I just heard Gore Vidal say that Europeans are wealthier than Americans

[brainshrub]

according to GDP.

I want to know where he got that information. I can't find it on Google.

[Cleita]

1. You can get that information from the World Almanac or

other such reference source for the past year. There are several of those yearly almanacs in the book stores that have all kinds of statistical information in them.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. I can't tell you where to find it

but it's not GDP, it's Standard of Living. And he's right; we're behind a number of countries, mostly in Europe.

[lectrobyte]

6. Yeah, I used to have a site bookmarked that measured a lot

of standard of living type things, we were down on the list in terms of infant mortality, hours worked, vacation, etc. etc. I'm sure a little googling will turn up lots of info on this information. Seems like Canada was ahead of us on a lot of things, too.

[Warpy]

3. They're wealthier on a lot of counts

They have an educational system based on merit, not money.

They have health insurance for everybody.

Working people get a minimum of a month of vacation a year, and the need for leisure time and community time is recognized and supported, with working hours limited.

Education in the skilled trades is paid for and promoted for people with that sort of talent, keeping the pool of workers educated to the best of their aptitudes at all times.

Face it, the US doesn't give a shit about the health of its citizens and we're all living in a type of social poverty as a result.

[da_chimperor]

4. They are if they're from Luxembourg (per capita GDP)

US: $37,800
Luxembourg: $55,100
Norway ties: $37,800

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/lu.html#Econ

[Trixxie]

5. Depends on your definition of Wealth.

In eastern block countries they have destroyed their environment so bad, it unhealthy to live. We have a lot of material things, some countries live a more spiritual lifestyle. I do like the idea of socialization of the education system, like in France where you can go to any kind of school you like for free. I would like to see socialized medicine if we could have it without loss of quality of service.

[Cleita]

8. You can have socialized medicine WITH quality of service

like most of the industrialized nations of the world have. Our insurance based system does not insure everyone access to quality health care, so we are worse off that our closest neighbors to the north in Canada.

[Adelante]

21. Not from what I hear from Canadians

I was very surprised to hear it, too, because I always believed the Canadian medical system was better, and our own system certainly sucks. Now this was just one group of people speaking on a social occasion, but for what it's worth, they claim that entire towns on the US side of the border, in North Dakota or someplace, have grown into "medical tourism" centers for Canadians seeking medical care, and that they would be dead by the time they got it in Canada.

I have no personal experience, just repeating what I've been hearing, so none of this is my own opinion.

[Cleita]

25. Our DU Canadians have much praise for their system.

Also, many other American DUers who are acquainted with Canadian snowbirds also verify that their system is superior. So I don't know if you are actually talking to Canadians or reading American propaganda about Canadians. There is a lot of that spread by our health insurance and HMO industries to scare Americans from universal health care.

Canadians do not cross the border seeking health care here. If they are sent to a specialist here in the USA, their government pays for the care they receive. The truth is that Americans are going to Canada for cheaper prescription drugs and often for medical care because they can't afford it here. I am one of those who bought prescription drugs in Canada for my husband because I couldn't afford the same drugs here.

[Adelante]

27. Yes, I know Americans go for drugs

But one of the Canadians I spoke with said she had needed back surgery, she was really crippled. She had waited a year before she could see a surgeon and then was told she would have to wait two years for the actual surgery. She then had to spend her life savings plus large loans from friends and family to have the surgery done in the United States. So I asked her how common it was for Canadians to cross the border for health care. That's when the rest of the Canadians present jumped in and it was a general conversation about how they can't get to see a doctor and have to come to the states, which has resulted in economic growth for small towns along the border on the US side.

Hey, I'm not making this up or reading propoganda. These were sure enough Canadians and I'm telling you what they said. Don't worry, they don't like the United States, they just want to see a doctor.

"Canadians do not cross the border seeking health care here."

Well, you seem very sure of this. I only know what these particular Canadians had to say about it. I believe I did say our own system sucks, which is true, but perhaps there are problems in Canada you and I are not aware of.

I do believe I've read that cancer patients receive care in the US paid by the Canadian government.

[Cleita]

32. Well, maybe some of our DU Canadians will jump in here

and tell what really happens. I worked for five years in the tourism industry sixty miles from the Canadian border. I didn't know of any Canadians crossing the border for health care. They were vacationing and the only time they went to the hospital or a doctor was when they got injured and that was mostly first aid. If there was anything really serious like a heart attack, they usually went back home once they were stablized.

Your Canadian encounter seems really suspicious to me. There are PR firms hired by our health care industry to spread disinformation about the Canadian and other countries' systems. I know for sure that emergencies are handled in Canada as timely as they are here. Also, which one of us hasn't had to wait for elective surgery here as well? Right now I am slowly going blind from cataracts, making it difficult for me to read and I can't drive at night. Yet, I can't have the surgery yet because they say my cataracts aren't bad enough, so I think that waiting for elective surgery isn't any different here than there.

BTW, on edit. Back injuries are the easiest ones to fake. This is known in the Worker's Comp. industry. This is because often there isn't any tangible thing there other than the word of the injured, yet they could be in terrible pain or maybe not. Back injuries are often used for fake WC and PI claims.

[Adelante]

36. Oh jeez

"Your Canadian encounter seems really suspicious to me."

These are my goddamned neighbors, not agents of any PR conspiracy.

Look, sorry if I kicked a sacred cow of yours. No sense continuing this discussion. :hi:

[Cleita]

37. Look, I'm not trying to get in your face, but I and many

other DU'ers have been following the health care debate for years, so we have accumulated a lot of information on it. I can't really accept this statement about your neighbors because frankly it's ancedotal so unless you have some links you can provide me with, it's really your word against mine.

If you have a name and website information for those clinics in N. Dakota that they go to, it would be good.

[Adelante]

39. Of course it's anecdotal

It would have to be my word against yours, except I'm not looking for a fight or to further hijack this thread. Look, you have your mind very made up and that's fine. I know next to nothing about it except what these people were saying. Peace be with you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Besides, back surgery is one of the most overdone surgeries, according

to my brother, a specialist in occupational medicine.

Many back problems that are routinely treated by surgery can be treated more cheaply and effectively through massage therapy, changes in posture or motion, and exercises to strengthen the core muscles.

[FlaGranny]

41. Many of my neighbors

are Canadians. Canadians love to winter in Florida. I always ask about their health care. I have yet to have one of them tell me they were not happy with it. They might have to wait for elective procedures, but never for urgent or emergency procedures. If you don't have to wait for elective procedures (you used to have to wait weeks in the US), that means your hospital beds are being underutilized, and that means financial loss to the hospital. Most hospitals in the US are underutilized, because there are just too many hospitals in a lot of places with empty beds.

[barb162]

44. agree; my experience with Florida Canadians is same as yours

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. Yeah, and I had to wait three months for a routine checkup at my HMO

under our wonderful private enterprise system.

[Dorian Gray]

42. Like England

Canada sometimes has longer waits than the USA for elective surgery. I think if something is life-threatening, however, they can have surgery immediately.

My ex's father had to have a triple bypass surgery in the UK. He would have had to wait five months for the surgery if he elected to have the NHS pay for it. He ended up paying for it himself, and was able to have the surgery within two weeks.

I am not sure if Canada allows that, however.

I have many friends who are quite happy with the healthcare that they receive in Canada. They also, however, know people with severe illnesses who have chosen to be treated in the USA. (Usually, in NYC at Columbia Presbyterian hospital with "the best" doctor that they could find. But, they also have relatives here, and they are quite wealthy. I know wealthy people in NYC who would get the same treatment, while the rest of us struggling with our HMOs would have a much worse course of treatment.)


There is good and bad to every medical system. We have some great doctors and great medical schools. They provide health care for everyone.

[barb162]

43. I know Canadians who always make sure their residency is in effect

so they can keep their Canadian health care. They like to winter in Florida.

[BrendaStarr]

61. Didn't you see the report showing that the US has the lowest rated

health care of 5 industrialized nations (rated by their own people and all the rest of the quintet had socialized medicine).

Here is a summary and analysis of the article in question: http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=341201&messageid=1099333615

[David Zephyr]

34. Exactly.

It's the lack of QUALITY of healthcare here in the U.S. that is scandalous, not just the tens of millions without healthcare coverage.

[newyawker99]

63. Hi Trixxie!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[FormerDittoHead]

7. IN THE 1970's...

there was book called "The Rich and SuperRich" by Ferdanand Lumberg.

(I BELIEVE this was the book I'm thinking of)

I recall that he looked the distribution of wealth in our country and observed that the USA more resembled South America than European countries whose wealth was more distributed!

Nobody reads this stuff about wealth classes, however - one is classified as a "socialist" and instantly discounted in the MSM.

I really think we should try to "un-demonize" socialism, as our country has done some great things using its principles. Pure capitalism has it's problems as well, but for some reason, through the use of over-simplification, we're lead to believe a single socialist policy or program will turn us into Stalist Russia...

[RobertSeattle]

10. Yep

I'd rather have a country with one hundred million families that are "hundred thousandaires" than a county with several hundred billionaires.

[bemildred]

15. The Rich and the Super-Rich -- Ferdinand Lundberg

http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=5752331&wauth=Lundberg%2C%20Ferdinand&ptit=The%20Rich%20and%20the%20Super%2DRich%3A%20A%20Study%20in%20the%20Power%20of%20Money%20Today&pauth=Lundberg%2C%20Ferdinand&pisbn=&pqty=114&pqtynew=0&pbest=2%2E95&matches=114&qsort=r

Lewis Laphams "Money and Class in America" is good too.

[illflem]

9. Big factor as to why living is better in Europe

is because they have negative population growth.

[brainshrub]

12. Or perhaps because the living is better in Europe they have

a lower population.

[Taxloss]

16. We have a greater population density as a continent.

Japan has a far greater density. Population has nothing to do with it.

[SOS]

46. The Top Seven

of GNP$ per capita:

1.Luxembourg-43940
2.Norway-43350
3.Switzerland-39880
4.United States-37610
5.Japan-34510
6.Denmark-33750
7.Iceland-30810

[Taxloss]

50. What's your point?

[Art_from_Ark]

59. I believe the point has something to do with the title of this thread

[DARE to HOPE]

11. I wouldn't doubt it.

I lived in Europe in the early 1960's due to my Dad's job. Then Americans benefited from a stronger GNP and the dollar was strong. At the same time, we noticed that the Dutch cared for their senior citizens and had social and cultural programs for every part of their society.

When we moved back to the States in 1965 we kids noticed the difference immediately. More violence on the playground and in the cities, more people throwing garbage on the street, more chemicals in our food, water and air. And then my Dad's work life changed. The dollar slumped, oil went up. The time honored loyalty firms had had for their employees was forgotten. College costs soared out of sight.

Especially in the 1980's this country changed for the meaner. Really, civil rights and women's rights HAVE grown up along all the supply-side craziness. But it did almost work to hide the true loss in our economic well being. And now we are all working 2-3 jobs per household 24/7.

I do think that the Bush gang's agenda is/has been to destroy America economically and spiritually, being the greatest threat to their power in the world.

Yet I do still hope in the resourcefulness, resilience and just plain rebelliousness of the American people. Just as last night's report on PBS News Hour, alternative energy plans are already taking place around us. If we can just get ourselves into healthier shape--lots of lies by the government as well as lack of a proper healthcare system has produced a lot of depressed overweight people. I do believe the answers are there, if we only had President Kerry or Gore in the WH.

Lord, have mercy.

[rachelbirds]

13. Anybody else see Gore Vidal interviewed by

Ali G last season. Hilarious!!! Ali G got him pretty pissed off. Check it out when the reruns come on HBO!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

19. I wish Ali G would pick a better target

than one of the best friends liberty has.

[rachelbirds]

23. Ali G likes

to target people in the news or who's pretty well known. He's gone after a bunch of people, well liked or not, he makes it funny. Past targets have been Butros Butros Ghali, James Baker, James Lipton, Christine Todd Whitman, Ralph Nader, James Ziegler, Andy Rooney and Newt Gingrich to name just a few. I never laugh so hard as when I'm watching Ali G!!!

[K-W]

31. Nobody is above a good prank.

:)

[justinsb]

14. It depends on what you mean by wealth.

According to what I've found the US ranks second in the world in Per Capita Income

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_desc.php

but that does not necessarily translate to wealth. how that wealth is distributed also plays a factor and translating that wealth into quality of life is important too.

So while the US may rank 2nd in PCI , it currently ranks 6th in overall quality of life

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2149799.stm#table

Alot of that PCI is also borrowed money , the US ranks 1st in the world in external debt (and that was back in 2003)

http://www.photius.com/rankings/debt_external_2003_0.html

And people in the US won't enjoy the money for as long as they rank 48th in the world in life expectancy

http://www.photius.com/rankings/life_expectancy_at_birth_0.html

and most Americans will never know this because the US ranks 17th in the world in press freedom

http://photius.com/rankings/press_freedom_index.html

[President Jesus]

17. they don't waste trillions on 'defense'

In the 50s, Eisenhower cut defense and was able to use that money to build huge element of our infrastructure which we continue to rely on to this day, namely the entire federal highway system.

Just think how advanced this country would be today if we had continued along this track.

[kskiska]

24. The Interstate Highway System

was built to provide escape routes from a nuclear attack.

[President Jesus]

45. if you think that was the main reason...

...you really have the partisan/tinfoil blinders on.

It was built for commerce first and foremost. And the highway system is arguably the most significant contribution to the US's economic success throughout the second-half of the 20th century.

And it is fact that Eisenhower substantially cut defense spending. Not only that, he was the first and only president to speak out about the military-industrial complex.

[kskiska]

47. It was certainly a major consideration

(snip)

One potential civil defense use of the Interstate highway system is for the emergency evacuation of cities in the event of a potential nuclear war. Although this use has never happened, the Interstate highway system has been used to facilitate evacuations in the face of hurricanes and other natural disasters. An option for maximizing throughput is to reverse the flow of traffic on one side so that all lanes become outbound lanes. Interstate 16 west from Savannah, Georgia is equipped and signed for reverse flow. A number of miles inland is a crossover to route traffic back to the correct side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_highway

[ashmanonar]

54. not just running away from a nuclear attack.

but also to provide landing strips for damaged or homeless SAC planes (if their base was destroyed, for example).

[President Jesus]

55. understood and agreed. But your original assertion was that it was THE...

...reason for development of the interstate system. It's simply not the case.

[Sterling]

49. Not just that but military use in general was THE major consideration.

Eisenhower was no dumb ass. He witnessed what Hitlers highways allowed him to do early in WW2. The IHS would have helped us out a lot in WW2 getting men and arms to ports from coast to coast would have been easier.

[fairfaxvadem]

18. You can also check the UN website.

They publish basically a Development Index, and it has a lot of info on which countries esentially have the best living conditions. The actual file is a large pdf, but has some very fascinating info for those that like that kind of data.

[demnan]

20. Gore Vidal lives in Italy most of the year

So I would say he has first hand knowledge of how Europeans live.

[IrateCitizen]

22. According to GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT, he's correct.

However, adjusting GDP to a per-capita basis, the US has the edge.

However, I would argue that this just proves how outdated a measurement GDP is. For instance, Europe has tighter environmental laws, which result in less need for cleanups. This hurts European GDP in comparison to US GDP, because work done in cleaning up a toxic site in the US counts as a positive in GDP, while that same site may never have been polluted in the first place under European law. Furthermore, GDP only measures yearly fiscal activity, and fails completely to account for resource depletion, environmental degradation and other factors that translate into a lower overall quality of life with a higher GDP.

[lectrobyte]

26. GDP is pretty useless.

After all, those hurricanes last year probably boosted our GDP, not to mention all the war spending.

[Zynx]

30. GDP per capita is all that matters.

You can't look at a country like Luxembourg and say because it has a small overall GDP that it is poor when they are the wealthiest country on earth in GDP per capita.

[sweetheart]

33. Even that can be misleading

Here is how: Consider 2 countries with 1000 people each.

The first has 1 person making 1 billion dollars and 999 people making
1000 dollars

The second has 500 people making 50,000 dollars and 500 making 20,0000
... now lets do the GDP math:

Country A GDP per capita := (1,000,000,000 + 999,000)/1000 = 1,000,999
dollars per capita

Country B GDP per capita := (50,000*500 + 20,000*500)/1000 = 35,000 dollars per capita

THe US is much more like country "A" and if you consider rather the
quintile breakdown of wealth distribution, things don't look so rosy.
THe GDP calculatoin per capita really should throw out the top and
bottom 1% of incomes, that averages are not skewed by the extreme
cases.

[primavera]

64. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Among the many reasons why GDP is not a meaningful indicator of wealth, even when calculated on a per capita basis, is because it takes no account of income distribution! This is what is so often missing from economic statistics in this country - we point to averages of millions of poor people and a tiny handful of ultra-rich bazillionaires and observe proudly: "See, our average GDP ranks amongst the world's wealthiest nations!" May be, but it doesn't really mean a whole lot to the 99% of the populace who live in feudal squalor beneath their overlords.

[idlisambar]

48. GDP is useless for other reasons

Rarely mentioned is the fact that different coutries use different measurement standards and the U.S. tends to be very pollyannaish with its standards.

http://www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-110252-16&type=Analysis

Another gotcha is the commonly used Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) method. On this measure the U.S. receives another statistical boost, because it tends to assume American consumption patterns are close to ideal, and public goods tend to be underweighted.

The GDP used to be used to track war production for WWII, and then to detect recessions. Now it is mostly a measure of purely political significance.

[SoCalDem]

28. They have more healthcare,disposable income and vacation time.

Those 3 things could lead to a healthy and happy lifestyle.

Imagine yourself in similar circumstances.

Europeans (for the most part) are not as hung up on the McMansion homes as we are, so their homes take less familiy resources to get and maintain.

We all know that siince they have excellent (and affordable) mass transit, they depend less on cars, and when they DO have cars, they are smaller and cheaper to operate.

They may not make HUGE salaries, but if your healthcare is provided free or cheap, and you have no car payment (or a small one), and your rent/house payment is affordable, your stress level would HAVE to be lower.

Paid time off is something that most europeans enjoy...and lots of it. They have a shorter work-week, and it's not uncommon for "ordinary" folks to "go away on holiday" for weeks at a stretch. How many "ordinary" Americans can afford more than a few days away from home?

College/post-high school education is available for a nominal fee, and does not thrust a middle class family into poverty.

It's a quality of life issue. I wouldn't mind trading places with a European..:)

Remove your healthcare payments
Remove your prescription drug payments
Remove your car payments
Lower your housing expenses (rent/housepayments..but also SIZE of dwelling)
Remove the HUGE college expenditures (or savings for those future expenses)

Take a new look at your budget, and marvel at the money you could now "save for a rainy day" or your retirement (which would be supplemented by your government...regardless of whether your former company had a retirement plan for you)..

THAT'S why we save less... Most of us have NOTHING "extra" TO save, because the corporations who rule us, have a hand in our pockets at all times...

[Southpaw Bookworm]

38. In addition

Let us not forget PAID time-off for childrearing for both parents, and subsidized childcare. So, no day care costs. And no cut in retirement benefits for women who drop out of the workforce to care for children -- one of the central reasons why elderly women are one of the most likely to be living in poverty.

[NuttyFluffers]

60. all of that spare money could stimulate local economies too

instead of tied up like that they could be used to spur local economies and production of goods and services here. more links in the chain of circulation = more wealth created. instead of being pooled into the hands of a few multinationals and megacorps. makes for bad circulation, bad economy.

oh whatever... we're going to hell in a handbasket and only the sane get this stuff. everyone else just sees communists invading back yards and terrorists hiding in the dirty laundry...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

29. In terms of intelligence, Europeans are ALL billionaires and....

Americans are deep in debt!

[oasis]

57. America suffers from a gray matter deficiency in the red states.

[indepat]

35. Most Europeans on the continent have seen their Euros grow enormously

in value in relation to the dollar. Where the dollar eventually settles will likely determine the relative wealth issue and for comparative wages, the health care and vacation issues need to be factored in. The total compensation package of a major portion of the American workforce is likely well below that of most Europeans. But four more years will fix this and the rest of the major problems facing this nation and its people.

[mitchum]

40. But...but...but...America is the greatest country in the world!

Of course, the jingoistic fools who mouth this drivel can never back it up.

[ultraist]

51. Wealth, Standard of Living, and GDP are three different measures

Americans are wealthier. The US has more billionares on the top of the list and more millionares than any other country

excerpt: "Thanks to rising oil prices, Russia minted eight new billionaires and now has a total of 25, the third-highest concentration of billionaires in the world, trailing only the U.S. and Germany."

List of billionaires :
listing, "The World's Richest People", (2004) http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

Bill Gates
born in Seattle, Washington USA - $46.6 billion

Warren Buffett Warren Edward Buffett (born August 30, 1930) is a wealthy American investor and businessman.
With an estimated net worth of $42.9 billion as of 2004, he is ranked by Forbes as the second-richest person in the world, behind Bill Gates.USA - $42.9 billion

Karl Albrecht Karl Albrecht and his brother Theo are the founders of Aldi, and among the richest men in the world.
Germany - $23.0 billion

Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud - $21.5 billion

Paul Allen Paul G. Allen (born January 21, 1953) ranked by Forbes magazine as the fifth richest, worth an estimated $20 billion, $5 billion of which is in Microsoft stock. USA - $21.0 billion

Alice Walton USA - $20.0 billion (she and the next few hold essentially equal shares of Wal-Mart

Helen Walton Helen Robson Walton is the widow of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton. She is one of the wealthiest persons in the world with an estimated net worth of $20 billion.

The Walton family holds 5 spots in the top 10 richest people in the United States.USA - $20.0 billion

Jim Walton USA - $20.0 billion
John T. Walton USA - $20.0 billion
S. Robson Walton USA - $20.0 billion

Liliane Bettencourt Liliane Bettencourt (born 1922), is the principal share holder of L'Oréal and one of the wealthiest people in the world. Forbes magazine placed her as the world's 11th richest billionare in 2004, with US $18.8 billion, which also made her the richest person in France.

Larry Ellison Lawrence Joseph Ellison (born August 17, 1944) is the founder and CEO of the major database software firm Oracle Corporation. $18.7 billion

Ingvar Kamprad Ingvar Kamprad (born March 30, 1926) is an industrialist from Sweden. He founded IKEA, the home furnishing retail chain, in 1943. Sweden - $18.5 billion

Theo Albrecht Germany - $18.1 billion

Kenneth Thomson Kenneth Roy Thomson, born September 1, 1923 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, is the 2nd Baron Thomson of Fleet and a businessman and art collector. and family - $17.2 billion

Mikhail Khodorkovsky Mikhail Borisovich Khodorkovsky (Михаи́л Бори́сович Ходорко́вский) (b. 26 June 1963) is a Russian businessman. As of 2004, Khodorkovsky is the wealthiest man in Russia, and the 16th wealthiest man in the world, due primarily to his holding in the Russian petroleum company, Yukos. He is considered one of most powerful Russian oligarchs.
Russia - $15.0 billion

Carlos Slim Helu - $13.9 billion

Michael Dell Michael S. Dell, an American businessman, was born on February 23, 1965 in Houston, Texas, USA. USA - $13.0 billion

Steven Ballmer
Steven Anthony Ballmer (born March 24, 1956) is the Chief Executive Officer of Microsoft since January 2000. $12.6 billion.

Li Ka-shing
Li Ka Shing (李嘉誠 pinyin: Lǐ Jiāchéng, Jyutping: Lei5 Gaa1-sing4), is the wealthiest person in Hong Kong, and also the wealthiest person in East Asia and the wealthiest Chinese person. Forbes ranked him as 19th richest man in the world at US $12.4 billion.
- $12.4 billion

[brainshrub]

56. How does the number of rich people in a country mean wealth for the nation

I heard that France used to have the greatest number of nobles under King Louis XIV, but the people were starving.

[ultraist]

58. The OP said, "Europeans are wealthier"

My post stated that Americans (as in private citizens) are wealthier. But, we are also the wealthiest nation. We have a very unequal distribution of wealth as demonstrated by our child poverty rate.

http://www.campaign2000.ca/rc/unsscMAY02/un10.html
Canada Falling Behind on International Stage
The most recent UNICEF report, "Child Poverty in Rich Nations", ranks Canada a low 17 out of the 23 rich nations belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

The international rankings show that a nation's level of wealth does not predetermine its ability to prevent children from falling into poverty. Countries with higher economic growth do not necessarily have a lower poverty ranking. Many of the countries with the lowest poverty rates have relatively lower wealth rankings. The wealthiest nation, the United States, has the second highest poverty ranking. The contention that child poverty can only be addressed through increased economic growth is contradicted by the available evidence.

[dutchdoctor]

62. How about turning the question around? Poverty..

I think there is less poverty in most Western European countries.
When visiting the U.S. I am always surprised by the number of homeless people. We have our share of homeless people in the Netherlands, but 95% of these have some form of mental illness and refuse to be placed in a house (and they cannot be forced of course).
In the U.S. you see perfectly "normal" people who simply never get a chance to get back on their feet!
If we state that the degree of wealth of a society can be measured by the way it cares for the poor than the U.S. lags far behind..

PS: Don't believe those who say everything is better in Europe though, we have our own problems!

[Cleita]

65. It used to be that way here before Reagan became President.

There were skid row types, who appeared to be homeless, but many of them did have rooms that they rented in cheap hotels and there was always room at the shelter so you didn't have to be at the mercy of the elements and a free meal was always available.

This Calcutta-like homelessness started to become visible in the early 1980s. I don't remember ever seeing this in America before, although I was born after the Depression, when I believe there was widespread homelessness and poverty as well. This time there were whole families who were homeless, not just some alcoholics down on their luck.