Does God hold us accountable for the sins of our nation?

[Chicago Democrat]

Poll question: Does God hold us accountable for the sins of our nation?

Does God hold us accountable for the sins of our nation?

[NoPasaran]

1. I sure hope not

Or else we are all well and truly fucked.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

2. G-d I hope not.

[patrice]

3. All things are conserved.

This nation was founded on slavery and genocide. Is it any wonder that we have so many troubles today?

Yes, we are a "good" people, but that is not all we are. We are also bad, look at our history. We must deal with what we are.

Hare Krsna! Hare Rama!

[Zynx]

8. We certainly paid the price for slavery.

In the end, nations tend to pay the price for their mistakes. I think it is just that they do even though it does mean great suffering.

[patrice]

12. Truth is, by definition, inevitable, whether you believe in God or not.n/t

[Chicago Democrat]

4. I believe that all Americans are sullied by the sins of our leaders..

Simply because we are Americans....

Noone is innocent now. The gas we buy. The Dollars we use. The land we live on all is STOLEN.

That's how I feel, like a criminal.

[Nihil]

24. It isn't fair but I agree with you

I think that there was a major distinction in the first term between
"Americans" and "Bush supporters" as perceived from the rest of the
world. That distinction has been heavily eroded now.

Although individuals will probably not blame Americans that they meet
on a personal level, I suspect that your view of being tarnished by
the "sins of your leaders" is becoming true.

(Still, that is the view of other humans rather than the original
question in the poll.)

[NVMojo]

5. christians have enlightened me ...there is no god, only karma....

[Chicago Democrat]

6. Om

(Or is God simply Karma)

[Zynx]

7. I think we are held accountable if we do nothing to stop them.

If we stand by and are complacent and let our nation do evil, then we are risking accountability.

[El Supremo]

9. Yes, but...

God either made us or allowed us to commit these sins. We will somehow pay for them not in this life, but in the next.

[WahooJunkie]

10. Or...

...we are just very smart pieces of meat.

[Mistress Quickly]

11. No

You answer to God for your sins, and your sins only.

If someone else sins, just because you lived in the same town, state, nation, world you don't answer for their sins.

It's a personal thing.

[El Supremo]

13. Did you do your all to stop these other's sins?

I didn't. That makes me responsible to some extent.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. no...it doesn't

you are not held accountable for the sins of others unless you entice them...

theProdigal

[regnaD kciN]

26. The trap in that logic...

...is that it is the exact same rationale used by the Religious Reich: God will punish all of us (i.e. America as a whole) unless we "do all we can" to stop the sins of others -- in other words, ban abortion, homosexuality, alcohol, etc., etc.

By that standard, it's impossible to be neutral or have it not apply to you -- if you don't ban such things, you are as complicit in them as the "sinners" themselves. It is your religious duty to prevent other people from acting in ways The Bible Says(tm) are "sinful," or you and your children will suffer the same punishment.

:crazy:

[superconnected]

16. I agree with this one

Of course it depends on the God you harbor. My god doesn't punnish me for the sins of Bushco and my ancestors.

[Festivito]

14. Affectable: YES, Accountable: NO.

I goofed and voted yes, wrongly. Opps.

Accountability is considered the worse of the two if that makes anyone reading this feel better.

[Journeyman]

15. Abraham Lincoln believed the Civil War was God's punishment. . .

for the sin of slavery.

From the Second Inaugural address:

If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

Who am I to argue with Mr. Lincoln?

[Seldona]

17. If there is a god, and he/she does, then we are so screwed.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

[bloom]

19. history will...

and that's about the same thing.

What our country does goes into the collective consciousness that is humanity.

[American Tragedy]

20. No. If there is a God, He holds us to account for our sins

not the sins of others who may share the same nationality, race, gender, or affiliations. Certainly, there are many sins of omission to be found in this sordid affair, among the millions who were apathetic in this election, and among those who were rich and powerful enough to change history yet remained complacent.

Contrary to what movies might teach us, the righteous side does not always triumph in this world. Often our protests against evil and injustice are in vain, even if we try as hard as we can. There are examples of this throughout history.

Personally, I will accept responsibility for what I've done, and the failures of my own conscience. But I will never fucking apologize to anyone for who I am or where I was born, nor would I ever seek such apologies from others.

[donheld]

21. Does God = karma in this poll?

:think:?

[Zynx]

22. I guess it depends on what you define God as.

[mrbill]

23. g*d is a concept by which we measure all pain

some assended master said this once

[Nihil]

25. I voted for "God doesn't care" ...

... because the god that I picture is simply a Creator, not a shepherd,
not a minder, an eye in the sky or a provider of unexpected gifts (good
or bad).

You could support all of the options by selecting quotations from the
appropriate books but there is a real risk that it will deteriorate into
one of the usual Christo/Judao/Islamo/Atheistic slanging matches that
have populated DU recently.

Not only is "God" a very subjective concept, "sins" are not tangible
and "the nation" is not a person so an objective answer would have to
be 'None of the above'.

Still, that wouldn't make for an interesting poll would it? :hi:

[rodriguez94]

27. as a believer of GOD and Christ, it alarms me so much more

to see people believing that GOD holds us accountable for sins of others than it does to see so many people that don't believe...if you are going to be a believer...get your facts straight and re-read the scriptures...GOD holds us accountanble for our individual sins...not that of the country or anyone else....

[MissMarple]

30. Thank you. I, too believe we relate to the Divine as individuals.

This "Christian nation" concept is so theologically and culturally inaccurate. Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberston and cultists like them will have much to answer for.

[NuttyFluffers]

28. yes, and his ways are mysterious indeed

asexual he, by the way.

no such thing as pure random, but there is such a thing as chaos. ;)

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

29. He holds us accountable, if we stand back, and don't fight.

If we allow the sin to continue unopposed, and the judgment comes, then it's the righteous, that gets it first (for not speaking up). Basically, he wants us to stand up for the good.

[Vidar]

37. Agreed but I feel it is more a matter of karma.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

40. "You reap what you sow."

[El Supremo]

31. I can now see why we lost the Presidential election.

39 people do not believe in God.

We are the party of the Atheists and Agnostics.

As Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice." I know he was talking about quantum physics or the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, but it still holds true concerning our lack of knowledge of the universe.

[dansolo]

32. God doesn't recognize nations

I believe that God, if he exists, will judge all people as individuals.

[Fleurs du Mal]

33. "Haven't you heard[...]"

[Deja Q]

34. God doesn't care. God's best creation is an abomination. And why does God

need to interfere? We're destroying it well enough on our own.

[Castilleja]

35. No god, but if there is something that could be considered "god"

I am sure this god would not be caught up in the minutiae of favoring a nation or anything like that.

[noel711]

36. If you read the bible...

particularly the First Testment (usually called the Old Testment) prophets, especially Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Micah, and Hosea, it's evident that the Lord held Israel and Judah VERY responsible for not taking care of the poor, or the abandoned children, or for sustaining justice. The LOrd had very high expectations of his chosen;
and although he relented for a time, the Lord did NOT want kings to rule the people because absolute power always leads to corruption.
Apply that to your inauguration...

[Nikia]

38. For my crumbling self esteem, I'll say no

Many people start suffering seriously from anxiety and depression when they think that they are responsible for the misdeeds of others, when they think that it is their responsibility to correct those misdeeds and fail. To be accountable for the sins of our nation is a heavy burden, especially for the majority of us who are not in a position to easily affect public policy in a significant way.
Since I believe that God is a compassionate, loving God, I believe that He would not put such a heavy burden on each of us. Yes, we should do our part when we can, but our primary responsibility is acting morally and ethically in our own individual lives. Only Jesus had to die for the sins of the world. That is not required of us.

[noel711]

39. Very well said, Nikia!

That is all true! But in Matthew 25: 42, Jesus said:
"I was hungry, you gave me no food... I was thirsty, you gave me no drink...I was naked... I was a stranger... I was a prisoner...."
Pardon the proof text.. but it points to our accountability to those in the greater community. We don't get out of here scott free.

[Seeker30]

41. Edgar Cayce once stated

that nations are subject to karma just as individuals are. Personally I would like to think that people that support a corrupt government will pay for the sins of the government they support.

[Vidar]

42. Cayce's a good, interesting source. nt