Lack of civil discourse on DU?

[SouthernDem2004]

I started a thread around here in reference to being a Police Officer and asking if anyone had questions. I even posted in the thread a disclaimer stating I would ignore insults, personal attacks and profanity. Shortly after starting the topic I started receiving private messages warning me I was about to get assaulted with hostile posts. These PMs were actually rather positive in some aspects and encouraging.

Well I only ended up putting 6 people on ignore which I think was pretty good and would probably be about the same numer on any website. Ignoring rude behavior is always the best response. Everyone could read their posts and determine for themselves their value or lack there of... Amazing people will reply to a post and include lies about what was originally posted. Its not like the reader did not just read the original post and can tell the reply is a lie. People are interesting sometimes...

My question: Why do people feel the need to be rude to people that disagree with them and why the need to put profanity in a text message? It is not like the profanity slipped out in normal conversation. People intentional type it. Sure, it is a free country and you can type it here if the mods allow. To alot of people profanity is the tool of the ignorant. Alot of the people that I have conversed here about the subject are like me and mismiss any post containing such. Why not be more articulate... I know some of the posters are just young but some are not.

Here is an example I posted in another thread: Ask a Republican if they are for paperless ballots and see what they say. I bet they are against it also. Now walk up to a Republican calling him a lying, murderous idiot and ask him if he is for paperless ballots....I bet he did not hear the question.... What if every other word they said was profane... How many people would listen?

Just a thought and yes I know some people are just going to respond with profanity, insults and personal attacks. :) In between the pointless post there maybe some incite.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Because it's an anonymous message board...

...and people who would never be rude to someone in person become complete jerks behind the cloak of anonymity.

[Lefty48197]

12. Yeah, it's amazing how rude some of those assh*oles can be

when they hide behind the cloak of anonymity.

[bahrbearian]

2. It is a learned behavior, encouraged by our leaders.

if you asked a republican leader to go Cheney himself and how he felt about paper ballots he'd answer "yes,I think they are fine."

[Lerkfish]

3. unfortunately, I think its the nature of internetn BBS boards..

tlhere will always be a certain amount of people who cannot be civil, a certain amount who are occasionally uncivil, etc.
The difference is the relative anonymity of the poster, it emboldens the uncivil.

I've been on various boards, of all different types (political and nonpolitical) for over 10 years, and its always the same.

I sometimes get suckered into the fray, myself, so I don't think it always reflects on the individual so much as the medium.

FWIW.


also: there are certain professions that act as lightning rods to people: Police, lawyers, journalists, etc.
or, if you state you're a christian, that attracts a lot of people attacking your religion...
In these cases, I think its more a case of historic negative baggage due to previous bad experiences rather than the present person.

[da_chimperor]

4. Please do not make the mistake of assuming those of us

whom are less aged than yourself are unable to respond articulately. :) Remember that passions frequently run high on DU, and that the anonymity offered by the Internets makes some individuals feel as if civility is an unneeded formality. This included myself at times. I would also like to make the case that the effective use of profanity can often add to the impact or tone of a comment. It is a perfectly valid portion of the English language, after all. And sometimes you just need to let off some steam with a stream of fucks, shits, and bitches. :D

[bpilgrim]

5. you reap what you sow

peace

[SouthernDem2004]

10. In what way? Check the thread: Ask the Police:

What exactly did I sow?

[bpilgrim]

14. it was certainly forgettable

but it was along the lines of 'thats how i see it and if you can't, well then, you just don't get it'.

thats how i took it and it turned me right off so i left because i took you as a troll... only time will tell i suppose, but I decided to respond to this thread, since i've seen many threads like this one started here on DU during my time, and it is always folks who are whining about the rest of the place not seeing things as you do and hinting at a purge or worse more rules.

it's a misinformed meme, IMHO.

if you see something that is not civil deal with it directly, in that thread or in the worst cases alert the mods, they are great here and don't often tolerate rude and/or insulting posts.

amyways... i gotta go shovel, if you want to post a link to that other thread i will be more specific, maybe i was wrong since i am going by memory and it's been a few days now and i only read your first few posts.

:hi:

peace

[SouthernDem2004]

16. Lol

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2965544&mesg_id=2965544&page=

Basing a judgement on something you do not remember... Nice

[bpilgrim]

21. "I do not buy the whole medicinal garbage"

"People pushing medical marijuna are just looking to get their foot in the door and legalize it outright. "
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2965544&mesg_id=2965601&page=

reveals plenty of ignorance and arrogance.

BTW: i was being honest when i said i could be wrong going by memory but i see that it was fairly accurate. reap what you sow

good day, sir

peace

[SouthernDem2004]

27. Reply:

I was stating my opinions and even stated all I knew about Marinol is what I read on the news. I am ignorant on the subject of Marinol. I fail to see any arrogance in stating an opinion. If you do not think a large number of people pushing for medical do not want it fully legalized... well whatever....

[bpilgrim]

30. well whatever....

reap what you sow

peace

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tx_dem41]

76. What does "holly" mean?

Why would you call SouthernDem a "freeper troll"? Besides, being against the rules, I have no idea what powerful cognizant thinking process you took to reach that conclusion.

[bahrbearian]

78. Go ahead talk down to me. I didn't know it was against the Rule's

I've been called a troll for calling Kerry, "Bush-lite" I don't think I was wrong then. Oh those are big words "powerful cognizant thinking process" are you trying to insult me, isn't that against the Rules.

[tx_dem41]

80. Ummmm....I wasn't talking down to you.

I had no idea what you meant by "holly". It throws off the rest of your rant.

I just want to know why you think he is a troll.

[bvar22]

62. Now, that is a RUDE comment!

*

[drdtroit]

79. Kind of reminiscent of all the pundits and media people

who overwhelmingly just panned "Fahrenheit 911". 90% of them when asked if they saw it said "no, but ..."

[bpilgrim]

106. good thing we got a paper trail

which i quoted and linked to...

i never said i didn't read his thread just that my memory could be off but as it turned out it wasn't.

i know... WHATEVER, eh?

peace

[chiburb]

19. Funny, that's how I read it too...

Especially the exchange with Prof GAC.

Time will tell...

[Rowdyboy]

6. Its really easy to be a badass on an anonymous board....

But a VERY thick skin is necessary to survive around here. The best thing you can possibly do is use your "ignore" feature regularly. Check is every month or two and you'll find that many of the people you have listed there have been tombstoned.

[patricia92243]

7. Your "disclaimer" would only antaginize people and make them MORE

likely to say something insulting, etc. Sorry - but true.

[SouthernDem2004]

9. Maybe but:

it would be rude to ignore people and not tell them why. Also, It let people know that if they wanted a response what the conditions were.

[McKenzie]

8. part of the problem is that text

lacks body language, voice inflexion and the other means by which we communicate. Words alone make up a very small part of our means of communicating what we really mean. So it's very easy to misinterpret what someone is actually trying to convey. There can be overt rudeness. On the other hand, sometimes irony is intended but the reader fails to grasp that.

I used to mod on a big board and I've seen it countless times.

[Speed8098]

11. It's a lack of knowledge

I find it happening to me when I frequent a right wing forum and post facts that cannot be debunked.
The frustration becomes obvious when I start getting called names.

The opposing debater knows they have been beaten and will not readily accept defeat.

I read some of the posts on the thread you started, and I was embarrassed by some of the reactions of my fellow DUers.

I never read ALL of the posts as the count was over 350 at the time I saw it, but from what I did see, you were being polite, and articulate.

Aside from the trolls, we all come here to share our thoughts with like minded people. Some people don't respond well to opposing points of view, hence the profanity and name calling.

Don't let it get you down. Personally, I think debate is healthy and welcome a respectful exchange of views, as do most of the people here.

[CBHagman]

13. There's a lot of gratuitous nastiness.

I think the posters above are right to point out that anonymity facilitates that, but I'd also point to immaturity, regardless of the participants' chronological age, and a lot of old-fashioned anger and grief in which people allow their disappointment and sorrow to build divisions between them and their natural allies.

Some of it is suspicion of anything different. Some of it is stereotyping. Witness the inability of some of our participants to look at Christianity in a nuanced way. I have a client who, when I referred to evangelical Christians, referred to them in the next breath as "religious fanatics," even though I'd made no such claim about the people I was talking about.

Sometimes I think, too, that our TV and newspapers are in love with this ironic, detached, we're-too-cool-to-care mode that basically involves looking down on as many people as possible and being enamored of one's own supposed wit. Empathy is eschewed and detachment is essential. I see a lot of this among Washington Post writers who seem to make light of nearly every issue. I'm not saying I expect them to lose their sense of humor, just that they not lose their sense of proportion.

[LA lady]

15. That is why I never post

I am so fearful of every word I say because I see so many
people jump on anything that slightly disagrees with their
feelings. I am a member of many political boards and write a
lot on the others but I only read here. I have never been
banned or flamed on other boards. It makes us seem pretty mean
and I think it hurts DU.

[smbolisnch]

17. Welcome to DU LALady!

Not everyone here will jump on you if you disagree with their post!! :hi:

[Adelante]

20. Actually, you're doing it right IMO

Sit back, wait, read, as you are. Sooner or later you will feel comfortable, you will feel familiar with individual folks, and that's the time to start posting when you want to say something. If somebody gives you a fight on it, so what. You just need to feel at home and that takes a little while.

:hi:

[txaslftist]

107. Hey...is that Betty Paige?

What a great avatar.

[indigobusiness]

40. LA lady, welcome...What are some other political boards you like?

I've got to hand it to the DU Administrators for the design of this board. I've never found one more comfortable to use. But I'm curious about others.

[SmokingJacket]

67. It's okay if people jump on you.

It doesn't hurt! ;-)

I think it's good practice for people here: you can state your beliefs honestly and without fear of being beaten up physically, only verbally.

Later, when you get used to saying what you think and taking crap for it, you can move on to writing letters to the editor and being a loudmouth at parties.

It's IMPORTANT to say what you believe and to defend it.

Who cares if a bunch of anonymous people disagree?

[Old Mouse]

110. Welcome LA Lady!

Yes, it can get nasty in here, and honest and heartfelt opinions are often met with misplaced criticism and scorn, but the only way for it to get better is for those of us who prefer not to insult and harass to out number those who do.

I hope you keep posting. We need more activity by people who want to discuss issues fairly.

[indigobusiness]

39. Gratuitous nastiness is the distrubing element.

It goes beyond casual use of langueage etc. It is alarming how abusive and vindictive the motive and tone of a "liberal" discussion can become, when protected by anonymity.

This speaks ill of our culture in general. The debate of ideas should be kept as much in the abstract (and without rancor) as possible. At least among 'friends'. BBs are not place for taking out frustrations or grinding axes.

The uncivility of message boards is endemic, but some are far better than others. Agreement on issues isn't important, civility - in expressing differences of opinion - is.

[Old Mouse]

111. "Manners make us men"

is more true than people realize.

Well spoken, indigobusiness.

[neebob]

134. Manners make us men?

So what you're saying is if women have manners, they become men. Yes?

[Old Mouse]

137. Do you prefer...

"Womanizers make us women"

But really, the old saying reminds us that advanced culture is an act of effort and will - not our natural state of being. Relaxation of the complex social etiquettes we maintain begins a slide into our more bestial nature.

[SemperEadem]

122. It seems the gratuitous nastiness has increased

since the election, and it has certainly spiked when DU was featured in the New York Times and on faux a few weeks back...

It wasn't this acrimonious before September--but lately, it's gotten down right ugly in here--a lot more RW talking points being used as masks by those who say they are liberal, but what they write certainly doesn't sound like it.

[Old Mouse]

139. Exactly n/t

[cags]

18. You are being a bit close-minded and judgemental

Now I understand not responding to personal insults and attacks, but to not respond to people that use profanity is unfair.

"To alot of people profanity is the tool of the ignorant."
That is extremely judgmental of people you don't even know. Using profanity is also a sign of being comfortable in your surroundings. I certainly wouldn't use profanity when speaking to a grocery checker, but when I feel I am among friends I will.

I think you are the one who should be a bit more tolerant of others instead of asking others to keep themselves in check just to appease your sense of rudeness. Now you have every right to ignore people who use profanity, but I think you will be missing out on conversations with some very intelligent and enlightened people.

Was that articulate enough?

[CBHagman]

25. Yes, but are you using profanity AGAINST your friends?

Moreover, do you expect all people to be comfortable with profanity? Do you expect all situations to be open to profanity? For example, a job interview, a meeting with your prospective in-laws, a talk with the new neighbor?

I think the fact that we are strangers here, for the most part, means we have to be judicious in our use of language. Again, this format allows us to hide, but I don't think it should prevent us from being a bit introspective.

[cags]

32. I think you need to reread my post. n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

26. Reply:

Ah but you miss the point of the thread. It was for people to ask questions to a Police Officer. You are not going to get many chances to get direct answers from a Cop. I set the conditions to which I would respond. I do not care if people want to use profanity but I do not want to read it as is my right. If you want to ask me a question them just do not use profanity. That was not a debate thread.

[cags]

31. I am not responding to that thread, I'm responding to this one

If I had questions for "a cop" I would have respected your wishes in that thread since you had made them known beforehand. But in this thread you are asking people to not use profanity on this board, and that is not your right. It is not fair to call people names like "ignorant" because they choose to use profanity. I find that offensive. Everyone is going to be offended by certain things, but you are in a highly diverse place, and a little tolerance of people who are not like you goes a long way. Especially if you want people to respect what you have to say.

[SouthernDem2004]

36. I never set conditions for my responses on this thread.

[cags]

37. I didn't say that you did

[Demit]

22. Very few/not a lot of sustained debates here anyway, I've noticed.

It seems like the energy at DU, or the climate or something, is to either start threads yourself or to see how quickly you can chime in on a thread before it drops off the first page. This is my only message board, but sometimes I read discussions on Kos and other places, and the threads there are in the form of debate, with thoughtful back-and-forth, and sometimes go on for days. Very rare here.

I kind of remember that thread you started, and in the main (as I recall) you weren't being challenging in your tone. And you were responding to posts either by trying to stay on point, or by trying to respond honestly to whatever point each poster brought up.

Threads like these are interesting to watch as they progress. You've got your hair-trigger, chip-on-the-shoulder types who are always going to be instantly snarky. You've got your clever-dick types who are only into making superficial comments so that they can be, well, clever. If these are the ones who respond early, it sets the tone for the thread, and there can be a lot of piling on.

Lastly, I think we as Dems feel quite bruised by the success Repubs have had at speaking with one voice, and we sort of feel that maybe if WE did that we'd be better off. Hence the "go somewhere else if you feel that way" attitude that tends to shout folks down for thinking differently. The power in numbers thing. However, the reason we ARE Democrats is because we also instinctively abhor anyone telling us to act and think in lockstep.

Well, that's my piece. Stick with us, is my advice. The challenge is to articulate your point of view in a way that gets people thinking about what you are saying.

[Mudcat]

23. Hegellian Dialect is dying

A modicum of decorum allows for exchange of ideas, retroflection and introspection, with the goals of disgarding the less rational and improving one's own beliefs.

But in this modern age of capitalism, its largesse, and resulting intellectual sloth, people no longer have an immediate survival drive to learn through thesis/antithesis/synthesis -- they just want to win. Decades of mass production and mass marketing have taught us not to think, but rather to consume, like the good little rats multimegacorps have trained us to be. Tooth and claw, win the race, it's all that matters.

And thus, we score scorching points with tooth and claw, at the expense of possibly learning something tangible about ourselves and others, at continuing a centuries-old trend toward enlightenment.

Now, We go our own way, we do it alone in the midst of a crowd, and to hell with building consensus or extending any empathy towards others.

Our President epitomizes this hypothesis, as do his adversaries.

[Deja Q]

24. Not from personal experience, mind you, but they may have had bad run-ins

with the police.

Depends on their point of view. And it's easy to fall to knee-jerk reactions (and I do that often myself), but there's always the other point of view.

I think you're being a little haughty in your post. Not undeservedly so, given your treatment. But they've had bad treatment too. Not from you. But others. It is said that the actions of a few can destroy the whole.

If people would get over the knee-jerk reaction and start asking questions, we'd be better off... but if nobody would after 9/11, then I will be haughty myself and say there is no hope for humanity.

[pdxmom]

28. What you've experienced is pretty normal

I was a manager on a huge message board for 8 years, and found that there were those that would say things that you know they wouldn't ever dare to say in a face-to-face group setting. And the bigger the board, the more likely you are to run into those people.

The Internet has given these people the anonymity to bring their nastiness to the fore. It's too bad, but you have to take the bad with the good in order to share your thoughts and views with thousands of others.

[AP]

29. I think some DU'ers aren't really Democrats and take every opporutnity

to try to reinforce every negative stereotype about Democrats.

In your case, the stereotype is a hostility towards the police.

[drdtroit]

81. WORD! n/t

[tx_dem41]

84. Funny....I think I saw it the exact opposite way.

The people attacking SouthernDem were doing a damn fine job of reinforcing that stereotype.

SouthernDem was doing a damn fine job of being a person willing to take a lot of time out of his day and answer people's questions.

[drdtroit]

88. Sorry

I was only agreeing with "I think some DU'ers aren't really Democrats". I should have made that point. Thanks

[tx_dem41]

89. After reading another post of yours...I was wondering why you were ..

agreeing. BTW, my response was to the person you were responding to, not directed at you.

[AP]

104. That's what I was saying.

I agree with you. "In your case" didn't mean "what you are doing." It meant "the response to your posts..."

[bvar22]

124. too much time really...

...almost like its his job or something.

He has a twin, too.


Southern Democrat 2005

[bling bling]

98. I think that too, especially lately.

I've been reading this board for a long time, and I've never seen so many comments that are just downright nasty from people perpetrating to be democrats. I honestly think there are pretend-dems here with an agenda to make dems look stupid or intolerant or looney. I'm glad to see someone else has picked up on that too. I just hope the perpetrators get bored soon, because it brings down the quality of the board for the rest of us.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

33. we obviously need DU Post Police Force!

just a little joke there :D

seriuosly though, on any message board you are going to have posters that simply antagonize you. welcome to the anonymous internet.

also, i have to agree with a previous a previous poster and say that many ignorant people may use profanity, but not all profanity users are ignorant. So, i disagree with "alot of people" about profanity being the tool of the ignorant.

i'm sure you have some guys you work with who are probably pretty proficient in profanity.............. perhaps? :silly:

[SouthernDem2004]

35. Yes, speaking it is one thing. Typing it seems sad for some reason.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

38. why does it seem sad?

using profanity does not automatically negate one's point.

if you have a problem with it that is fine, but that doesn't mean that such a poster is an idiot or "sad", it only means that you don't like the words he/she used.

[SouthernDem2004]

43. Reply:

I never called them an idiot or sad. I stated it seems said to post profanity. Clearly it would be just as easy to find another word. I am one of those people that thinks it sounds uneducated. Does it mean that person is an idiot or the like? No. Read the post containing profanity on these forums and you will often find them to be pointless.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

46. i agree, you didn't call them an idiot or sad.

you just inferred that they are most likely ignorant.

"To alot of people profanity is the tool of the ignorant."

i take this sentence to mean that you believe that most people who use profanity are ignorant. but, hey i could be reading alot into it.

[SouthernDem2004]

49. Not really:

I do not think most people that speak profanity are ignorant but to be honest I do think it is ignorant to type it or post it. I am not saying that is correct but that is my personal first impression when I see it. That does not mean I think the person is ignorant in general. Just that I think they are making an ignorant post. Just my opinion...

[sweetheart]

100. WTF?

There are plenty of times, that even a very literate writer may choose
to use profanity to express a point... like that they feel really
fucked over, or that they are fucking pissed off... which is more
than pissed off... it is sooooo pissed off that one adds the explitive.

Or those words "what the fuck" WTF... or "get the fuck out of here" :-)
as a way in jest to mean "lighten up" though granted, it comes across
better in verbal speech than writing, without a smiley.

I find that DU is somewhat shakespearean, with so many characters
speaking a living play, and some speak with the old tongue, and others
with a very glib and modern shortspeech. Frankly, i find the worst
to be using text messaging writing, as it is unintelligible to people
who don't read it regularly, and even worse than swearing, just for
the mobile phoners.. its own language.. no need to glorify THAT horror
of the english language. Especially as one has a keyboard, and
hopefully can touch type.

Perhaps as well, some people on DU cannot touch type, and rather are
not able to "flow"... so writing an explitive is much more deliberate
when you hunt and peck a sentence.... but at the speed i write, a line
takes about 10 seconds.

Using foul language to insult people is just bad form, but i detect
that is not what you're on about. It seems you've just a problem
with street speech. In that regard, you're just being fuddyduddy.

[0007]

113. Police girl ain't gonna respond cuz you used bad words.

I wish police girl would STFU!

[tx_dem41]

114. It's wonderfully ironic, and quite funny...

...how you're just making his point for him. I appreciate when people make it that easy to decide. Thanks.

[0007]

117. How do you know it is a HE?

[sweetheart]

119. Welll ain't that dandy

Perhaps she/he is just living in a part of the nation where its very
full-of-shit moral... and here on DU, the metropolitan NYC and LA folks
like myself who learned their street language there... that these folks
are harshly judged by using that language as they normally would, in
common speech.

I've written on boards where the posting software removes all explitives
as part of the posting process, replacing with ****... and in extreme
cases, totall deletion.... and i don't bother to go back and post.

In my view, there is an uban poor population, who are not able to speak
without explitives, and though people might think they are being moral
not to use them, IMO, they are being elitist and deliberately not
relating to inner city america. I once had a computer science professor
reprimand me for putting the word "shit" in to the comments of my
code... and to that bloody tosser can go shag a sheep. Fuck em..
Eminem is right, and the common tongue is as shakespearean as any fancy
load of false moralism.

[tx_dem41]

74. When you direct profanity at your opponent...

you negate your point...IMO.

[seabeyond]

34. hey southern i use profanity for a whole lot of different

reasons. for example with the police i may suggest they often are so full of themselves in their own power they are basically telling us to bend over to be f*. and they do it with a smile on the face. i just cannot take seriously their contention that if i am a little over the speed limit that makes me a criminal. and it is surprising how many come to that conclusion and have said it out loud to me. now they can always go to if you have seen the accidents i have seen. i could easily argue that absurd statement, not that it much matters cause in speeding i have become the criminal in the mind of the cop

see, traffic laws are about the only laws i break, so as silly as it is that is all i can talk about the abuse of the cop, it is even more stupid i am able to talk about power struggles over traffic tickets.

but then you arent really talking the police end in this post.

profanity to me is used for different reasons. someone just cussing and calling names is a waste of time, because they dont have an argument so why bother. a cuss word here and there doesnt diminish the message and warrant dismissal necessarily, it is merely a word. a lot of people today are angry all the time. what i am finding all over in my children's world. if it is all over in the kids world i have to assume the parents are teaching these kids to walk life in anger. nice seems to have become a word from the past

[Tsiyu]

41. So you want a medal? What?

You seemed to want attention.

You got it.

You asked for questions.

You got them.

In one post on the previous thread, you claimed not to care whether people are rude or not.

Was that a lie? Or just conflicting testimony?

In my humble opinion, you enjoy feeling like an "authority" of sorts ( many cops I know have that authoritarian mindset-they like leading and controling others) and when everyone didn't play along, i.e. bow down to your infinite cop wisom you now say you DO CARE if people are rude.

This is a discussion board, not cop HQ or a courtroom. Take your licks like everyone else and quit whining, For God's Sake I AM SICK OF WHINERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leesa]

44. Agreed. I see a lot of wierd posts like this...I'm a .... ask me anything

and then later comes the whining post...you asked me this or you said that...What's this all about?

[SouthernDem2004]

47. You see alot...

because there appear to be alot of people who enjoy attacking others and have little to add.

[hfojvt]

83. I mostly see those in the lounge

Where they are not meant to be taken seriously.

[tx_dem41]

85. I took this one (referenced in the original post) seriously.

It was a good thread. I appreciated the time Southerndem spent participating in it.

[hfojvt]

96. So did I

My point was to distinguish SouthernDem's thread from the "lot of I am ... ask me" threads that the other poster was commenting on. The others are mostly in the lounge and meant to be weird/funny. But I appreciate the weird/funny threads sometimes too.

[SouthernDem2004]

45. Lol

Sick of whiners? What was your post? :)

I do not care if people are rude and I choose to ignore them. I am sorry if you do not understand the concept. I do not care if you are rude or not.

[cags]

48. Well then why did you even post this thread?

If you don't care that people are rude why did you bother to ask them not to be rude and not to use profanity.

Obviously you care

[SouthernDem2004]

51. A mere curiousity. It often...

seems like the majority of posters here basicly just seem to insult or attack people be they Republican or be they a Democrat that has the nerve not to believe everything they do. I was pleasantly surprised by the number of positive posts in the other thread and was curious as to why others though these forums were so hostile. It is a "Discussion" forum.

[cags]

53. You are cracking me up. n/t

[Tsiyu]

55. Huh?

You need to keep the story straight because it's going all over the place now.

First you talk about how rude people are on DU, then you say you don't care if they are rude or not, then you say you are so surprised by how pleasant people are on DU but then you make a statement about the rude people?

Um.

:wtf:


They don't ask you to testify very often, do they?

[SouthernDem2004]

56. Reply:

Reread my posts. Some people are rude, some people are not. Sorry, seems clear to me...

[Tsiyu]

57. And you are how old AND a cop and you just found out?

Wow. My condolences. I kinda figured that out in grade school.

So the point of this whole thread was to tell us this? Most of us know, Dear, but thanks for the head's up.

[cags]

59. I was thinking the same thing. LOL hence the cracking up.

but I didn't want to post it, because I didn't want to be rude.

Bwahahahahahaha

[Tsiyu]

60. I've gotten quite a chuckle me-self

This must be a very YOUNG cop!

[seabeyond]

63. lol lol lol your mama taught you well, so i ask the police

how respectful and nice are they being. i think this is one of my major issue with where our police force has gone in attitude. how much have they fed this in our society.

i suggest a lot. look at andy griffin in the 50's and the show cops today

do you think the police force has a part in this and should reflect a bit on their role in our community

there is a challenge for us citizens to be wary of the police, yet appreciative at the same time

[cags]

65. I don't judge all police by this one

For the most part I don't think they are that bad. I can't judge them all by the few I see on TV. My personal experiences have not been bad. And I think if I had to do thier job, it might change my attitude a bit too, so I won't judge unless I've lived in thier shoes.

This guy just makes me laugh, and wonder if he's got some split personality issues going on.

[seabeyond]

68. i totally respect and understand all the issues

there are so many factors. from experience i have seen it in different ways. in interacting with little kids all the way to my experiences and what have been said to me. always i will be respectful, but never will i become submissive. if that makes me a 43 year old intimidating, criminal female, then so be it. in my slippers

in order to become better, the simple recognition of attitude has to be done. "cops" gives us the understanding of a direction the police as a whole, (not individuals) has chosen. just as torture has given us a feel of the whole how the military is behaving, certainly not suggesting even the majority participate.

watching one of the many shows of cops, a female about 18, drunk and in a field, had a fight with boyfriend and said she was going to kill herself. they talked her out. a little thing. really little thing. she comes out of field arms up and stands there. they know she has no weapons, they know she is not a threat, the cop from behind, a big man, takes her to the ground as she had put hands out to be cuffed. the force and aggression was not necessary. and proudly this show put it on tv for our entertainment with out a thought there may be a problem here. i had a problem with it

that is attitude

[cags]

70. The attitude I can see past

Where I used to live in CA there was a lot of crime, and the cops had to deal with the nasty everyday, and I can see how that can jade them and make them wary in every situation. Now I'm not condoning bad behavior on thier parts, only understanding thier mindset.
Where I live now in TX there is no crime, the cops actually came to my door just to introduce themselves and welcome the new resident. They are polite and wave, they left me a little note on my door telling me that I left my garge door open overnight, and they are at my childrens schools every day, just to make sure traffic goes well. And because they don't see the nasty everyday, they are not jaded in the same way. They are only human

I think the media and television shows is not really a good indicator of the whole, they are meant to sensationalize and only show the stuff that they think is newsworthy.

[Cooley Hurd]

102. I agree, BHG. Many who become police officers are on a power trip...

This appears to be no exception.

And, a cop who doesn't like or use profanity?:eyes:

P.S. I'm the son, brother, cousin and nephew of police officers, so I have room to speak on this subject...

[Kingshakabobo]

42. Poor baby.

:(

[norml]

50. I've never put anyone on ignore anywhere on the internet.

As long as they weren't some kind of porn bot. I consider profanity, insults, and personal attacks to be a part of the debate. Even though I don't use profanity very much, I'm glad that it is used freely here. I consider it to be an important part of free speech. Insults, and personal attacks are another matter, and if you feel that someone has gone too far, you should hit the Alert, and report it. With all the insult, misrepresentation, and outright lies that is being done by the republican infomercials, for which their is no equivalent, there is no other side that does the same, for that I have no problem with giving republicans, or any supporting the evil movement that calls itself conservative a few insults. In fact, I encourage it.

[seabeyond]

52. me either, i dont need a button to ignore someone, lo lol lol lol

plus i dont take anything personal, believe there is message in all expression. just thank for opportunity to experience and hear so much

nada is a big deal in words

[DemonFighterLives]

54. Welcome to DU

Nobody ever stated that it was always pretty and nice here. I didn't read the whole other thread so I may have missed something. Hang in there and if I ever met you in person, I might buy you a doughnut. :donut: :7

[The River]

58. Bulletin Boards aka "Bitch Boards"

Almost from the very beginning, on line
bulletin boards became known as Bitch Boards
because of the whining, complaining, and
"bitching" about everything the poster didn't like
or agree with. Don't take it personally.
Chronic complainers are a fact of life. In
real life we learn to avoid such people. On line
we just just use the "ignore" button.

[Obviousman]

61. Keep up the good work SouthernDem

I like to read dailykos when this site gets to be too much. They usually always stay civil

[chefgirl]

64. Ya know

I read most of your other thread, and I've just finished reading this one.

Just a piece of advice: If you start out with attitude, thats just what you'll get in return.

Im sure there are plenty of DUers who feel just as strongly opposed to haughtiness and condescension as you do toward profanity and insults, but that didn't stop you from saying what you wanted to say, exactly the way you wanted to say it.

It works both ways, but in both threads, you attempted to stifle other peoples' forms of expression, while being just as offensive to the members who are opposed to someone elevating themselves to the position of 'net nanny'.

You may be a police officer in the real world, but here you are just another poster, no better or worse than any other.

-chef-

[bvar22]

66. Did your last Psych Eval....

...contain the words Narcissistic Personality Disorder....?

I'm not trying to be rude of hurt your feelings, but DU really is not all about you.

[Redleg]

135. You're not trying to be rude?

You could have surprised me.

[bvar22]

141. Well, sometimes the truth hurts.

Like pulling off a bandaid, its best just to get it done directly, and all at once.

Just trying to be helpful.
No Charge.

[sweetheart]

69. Its like exorcism of ignorance in Chod

Writing on DU, is the writer making a civil discourse in a world of
abuse, hatred and personal attacks. Given this puerile culture, one
can only put one's best foot foward and get on with it. We all have
tangled with the nasty detractors. Myself i simply discuss with them
and take them point by point. If they are really abusive, which in all
honestly i seldomly encounter, i would alert...

Sadly, you touched a nerve with your police thread. Many of us have
been abused by the police... and when you come out and identify yourself
with what for some is an "evil" agency, then surely you've put yourself
in the ultimate flame bait position. I hope your department paid you
for writing that thread.... it was excellent PR for all police persons.

In the tibetan ritual of Chod, or demon exorcism, one goes out in
search of a demon. Then the person doing the exorcism staples their
toung to the demon. This is very smilar to DU, as by banishing ignorance
about police, you've taken on the ignorance directly, disembodied and
many voices will come at you. Then you wrestle with the demon without
fear and destroy all the ignorance.... ritual complete.

Welcome to DU. :-)

[Melynn]

71. What I like on DU

is when someone who disagrees with you accuses you of being a Freeper/disrupter. I think I would rather be cursed at.

[underseasurveyor]

82. Good point

and I think I'd have ta agree with yas on that latter part too:thumbsup:

:hi:

[PowerToThePeople]

72. Ignore Button

Ignore Button is a bad thing, for you.. If you ignore someone you will never see any of their posts. Maybe this person got at you one time but then 2 days later posts some very informative information. You miss that info. Ignore button use only harms you. Just shrug off any posts that you feel are unworthy. This is a very intense BBS and people tend to reply fast, sometimes before thinking through it alot. I have never and will never use ignore.

[hunter]

73. For all the wrong reasons this thread has me ROTFL...

If anyone here has ever entered the word "handcuffs" into google images... Please, please, please, I beg of you, I don't want to hear about it.

[drdtroit]

77. "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar" my

Moms used to always tell me. I have noticed an increase in vitriol in just the last couple of months. In the days immediately after the election it was absurd. I love DU because it has always been a place of education and truth, supported up by facts (for the more part) and it kind of makes me wonder if this escalation of intolerance could also be the result of another "genius" Rovian adventure.

[hfojvt]

86. friends agree with friends in order to express friendship

I think that alot of people carry a little list in their heads (although it may not be so formalized), that starts: "All decent and intelligent people believe ...." followed by the list. Sometimes their beliefs are emotionally based and they defend them emotionally because they have forgotten, or they never had, a rational reason for them. On the other hand, some posters are very well versed in some issues. They may react curtly when they face the same ignorant cliches, the constant repetition of which and their acceptance as conventional wisdom makes them very angry.
As far as swearing goes, many people know that others are dismissive of those who curse, but tough noogies. Cursing people are often dismissive of those anal-rententive, priggish moralisers too. They are determined to say what they feel and let the chips fall where they may.
To my way of thinking, a curse word is just a powerful adjective. If I want to say that something is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very stupid. I can simply say that it is focking stupid and that means the same thing. To use a quote, if you don't like it: "Gee, officer Krupke, krup you!"

[tx_dem41]

87. But what about when the curse word is directed at you?

I think a prime example in that thread was when someone said...
"F**k all cops".

[Bluebear]

90. You can't say "DU is nasty" for a post like that

I have observed a few real creeps here, but I have met 10 times as more genuine, wonderful people. On an anonymous and 'open' message board you are going to see all types. "F**k all cops" is a nasty, immature thing to say and I would consider the source.

[tx_dem41]

91. Yes, I do put it all in perspective.

Having been on the forum now for two months, I am starting to learn the "good guys" from the "bad guys" (and I'm sure my criteria differs from others). I have met some real good people, I'm happy to say.

[hfojvt]

92. that is not really directed at you

It is directed at an occupational category which you happen to belong to. It is a short-hand way to say "I have had some very bad experiences with the police, and I have read about what they have done to others, and I do not like them one bit." Or maybe they are just anarchists or determined foes of the prison-industrial complex. I am reminded of the episode of the Rockford files where Jim and a female detective solved some case and then they went outside to find that she was getting a parking ticket and the ticketing officer would not listen to her excuses. She says to Rockford: "I try, I really try, but dammit Jim, I hate cops." One bad apple spoils the whole bunch for some people.

[tx_dem41]

93. It was directed at a policeman.

A person who identified himself as a policeman. In fact, the whole thread was about him being a policeman. The use of "all" made it quite clear at whom it was directed.

You also need to read that whole section of the thread for its proper context.

[Bluebear]

94. That's a crying shame

How soon we forget. Same as DU, there are some horrible cops and a lot more heroes.

[hfojvt]

95. I am not sure it was a bad apple thing

The sad thing is that due to the drug wars, some people might see all cops, good or bad, as the enemy. The same might be said for a Marxist. In the view of some, police are the hired thugs who carry out the wishes of "the man" or "the system" which is designed to oppress the many for the benefit of the few. As Jay Gould bragged "I can hire half of the working class to kill the other half." Then there is the fact that the one who retaliates is likely to get the flag as you see in football. One person pushes, the other pushes back and gets penalized. The person penalized is likely to see the officials as one who is "taking their side".
There are plenty of reasons for people to have a general dislike of police. My question would be, what is your attitude towards those who hate you, either personally or generally? Are you prepared to lock them up, write them off, ignore them? Or can you engage them and try to show them a better side?

[American Tragedy]

103. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch...

...kind of like racism, huh?

[Blue-Jay]

97. I read your OP three times and still don't "get it"

But you *did* make a really funny typo: "In between the pointless post there maybe some incite."

In other words, you troll poorly.

[Duncan Grant]

140. Succinct, Accurate, and Inspired. n/t

:thumbsup:

[exploited]

143. Not so much a typo but...

a Classic Freudian slip. LOL. A troll that stands out like dog's balls.

Disclaimer
This post uses profanity to:
*1) emphasise my point,
*2) ridicule by creating colourful imagery,
*3) ensure that the policeman will ignore this post.
<His disclaimer states that he 'would ignore insults, personal attacks and profanity'... and a policeman never lies... hmmm, but why must he then write several paragraphs in a new thread describing his disgust?>

Ok, so now the copper has gone and I can express myself freely. ;)

Although I'm fairly new to this board it's quite apparent that most contributors consider it poor form to criticise another members use of language. Let the message speak for itself, which it does. The policeman's message is certainly a plea for self-censorship.

We live in interesting times. DU now has the etiquette police looking over our shoulders and the assigned officer has a problem with free expression. So please modify your behaviour accordingly, lest you be denied of any further liberties.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

99. Get lost, fascist!!!

Haha, just playing with ya.. :)

[I_equals_PRT]

101. That's funny how you get your little feelings hurt and your back up

and call it rude if anyone disagrees with your position in the world. How about addressing some of the constuctive criticism and not dismissing the complaints people made about how the police operate? It's a lot easier to just say...oh, that observation was a bit too frank, I believe I'll just call it rude...and maybe even start another thread about it.

[tx_dem41]

105. It's interesting how you equate:

"disagrees" with cursing. And, "a bit too frank" with cursing. You can disagree and be quite frank without cursing. It isn't that difficult and might be more effective.

In other words, he wasn't complaining about people disagreeing with him or being "too frank". You said that. He said (and proved it) nothing of the kind.

[I_equals_PRT]

121. what cursing? nobody was cursing! it's interesting how you distribute

"cursing" accross the entire thread... show me where I cursed, if you please? However, I must add, that complaints of "cursing" are dumb. To complain of cursing is clinging to rules that don't really exist. It's like a little kid running for ghoul during a tag game and thinking they are safe when they touch it. It's just silly. Any one word is as good as any other, so grow up, learn to deal with the concepts, and get past individual words. Your accusation that all persons who disagreed with "officer smug" were cursing is totally inaccurate. Maybe you should have read the posts before commenting on them.

[tx_dem41]

123. Sigh...please back up your accusations

Please point out the following in my posts:

Where did I say: "that all persons who disagreed with "officer smug" were cursing"?

Where did I say that you cursed. In my post, I was speaking about the figurative "you". I thought that was obvious. Like you said, any one word is as good as any other.

:eyes:

[txaslftist]

108. Why you lousy no good so and so...

How DARE you say people are uncivil on DU?

You igernant Texas hillbilly copper!

Seriously, though, the very first responses got it right. This is an anonymous board, and people often type faster than they think, and say things they'd never say to your face. (especially what with a badge, a gun and a jail handy -LOL).

On the other hand, this a free discourse zone, (at least until the DOD shuts it down), and in order to get a free flow of ideas from which to cull the good ones, you have to read a lot of just plain silliness.

I've had my own opinions changed on some issues by reading thoughtful posts on DU. I've had some of my opinions hardened and reinforced, and I've been really blown away by some intellectual stuff I've read here.

I've also read a lot of bunk and venom.

It's the price you pay for relatively free speech.

[SeekerofTruth]

126. Well said, you piece of...

intelligence.:)

[Old Mouse]

109. I just wanted to say...

I grew up black in LA in the 70's. As a result I have more police guns pointed in my face, at my back, and jammed in my ribs than any of my lighter skinned friends.

Now, in my 40s, I see the extreme effort and change that has happened in law enforcement in this country over the past few decades. A culture rife in racism and abuse has been all but abolished, but due to a lack of quality public relations, the worst of you still represent the best of you in the publics eye.

In fact, the expectations we have for a policeman's performance are close to impossible for a human being to attain, and it would behoove all of us to realize many officers now feel, correctly or not, under siege.

[Beam Me Up]

115. BINGO! There needs to be more dialogue between police and people.

I appreciate very much your insight. I am not black and I've never had a gun pointed at me (other than by my father who once used me for target practice) but I do FEAR police officers BECAUSE they are armed and I am not. The UNIFORM doesn't help matters any, either. I would like to feel that police officers are not a threat to me--primarily a law abiding citizen--but the fact of the matter is, I don't feel that way. I don't TRUST them.

I wanted to ask questions in the original thread posted by this police officer but after reading some of his responses I just decided it wasn't worth the trouble. Maybe face to face would be better but here in this forum all he was doing was aggravating me with his mostly not very well informed opinions.

Thanks for your analysis Old Mouse.

[annabanana]

116. good post, Old Mouse......n/t

[sweetheart]

118. What was it about LA

My experience as well in los angeles... perhaps i'm just biased because
of LA cops. I'll never forget every single moment of having a gun
barrell pointed at me. It is an unforgettable thing, as you realize
that the police are potentially a finger movement from one's death.

Funnily, this happened repeatedly for traffic violations... of all things
as if by pulling me over, my crime was so heinous in speeding that
deadly force was necessary.... and then when someone got shot reaching
for their license and registration... they'd excuse it with .. "well
he might have been reaching for a gun."

[Old Mouse]

138. Traffic violation

is the excuse used to pull over someone already 'profiled' There are so many traffic laws, chances are everyone on the road is breaking several at any one time. So if an LAPD officer wants to pull you over because of your looks, he usually has several legal reasons to do so at any given time.

[Bethany Rockafella]

112. Welcome to DU! But always remember one thing:

This board isn't about you.

[sffreeways]

120. You are never going to teach people manners

here if they haven't learned how to communicate already.

My Mother taught me many years ago that using profanity while writing was a sure sign of an idiot and that I shouldn't use it if I want to be taken seriously. I've always remembered her advice and it's served me well.

That said there are plenty of people that don't feel that way and maybe their opinions should still have merit. Not everyone has an English major for a Mom.

As for your post it didn't interest me as I know plenty of police officers and if I have a question I'd ask them.

Their were some gratuitous flames in that thread. Boring.

[Runcible Spoon]

130. I'd like to politely disagree

profanity is not a reliable index of whether or not people are fucking idiots. I have an MA in fucking anthropological linguistics; let me know if you'd like to continue this discourse. If not, well you can just go "fly a kite". ;) :evilgrin:

[sparky_in_ma]

125. You already know the answer to your question,

since you've been working on the job. Some people are just wired that way. Wearing flame-retardant PJs helps. People who swear at you here probably wouldn't like you in real life, people who don't would probably get along fine with you. :)

[ultraist]

127. I just haven't seen it yet, I suppose

I have heard on other boards how outrageously rude and uncivil posters are on DU, but being only my second day here of really posting, I have yet to see anything very outrageous.

After leaving a stifling board where one of the admins was very religious and heavily censored discussions, particularly those that included any talk of the negative effects of religion, I find this board to be refreshing in it's free spiritedness and openess.

Regardless, ad hominem attacks against other posters are poor form whether profanity is used or not. I've seen very little of this so far on this board. A few passing jokes perhaps, but nothing I would qualify as uncivil or vicious.

[tx_dem41]

128. Welcome to DU, ultraist!

:toast:

[ultraist]

129. Thanks!

[Runcible Spoon]

131. that's a good observation...

a lot of people who find themselves offended don't "get" sarcastic jokes that are subtle and crafty witticisms. IMHO a well-honed sense of humour and appreciation of the absurd are necessary in this environment.

[seabeyond]

132. someone may even disagree, wink

lots of people may even disagree, lol lol but by and large, i havent had any problems either. and on some issues i think really different from the majority

edit: WELCOME

[neebob]

133. What's wrong with profanity?

Really. Tell me. I want to know! Are the lightning bolts too busy striking others for using certain words, or will they get me eventually? Why should I stop using those words? Why are they so bad? Who do they hurt, and how? Make a case.

[melnjones]

136. Bless your heart...

What a warm welcome you've been given...or not so much:) I read through a little bit of the thread you are refering to here, and although I'm not surprised at the replies you got, I am dissappointed. I've had the opportunity to work with an officer a little bit the last couple months. I've realized that we don't see eye to eye on all issues...I'm a social worker, and we simply see things from a different perspective sometimes. But at the same time I've learned a lot from simply listening to him and his perspective. I appreciate the work you do, as well as your openness to questions from total strangers. I'll keep you in mind next time I have a question I need to ask:)

[LibertyorDeath]

142. Profanity is in the eye of the beholder.

People use profanity for many reasons.

"To alot of people profanity is the tool of the ignorant"

Then they are missing the point.

Is George Carlin ignorant.
How about Richard Pryor
Robin Williams I could go on and on.

Profanity is most often used for effect to drive home a point or feeling.

I can say I disagree with Bush, or

GWB is the dumbest mother fucker to ever sit in the Oval office.

The latter conveys my feelings much more viscerally.
It is a choice.

If every other word you say is Fuck then yes by all means someone may want to expand their vocabulary. Profanity has been part of the English
language since its birth it has a purpose & usefulness beyond being just vulgarities.

[ultraist]

144. "GWB is the dumbest mother fucker to ever sit in the Oval office"

LMAO!

Case in point.

[LibertyorDeath]

145. W E L C O M E to DU

:)

[bvar22]

148. As much as I detest gwb*,

I don't think even HE could fuck his mother.

[gorbal]

146. There have been more rude people on DU lately, has anyone else noticed?

Making people angry doesn't convince anyone of anything, more likely it will turn people away.

[raysr]

147. What's amazing

is this guy got 147 posts out of us.

[EST]

150. This thread has been rather fun to read.

A real pisser, hehe!
I have found, over the years, that anyone who is overly sensitive to language that they, personally, take exception to are covering up something pretty heavy, usually something that makes them feel inferior or ashamed. In line with all the discussion of cops; I have an attitude about cops. That attitude comes from a couple of things that just eat me up. One that I find deeply irritating is the breaking of "minor" laws that some policemen do, just because they can, such as deliberately speeding (on the way to the donut shop, or that quickie for lunch, maybe?) when there is no emergency requiring the use of lights or sirens. Another is the demand that a cop's life is somehow more valuable than that of a private citizen.Dammit-if a police person is held to be more valuable, then he/she must be held to a much higher standard of accountability. If the penalties for wronging a cop should be harsher, then the penalties for cops who have done wrong ought to be harsher. Unfortunately, the penalties for police misbehavior are generally more lenient and, quite often, the penalties for a cop are just winked at, where for a private citizen they are severe. I understand that abuses of office will always happen, but this needs to be severely cracked down on.
I spent a lot of time on DU prior to the election and almost never had any problem with anyone being shitty. (Probably a good thing, too, as it would have broken my heart.)
I kind of hid for a while after the Grand Fraud, licking my wounds, I suppose. Even now, I don't see all that much bellicosity or hurt feelings-probably most of that crap is in the mind of the beholder.

[Swamp Rat]

149. !

:D