Isn't sort of odd that many of us quote the Bible and others

[Mountainman]

quote some other book to prove a point.

Who's book has the real truth and who's book doesn't?

I get a strange feeling when ever someone quotes their book because I feel that we can know truth without some ancient writings telling us what is and what isn't.


Just a thought I got from today's posts.

[ClassicDem]

1. All Paths Lead to the Same Destination

n/t

[Kitka]

15. You really think so?

I tend to disagree with that phrase. If you don't mind discussing the idea further, what do you believe the destination all paths lead to is?

[ClassicDem]

19. Spirituality...

the Bible, Koran, Scriptures and Sutras all strive for the same purpose, individual enlightenment.

[expatriot]

2. books provide points of reference... that's all.

I am militantly agnostic but will still make reference to the Bible. I will make reference to any book.

For a few reasons: first of all, if you are trying to make a point you can point to a work that you think others will know and will be able to assume the context without you having to write it all out, etc.

[Az]

3. I don't typically quote the bible to prove a point

Usually its the reverse. I simply believe that if one is going to discuss a matter it if fair and honest to be as best appraised of the subject as possible. If I were to dismiss the bible simply because I had heard it was a problematic text that would be disengenuous on my part. Thus I familiarize myself with it (and other texts as well).

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. look in your own heart

if you get still enough and listen, the Truth is there.

[merh]

5. I quote the Bible to fundies that are misguided.

Like on the issue of public prayer. I will reference Matthew 6:5 - 15.

The best they can do to counter (so far) is to say things like "Oh, so John the Baptist was wrong to preach?". To which I simply respond that Jesus' quote found at Matthew 6:5-15 was made after John the Baptist preached about the coming of the Son of God and after John the Baptist was beheaded. I then ask them if they believe the Gospels are a true reflection of Jesus' words and life and are Christians supposed to believe that the Gospels contain Jesus' words and are true accounts of his life? If they answer yes, I then ask them why do you question the words of Jesus as found in Matthew 6?

Knowing the book that they use to condemn and judge others is very useful. It helps to point out to them that they have been missing some really good verses.

[stanwyck]

6. use fire

to fight fire. I quote The Bible to fundies all the time. I suggest that liberals retake Christianity. Let's put up billboards and run ads with all the liberal verses from The Bible. And there are plenty. Fundies hate it when you use "their" book against them. Tell them if they'd actually read The Bible, they'd never have voted for Bush. There are hundreds of references to protecting the environment. There are hundreds of references to taking care of the poor and the afflicted. There are hundreds of references denouncing the materialistic lifestyle. Watch the festivities of the Bush inauguration. These celebrations of the self don't reflect Christian ideals. Excess. Celebrating gluttony...taking more than you need. Republicans are the antithesis of Christians. They just swiped the label.

[bliss_eternal]

9. Yes!Thank you for saying this! If you ever feel so inclined

please cite some of the scriptures or at least where to find them (and what area they address).

Some of the DU'ers that are interested may like having this kind of ammunition for their Fundie acquaintances. I know I would save it to my bookmark or Demopedia.

It's nice to hear someone that knows the Bible well acknowledge that it speaks to more than just hate, judgement, denial of rights, wealth, etc.

[merh]

10. The Book of Matthew is the perfect source.

A great internet reference to obtain quotes (or to find passages) is http://www.biblegateway.com/

Also, you might want to borrow from this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2633391
=========================
Matthew 5:43-48;
You have heard it said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in Heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect , therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 6:5-15
Prayer
5“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

“This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 6: 34-40
The Greatest Commandment
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5“Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’

8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices–mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law–justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and selfindulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

[stanwyck]

14. You're great!

Thanks so much for your posts. They are much appreciated. And you're a much better source than me.

[merh]

17. You are very welcome!

:hi: The biblegate site is great to use, you can access any version of the bible. When you provide them New Testament verses they will try to hang you up with Old Testament verses. The simple response to that is the obvious, if they are Christians, then the New Testament verses update or amend the Old Testament. They are supposed to be following Christ, so why do thy question his life example or his words? They generally don't have an answer and will go to someone that is more familiar with the Bible. That person generally doesn't have the answers either because Jesus' message is pretty simple and contrary to their judgmental rantings -- live a life of love.

[merh]

20. Here is a link to another thread that provides some

great links to articles that may help you in your efforts to reach out to rwers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1518190

[merh]

11. There is also this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2051983

Matthew 25
41: Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42: for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43: I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
44: Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
45: Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
46: And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

[bliss_eternal]

12. Perfect! And thank you for the link!

One of my faves is I Corinthians 13:1-13

...And now I will show you the most excellent way.

If I speak in tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal....

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keep no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in truth. It always hopes, always perserveres.

(8) Love never fails...

[merh]

13. Yes, that is one of my favorites.

Like the other threads, I will bookmark this one for easy access!
Thanks

[cags]

21. I do that too, I was thoroughly brainwashed as a kid, I used to be that

Baptist teenager knocking on peoples doors. My poor mother can barely handle it. I can render them speechless

[merh]

22. A belated Welcome to DU!

Maybe you can help me find a verse I know is in the New Testament, but I can't seem to limit my search right to find it on biblegate.

When Jesus was asked about the old laws, the Old Testament, he said something to the effect "I cam not to change the laws, but to live them." Are you familiar with the correct verse or phrase?

[cags]

23. Is this what you mean?

Matthew 5:17 (King James Version)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

You could also try biblegateway.com, they have a good search engine

[merh]

24. That's the one, thank you.

Also thanks for the other site reference.

Have you ever tried to search, you know the phrase or subject is there, but you just can't get your query right? Well, that is a what happened, like a brain fart, only a query fart.

:hi: Thanks again!

[kiraboo]

7. Sometimes I refer to either the Bible or, say, Twain.

Why? Because I don't always have the words to express what I mean to say.

[Acryliccalico]

8. The bible is a great reference book

because it has a defense for everything and a counter-defense for the same thing. At least 6 TIMES.

[HeeBGBz]

16. There are truths everywhere

Hidden like precious ore in a sea of ambiguity.

[immoderate]

18. The Bible is one of the classics of literature.

It contains many good stories which illustrate the human condition. People are familiar with them.

The mistake is to use the Bible to prove something. That doesn't work.

--IMM