So, will congressional Dems vote for bu$h's 87 billion?

[maveric]

Will all the repugs in both houses give it to him?
Any Dem with half a spine should vote NO.
The economy is in the toilet,jobs are being lost,and constituents, both dem and repug are the ones taking the beating. Could this be the time when both parties say "enough is enough" and reject this insane amount of taxpayer money from extending bu$h's war on terra?
This may be the true test for Dems and non lunatic fringe repugs to really show some spine and reason.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. We can't afford this!

Anyone who gives him this is an ASS!!! A MAJOR ASS!!!

[CMT]

2. my feeling

which I don't necessarily agree with is that many of them will vote for it because we are there and we have to finish the mission now--and to not vote for it will be turned into a vote against our troops attack.

[gratuitous]

3. I suspect your feeling is correct

But I'd like to see the Democrats (and the fiscally responsible Republicans, if any can be found) force a detailed accounting of every last penny before they vote in favor of it.

Chimpy himself said last night he wanted $87 billion, of which $66 billion was for ongoing military operations. What's the other $21 billion for? Spillage? I want to see every penny of that appropriations request, because it looks, sounds, and smells like a big fat payoff to me!

[Brotherjohn]

10. I agree. This gets me thinking, the main reason for the speech may be...

... to set up Dems. If they don't vote for it, Bush can say "Of course things are going badly! You wouldn't give me the money to do the job right!" If they vote for it, it will be said that Congress, even the Dems, are behind Bush in Iraq.

But I think the "third way" that perhaps Bush's arrogance won't let him see (but that I hope most Dems follow) is to say, "Okay, we'll give you this, but we need to get the U.N. in and get the hell out ASAP". They need to say "Okay, we'll pitch in 87 billion. but that's it. It's going to cost a WHOLE lot more than that, and we can't afford it (especially not with your tax cuts). So we need to hand over control of Iraq to the United Nations, and a multi-lateral peacekeeping force. We cannot afford this occupation, and the only way we're going to get substantial monetary and troop committments from the international community is if we make this a U.N. operation."

[Cocoa]

4. if you mean vote "no" outright, and rule out any negotiation

I doubt they'll do that. They'll negotiate to some extent.

[ewagner]

5. This will be an interesting struggle

One one hand this would be an excellent opportunity for the dems to:

1. Put some nasty little strings on the approval.
2. Make Bush and his boys answer some really tough questions before the House and Senate Committees.
3. Extract a repeal of the tax cuts in return for Iraqi $$$.

Bush, on the other hand, will play hardball to the max!. e.g.: Anti-patriotic dems plaing politics with 'Merica's security, etc.,

Dubya could also find a very interesting "get out of jail free" card here.

Suppose repealing the tax custs is the price he pays for the $87B? Suppose (not hard to imagine) the economy is still in the shitter before the 2004 election. Is it his fault? NNNNoooooooo! Those nasty old Dems made him repeal the tax cut that would have "saved the economy" ; "created 1.4 million new jobs";

That's the way these assholes would spin it.

[Brotherjohn]

13. I've already read that the tax cuts may be on the table re the $87B.

I don't think Bush could pull the "you shouldn't have repealed my tax cuts! They would have saved the economy!" line. $87B is peanuts compared to the sum total of all the tax cuts he's already given out.

Besides, if we had to repeal some tax cuts because we could not otherwise afford this $87B, this would be directly because of another Bush initiative (Iraq), not a Democratic initiative. It would only prove the point that Bush cannot balance the nation's checkbook for the life of him.

[ibegurpard]

6. I don't see how they can vote any other way.

We've toppled the government...we can't just leave. HOWEVER, what the Democrats can and should do, IMHO, is insist that there must be a tax increase to pay for this and link it to the Bush Administration getting UN help and cooperation.

On edit: All the "freedom fries" fuckwads wanted this war? Well, they can damn well pay for it then! :grr:

[asjr]

15. bush

You are right. We can't leave now. But I am so outraged over this whole thing I can't see straight. The WH will have to retract the tax breaks they gave to the highest earners in this country. And the money Shrub and Cheney are raking in on their campaign trips should be given to make up some of this request. My God, Shrub asks us for 87bil one night and next day goes off to a fund-raiser for himself. His arrogance is limitless. The people who donate to his campaign must either be totally clueless or just downright mean. This regime has turned into a stage play that should have folded after the first act. I was angry before, but this request for sacrifice is just the last straw. I am writing my Repub senators today!

[unfrigginreal]

7. After Congressional hearings to determine the validity of the request...

if $87 billion is needed, we have to give approval. We destroyed it now we have to rebuild it!

[LionInWinter]

8. It's a win-win for the repubs

Vote no = soft on terra; don't support the troops, etc.

Vote yes = alienate the dem base & have trouble in the primaries.

I hear Karl Rove laughing somewhere.

[Cocoa]

9. if that were true, he would have done it sooner

no, this is bad for Bush, he's only doing it because he's forced to.

[LionInWinter]

11. Actually I agree that this is bad for Shrub

I was just anticipating repub spin for anyone who has to vote on it.

[Brotherjohn]

12. One can just as easily see it as win-win for Dems.

If they vote no, they can say it's too expensive (especially in light of the Bush tax cuts). In internet polls today, the cost seems to seems to have hit Americans smack in the face. If they vote yes, Dems can say that we're there, so we just have to finish the job and do the best we can (while still disagreeing on Bush policy).

[sandnsea]

14. If the Dem base are idiots

I don't think they are. Voting yes shouldn't have any affect on the Dem base at all, except for the ones who choose to exploit it to further their own candidate's campaign.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi balrog99!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Harrumph]

17. Does anyone remember.....

when Rummy went before Congress in April for the $79 billion to fight the war we had already started? He was asked repeatedly if this would be enough for the following year. Rummy kept saying he could not foresee any reason why they would ask for any more money. This was less than 5 months ago. If I were in Congress, I would demand a full accounting of every dime of the $79 billion they already gave Rummy. And I mean EVERY DIME!!! With receipts and all.