Just remember folks four years from today we will be watching a democrat

[WI_DEM]

being sworn in. I'm confident it will happen. Things go in cycles. After 8 Schrub years people will be more divided than ever and ready for a change. Besides the GOP doesn't have any strong contenders for '08 in my view--while Dems have lots of talent out there.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. Wes Clark

[WI_DEM]

2. that guess is as good as any out there

[Inland]

3. There are no cycles. There isn't anything inevitable.

What do you think is going to happen to make things cycle? Recession? Idiot war? Huge deficits? Attack on America? Torture scandals? Done that, did that. Still lost.

This concept of things naturally turning themselves around isn't a plan, it's a hope, and not a particularly good one.

[Carolina]

22. so well put

everything progressive ever achieved was done so through vigorous, sustained struggle. Power yields nothing (can't remember who 1st said that, perhaps it was MLK). Repukes are drunk with power and do not intend to give it up ... ever. That's why they've corrupted and consolidated the media, engaged in gerrymandering more and more repuke districts, devised schemes to privatize everything...

The so-called cyclical nature of things won't change this anytime soon. And with Dems like most of the current crop in DC and in some statehouses, only some sort of revolution will change the current state of affairs.

[cmf]

4. I don't take anything for granted

if we don't get our act together soon, we'll be watching another Shrub take office.

[donsu]

5. your dreaming

nt

[kentuck]

6. Only if it were as simple as a wish.....

It may be a long time before Democrats are back in power, judging from the most recent remarks and strategy. There has to be change or we may be sitting on the side once again. Change....change...change... Your eyes are getting heavy.

[Tyler Durden]

7. Even if it happens, it's not enough and it's far too late.

We can say what we want about our politics and our liberalism, but unless you're writing from JAIL, then you're Blowing Smoke.

Ask any Buddhist, or Hindu, or REAL Christian for that matter: if you pay ONE PENNY of tax to a government that supports:

Aggressive War
Torture
Fraud
Lies
ETCETERA

Then Karma/Dharma holds YOU personally responsible for the actions of that government.

If you paid a couple of bucks to the Fed this week (and who didn't?), then YOU bought a bullet.
If you paid your income taxes last year (and who didn't?), then you bought a rifle, 1000 rounds of ammo and a dozen grenades.

I can't go to jail, and I can't support this government with my taxes one minute longer than absolutely necessary and still sleep at night.

I continue frantically with my Canadian Immigration plans, and I don't feel one iota of "You are running away" guilt. I'm sacrificing my livelihood and my legacy to do this, and it still isn't atonement enough for my sins.

May the gods have mercy on the land; I wouldn't.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. I'd get out if I were able.

I wish I were financially able to leave. I'd be gone in a heartbeat!Take my sons and granddaughter with me, so that evil chimp MONSTER couldn't get his blood soaked hands on them. :-(

[alfredo]

8. In four years, bush will find a way to hold on to power.

I have a very dim view of our future as a representative democracy.

[Solly Mack]

9. We'll see

[UdoKier]

10. How quaint. You still think we have a democracy.

That your vote still counts and that corporations don't control every aspect of the electoral process.

If a democrat "wins" next time, it will be one with the corporate stamp of approval, one who WILL NOT undo any of the disaster wrought by Bush, except MAYBE reducing the ballooning deficit.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that the will of the people no longer has anything to do with it.

[AverageJoe]

11. My sad guess is that

in 4 years we will have another Republican president--hell, maybe this same one--being sworn in. The House and Senate will be even more solidly Republican and the Supreme Court will be solidly entrenched in the radical right.

I don't mean to be a downer. I just don't see anything that could happen that would:

1) Make the corporate media turn their backs on their BushCo* masters


2) Make lazy Americans look for truth behind the flag waving

or

3) Fix our criminally manipulated election system.


I think we're screwed.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. A pipe dream in a sham democracy.

And too far away, at that.

Welcome to the machine.

[forgethell]

13. A lot of people

were sure that we would be seeing a Democrat sworn in today. didn't happen. In four years a lot of things can go wrong for *, but things can go right, too.

And don't forget "election fraud". Or maybe, as was also predicted this time, there will be no election.

I don't really mean to be pessimistic, but quite frankly, I am not too optimistic about the future of the Democrats as a national party right now.

[indigobusiness]

14. We are toast.

Stick a fork in us, we are done.

This was our last gasping chance.

[fudge stripe cookays]

15. Until we can guarantee fair elections,

we won't see squat from a Dem, ever again.

Sad to say it, but it's true.

FSC

[JerseygirlCT]

29. That's my concern, too.

[ernstbass]

16. That's what I said 4 years ago!

[Beetwasher]

17. I Wish! Are You So Sure That We Actually Still Have The Right To Vote?

I'm not. They've got election fraud down to a science and they're only going to get better.

And that's not even taking into account what they are planning to do after the next terror attack.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

18. with BBV and the increasingly rw media, i remain doubtful

unless something is done about the joke of a set of voting machines the nation has, we're going to keep having magical come-from-behind victories by the GOP that defy the exit polls. and as long as the cable news is dominated by hannity and scarborough and co., we'll have to work our asses off to break even in 2008.

hopefully, dean as dnc head will work on the former. the latter, i have no idea what can be done.

[Dawgs]

19. Jesus Christ people...

Bush only got 51%. I sure am glad that none of you play for any sport teams I like. How the fuck you do expect to win anything with the attitudes and excuses I'm seeing here.

I think a great point was made this morning on unfiltered. Kerry's campaign manager was on and said that there goal was to get 5,000,000 more votes than 2000(Gore). They did, but Rove and Bush got 9,000,000 more. I hardly think we failed this time. We just need to get more out to vote and convert others from their side.

There is no doubt that Bush will help this cause.

[jhain]

23. It WILL Change

*WE* will- we ARE! changing the media.

It is allllllllllll about the media.

[Carolina]

25. 51% is still winning

and in politics winning is everything. Besides, as long as voting machines are manufactured by repuke companies and the vote tabulation is likewise privatized and conducted by repuke corporations, 51% might as well be 100%. A Dem won't stand a chance despite an increased GOTV effort. Wake up and smell the fascism.

[Dawgs]

36. Just another excuse...

Put blame on this loss and you will expect to lose the next. I don't want to hear it anymore.

The Republicans were in the same boat ten years ago, and look where they are now. They didn't get there by crying and playing the blame game.

[fudge stripe cookays]

37. They weren't fighting the same battle either.

The Democrats never grabbed a stranglehold on the media and manipulated the thinking of the American public. the Democrats also never owned the companies thaqt counted and tallied the votes.

We can organize all we want, but until we gain control of the media AND can assure that Repuke companies aren't tallying our votes, we can't win SQUAT. The circumstances have never been the same in this country before. This is a completely new kind of animal we're dealing with. It's called fascism.

FSC

[Dawgs]

41. So lets start working to get the media back..

We are talking about four more years... not four more weeks. Air America is a good start.

I guess I'm just frustrated with the 'give up' attitude.

[fudge stripe cookays]

43. I'm not giving up, honest.

I'm just waiting for someone to suggest something that will WORK in the situation we're in now. Our reps have rolled over and played dead (except for Boxer, bless her up and down for what she's doing; I love that woman.), our election has been stolen with out as much of a fight as there could have been, and our DNC chair is a big asshole (here's hoping we see improvement in that area).

Clear Channel is finally waking up to the fact that liberal voices mean money for them. But we need people with serious money and serious power waking up and realizing that it's going to take more than just grass roots organizations (with lots of lip service but very little real power) to make something happen.

They need to take their money and help us wrest control of the media again.

The idiots who've been listening to Rush for over a decade now feel that he's telling the truth. It's going to take us quite awhile to snap their brains back to where they would be if mainstream media was really doing their job instead of just spoonfeeding them bullshit pablum every day.

We're all frustrated, believe me. I think we're all coping in our own ways.
FSC

[tom_paine]

39. Interesting points, Dawg, but I strongly disagree

And I worked and donated my ass off in 2004 for Kerry and the Congressional Candidates, so I've got my cred.

And no, the Imperials WERE NOT in our position 10 years ago (though it's more like 20 or 30 or 70 years ago, if your contention was true).

Why? Because the Busheviks of those times did not face a cabal with a concerted plan and effort to weaken and destroy the Consttituion, the Media, the Judiciary, etc. in order to gain Unchecked Power and Endless One-Party Rule.

Oh, the Dems some stuff, can't deny that, and pushed some legilsation designed to cement their/our incumbency, but none of that smacked of the utter contempt and the aggressive, regimented action the Busheviks have taken on 100 fronts to sap and destory the Old USA so they could posess the corpse.

Examples (and these are only a couple among MANY):

Not ONLY are Touchscreen Electronic "Voting" Machines unauditable and recountable, the Bushevik Corporate Cronies who manufacture these machines went to court to prevent Neutral Third-Party Inspections of the machines and software...and won (how much you want to bet the "judge" that ruled on that one was a member of the Federalist Society?)

Do you ever recall the Democrats moving to secure unauditable voting or similarly tamper with the wholesale voting structure to prevent transparency to representatives of the people?

Now, we are all familiar with the Bushevik Bullshit Calumny that the Old Media operated as a propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, but was a so-called "Liberal Media" organization, CBS, say, EVER run by a High Democratic Official or a Campaign manager for a Former Dem President the way Roger Ailes is?

That is but a tiny example of how the Old American Media differs from the New Amerikan Media.

The humorous bit is that the FCC created the Fairness Doctrine and other FCC Regs because in the 40s they witness what dishonest One-Party Totalitarian Media could do to deceive a people, such as in Germany and Russia, and they wanted to avoid it here.

It worked for some 30 years after WWII, but now the regulations are gutted if not outright cancelled, most of them, and it is no surprise that the shrill cry of the Hitlerian/Stalinist One-party Totalitarian Media appeared shortly after that.

No the Republicans didn't flip the tables by playing the blame game. They flipped the tables by dusting of the old Nazi Propganda playbook (amazing how ell it still works) and by bullying, intimidating (non-violently for the most part, now that's progress, eh?) manipulating, lying, creating an Totalitarian Infrastructure to launder those lies into "conventional wisdom" and to drown out any factual truth that is damaging to their Emperor with the rhetorical equivalent of shrieking carnival music.

And our Democrats, for the most part are beautifully reprising the role of the 1930s German Social Democrats when faced with a similar planned assault on a Democratic Republic, albeit more violently and overtly racist than the current Party and Plan.

And I wonder, as the year 1933 began and the Reichstag burned (yes, Hitler moved quite a bit faster and more brutally to secure unchecked power than say, Bush or Caeser), if in the short period of time the German Social Democrats were still around, someone like you had said to all those people terrified of the future

Put blame on this loss and you will expect to lose the next. I don't want to hear it anymore.

The Nazis were in the same boat ten years ago, and look where they are now. They didn't get there by crying and playing the blame game.

No they didn't.

[Carolina]

44. DUH ... it's not merely this loss

it's the cumulative losses since 1994 but especially 2000 (through theft), 2002 through the introduction of those marvelous HAVA induced vapor-trail voting machines, culminating in the 2004 loss where once again machinations of the vote by repukes played a large role. These things DID not exist 10 years ago. Even the friggin media was different 10 years ago. So your comparison of where Dems are now with where repukes were then is crap.

Besides I'm am entitled to my opinion and if you don't want to hear it any more, then chime out!

[AverageJoe]

33. This misses the point

What on earth makes you think that * actually got 51% of the vote?

[Village Idiot]

20. HAHAHAHAHA....good luck.

There is NO WAY IN HELL we will EVER see another (marginally) honest election in America again.

The Perpetual War has begun, and Chimpy can do ANYTHING he wants as long as he cites the "War on Terra..."

[Lorien]

24. As long as unverifiable voting machines are in place

that's nothing but a pipe dream. :-(

[newportdadde]

26. Lets take a look at the possibilities.

Jeb is going to be the GOP nominee more then likely, the signs of that have started already. The Democratic Party doesn't appear to have someone yet to field that appears outstandingly storng.. Hillary would be disaster etc, we still have some time though.

Bush and the Republicans absolutely fucked up so bad many of us thought there is no way they will get back in much less pick up power but it happened. So as far as bad things occuring I'm not sure what it would take another Great Depression scenario maybe to turn that tide, but as of right now people are willing to forgo economic issues even at their own expense.

If there is any kind of terror attack we will see a GOP President, probably Jeb. That will be as close as people can get to W and still not change horses.

So really what we need is:
1. A great charismatic candidate which can capture states like Missouri, those states which are just barely red and do go blue.
2. An economy that is even worse then it is now.
3. No terror event, although this could be spun in the GOP favor so terror is a loose loose for us in my opinion.
4. An impartial media or at least evened out with our own partisan message.
5. Fair voting.

We have a tough road ahead.

[Tacos al Carbon]

31. OK, since we're speculating

I do not think that Jeb will run in 2008. Not only has he said that he won't, but he's smart enough to realize that Americans are predisposed against even the perception of dynasty. The following people may run for the Republican nomination in 2008:

Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Newt Gingrich
Condi Rice
Bill Frist
George Allen
Chuck Hagel
Christie Todd Whitman
And maybe 5-6 others

On the Democratic side we can expect:

Hillary Clinton
John Edwards
John Kerry
Wes Clark
Harold Ford
Joe Lieberman
Dennis Kucinich
Joe Biden
Bill Richardson
Tom Vilsack
Howard Dean
And maybe 4-5 others (including, possibly, Bill Cosby)

Everything from right wing Republicans to centrist Republicans to left wing Democrats to centrist democrats. Depending on who matches up with who, it could be a very interesting race.

[ObaMania]

27. I don't believe it for an f'ing second

We were saying the same thing 4 years ago. What if it doesn't happen? Do we just say the same shit again in 2008?

C'mon.. be real. Democracy as we know it is dead. Start getting ready to hail Jeb, Arnold, or Rudy in '08.

[tom_paine]

28. The pendulum cannot swing back if the clock is broken

You are thinking and speaking as if you lived in the Old American Republic.

But you don't and neither do I. That place is dead and gone, though the corpse hasn't begun to reek yet and Tiberius Bunnypants* apparently took the dead flesh out for a spin at today's Re-Coronation.

Like listening to Hitler talk about how "the German People want peace".

Exactly like that.

I am afraid the System is too beaten atrophied parasitized and there aren't enough Americans with "the Ukraininian Spirit" to fill a Football Satiudm, it seems.

We havethe media and voting systems with all the trustworthiness of Communist or Thrid World Countries, and our Judiciary is right behind it.

Sure, I worked and donated my ass off in 2004, but from the beginning I knew it would be like walking into a gunfight with a pair of boxing gloves.

Or trying to defeat the Nazis by "working within the System" back in the 30s.

You know, I may yet do the same in '06 and '08, because there's nothing else to do... but I have no illusions about what is going on here in the Empire.

You're optimism is appreciated, but misplaced.

The pendulum cannot swing back if the clock is broken.

And there aren't enough Real Voters to defeat the Bushevik vacation Home Double Voters and Electronically-Generated Legions.

Caeser has crossed the Rubicon and there's no going back after that.

Hell, with the Totalitarian One-Party Condition of the Amerikan Media, it may even be possible that Tiberius Bunnypants* won fair and square.

But I doubt it.

Check this out and pay special attention to #3

http://www.buffalobeast.com/66/50mostLoathsome2004.htm

And lest you think I am insulting you, those same words apply to me and to almost ALL Imperial Subjects of Amerika.

[SlowDownFast]

32. well said, unfortunately.n/t

[mhr]

30. I'll Believe That When I See It - We Said The Same Thing 4 Years Ago

eom

[springhill]

34. You must live in some kind of a bubble.....

There are no fair elections anymore.

[BiggJawn]

35. Jeb's changing parties?

No dems in '08 if Roemer gets to be head of the DNC...

[Senator Lamb]

38. too much negativity

despite Bush being considered by many here to be the worst President, that didnt make him easy to beat. he had the power of incumbency during a wartime to make people not want to take a chance w/ someone new, even though they a majority knew the IRaq War was messed up. they simply didnt want to take a chance.

yet after 9/11, the patriotism and unity that followed, he still won by the smallest margins for an incumbent since 1916 to a supposed liberal massuchessets senator.

most people dont listen to limbaugh and hannity, most people dont watch Cable news all day, most people arenet members of the 700 club and obsesesed w/gays, most people arent partisans, they will see what is happening.

[tom_paine]

40. Thy may see what's happening but will they be able to do anything about it

After all, the System of Checks and Balnces in the Amerikan Empire is winding down like the broken watch it is.

Our voting systems I wouldn't wish on the Communist Chinese (though they might be thrilled as we are at the ILLUSION of an election, when they haven't ever even had THAT)

And even if most people don't listen to Limbaugh and Hannity, they don't have to anymore. CNN and Faux BOTH are essentially 24/7 anti-Demoratic Party commercials anyway and the rest of Geobbels v2.0 has successfully laundered lies into "conventional wisdom" in the minds of many Imperial Subjects of Amerika who are in the "Middle Ground" category you speak of.

I have talked to them and it is insane. They know literally NOTHING of current events beyond Laci and Scott, Michael Jackson, and whatever phony "hard news" the Bushevik Sub-media is leading Corporate TV Pravda to examine and talk about endlessly.

Try and tell them, their eyes glaze over and no amount of ironclad fact chan change them.

Seeing THAT for the first time, years ago now, finally convinced me that not only COULD it happen eher, but it probably is.

You are right and wrong on this at the same time. What you said is true, but it doens't matter in the face of the concerted multi-pronged assault that I like to call Goebbels v2.0.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Assuming there are eletions, aka CLEAN elections

not the show we have seen