start to attend those Meet-Ups of his! :D

B-)

[Gin]

15. I would rather have an angry look...than have a smile on the face

of the man who stabs you in the back while smiling...his initials are
GWB

[Stuckinthebush]

20. It is an interesting election season already

Traditionally, the angry partisan tones play well with the base, and that is why you get this sort of message from candidates during the primary season. But, then as the general election rolls around the tone is moderated. I wonder if more people are tuning into the primary this year because of their discomfort with Bush. This would mean that our candidates need to keep the anger, but use it in a positive way so that it speaks to not just the base but also the swing voters.

[gully]

13. Deans anger is mobilizing him and others...

He is using his anger in a positive way. He has a right to be angry, as do we. That's what I'll tell people should they ask ;)

[Stuckinthebush]

16. That's good...

I'll use that.

[Gin]

22. Right on...it is being used in a positive way....thanks gully...

anger is a good thing when used to make positive changes.

We have a lot to be angry about.

[quinnox]

17. I can see why

your sister would have that impression. Dean will have to moderate his message and anger thing if he wants to win. People in general like positive optimistic messages, not angry negative ones.

[CWebster]

18. his anger

is the reason for optimism.

[bpilgrim]

21. It is an EXCELLENT point and why we must use HUMOR to 'vent' instead...

if need to react to personal attacks and are legitamitely angry, moore and frankin (political jujitsu) are great examples of this, imo.

politicians must be all 'bright skys and sunshine' - as much as possible in teeVee land, just like they (the media) try to feign.

they have to learn to recognize every opprotunity to REVEAL another bush atrocity especially when responding to any attack and therefore be 'pleased' emotionaly when they react, not to mention the likelyhood to follow up with their 'REMEDY' to the bush radicalism, if they give you that much time - potential combination punch, very effective

must think nice BONUS and smile, then answer the question you wished you had been asked ;->

peace

[AP]

38. You just described FDR, JFK, and Clinton. It's a winning strategy

...

[Woodstock]

45. Interesting - it is quite the game, isn't it?

And the public feeds it and keeps it going without even realizing they are doing so.

[janx]

29. Dean is very matter-of-fact. He can be hysterically funny at times.

The spin is that he has nothing but anger to offer, but that's just spin. He does make a formidable opponent, though, because his brains are very evident when he talks about almost anything. (This is in stark contrast to the deer-in-the-headlights speeches that Chimpy makes.) I think some people, hearing the "anger" spin, look at how formidable he is and make the mistake of believing that's true...especially those who voted for Bush.

I mean, of course he's angry. A lot of people are angry because of what Bush has done. But he's by no means always angry--or anything even close to that.

[Woodstock]

46. Lordy, it makes you happy you aren't in his shoes, eh?

Imagine having everyone read you this way and that. And you're just a guy who is good at running things and wants to make the country better.

This has got to be the toughest of all ages for public figures. Although, interestingly, reading things Lincoln wrote, he put up with a lot even without 24/7 cable news channels.

[janx]

62. Yeah, he is taking the heat from all sides now, and it's only

going to get worse. But he has a magnificent campaign staff to back him up and to enable him to enjoy the process. (And then he has a lot of supporters, too.)

[Eloriel]

31. I saw the interview with Matt Lauer

and true to form, Dean is just stiff in so many of those brief interviews, and also has a tendency to stiffness in debates. I wish to hell he'd remember to smile more, because he's got THE best smile going. It lights up the whole room and then some.

Tell her to catch one of his stump speeches before she writes him off as "angry." I think there are things to be angry about, but also, Dean is a deadly serious sorta guy.

And tell her to read his June 23 Announcement Speech. Or watch it, if she can do the video thing. It's an amazing speech. He's really an engaging, charismatic guy, just not in these brief interviews and less so also in debates.

:shrug:

Eloriel

[grasswire]

36. would she have thought...

...Dean was angry if she had not heard some punditry describe him as angry? Or heard someone who listens to Rush describe him as angry?

That IS the Republican talking point about Dean.

[Stuckinthebush]

39. Good suggestions

I did tell her to go to his web site and watch the videos. I hope she does.

As for his smile, I think he has a good smile when he doesn't force it. When he forces it, it looks a little strange sometimes.

[AP]

37. Your sister's sentiments explain why FDR wasn't angry.

It baffles me that so many people don't understand this -- if you want to fight fascism like Bush's, look to the last time in America when the fascists were on the ascendancy and beaten back by a Democrat -- it was FDR.

FDR did not run on anger. In fact, it was the opposite. No matter how bad things are, anger and fear polarize people and alienate the middle. It also concedes some important ground -- ie, that there really is something to fear -- which works to the advantage of the fascists.

The Democrats need an FDR strategy to beat Bush.

[Stuckinthebush]

40. Yes - an FDR strategy would be wonderful

But, how do you energize your base that is mad as hell and wants to see someone full of anger, without upsetting the swing voters? I think that Dean climbed so fast because his anger appealed to the base. We wanted to see someone tell the truth and point to the naked little prince and say, "LOOK!"

But the swing doesn't want that. What does a 21st century candidate do?

[AP]

41. You make them study FDR's presidency until they come to their senses.

I'm sure extreme left wingers hated FDR, and thought he was too moderate. (I heard a right winger say once that the left wingers hated Roosevelt, so he made his wife act like a communist against her will so that they'd stay in his camp -- what he was doing was trying to counter spin ER's obvious sincerity and dedication to her causes, like civil rights...as if nobody could have been that anti-racist in 1930 unless it was part of some liberal ploy to confuse people to vote for Democrats.)

I think, in retrospect, you'd have to say that nobody but FDR probably could have saved America. And left wingers today have to look back and ask themselves what they would have done then, and whether they'd do the same knowing what they know now about history.

[stickdog]

52. No. There is a time and a place for TRUE ANGER in electoral politics.

The time is NOW. And the place is Bush's Amerikkka.

The media has given the boy king a free ride.

The supposed Democratic opposition has given the boy king a free ride.

The only reason Dubya's popularity is dropping is because a few brave souls -- Dean being one -- had the guts to let their anger out and tell it like it is.

Dean is a Democratic doctor from Vermont who crusades for universal healthcare and a balanced budget. There is NOTHING scary about that.

His unique appeal is in his toughness and bluntness.

[Julien Sorel]

42. I'm happy a disinterested voice is saying the same thing

I've been saying for weeks now. Dean's 'I'm as mad as hell' act appeals to angry Democrats, but that's a tiny percentage of the overall electorate. I see a lot of good stuff in Dean, but I also see a lot of problems that his supporters ignore, or gloss over by saying he transcneds them, he's a new kind of politician running a new kind of campaign, other people 'just don't get it ' (isn't the point of a campaign to make other people 'get it'???), and a wide variety of other devices that amount to nothing more than denial.

There is no such thing as a 'new kind of politician.' Dean's campaign is borrowed, almost chapter and verse, from McCain's in 2000, that includes the use of the internet to raise money. McCain was, if you'll recall, beaten. It isn't new, and in fact, there's really no such thing as new -- except for the technology, it's all been done before.

Dean is a politician, just like the rest. He has strengths and weaknesses, and like all of us, one of his biggest strengths cuts both ways. If he gets out there and has to deliver something other than his angry man persona, he might be in trouble. I've seen him in two forum/debate situations, where he had to check the anger at the door, and he was absolutely ordinary. Ordinary might cut it against a flailing and demoralized Bush, but then again, it might not, and of course, Bush might right himself and actually put up a fight. There's lots of time between now and an actual election.

[AP]

43. Actually, I think he's modeling himself on Jerry Brown...

...who was (and is, as mayor of Oakland) not a real liberal. Brown ran as a far left winger against Clinton. He served one major function though. He convinced moderates that Clinton wasn't the socialist that Bush might have otherwise painted him (what with his transferring the bond-issuing business to a public body and all, and his trips to red square).

[Julien Sorel]

47. I'm actually talking about the mechanics and form

of the campaign. Using the internet to raise money, positioning yourself as the angry outsider, the anti-establishment candidate -- those were the hallmarks of McCain's 'insurgent' campaign. Remember, for example, that McCain challenged the Republican heirarchy with his focus on campaign finance reform, and Dean has picked a fight with the DLC.

I suppose this makes me a Dean heretic, and I will be burned at the stake for claiming everything about Dean isn't unique, fresh, and wonderful.

[Clark Can WIN]

49. Billy, I like your addition to your graphic

you photoshop freak you :pals:

[Woodstock]

44. Three swing voters I know are disenchanted by Bush

and will not vote for him. They are ready to vote for the Democratic candidate. The mistake to make would be to underestimate Bush's unpopularity. The very reason Dean appeals to most people is because he challenges Bush.

I like to challenge labels. For instance, Dean is "angry." In the past he has been tagged as only appealing to young white men. Both of these things are not true and I like to challenge them when I see people perpetuating them (knowingly, or unknowingly.) My point is, did your sister at any time get the message Dean is angry from the media, and subconsiously internalize it (and then pass it along to you)? It's worth thinking about.

[Clark Can WIN]

50. You bring up some good points woodstock

and they are worth considering, however, will it matter ultimately how she arrived at that perception? What will matter most is... that IS her perception, and the perception of millions like her.

As soon as you are forced to expend your campaign energy against a "perception" you turn into Bush Sr. eating pork rinds and going to the supermarket. In other words, you are not fighting for your issues, you are defending your perception.

[Woodstock]

58. All the more reason not to fight it

But just to keep on with the message. Dean's obviously been doing pretty well in spite of the labels. I didn't mention it, but all three of the guys above like Dean, and one has volunteered for his campaign.

Kind of like Al Gore's following Bush around the stage during that debate - God knows what perception they were trying to counter. It backfired. Then when Gore emerged last year he was himself - and that was far more effective.

BTW, in this case we are talking about Dean. But labels apply to any candidate. Dean is getting extra heat as the frontrunner, however.

[Clark Can WIN]

48. I think it was very Noble of you to post with such honesty

I love 99.8% of what Dean has to say myself but his campaign is an entity feeding off of anger. This is troubling to me, not because I don't believe the anger is justified because it sure as hell is and I feel it intensely myself. This is troubling to me because while I believe that the anger and the energy of the Dean campaign will win him the primaries if Clark does not run, it will also lose him the general election in the long race. God knows I don't want it to go down that way, I'd be happy to tune into President Dean's innauguration party but I truly fear it would never come.

People like your sister are highly representative of much of America. People like my own mother who bought the republican bullshit that Democrats were only going to suck up everyones money and waste it. :puke: (Who's tearing through the family wallet now?) The next big sell they have on the block is this: Democrats won't keep you safe like we will. For Mr. and Ms. "don't bother me, the new Survivor 12, Wahoo Nebraska, is on" it's going to take something else they can feel warm and cozy about to knock them out of their myopic comas. Dean will be a little scary to these people. That is why Clark has to run.

As one honest and decent poster, to someone who really does love your guy, do you believe that Dean would accept VP to Clark? Just a question.

[stickdog]

53. Why would you think somebody who comes across like a professor

would keep you "safer" than someone who comes across like a street fighter?

[AP]

55. Because you rarely get in a street fight when you're with a professor

And hanging out with street fighters sounds like an evening in which you're more like to end up with blood on your collar.

[Woodstock]

59. "An entity feeding off anger" is a mischaracterization

that I must challenge.

I just met Dean last night - in person he comes off as a calm, peaceful, capable, kind man - but I'd already seen that in him. On TV, that impression was layered with the impression of someone who is willing to fight for what is right, who has passion and energy, and who isn't willing to just play nice with the Republicans (which I've sensed in some of the other candidates.)

OK, but that's just me.

Explain then why he's first in NH, Iowa, and the nation among Democrats (recent Zogby poll) - is Dean "scary" to these people? If so, maybe they like "scary." An independent I know who writes on policy for a highly respected organization picked Dean to support out of all the candidates. Maybe he likes "scary" too?

The people who use terms like "scary" are going to take the safe route. But I think there are a lot of us around who feel the candidate to take on Bush sucessfully needs FIRE.

[Stuckinthebush]

60. Survivor in Wahoo! Now that's TV!

I think my original post was honest in that I, like many of you, want to win this thing. There is a sense of utter urgency in me that we get the Bush cabal out because I fear for my country. Yes, I do have a horse in this race, but I like all of these horses. I respect the hell out of each of them for standing up, taking the shots, and getting hit in the press. To have nine Democrats say, "I can beat that asshole" makes me proud to be a Democrat. I love to see them all on the stage making the arguments that we have made here for 2 and 1/2 years.

I will point out when my horse is being unfairly hit by those on DU, I will defend those that honestly say Dean has flaws, and I will be honest with myself on Dean's vulnerabilities. I hope we all do that with whichever candidate we decide to back. In the end, I know one thing - I'll mark the little box next to the (D) for president.

Now to your question about VP. I don't know if Dean would do that. I'd like to think he would because I believe that he feels so strongly about working to make our country better, that he would feel an obligation to work with the eventual candidate in that manner. He has said that he will work to get the eventual nominee elected, and I believe that.

I think that there is a personality trait in anyone who runs for president - they are all somewhat narcisistic. Bush is a great example of massive narcisism, but I think there is a little in all of them. It is very, very difficult for a narcisist to take the back seat. That is what a VP has to do. I would hope that Clark and Dean are both strong enough in their sense of self that they can take that back seat for the good of the country. We'll see.

[E_Zapata]

51. More than a few honest friends tell me:

"You need to get away from this stuff. You really need to enjoy life more. You really shouldn't take this stuff so seriously -- you are losing your youthful zest for life - and sense of humor."

My friends are right. I do seem obsessed. But I think I am looking at reality squarely. The only way to turn this off is to be in denial. I think I am also angry at the apoliticals out there. Because if - and it is a huge IF - we get rid of this fascist regime, it will be a miracle. I resent carrying the weight for the people who don't care enough to save their own asses (esp knowing that IF everyone cared to care and be aware, this nightmare would be snuffed out much faster).

If we all got lives - how much of the flood waters of fascism would there be today? I tend to think that we have at least hedged some of horrors that could have been just by being conscious and aware.

A big dilemma. Is it worth it? Would the higher spirit suggest that we just let the dam go? I do believe that God put us on this earth with the best of intentions: to drink in the beauty and the love. Can't recall the last time I did that.

Could the solution be that we need to let it all go to hell so that this diseased society/govt can work its way out of our lives for good? Maybe Watergate just put a lid on such governmental parasitic activity and it festered and grew?

----- good topic; needs to be explored.

As for Dean's aura - I can't comment. I don't support him. But I understand exactly where he is coming from, so I have no perspective on how he comes across to an average american who is only slightly curious.

[JNelson6563]

54. anyone who has a grasp

of our current situation and how we got here should be angry.

Julie

[Ripley]

56. B.S.

If you can't handle Dean or any other Dem being really angry at what has happened to America in the last three years then you need to go back to your Prozac and soap operas.

Americans RESPECT anger when it is rightfully applied. Look at Smirk. When he is foaming at the mouth, screaming lunatic cliches like "he gassed his own people" he gets his loudest cheers. Why do you think the Dems should just speak softly and get the shit kicked out of them one more time?

No more timidity or we will lose big time.

(on edit: did not mean to imply I respect Smirk, but that his supporters do)

[robbedvoter]

57. I am political and angry and not bery happy with his way

of showing his anger. I went to the NYC rally - trully open minded and ready to give him a shot. I was awed by the organization. I was underwhelmed by his speech.
My full conversion to Clark happened after that (and partly because of it + NRA).
I always have this mixed reaction to his speeches. They usually look much better on paper than from his mouth.
Ex: someone posted what he said campaigning for Davis - I was impressed. Then I watched him saying it - when he said "It's not about Davis's record" it sounded to me like "sure, Gore may be stiff, but..." - a non-defense defense. The tone implied: "he may be shitty, but....
Clark delivers deadly blows calmly ans sweetly ("nice uniform - many wore it with honor" or "what may sound good in Texas doesn't necessarily sound good in the rest of the world"). More effective, inspiring, voters attractive.
I am just describing my personal process of picking a candidate here. The perceptions of a very angry Democrat.

[Capn Sunshine]

61. NRA influenced you to back Clark?

Is that what you're saying? You think Clark, who has a gun in his tool kit, is better on the gun issue?
No comprendo.