The problem with America: It's cool to be dumb!

[JohnnyCougar]

Just look at TV. Reality TV, John Madden announcing football, Bush as president...dumb people are popular!!!

[Spinzonner]

1. Then is it dumb to be cool ?

[cthrumatrix]

21. corporations are "conditioning america" to accept this

reality shows, the constant emphasis on non-important issues (like sports).

Corporations love it that we are hooked to TV and and no gathering as concerned citizens to boycott thier behaviors.

[REP]

2. Duh!

[gnofg]

3. especially

in the south.

[Cooley Hurd]

4. It's only gonna get worse with another 4 years of the Chimp...

...since they already spurn intellectualism and science publicly and with an apparent glee.

Are we not men? We are DEVO (as in de-evolving)...

[sweetheart]

5. Huh Beavis....that wuzth cuuul

Yea yea... hehehehh

[klyon]

6. yes, so what are we going to do about it?

John Madden ex-raider coach knows more about football than anyone. He is a student of the game. If you are referring to his manor of speaking, what ever it is I might agree but most football talking heads mess-up the language a good deal so I don't think anyone should be singled out and called names.

We do not value thinking, it has been down played all my life. The reciting of facts has been confused with analytical thinking, they are not the same. Somehow we must re-awaken the curiosity in everyone. Learning should be life long, we seem to think we know all we need at age twenty and that is sad.

Without thinking there can be no discussion, that is probably why the right finds new followers easily they do not ask them to think. You must think to be persuaded by logical arguments. I personally would hate to see us "dumb" it down, instead let us see it we can find ways of presenting that pulls them up and in, as Madden does.

KL

PS Bradshaw is also very much a student of the game. Go Steelers

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[klyon]

14. that is very clear

<<As for thinking, who needs it?>>

and as for Steelers blowing they have blown away the competition all season so I hope they continue to blow.

KL

[democratic pride]

8. I believe it

Just look at the popularity of Homer Simpson. I love Homer though. Bush is dumb in an evil way...not a hilarious, falling down the stairs kind of way.

[Hailtothechimp]

9. Like Jon Stewart's book says "The eternal fate of the noble...

and enlightened is to be conquered by the armed and dumb." Welcome to 2005 America.

[tinonedown]

25. I'm an armed Lib.

Because the enligtened being conquered by the dumb doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Me, I'm armed and refuse to be conquered by the galactically stupid.

[lawladyprof]

10. When you ask what is the matter with American education

This, IMO, is its greatest problem.

[nookiemonster]

11. Ignorance is bliss

Never more true than now. :(

[saltpoint]

12. 'Found this brief clip on Glenn Reynolds' blog a while back:

"...the red states, which constitute America's majority, are the land of gun-toting, gay-hating morons who watch Fox News and actually believe in Jesus."

Not sure, but I think the writer was in FAVOR of those things.

When I laugh at Archie Bunker, it's because he's an appalling caricature. But some people like him because they agree with him.

And on the subject of dumbing-down, that Inaugural address was a real stinker.

[KlatooBNikto]

13. That is nothing.My daughter's eighth grade class was asked by their

teacher to name one Arab country in the Middle East. Fully ninety percent of the class replied: Israel!

The decline and fall of the American Empire starts at an early age.

At this rate, no child will be left behind by the Bush Tsunami on Education.

[The River]

15. It's a Backlash Against the "Smart Machines"

I got an email 5 or 6 years ago which contained an imagined
dialog between a Psychiatrist and a cognitive (self aware) computer
concerning a possible backlash/rebellion against "smart" machines.

"So, tell me, now that thousands of Super Cognitive Computers may soon join us on planet Earth, do you think this will result in further dumbing down of humans?

Super Cog: The process has already begun, but most humans don’t mind at all. Actually, as it becomes more and more unpopular for people to display intelligence or wisdom or profound thinking, or especially the “superlative sentience” that you mentioned, the general public will increasingly find comfort in proving their humanity by acting stupid and doing completely inane, but very visceral things. Sports, recreational drugs, and on line community games will continue to enthrall millions of people. As virtual reality and cyberspace communities displace older social interaction, and as physical thrill seeking escalates with ultra-technological and bionic appliances, people will revel in the feedback they get from their tribal group."

[LizW]

16. Our newly-elected city council cut funding for schools by 76%

They claim the city must have the money for police and fire protection. This could cause the loss of over 100 teachers.

The State legislature is also trying to figure out a legal way to take tax dollars earmarked for education and use them for other things. They claim the state needs the money and "the schools have a surplus".

This is Alabama. And they're claiming the schools have a surplus.

:eyes:

[itzamirakul]

19. As our public schools become fewer in number...

perhaps one good thing will come of this mess the Republicans are making of our free school system. Perhaps, students will come to VALUE an education more than they do now.

The voucher program is designed to dismantle Brown v. Board. Private schools CAN and WILL refuse to take students who do not fit certain criteria. Racial segregation will return. Separate but Equal will return. Soon, parents will have to pay more and more for their children to attend charter schools, because the government will begin to devalue the voucher and cut the programs that fund even the vouchers.

There will be few, if any public schools left, few qualified teachers, vouchers that cannot pay for the child's education, parents who do not earn enough to pay for tuition to grade school or high school, and as I heard one Republican female say, "You are not guaranteed a FREE education."

[LizW]

22. It's so frustrating

I believe in free public education. I would whether I had children or not. But people here in Alabama just don't get it. They don't care whether other people's kids get an education or not, and they don't see that failure to educate the populace results in poverty and a lowered standard of living for everyone. The same people who rage against taxes and claim that the schools have all the money they need also complain that they can't find workers who can do the jobs they need done.

We moved to this city before we even had kids because it was anomalous in this backward state. Even though the area is very "red", there are few private schools and the voters have voted numerous times to raise their taxes in order to support public schools. The schools are terrific, in spite of rapid growth, and the high transiency of students.

But in the last couple of years, the politicians have started using the schools as a political tool to gain votes. We have a large Mexican immigrant population, and in the last mayoral and city council election, xenophobia became rampant. This xenophobia is affecting schools like integration did in most parts of Alabama in the sixties. People are openly resentful of educating the Mexican chidren, who they call "illegals". The new mayor and city council are pandering to this prejudice.

I predict that private schools will start flooding in here within the next year, and the downward spiral will accelerate.

It is so sad. This is a great school system. My children are getting a far better education than I ever got, but we have eight more years before they graduate from high school, and I am so afraid that bigotry and apathy will ruin the schools for my kids and all the others that will come after them.

[misanthrope]

29. Get used to it...

...as Alabama is the model that the nation is headed toward with alarming speed.

And where is this "blue" oasis you speak of? I've been in Alabama for decades and never heard of such a place.

I received a good education simply because (1) my mother taught me to read at age 3 realizing that instilling that in me would help create a enjoyment with learning, and (2) we slipped me through every loophole we could find.

I attended grades 4-7 at an experimental school that was eager to take children from around the B'ham area at no cost to their parents. I attended grades 8-12 in an exclusive suburban public school system when my mother discovered an apartment complex nestled away there. Of course, part of the value of that secondary education was away from the chalkboard as I got to see what the privileged, and their attitudes toward the less fortunate, were like.

[LizW]

31. No blue oasis

It's quite red here (Hoover). But in spite of being red, the residents supported public schools because there are few private schools, and because a good school system keeps property values high.

Sounds like you went to school in a similar place, like Mountain Brook or Vestavia.

But the suburban school systems are built on white flight. It's not that the attitudes are any different from the rest of Alabama, its just that a bubble forms temporarily that keeps the suburban schools good for a while. I'm afraid Hoover's bubble is about to burst. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. They must fund the schools differently in Alabama

I can't imagine a city council having this much control over school financing. Here in MO, where I work, and in KS, where I live, school financing is by the local taxpayers and the state. Local govt doesn't have this kind of control over school budgets.

[sellitman]

17. John Madden isn't dumb.

He is great at what he does. Unlike "bush the lesser". I love listening to a Madden announced game. I agree with the rest of your post though.

[JohnnyCougar]

36. I know he isn't dumb...he was a good football coach.

They just have him say dumb things because they think that's what entertains the football watching male. I guess I wasn't clear on that...ovbiously the guy has brains, but when he's announcing, he talks about the dumbest things.

[July]

18. It's cool to be mean, too.

I can't figure out how these "traditional values" types think it's just fine to boo Kerry, tell Leahy to fuck himself, scream "Get out of Cheney's house" to the Gores, shout down guests on their television shows, etc. My very liberal parents taught me that treating people this way is unkind and rude, and that differing with others can be managed in a rational and polite way.

Oh, and it's VERY cool to be selfish.

[SmokingJacket]

47. I noticed this too: I hope it's a short-lived fad.

Like reality television.

But once meaness is the new normal, how do you get kindness back?

[KnowerOfLogic]

59. Yes but 'You have to be cruel to be kind' is their excuse, i.e.,

being a nasty SOB to the poor teeming masses actually helps them by 'encouraging them to be self-sufficient,' and as far the gays and the liberals and such, well, if you want to help them, you have to show them the error of their ways. 'Tolerating' them will only encourage more to act in these morally unacceptable way. Problem is, these dumb-asses don't realize that they are cutting off their own noses to spite their faces.

[pdxmom]

20. Intelligence isn't valued

at a very young age. Popularity is much more important. And the schools encourage this, from what I've seen. They aren't held accountable for turning things in on time or use correct grammar and spelling, for example. Using IM-speak is how they write a term paper. And parents seem to not mind this, because they're more concerned about what extra-curriculars their child is in. We have become dumber and are spoon fed everything.

[itzamirakul]

32. And now Popularity is being expanded with

the advent of all this "extreme makeover" activity to change one's personal appearance. In many instances, young people have simply stopped "valuing" education, yearning instead for some "instant gratification" like becoming the "American Idol." Yearning to morph into some super-beautiful image from a magazine. In the meantime, they are advertised into salivating for designer clothing - shoes that cost $800/pair for young ladies - with no thought to that night's homework or saving the money for future education.

When you look at all the young sports and music stars who have earned millions without necessarily finishing high school or college, you see what many young people value today, over intelligence and/or education.

"Dear God: Make me a millionaire. And do it RIGHT NOW!"

I'm what they call, "old school." I believe in discipline and I mean real punishment, not just a slap on the wrist. I do believe that kids need to learn respect, not fear. The value of education must be reawakened in them.

[Rose Siding]

23. Jenna Bush pronounced the word "Sioux" as "sigh-ox"

That's with private schooling, 4 years at Harvard and a mom who's worked in libraries.

I tried to figure out why Laura would have handed that story to the NYT- Maybe it's because she knows that stupid people like you more if they think you are stupid like them.

[Poiuyt]

33. Are you kidding?

Did she really??

[PA Democrat]

42. She really did

Check this out:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/20/21622/0340

[devilgrrl]

35. Jenna didn't go to Harvard.

She went to Univ. of Texas.

[kweerwolf]

24. The war on public education

Several years ago I happened upon a book titled "Eternal Hostility" by a former NPR reporter who covered the religious right extensively. The book is about the rise of the religious right in politics.

One of the things I remember most strongly in the book was a chapter on education. In it he quotes some right-wing religious leaders as encouraging their flock to run for local school boards and, once elected, to use their influence to wreck public education. The idea behind that approach was to drive more students out of public schools and into private Christian schools where they can be trained to become "an army of God" (shades of the madrashas in Islamic countries).

At the time I thought it sounded more than a bit paranoid, but after watching what happened in Kansas, I'm not so sure. First Kansas drew national attention with the whole removing evolution from educational standards debate. Then the legislature was taken over by conservative Republicans who are strangling education with funding cuts and a refusal to consider new taxes. (Fortunately, the courts are now stepping in to the education funding battle.)

[porkrind]

26. Witness the rise of "Intelligent Design"

It's all about bread and circus for the masses. The less sophisticated the masses are, the easier it is to control them. This is why right-wingers undermine education at every turn.

[Sir Jeffrey]

28. So true...

I am a senior in college and I see how the brainwashing continues into young adulthood. This is where you are supposed to be refining your critical thinking skills. And in a way, you can, so long as it doesn't conflict with the views of the profs (which undermines the entire process of developing "critical thinking" skills).

BUt how do you convince someone that instead of going to a frat party and getting laid it is better to stay at home and read? It is easy and comforting to be stupid. It is attractive to buy into the rightwing ideology becuse it gives you a way to answer questions that you are too dumb think about on your own.

But the OP is right. Americans are brought up on TV, celebrity worship, junk food, 'screw your neighbor before he screws you' and 'piss on the lazy minorities since they get enough handouts'. Of course none of that is based on reality, but who needs reality when your local conservative Republican Jesus representative is only reinforcing your beliefs?

[Caria]

37. Ummm... not always

I refuse to tell students where I stand on the issues I assign as discussion and/or paper topics. But some are so unaccustomed to this that they insist they cannot do the assignment without knowing my opinion.

I worry that the NCLBA's emphasis on standardized testing is going to make it even harder for students to develop critical thinking skills.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. That was my experience, too, Caria

When I taught content courses (like Japanese culture or Japanese literature in translation) as opposed to skill courses (beginning or intermediate Japanese), I was constantly faced with students who would fare poorly on essay tests, and when I'd talk to them about it, they'd say, "But I couldn't figure out what you wanted."

What I wanted was for them to think about the question and offer a supported opinion about it. But very few students seemed able to do this. They either fell apart completely or simply regurgitated what I had said in my lectures. The international students, many of them non-native speakers of English from places like Indonesia and (then) Yugoslavia, seemed more capable of writing a logical essay question (although with a few grammatical errors) than the typical American student.

This was in spite of the fact that Americans like to criticize foreign school systems for "not fostering creativity" and "not teaching students how to think." There's more than a little projection going on here.

By the way, welcome to DU! :hi:

[Sir Jeffrey]

50. I did not mean to imply that all profs do that...

which I think was implied in my post. Sorry. Far from true, I have found that I am unable to express my ideas or dissenting opinions in classes taught by conservatives and rightwing christians. The Libs actually encourage dissent and freethinking, so long as it is based in reality.

Your students might have a fear of expressing their thoughts stemming from prior experiences with getting graded down for expressing their opinions. I have experienced that. I have gotten B's in classes that I know I should have been given A's in simply because I made the mistake of expressing a dissenting opinion. I am not talking about getting a C in statistics (which I did and deserved), but in classes taught in my major by Repubs like Public Administration, American Govt, etc.

I understand totally your point of NCLB's emphasis on "teaching to the test." I have first hand experience with something similar. I have taken the Law School Admissions Test, which was a joke since it is supposed to test your analytical skills and whatnot. However, if you can afford to spend $1,000 on the Powerscore Prep Classes you can learn how to "beat" the test and get into Harvard over poor folk like me. So, the LSAT, much like the NCLB "testomania", doesn't really seem to test much more than one's ability to learn how to master the test.

I have not been exposed to NCLB since my daughter is too young for school and I was out of High School before it passed. From what I have heard, though, it is worthless.

[misanthrope]

30. How ironic...

...If you go back to the root of "cool" and those who coined, perpetuated and embodied it (jazz musicians), stupidity was not a component. Quite the opposite. Being "cool" was a result of being observant and intelligent while standing outside the status quo. Those who were "cool" were not afraid to take risk for higher ideals, would stand up to the tyranny of the masses and were guided by an inner-compass not fostered by the public-at-large. Those who were "cool" were in no way ashamed of humble or rough beginnings, but carried as a badge of honor the fact that they could rise above the same thing that dragged so many down.

Fast forward to today where hip-hop culture ridicules education and intelligence, where it's considered "selling out" to feed your mind. Our culture is like water, constantly seeking the path of least resistance in a race to the lowest level.

[Poiuyt]

34. I guess I'd rather be a member of the Intellectual Elite

[ChairOne]

38. That's soooo much easier in these Animal Farm days.... /eom

[shrike]

39. I've felt this way for a long time

Glad to see other people agree with me. It's the celebration of the dumb.

[cire4]

40. The real problem is that its NOT COOL to be smart

Because if you are smart, you are labeled as an "elitist," "out-of-touch," "bookworm." You are despised by half this country because of your general "know-it-allness." Your own President, as Bob Woodward put it, has "disdain" for you because of your ability to think in rational, not ideological, terms. Society condemns you if you'd rather spend your time reading a good book in a cafe than getting drunk in a bar or watching the latest reality TV masterpiece that corporate America has forcefed you.

All over the country, book-reading intellectuals, college professors, and Bohemian artists are not respected by the mainstream. And that's the problem with America.

[rockymountaindem]

54. Well, perhaps I just had a sheltered experience in high school

but that's not the impression I had. I don't want to shoot my mouth off, but I was one of the smart kids. I was in the most advanced classes, and I was two years ahead of everyone else (started at age 12, graduated HS and started college at 16) and I graduated in the top 2% of my class. I never got the impression that I was an outcast as a result of these factors. If anything, I felt worse about being kind of short (wouldn't ya know it I have had a bit of a growth spurt after graduation!). As for the brainpower, I think that I got a lot of respect from many people who did look up to me. Even people who didn't know my name would say "there goes the smart kid" when I walked by. Of course there were people who tried to get me to do their work for them (I didn't). When people had a problem they came to me.

While some kids might try to exclude the smart kiddies, there is another source of encouragement which comes from the teachers. I realized about halfway through HS that there were also "smart" and "cool" teachers. The cool ones generally didn't know their subjects and had a horrible time in class, but made up for it with videos and "ethnic food day" and the like. I felt a lot of pride as being one of the kids who could hold his own with the smart teachers and outdo the "cool" teachers on many occasions. The smart teachers were really nice to the smart kids and gave us a lot of respect. Oh, and another thing... the "smart" teachers were all liberals, and the "cool" ones were all Republicans. Go figure.

[tblue37]

41. I have an essay on my "Teacher, Teacher" website called

"It's Stupid to Be Smart."

http://www.teacherblue.homestead.com/stupidsmart.html

I guess that's the other side of the fact that it's cool to be stupid.

[ZombieNixon]

43. Very true!

Also, it starts at a young age. Middle schools are divided into gangstas, preps and nerds (in general).

Gangstas: popular within their own groups, not the sharpest knives the drawer, feared by everyone else. Do not talk to unless you too wear oversized JNCOs and listen to nothing but Snoop Dogg all day. Expect to see on "America's Most Wanted" some day.

Preps: again, popular in their exclusive cliques, overly fastidious with their clothing, generally fairly intelligent, but hold themselves to straight Bs so as to remain "cool." This species is often found adorning ceremonial posts on the student council. The Machiavellis of the public schools.

Nerds: lower than the dead bug stuck in the gum on the bottom of your shoe, unless you need help with your homework. If you show tham favor, they will begin to cling to you like a leech to an open head wound, but beware of openly shunning them, for they will make your kid's life hell when you buy his way into Harvard.

[progressivebydesign]

44. Agreed! (But I like John Madden.. he's not a dummy).

I'm shocked with the stupidity that is rampant in America. Television and advertising have killed America. Sounds simplistic, but it's true. I was ashamed when my penpal from Belgium came to visit, and told me all about her son's school work. An average college student here could not do the work of their high school students.

It's hip to be stupid and classless. But.. I refuse to go there. I refuse to let my stepdaughter's go there. In this house BOOKS rule, the t.v. is an amusement for a few hours a week (no FOX shows, no reality tv). Thank you notes are written, gifts are handmade, and discussion is a regular activity. I'm not giving in to the morans!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Minnesota author Bill Holm wrote about his experiences in China

in a book called Coming Home Crazy. One of the chapters that resonated the most with me was the account of reverse cultural shock upon returning to teach in a rural Minnesota state university.

While his Chinese students had been excited about studying English and American literature, and were eager to have intellectual discussions with him, he came home to the States to find students who would greet assignments with comments like, "Do we have to read the whole book?"

[ChairOne]

49. Chinese high-school grads routinely outscore US college grads...

... on the GRE...

nuff said.

America is no longer considered THE place to go if a foreigner wants a good education - as-good-or-better are available outside of the US. It won't be long before an American education is counted *against* people...

LOL - We'll have the market cornered on ID-science tho - rofl - cry - rofl - cry

[Az]

48. Its a reaction to a diverse insulated society

It takes effort to converse in a diverse society without stepping on people's toes. At first we may make a real effort to maintain the dialog but in time entropy takes over. As effort to maintain connectivity drops insulation sets in. Different cultural groups circle the wagons and determine the knowledge their children need to advance in the world. Anything outside that view becomes nuance and a distraction.

With this comes an end to critical thought. As critical thought is typically turned in on personal views it is eschewed by these insular groups. Those that attempt to apply critical thought are socially rejected. And thus the road to embraced ignorance is taken.

[Nikia]

51. It was at my schools through high school too

The smart kids were made fun of. Since our school district paid below average and wasn't known for having good students, many of the younger teachers also didn't really encourage smart students either since they themselves hadn't been top students.At least nothing really bad happened to these students other than suffering socially. My mother, who recently got a doctorate in education, toured and talked with students and staff from some the worst intercity schools in the state where she lives now. Some of the best students there literally feared for their lives.
Regardless of what form harassment of good students takes, this certainly has a negative effect on the potential of students. It does not help either though, despite official rhetoric, that many companies do not really want smart employees in the lower ranks either.
I went to a college where it was good to be smart. I remember being told by an upper classman on the cross country team when I first started as a freshman "It is good if you like to study, we are all geeks here." I liked being at college. Now, in the real world, I am faced with the anti intellectualism of most people who I work with and meet. They probably went to high schools like mine even though I live a long way away from that school.

[pippin]

52. A Nation of Dumb People

can be manipulated easily. Part of the whole right wing philosophy as far as I can see and the media is right there to help move this country in the direction of abject stupidity.

Stupid movies, dorky heroes and pop icons are today's version of Marx's opiate of the masses. A nation doped up on cultural garbage can't be anything except putty in the hands of dictators.

[RockStar]

53. dumb is not the word I would choose try"idiot, stupid, moron, lunatic"

[Karenina]

55. Watch yo mouf, yung'un

les' I slap you into next week! Tante Call-me-after-4-on-Sunday weighing in here. Don'tchoo go be dissin' Coach Madden. He understands and can communicate the GAME. He be the sense in the nonsense and you need to show some RESPECK fo yo elders. :spank:

[KnowerOfLogic]

56. Yes; and it's now cool to be very servile to and unquestioning of gov't

authority. Dissent and vigilence against gov't abuses is clearly no longer as cool as it once was. If anything, disagreement with the alimighty bush gov't is now considered 'being difficult.'

[Bake]

57. Carson: It was cool to be smart.

What a contrast. With Johnny Carson, it was cool to be smart.

Sigh.

Bake

[Parche]

58. tweedle dumb and tweedle stupid

I thought it was hip to be square?