John Kerry is not a Wal Mart investor. That is a lie.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

tHE POST IS HIS WIFE'S INVESTMENTS.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=297811#297987

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=298186&mesg_id=298186

The thread which is the truthful one should remain unlocked.
The thread which is a deliberate lie in order to mislead should not remain opened.

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. But they are married.

Right? Isn't Mass a community property state? If so...they are his as well.

[AWD]

2. In the interest of peace...

...my wife and her sister own a beautiful cabin in Ontario. I have never once claimed that I own it (even though it would be easy to do so).

Technically, I do own it too since we're married...but it's always just been hers.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. So what. Do you think she asked his permission on where to invest her

inheritance. Again GBnC PLEASE TIE A SINGLE KERRY VOTE ON AN ISSUE TO THIS INVESTMENT.

You work for Sub Way. Sub Way forces people into a life of indentured servitude by paying a nominal wage. Does that make you a slaveholder for profitting off of that?

It's the same fucking logic.

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. The difference...

I take care of my employees and pay them a decent wage. Ask any of my employees what they think of Termite and I and you would get a lot different answer, than say from someone that works at Wally World.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Really? What wage might I ask.

Do you have knowledge of all Wal Mart employees salaries? Is the wage you pay them a living wage?

Please pony up proof of that. If you don't, you are being hypocritical. and remember I GET TO BE THE JUDGE of whether you do and can tie any difficulties they may have to you based on your association to them as their employer.


i mean, let's play this out the way you play with Kerry. OK? Fair enough?

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. Well Washington state says $7.01 is minnimum.

I start em at $8.00 and raise them in 30 days to $8.50...my longest term employee makes $11.75

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Well my mother works for Wal Mart and makes more than minimum wage

and she is 77 years old. Wal Mart is the only place that would even give her a job. Surprised?

Don't get me wrong. They are too big, wield too much power, get people addicted to cheap Chinese products and furniture that has created unfair competition for other businesses etc, but if Kerry's WIFE pulled her investment tomorrow (which is not all that large) I think they could still afford to do it.

Secondly, it is his wife's investment. Pretty sexist to expect the man to control his wife.

[yankeedem]

48. Google Walmart and "janitors insurance"

and you may have the reason why Walmart is so quick to hire the elderly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

50. I am aware of "peasant's" policies. They are not legal in California

[Andy_Stephenson]

54. They are in Texas

and Wal-Mart uses them to their advantage.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. So is Kerry via his wife now responsible for every parade of horribles in

Texas too?

[bloom]

69. Excuse me

But didn't you congratulate the poster who said that Maria (Scharzenegger?) should have stopped her husband from running?

Isn't that just as sexist? Expecting the woman to control the husband...


:shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

70. I don't recall that I did.

But I might have...I doubt I said anything about her being expected to control him.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. That's 320.00 a week. Who can live on that?

[Andy_Stephenson]

31. Seeing how they are all college students...

Not supporting a family and living at home...I'd say it is pretty good for fast food. I dare you to find a McDonalds that pays better...Hell for that matter I dare you to find a Subway in Seattle paying starting employees more than 7.01.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. In and Out pays competitively and based on your logic (again we are

using you logic which absolves guilt by association) SubWay is chasing smaller independently owned sandwich shops out of business by being so large, they can sell a sandwich for less.

[Andy_Stephenson]

51. Wrong!

Im not selling Tv's Microwaves, and other "Made in China" crap. Your argument is wrong...There is another sandwich shop across the street from mine. They do quite well. See Wal-Mart has a habit of killing competition through the price advantage they have...an advantage gained by using slaves to make their crap.

[Career Prole]

5. My wife doesn't take instruction well either.

Sometimes seems deliberately contrary. I'm not voting for Kerry's wife. There...I've made it official.

[oldcoot]

36. She does not live in Mass

Heinz Kerry is still a legally resident of Pennsylvania (http://www.seacoastonline.com/1999news/9_9_sb2.htm). They also have a prenuptial agreement.

[curse10]

56. Not true, check Mass state law

Marriage alone does not make spouse potential creditor under GL c 109A and divorce proceedings do not subject all transfers made during marriage to retrospective scrutiny under c 109A. Yacobian v Yacobian (1987) 24 Mass App 946, 508 NE2d 1389.

and

ALM GL ch. 209, § 1 (2003)

§ 1. Rights in Separate and Marital Property; Liability for Debts.

The real and personal property of any person shall, upon marriage, remain the separate property of such person, and a married person may receive, receipt for, hold, manage and dispose of property, real and personal, in the same manner as if such person were sole.

[meegbear]

3. As long as it makes Kerry look bad and dean good ...

does it matter? The deanpers are the only ones who "care" and they already have their candidate.

[Patriot_Spear]

8. LOL... whatever.

I'm ABB and I like Kerry; but I like Deam more. Why are you so bitter?

[Capn Sunshine]

10. LOVE THAT POLL CHART

[Patriot_Spear]

12. ..and I love that button!

Bush/ Satan- too funny!

[newsguyatl]

35. because his

candidate's campaign is goin down the tubes

[NewYorkerfromMass]

46. That seems to be your fervent wish and desire

I don't see why that should be so. Deanper?

[blm]

66. Yeah...that's what Weld said.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

[LeftCoast]

11. Oh stop with the Dean bashing

Sheesh, I'm a Dean supporter, but Kerry's a good guy - just not my 1st choice. This investment criticism is lame, but so is turning it around and blaming it on Dean.

[maxanne]

19. and this nastly little outburst

is related to the topic - how??? :eyes:

[DrGonzoLives]

26. Oh, please

knock off the very thinly veiled bullshit that Dean supporters are freepers.

How do you type when your wrists are nailed up on your cross?

[Forkboy]

40. try going just on thread without bashing dean or his supporters

I dare you.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

6. So he's guilty by association?

I'm not voting for Kerry for President, but what matters to me is that he has a GREAT record as my Senator (voted with Kennedy 100% of the time). I disagree with his war vote, but I think many of our congresspeople and senators were duped with false evidence.

I think it's silly to focus on his investments. We should be focusing on Bush's investments.

[Capn Sunshine]

9. IN Kerry's defense

That money IS his wifes, they scrupulously maintained separate fortunes , prenup I believe, and what, now DUers think what belonged to a woman prior to marriage now automatically belongs to the husband?

Isn't that a tad neanderthal?

Money? MINE!
go cook, woman!

[onehandle]

15. Details, Details....

If you live in the United States and don't spend your time burning down Wal-Marts, you obviously are in cahoots with Bush.

;-)

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. How often do you spend money there?

I'll never darken their doorstep.

[onehandle]

22. Like I said, they suck.

I don't shop there. However, I have no doubt that my 401k (what's left of it) contains them in some way.

If you expect the average American to avoid Wal-Mart completely, you have a very unrealistic view of how things work.

Where do you shop for those sort of needs?

[Capn Sunshine]

25. Nor I

But we have a plethora of choices, we're not some captive small town

[Old and In the Way]

30. GBnC

I think you are treading on thin ice here. Couldn't people make the case that Subway homoginizes the deli industry? How would you feel if a poster was to slam Subway for driving local Mom and Pop businesses under and therefore, he'd never darken the footstep of a Subway Shop? I think you'd be rightfully pissed, no?

I know many here hate Wal-Mart and I understand why. But I also know that Wal-Mart is a very important consumer brand for many who don't have the discretionary income to shop upscale or need to travel 75-100 miles for alternatives. I don't really think it reflects well on the board to be bashing an important shopping outlet for many Americans...that's just my opinion, though.

[Andy_Stephenson]

53. A red herring...

Subway does not practice predatory pricing, based on an advantage gained from using slave labor.

[JanMichael]

52. I haven't for over two years.

The next time I step through those doors they'll be a cooperative collective.

[oldcoot]

33. Yes, they do have a prenuptial agreement

Apparently, the prenuptial agreement is a subject she enjoys discussing (see: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134934008_kerry08.html ).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. all the more reason the thread is a lie

[Cocoa]

18. Kerry's been the target of the most negative campaigning

by far, especially over the long term.

The Skull & Bones nonsense started a LONG time ago, and not just here, it's been all over the Internet.

Interestingly, Kerry was on Nixon's enemies list back in the day.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. It's the left taking down Al Gore over Love Canal all over again

a few of our more naive posters don't realize that by giving false rumors life, they are doing Rove's job for him.

I know...their heart is in the right place..but if I have to live with anymore of their good intentions (as with the result of the last election) I might just need a CO SIGNER!

[molly]

23. They're just scared and jealous

or all of this crap would be non-issues. I think it's amusing. But, let someone post FACTS about their candidate and all hell brakes loose.

[Forkboy]

49. you're one to talk

[molly]

71. HeHeHeHe!!!

:evilgrin:

[agingdem]

20. Kerry...

Who cares whether John Kerry owns WalMart stock...I do my grocery shopping at WalMart and that doesn't mean jack except WalMart's prices are lower. John Kerry is running for President, he's qualified, and he's a Democrat...enough said.

[molly]

24. I buy my canned cat food there

cheapest around and my cats love it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. your cats are fascist union busters

like I said..the person that started that lying thread works for an airline. Airlines employees have gotten stock option which makes them co-owners. Does that mean every time an airline employee gets laid off it is their co-worker's fault?

[molly]

72. AMEN!!!

much more qualifed than what's-his-name.

[Old and In the Way]

28. Does Heinz sell to Wal-Mart?

I suspect they do, so it's not exactly shocking that she'd have their stock in her portfolio.

Pretty lame reason to bash Kerry, I think. Almost as bad as the Skull and Bones smear.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. kick

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. kick so it is right next to the thread that lies at the top of the page

[acerbic]

39. Usually calling another poster a liar gets deleted pretty quickly

...even if it's factually correct and the original post really is a lie. That's just the rules... or don't they always apply?

[blm]

41. She said the charge was a lie,

not that the poster was a liar.

[acerbic]

43. Messages saying "that's a lie" have been deleted before

...using the logic that if you call what someone else is saying a lie, you're calling the poster a liar.

BTW, I'd support making it prohibited to post lies about the candidates (ALL of them) but whatever the rules are, first they should be applied evenly to everyone.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. I don't think anyone should be punished for telling the truth

and if something is a lie and you point that out, you are telling the truth. It is wrong to be punitive towards those who demonstrate integrity as it rewards those who have none.

[acerbic]

45. I absolutely agree with you on that, but as I said,

whatever the rules are, first they should be applied evenly to everyone.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. If a person who golfs is a golfer, then a person who knowingly lies is....

this shouldn't be difficult. Even for a site promoting a free flow of ideas.

[acerbic]

55. It shouldn't, but a person who calls lies posted about Dean lies

...gets his posts deleted and is threatened with banning.

[Booberdawg]

57. Had to be more to that scenario than that

I'd bet there was a personal attack that got the post deleted and if threatened with banning it wasn't the first time the poster was warned.

Nice try.

[acerbic]

58. Of course there was a personal attack

That's what calling a post a lie is usually treated as, which is my point. What's yours?

[Booberdawg]

60. Calling what is posted a lie is not a PERSONAL attack

*sigh*

Read the guidelines yourself. I have posted a snip
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility

Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other members of this discussion board.

If you are going to disagree with someone, please stick to the message rather than the messenger. For example, if someone posts factually incorrect information, it is appropriate to say, "your facts are wrong," but it is not appropriate to say "you are a liar."

This thread is initiated pointing out in so many words that the suggestion Kerry is a Wal-Mart investor. Is a lie. That is a true statement. It is not a personal attack.

You said: but a person who calls lies posted about Dean lies gets his posts deleted and is threatened with banning.

I am suggesting THAT post you refer to attacked the MEMBER, instead of or in addition to the subject. I also suggest that if that poster was threatened with banning, it wasn't the first time they have been warned for the tactics they use.

THAT is my point.

I don't know who you are referring to, but tell me, in this case, are you more concerned with the title in this thread or with who started it? I'm beginning to wonder.

[acerbic]

61. I'm concerned with consistency and fairness

This is not about the same case but concerning another post of obvious lies, a quote from a message I received from a moderator:

"I had to remove the post below because of the personal attacks on another DU poster. It is expliticly against the DU rules to accuse another poster of being a liar or of saying lies."

I've seen many times somebody call a post a lie without calling the poster a liar directly and the post usually gets deleted. Do you pretend to disagree?

[Booberdawg]

63. Oh, YOU got the admonishment!

That explains it.

I'm not the kind of person who writes blank checks, nor am I willing to accept your version of what happened.

Instead of hijacking this thread for this personal complaint, why don't you just hit the alert (as you have been invited to do) if it bothers your sensibilites or sense of fairness, and take your other personal issue up in "Ask the Admin"


Here's the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=120

[acerbic]

64. I told you that example was from another case, quite long ago

...but it shows the usual policy of interpreting the rules. The message in it is very clear: saying that a post is a lie equals calling the poster a liar. Which part of it do you pretend not to understand?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Not certain but I am certain that the post is a lie..I didn't say the

poster was but I suppose it would be logically correct since the poster was aware his title was a lie based on the content of his post.

Frankly, i don't think that posters should be able to skirt the rules about disruption anymore than I can skirt the rules about personal attacks but I am not the ultimate arbiter of what is skirting the rules. Hit the alert on me :D I am interested in seeing the thought process behind the logic myself. :hi:

[theboss]

62. Jebus!

Who gives a good goddamn what stock any of these people own? Doesn't it all go into a blind trust anyway?

These are rich men. Rich men own stock. I am not a rich man. I own stock. What's a brother to do?

Do we only want Ghandis running for office?

[Andy_Stephenson]

65. Do we only want Ghandis running for office?

sounds like a good start

[Terwilliger]

67. Ghandi's running for office means no more bullshit

sounds fantastic

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

68. If Ghandi ran today his character would be assassinated by the left as

quickly as it would by the right.

The right would call him a "peacenik" and the left would cay he was a fraud fasting for the cameras. Counterpunch would run a story on how he claimed to "invent" fasting for peace and they would have him torn to shreds as a modern day Mother Theresa only doing so for a photo-op and the chance to rub elbows with other power brokers.

Get my drift?