Why Democrats ARE a JOKE.

[oc2002]

For all the bark, most Dems on the committee voted to confirm her. Oh, they will debate, debate and more debate. But when the moment of trueth arives, they tuck their little tails between thier legs and bow to the Republicans.

What a joke. Jokes on us, I suppose.

At least its one thing I admire about the Republicans, they stick to thier guns and have some balls.

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=565

Despite some reservations, six Democrats voted for Rice’s confirmation on the committee: Sen. Joseph Biden(DE), Sen. Paul Sarbanes (MD), Sen. Christopher Dodd (CT), Sen. Russ Feingold (WI), Sen. Bill Nelson (FL) and Sen. Barak Obama (IL). Rice was approved by the committee 16-2.

[Mend]

1. sadly, I totally agree

the real cause of my pessimism is not that we lost, but that we don 't fight, or we act repuke-lite, so that in the end we will completely disappear. I am feeling pretty hopeless. A strong, vigorous, united Democratic voice would be better than this kow-towing shit.

[ErinGoBraghLess]

27. Pragmatism wins

I think there is a larger point people are missing. The real reason Condi will be confirmed is because the Dems know that power is cyclical. In a few years, it may be a Dem in the White House and then it will be a Dem nominee for SOS. If the Dems vote down Condi now, they know it may bite them in the ass when it's their turn. It's all about watching each other's back, not about voting their gut. That's the problem with an entrenched two-party system. They protect each other. There could be a video of Condi doing a Monica on Bush and some folks would turn a blind eye.

[MadHound]

2. Sad to say, they aren't a joke

At least not one that people are laughing at. The Democrats, supposedly, historically the party of the people, are now more concerned with following the wishes of their masters, corporate America. The only thing that they do for the rest of us is to pay lip service and throw a few bones our way.

It time for real change in this country, yet the Democrats have proven time and again that they won't provide this. Their movement ever rightward, their addiction to corporate cash precludes any measures of real change coming from the Dems. It is time to put our support behind a party that works for the people, not against them.

[leftyandproud]

8. It really is time for a new party.

We have no other option.

[Township75]

3. It's amazing...

with how much bitching and moaning there is on DU regarding Dems not standing-up for us and against the Repubs, there will be unwavering support to run Obama or Clinton in 2008...both of which haven't been with us, except in words only.

I am curious how much support Boxer gets for a nomination in 2008. She was with us by voting against the IWR, was with us against the election fraud, and was with us against Rice.

[MadHound]

5. Not from myself, and not from a lot of other former Dems I know

There is a quiet movement afoot, and it will start showing up in '06. Democrats, burned by the spinelessness of the party for the past four years, discouraged with Clinton's reign as 'Pug lite, are either dropping out of politics completely, or going Green. Yes, the '04 campaign managed to pull together a coalition around ABB, but that was only because these people saw Bush as a huge threat. With the way that Kerry went out with a whimper, without a protest about Ohio until it was too late, many former, very active Dems are leaving.

It is sad that the two third party candidates, Cobb of the Greens, and Nader, were the first one to start agitating for recounts in various questionable states, including Ohio. It is sad that the Dems in Congress are simply bending over for the neocons corporate agenda. More and more people around the country are starting to wake up to the reality of the two party/same corporate master system of government that we are now living with. I think that history is going to look back at this time period, and point to it as the time when the Democratic party began it's trip to the dustbin of history.

Boxer and Hilary may get support from the remaining Dems in '08, but it is a sure loser. They won't get the numbers needed for a win, for many Dems will have gone Green, and will be building the party for a serious run of their own.

[Township75]

13. Don't blame you, and might join you.

.

[Lexus Liberal]

32. Is something always better than nothing,

I agree with you, but I think most of those you speak of will drop out of politics all together. Start voting less. Most who go green or third party don't stick with it that long. Right now I think Dean's DNC chairmanship might be the only thing to slow or stop this.

[G_j]

9. no doubt

Boxer would be tagged "unelectable", "fringe" or "too left" before even getting out of the starting gate.

[Carolina]

33. not so fast

I think many of us here at DU are truly, irrevocably fed up NOW. I came here in 2001 shortly after the 2000 selection and I've been pissed with the Wimpocrats over so much that I gave up on the party and gave only to a few candidates (in whom I truly believed) in 2002, and to Clark and Dean in 2004.

I never liked Kerry after his IWR vote and knew it would weaken him but nonethless I joined the Kerry bandwagon late in the game because I had no other choice.

But NEVER AGAIN. No fucking way will I support him or the likes of Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, etc. who are guaranteed national losers. I won't aid or abet anyone else who continues to support corporate-loving, repuke-like policies. And the DNC can go to hell.

many of us at DU recognize NOW that our money and energy is better spent ONLY on the candidates we truly believe in, on alternative media and outlets like DU and on causes that do the work for the people that our bought-and-paid-for politicians have abandoned.

[Township75]

51. You will speak for me...

if the next Dem Pres candidate is Clinton, or Kerry, or Obama, but I am not sure if the rest of Dem voters will care. I would like to think they do, but I doubt they do.

I think Clinton will get the nod in 08 if she runs, because she and her husband bring in all the donations for the party. As a result, the party members will support her. Also, a lot of people will vote for the candidate will all of the media glory and flash, like Obama. While I think he has potential to be a star, he hasnt done jack-squat to be considered as a Pres or even VP...think about it, why should he jump in front of everyone else who has been in politics longer.

I hope Dean gets the chair, and straightens this BS out.

[burythehatchet]

4. my guess?

I'd guess we'll see more than one swinging dick here on this great coronation day.

[txaslftist]

6. Could you think of a title that was more flamebait?

Like "Why I'm leaving the democratic party."
or "Why You All Suck"
"Democrats eat puppies"

Thanks for the flamebait AND the defeatism. Very helpful.

[oc2002]

7. yeah. oh even Jon Stewart pointed this one out on his show.....

....which I have to hand it to him, is what you need to know about the party your supporting.

[Carolina]

34. exactly: a moment of rebellion

a lifetime of capitulation!

[Dangerman]

10. I don't trust Democrats...

As long as they kiss the asses of them repukes and GWB!

[OneBlueSky]

11. "a moment of resistance, a lifetime of capitulation" (J. Stewart) n/t

.

[oasis]

12. No automatic confirmation. The DEMOCRATS are insisting on a senate debate

before confirmation.

[cags]

14. Yeah, but they are just wasting everyones time if they know in the end

that they are just going to vote for her anyway.

[oc2002]

18. how pathetic and sad though.

nt.

[oasis]

19. The half-truths and lies of the most secretive administration in history

will be put on public record. That is not a waste of time.

[cags]

23. Then why don't they back it up with a no vote?

[oasis]

26. They are wise to pick their battles. The fight for Social Security lies

ahead and is more important.

[cags]

28. I wish they would pick a battle, and actually fight it.

[Carolina]

37. we've been falling for that crap

of pick your battles since selection/theft 2000, and the fucking Wimpocrats have left us hanging every time. If they're going to lose (as they have been), then lose standing for something. If they're going to be labelled obstructionists anyway (and be 'Daschled'), then go ahead and OBSTRUCT the nominations and the legislation with consistent and unanimous NO votes.

[cags]

39. Hear Hear!!

[oasis]

40. Social Security and federal judges are more important to me than who

gets to be Bush's ventriloqist dummy on the world stage. Let him have her.

[Lexus Liberal]

43. Anybody know the official reason?

Somebody, John Stewart or somebody must have asked a Democratic member of congress this question before. What did they say? "the spirit of "bi-partisanship"

[Carolina]

36. exactly

speechifying means little. It's the votes that count.

[robcon]

20. It's the votes, not the symbolism

Delaying the vote until Monday is meaningless. If you are happy there will be a "debate" on Rice, I think you in a minority, and are easily satisfied.

The Senate vote is said to be overwhelming - a similar ratio to the committee vote. There is no resistance, and clinging to a piece of straw that "there was a debate" is an admission of defeat, IMO.

[oasis]

29. Rice's abuses and lies will be on the senate record. The Social Security

privitization issue is a more important battle for Democrats. The American people cannot stomach too much opposition.

[bpilgrim]

31. thats NOT true

sure i am disgusted too that they are confirming her but some ARE standing up AND passing the word for the HISTORICAL record for all cares to see... that is HUGE!

we must continue to pressure the rest to get the MSG.

i believe we should always call out the folks who get it WRONG so we can expect change!

chin-up

peace

[cags]

35. And I applaude those that stood and will stand up with a no vote

instead of those that don't back up what they preach.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oc2002]

24. yes, but why are there Dems voting for the Coni confirmation?

Its nuts. She was part and parcel to the whole lies of WMD's.

Voting to confirm her, even if symbolic, is giving in to the big liers that everything was 'alright' after all.

bullshit.

[Carolina]

38. Kerry VOTED YES!

and then said last summer that "knowing then what you know now" he would do it all over again! Fuck him.

Boxer is the ONLY ONE who has been consistent, whose words and votes have matched. Her integrity and political courage have been unwavering. The same cannot be said of Kerry.

[NewJeffCT]

16. and, what would a no vote accomplish?

With the Republicans controlling 95% of the mainstream media out there, the Democrats have to play their weak hand very carefully... if we went out & opposed and filibustered everything Bush threw out there, that same media would kill us. Republicans would be able to say, "well, we want to work with Democrats, but they're just interested in obstructionism..."

Under Bush, the Sec of State is basically a symbolic position. Colin Powell had no power and Rice will have even less, as she does not even have close to the pre-Iraq credibility Powell had. What the Dems did was get that lack of credibility on the record.

[DrGonzoLives]

41. Might as well give up on that argument

I've been saying that for two days straight now - it just falls on deaf ears around. The drama queens want their drama, so let them have it.

[txaslftist]

46. Thanks for a moment of clarity Dr. Gonzo.

Got so swept up in the drama I forgot for a minute.

[Carolina]

42. the media has been maligning and labelling Dems

anyway. Wimpocrat Daschle -- far from a strong, rebellious voice-- was denigrated as an 'obstructionist' anyway and defeated. So the lesson here is that if you're going to be labelled anyway and if you're going to be defeated anyway, then dammit go out standing for something, go out fighting for your true beliefs. Hell, go out kicking and screaming about the lies and abuses around you.

Going along to get along has gotten us absolutely no where.

[King Coal]

17. OC2002, I don't appreciate that.

[oc2002]

22. I should of said, our elected representative Democrats, not just dems.

meaning that there are alot of Dems here who have far more balls than the ones we voted for.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. I think they did the right thing

let bush have his mistakes right out on public view.

[txaslftist]

48. OK, Cheswick...

Thanks.

[TWiley]

25. Thats true. Our "new leader" is nothing more than

a generic republican. All hope appears lost with the democratic party.

I am not sure if i will send the DNC any money at all this year because they suck so bad. I have already donated to lots of other organizations who actually do stand up for our rights.

[Lexus Liberal]

30. But the Joke isn't even funny

SOOOO true and SOOOOOO much more important that alot of Democrats acknowledge. I mean seriously, do you really blame Americans, people who are scared to death from fear mongering, do you really blame the for voting repub?

"they stick to their guns and have some balls"

Haven't we all heard people who voted for Bush just for this reason. They don't agree with Iraq, they don't agree with the policies, but just the fact of have a president with some backbone and some conviction, even if he's LYING with conviction. Makes people have faith in him. This Rice thing really opened my eyes. I am rally starting to see why the Democrats have such a hard time winning. It's not all the media's fault.

[Gloria]

44. Seems that if those 6 had voted NO, then the committee would have

been deadlocked??? Am I counting right??

How could they pass up that opportunity??

These people practice "the politics of being castrated."

[DrGonzoLives]

47. No

Lugar breaks the tie - there was no chance to hold her up in committee, save getting Chaffee to vote her down. Independent as he is, I don't think Lincoln is quite ready to commit political suicide...yet.

[redqueen]

45. A JOKE, or BOUGHT and PAID FOR?

[txaslftist]

49. Why this is a candy-assed sentiment.

"At least its one thing I admire about the Republicans, they stick to their guns and have some balls."

Unlike just about every one of the posts above, which is all about "our leaders aren't radical enough, so we're going to form a new, MORE RADICAL party that will get just enough votes to keep a democrat from ever being elected to anything. Yeah. That'll show 'em."

We need to, as party supporters, have some balls and stick to our guns and our party. Even when we disagree with the way they do things.

One thing I admire about Republicans is that they have the discipline to stick to their party even when they're getting their asses kicked, like in Colorado this past election, since everyone seems to have forgotten our victories in this rush to self-implosion.

Pansies.

There. Now you know the bad 'ol Texas Leftist is back. I tried bein' nice, you guys know I did.

[redqueen]

50. That might actually make sense, IF 'they' in the first quote you posted

referred to people who VOTE republican as opposed to the Republicans in congress.

Care to try again?

:eyes:

[mark414]

52. it's called picking and choosing your battles

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. yes lets focus on the un-winnable

that should be the new democratic strategy :eyes:

[DS1]

54. Wha? No Balls Patrol?

[ckramer]

55. Do they have balls?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Good doggies! Now roll over..again.

They do whine well. They have "reservations"? How very courageous of them.

[Moderator]

57. Locking.

This thread is not productive.

Thank you.

DU Moderator.