If you think Hillary is unelectable, you need to think again....

[Red State Rebel]

I started this conversation with someone in another thread but wanted to open it up here in the forum.

In the past, Hillary has been considered THE most polarizing figure in American politics. Repugs HATE her - for now.

Think of the top three issues that makes right wing blood boil..1. Abortion, 2. Illegal Immigration, 3. Church & State issues.

In the past few months, Hillary has made statements leaning RIGHT on every one of these issues. She is basically forming her own 3rd Party within the Democratic Party.

If Repugs field a candidate in 2008 who won't touch illegal immigration again they are going to tick off their base. If she comes out claiming to do something - anything about it she will have moderate Repugs holding their nose and voting for her. When you consider that and the fact that no matter how ticked off any Dems might be with her,when given a choice between Hillary and a Repug, they WILL vote for Hillary.

Regardless of what any of her staff might say, she started running for President the minute she stepped into the New York Senatorial race and she is honing her message at this moment. Will she stay true her right leanings if she gets elected? Only time will tell, but my guess is she will appease everyone enough to get to a second term then go back to being liberal and working on her true liberal agenda.

[el_gato]

1. I won't vote for her

I'll vote 3rd party before I vote for her.

[PST]

9. what if she runs against The Omen III?

aka Jeb B.?

[Sterling]

13. I wont vote period.

I will no longer take part in a choice between a douche and a turd.
The party either fields a real progressive or I will be watching a lot of football instead of campaigning and donating.

If we are going to go more pro war pro corporate I am going to start working on lowering my profile and fitting in with the rich white people.

[OneBlueSky]

36. I won't vote for her either . . .

and she would have no chance of winning . . . zero, zip, nada . . . the Dems need to go outside Washington for a candidate . . . senators are very seldome elected to the presidency . . .

[King Coal]

41. Me either. And I don't think she is electable.

[BeatleBoot]

2. If you thought that the Gay Marriage issue

Galvanized the right and drove them out to the polls in large numbers...

Wait until HRC runs...

[hector459]

3. I will never vote for Hillary, now. She has so disapponted me.

I want a vocal, active, third party...not Nader.

[cali]

4. She won't have the chance

for a first or second term. I think you're underestimating how many dems oppose HRC. Count me as one of them.

[Brian_Expat]

5. Hillary is unelectable. . .

. . . because she'd be the last straw for lots of Democrats who are fed up with catering to the right wing on every issue. Lots of progressives, liberals and others would bolt the party.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. and NO conservatives will vote for her either

shes a woman

shes a clinton

[NewJeffCT]

28. Her image is that of a radical liberal, though

That is the impression that most Americans have of her...

The problem for her is that she does not have her husband's charisma to pull in liberals & moderates.

[ZinZen]

6. Hillary ... ugh..

I see her as a political opportunist (similar to DiFi here in CA)willing to sell out her integrity to win. No way in hell will I vote for her.

[jrthin]

7. I won't vote for her.

What I remember most is a large crowd standing outside her NY office, begging her not to vote for the war in Iraq. She ignored us. I will never give her my vote.

[Sterling]

16. People were banned for reporting that protest.

It was a strange time. That is when she crossed the line for me. I supported her for so long. Defended her against the pukes for years. For her to then refuse to fight against those same people for me was the last straw. She owed us more than most politicians because we fought so hard to give her a chance to take the fight to those who were so vicious against her and BC.

[mtnsnake]

10. I agree with you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1521742&mesg_id=1521742

[peacetalksforall]

11. It's way too early to say, but it's not too early to say that she is

starting to betray many people who supported her. I am retroactively disappointed in myself that I did not see this coming.

So far, I haven't been convinced that her morph is for the good of social justice democrats.

I was amazed and perplexed when Rethugs and right wing propaganda networks started speaking well of her. I couldn't understand why - in spite of having to acknowledge that she is intelligent and appeared to be forgiving of their rotten strategies and tactics against her. Their acceptance and praise was strange to me. It just wasn't natural.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. also she lacks the charm that made her husband popular

[NewJeffCT]

32. bingo

that is her big problem - Bill Clinton was such a good speaker and was very charismatic, so he could pull off the moderate views and still not piss off too many liberals.

[IrateCitizen]

14. If you ever want to know what a candidate will do in office...

... you have to do three things:

1. Look at their record.
2. Look at their record.
3. Look at their record.

Hillary is my senator. I hope like hell she goes down in flames EARLY in the process if she runs for President. I also wouldn't mind seeing someone a little less accomodating to corporate and high finance interests and a little more interested in sticking up for the little guy fill her Senate seat.

Why on earth do we labor under these illusions that any of these centrist Democrats will "return to their liberal roots" once they're in office? How many times do we have to get jilted before we get it through our thick skulls that such things JUST DON'T HAPPEN?

[Sterling]

18. I have a feeling she is dead in the senate anyway.

I have a feeling if she bothers to run again in NY we will defeat her in the primary.

[IrateCitizen]

21. Doubtful. NY state is still a party machine controlled process...

It's VERY difficult to topple politicians who have been hand-picked for their jobs by the party bosses. I'm afraid that we're stuck with Hillary for as long as she wants the seat. Then again, it could be worse -- we could still have D'Amato as a Senator. :puke:

[NewJeffCT]

29. who would run against her? and, then who could beat her?

Her name recognition alone will win any sort of primary.

[tigereye]

24. why doesn't she show some spirit like Boxer does

hard to understand...

[Sterling]

38. Anyone, she is very unpopular here now

If she wins the primary she will certainly lose the general.

(oops wrong post, I was trying to reply to the who could run aginst hil people)

[Selatius]

15. If Hillary gets the nomination, I'm going to vote 3rd party

That pretty much sums up my position. I think the best remedy to all these Hillary threads is to urge and beg progressives in New York to run against her when her seat goes up for grabs. If she won't stand up for common folks, then it's time to elect someone else.

[liberal43110]

17. Wrong. #1 Issue for Repugs is HATING CLINTON

After that, the other issues don't matter. They hate her so much that there would be a rallying effect, sort of like with Dems this time: Anybody But Bush. And Repugs would turn out in droves. No chance that Hillary could win.

[NewJeffCT]

31. they turned out in droves to beat Kerry, too

And, Hillary was dragged through the mud for 8 years while Bill was president.

I'm not saying I like all of her views, but she is the 1000 pound gorilla in this race, like Cuomo was way back when.

[eg101]

19. Leftwingers like me hate her, too: DINO

she and her hubby sold us on healthcare, jobs, trade.

She'll never get MY vote.

NEXT!

[Tamyrlin79]

20. If you think *I* will vote for Hillary Clinton, YOU can think again.

Abso-friggin'-lutely not. I will vote Green, Progressive, whatever there is in 08, but I won't vote for Hillary Clinton in the primaries OR, should she win, for president. Sorry. You want to nominate a woman, pick Barbara Boxer. I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.

Boxer, yes.
Clinton, Hell Fucking No. It's the worst possible thing the Dems could do in 08.

And if the Republican run John McCain, then I'd seriously consider voting for him. If the Republicans run Jeb or Newt, then I'd vote Green. As far as I am concerned, the democratic party is OVER if they don't start changing things. Nominating Hillary Clinton is not changing anything at all.

[Walt Starr]

22. I won't vote for her

not any more. I used to think I could vote for her and support her just to rub the Republican's collective nose in it, but not any more.

[HughBeaumont]

23. Hillary '08 = instant LOSS! This is EXACTLY what the Repigfuckers want!!

PLEASE get it through your heads. It would be disastrous to run this DLC'er who supports offshoring, has tons of baggage, is name-cursed and has zero charisma.

[davidinalameda]

25. thinking again

nope, still draw the same conclusion

she can't win!

no Republican would "hold their nose and vote for her" unless the Repukes were running the Anti-Christ, which is a distinct possiblity for them at times, but I digress

Hillary is the most polarizing figure in the Democratic Party

[elehhhhna]

26. She's a masochist. Stockholm syndrome.

She look enough (undeserved) attacks from the Right in the 90's to know better than to float a candidacy. She also forgave her serial-slut husband (LOVE him as President, but as a husuband? Please!)...more evidence of masochism, imho.

I also vehemently oppose the Royal family style political dynasies in US politics today--we sure don't need another one.

[Malva Zebrina]

27. I do not subscribe to magical thinking

I will not ever again, ignore what I think to be right, in order to support a candidate I do not like. That does NOT make me feel good or proud of myself. The hope that she will pander to the right, and then after elected will be a true liberal is magical thinking and says a lot of not so nice things about Hillary's ethics.

Not for me. Those who are questioning Hillary, should do so. There is nothing so dangerous as complete and total adoration of a candidate to the point where sheep mentality or lemming mentality takes over reason. We should question everything and everybody and not refrain from criticizing them, as if they were a god incarnate. My allegiance to any party or candidate does not go that far.

[libnnc]

30. I'd never vote for her

Repubs and the media have made, literally, millions of dollars in demonizing her. Hells bells they founded a "news" network on that premise. They've had 12 years to make their "playbook" on her. Their hatered of HRC is all they have. It's like an OCD type fixation. Why feed into that? HRC in 2008 would be horrible. Total carnage IMHO.

[Southsideirish]

33. I loathe both of the opportunistic Clintons'.

[Ladyhawk]

34. I don't want her, especially is she's making concessions...

...to the Republican Party. She's just about the last person I'd want for president. I'd only put her ahead of Lieberman, Zell Miller, Feinstein and a few other DINOs.

[marions ghost]

35. good arguments mostly con,

but avoiding the question of whether a woman can even be elected president. Especially in a militaristic time with a war going on.
I doubt if the most qualified best woman in the game could win, as much as I'd like to think this country can judge individuals on their merits, regardless of extraneous factors like gender.

People do not think women can run wars and protect against terrorism. If anyone disagrees, please say so. I'd love to belive we could see a woman president in our lifetime, but I'm skeptical. Actually only a woman who is perceived as super tough, super thick-skinned (like Hillary) COULD make it...she's proved she can take anything, any assault, any RW garbage. But regardless of her political record or leanings, she's a woman. A woman might be VP but not prez, in the current climate.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[Malva Zebrina]

37. woman or man

we should not vote for anyone because of gender. If a woman wants to make it, she will make it on her own merits. The time will come when a woman will be president, however, if Hillary thinks that manipulating the people by moving to join with or pretend or even be with the religious right in order to win, will be her demise.

She is, I think, miscalculating the power of the grass roots who are sick and tired of this approach.

Many are not in the mood any longer for it and I think she is behind the times by attempting this. If she has any creativity, or any passion, it should be stated by her, honestly and fogedda bout the photo ops at the inauguration with Dan Quayle.

Instead it appears she is doing nothing more than manipulating and pandering and her supporters think that this is necessary and after she is miraculously voted in as the firswt woman president, will then change and become a liberal progressive. :eyes:

I have had enough of this political manipulation and am ready to just toss it all in. Unless a candidate comes in that I perceive to be honest enough to buck this corrupted approach to running for president, with all it's millions upon millions of dollars spent to become a president, I will not waste my vote on it or him or her.

[marions ghost]

39. so you're saying

if Hillary's agenda was more to our liking she could win?
I agree that she or any candidate would be making a BIG mistake trying to pander to the Right. Yep--very backward.

But IF she WERE the fantastic candidate of our dreams in every way, I still don't think she'd have a chance to get past the "Security Issues" --needing a strong man-- thing. A woman might win in more peaceable times.

So I see this discussion of Hillary as an actual candidate as unrealistic to begin with. But using Hillary as a vehicle to discuss what we REALLY want in a candidate, as you have done, makes sense. So are you talking as though you think it's a REALITY for Hillary to be chosen? Or is it all theoretical?

[Malva Zebrina]

44. what I am saying is that I am tired of politics

pandering, manipulating and fawning, photo ops, and millions upon millions of dollars spent just to be the president.

I want some semblence of honesty, which seems a fantasy and highly improbable in our current political melieu.

I am just sick of it all, from both sides, although I hate Bush more than I despise the methods of the DLC and the current moves in the Democratic party.

They have lost me, I am afraid.

At this point, I do not care much and am ready to discard them all, for they all are beginning to look alike to me and what I see, I do not like.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. i think a republican woman candidate could win

just not a dem

[BiggJawn]

42. walk into a redneck bar and start talking about how you admire her...

Get back to me about your experience when you get out of the Hospital.

Thanks to AM hate Radio, 'Hitlery' will never be a viable candidate for president.

[Nye Bevan]

43. I agree, I wouldn't be so quick to write off Hillary

When people say Hillary would definitely lose, I remember 1991-1992 when George H.W. Bush had 80%+ approval ratings after the first Gulf War. For some time the conventional wisdom was that Bill Clinton, a failed Governor from a poor small state, with a history of womanizing, stood no chance in the election.

Hillary is extremely smart and a very hard worker. I was impressed by her work to reform the health care system-- even though ultimately unsuccessful, the experience will stand her in very good stead in the future. And I am impressed by her efforts to come to common ground in the abortion debate.

And she ran an absolutely flawless, professional campaign in the NY senate race. As a north-easterner I know several people who voted in 2000 for Bush as president and Hillary as senator. She is more of a natural politician than a lot of people give her credit for.