Are we TRULY Powerless to stop president cheney & his monkey?

[mopaul]

There seems to be a collective impression that we CAN'T stop these maniacs. Is this true, or false?

I suppose change comes in it's own time, but it's taking too damn long. I wish there were a way to ACTUALLY turn things around, concretely, absolutely, finally, BEFORE it's too late.

If it isn't already.

[demnan]

1. Yes

I believe we are. Even if we resorted to mass rioting in the streets we would be put down. Sorry I can't be more optimistic.

[mopaul]

3. He's not a Czar, he works for us.

I could understand if he were a king or emperor, but cheney and his monkey are merely people we hired to hold an office to SERVE US.

Not the other way around.

[Benhurst]

8. We didn't hire him. The Bush crime Family is ruthless and will do

anything to hold on to the power which they seized in a coup and have maintained through a corrupt election.

[mopaul]

9. I stand corrected

In the real United States, we hire officials in legal elections, to serve us. That concept is crushed by president cheney and his pet monkey.

[anarchy1999]

23. MoPaul, we are living in the "real United States", that other one of

which you speak is fantasy or a myth. Hasn't been around for a long time.

[burythehatchet]

5. see my post below

you have to put this in context of a fifty year narrative, we have already won. Its going to take a little time to reverse the institutional corruption (intelligence-defense-corporate-government complex)

[burythehatchet]

2. I have to disagree with your premise mopaul

the shit we're seeing now is part of a criminal enterprise stretching back several generations, as you well know. Only by virtue of being blessed by the internet (which will also be our demise) are we becoming aware of what has been going on for decades. My assessment is that this is like a huge zit that has been developing under our skin for many years. That zit is about to pop. It won't be pretty.

[FizzFuzz]

31. I agree with your comparison. One question

too, about the internet being our demise? How so?

And even though I'm scared to death about what's going on, and aghast and enraged, I agree that before reform can really happen, the dirt has to come to the surface. The zit metaphor is perfect. Karma is being expiated.

[burythehatchet]

33. We know that there are spooks watching us at DU already.

I believe there are many more than we might believe. The internet is a public platform and easily manipulated. Its just too easy to "infiltrate" any web site or discussion board. That's the intellectual side. The other side is the risk of just being shut down. I think there's actually a race going on here. If cyber-communities like ours do not translate our electronic meetings into face-to-face encounters we will have lost a great opportunity. That's the part I'm worried about, we've become so dependant on the web and on DU (intellectually and emotinally) that if we don't turn that into grass roots activism all will be lost when the neo-fascists declare us a risk to national security.

Its sort of like becoming completely dependent on your computer. When it crashes or is out of service you know the panic that ensues.

[piece sine]

4. suck it up

Our next time at bat in November, 2008.... with all new players. After that election, you'll see that Democracy is not gone forever. Meanwhile, find yourself a charity and do the world some good.

[demnan]

7. Our next time at bat nationally is 2006

and in my state next year there is a governor's race. Don't lose sight of the local races, all politics is local.

If we were to recapture the House in 2006, do you realize what that would mean? The House Committees for Appropriations and Ways and Means would be in the hands of the Democrats. He who holds the purse strings determines the agenda for the nation.

[Telly Savalas]

13. and the potential for backlash against Bush is strong.

Public opinion is turning against the occupation of Iraq, and the White House seems to have a boner for using its imaginary "political capital" to push for an even more extremist domestic agenda. Since 9/11/01, Bush's approval numbers have been slowly but steadily dropping. It is very possible that the public is going to be much more fed up with the GOP's bullshit by Nov. 2006.

Another little fact to consider is that with the exception of the Democrats in '98, the president's party has lost seats during the 6th year of the presidency every time since 1822.

Also, let's bear in mind that as the rules state: "this message board is for Democrats and other progressives." If someone believes there will be eternal GOP hegemony, then its pointless to be a Democrat. Also, the belief that progress is possible is a necessary condition for being a progressive. So if someone believes all hope is lost, they are neither a Democrat nor a progressive, and thus this isn't really an appropriate place for them.

[Bush on crack]

10. Amen

Also we have control of the public schools. What I have been doing is volunteering at the salvation army and I also volunteer with the reading program in my city. President Bush will be gone in time and we will face a new struggle.

[trotsky]

"We have control of the public schools"?

Where does that come from? Our schools have been overrun by fundie right-wingers for years now, and NCLB has furthered strained and weakened them.

"We," unless you mean the right wing, do really not have much control.

[LostInAnomie]

6. I like to daydream that the end will come for Cheney and Bush like...

... it did for the Warden at the end of the Shawshank Redemption. With the police beating down the door to the Oval office and... well you know the rest.

[StClone]

11. After Hearing Cy Hersh lament "they'll do what they want"

On Jon Stewart last night about invading/bombing Iran, I had a dark sinking reality hit me. These a-holes are even more dangerous that any animal that walks, any disease that comes. They are the ultimate pestilence and scourge. God must exist because Satan already rules over us!

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. The only way to stop these criminals is

for some whistleblowers to come forward and tell the world about their criminal activities. Election fraud, 911 MIHOP/LIHOP, the yellowcake lies, WMD lies, Halliburton/Cheney, Carlyle, Unocal.... EVERYTHING. THEN....maybe.....they could be stopped. Michael Moore told the sheeple about most of that, but we need an insider. A chimp supporter who has seen the light. That's the only way. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Repukes stick together like flies on....

[lonestarnot]

19. World told of their lies...didn't seem to curtail worship by brainwashed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. I know. It was told by a Dem/Liberal/Progressive.

THAT is why they poo-poo the info. They think it's all Liberal bias/lies because KKKRove and Limpballs tell them it is. That's why we HAVE TO HAVE whistleblowers/Repuke insiders.

[Nihil]

36. Doesn't matter.

In their eyes, anyone who "breaks their oath" and gives out however
little of the truth is automatically NOT a Republican (else they
wouldn't have done it) and so the whistleblower is always, by definition
of their own action, a Dem/Liberal/Progressive.

You can't get a "Repub insider" to speak, only an "undercover liberal".

[adigal]

14. We are not powerless

I have gotten three Repubs to see the light already and I am working on 5 more right now. They hate to see me coming. Tough. We can fix this, one mind at a time.

[i miss america]

15. I'm still optimistic. There's nothing wrong with this country that a few

pretzels can't cure.

[tnlefty]

25. LOL!!! and welcome!

My spouse has the DU pretzel shirt.

[i miss america]

27. Thanks! :-)

[AG78]

16. True

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change is likely to be a long one absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event- like a new Pearl Harbor."

1. You have to be nuts to write that in the first place.

B. Then to watch another Pearl Harbor happen, and think, "wow, we were right".

And that transformation involved everything. It's not just the military. It's their whole plan.

People with that much power, and who think they're prophetic, aren't going to be stopped.

In our "democracy", we get our next chance in 2006 to supposedly guide the country in a different direction. We don't know if we own our vote, we don't know what may happen by then, and we don't know how crazy their propaganda will make the people 2 years from now.

I'm not saying don't do what is needed to create change just because it looks real bad right now. But for the time being, nothing will stop these guys.

[radwriter0555]

17. It took a WORLD united to stop HITLER.. What do you suggest to stop BUSH?

He's far more powerful, wealthy and nefarious.

[mopaul]

18. Hitler was a much better dictator

bush is merely a pet monkey, who didn't even earn his lofty position.
the presidency was simply given to him as a gift to daddybush, who lost to Clinton, and who arranged for JFK to be murdered.

[anarchy1999]

24. China, Russia and India with the EU together.

n/t

[hector459]

20. Yes for now. If only we had a 'renegade' government working for us!!

that's what it's going to take. Some real gutsy insiders to stand up against the fascists and oliogarchs.

[Eagle_Eye]

22. Tell the Democratic Senators to BLOCK! BLOCK! BLOCK!

Block Condi Rice
Block right wing judges
Block more funding for the war

sooner or later the American people will see bush for what he is

[Gold Metal Flake]

26. Consider the sources of power.

Consider the streams that feed the lake.

Consider the arms of an octopus.

Consider the roots of a tree.

Consider other things....

Don't mind me, I'm juuuust being silly. :hi:

[Cleita]

28. I keep hoping to wake up some morning with

some good news, like they were arrested in the middle of the night for treason and war crimes and will be put on trial. Things just can't keep getting worse. Some where, some how someone has got to do the right thing.

[Disturbed]

29. 2006 Elections

may bring in some new people in Congress. It would be great to have a few Greens in Congress. ;0)

Block Condi Rice
Block Gonzales.
Block right wing judges
Block more funding for the war.

Those are not going to happen.

[grasswire]

30. Sy Hersch said....

...."They ARE going to go to Iran. They ARE going to do what they want to do."

[ignatius 2]

32. I honestly don't know. In my heart and soul I want to believe that

all the letter writing,e-mailing,talking to others to expose these war criminals is helping but realistically, I just don't know.

I am inspired by Barbara Boxer and the Senator from Minnesota(I cannot remember his name,old age is hell)who both in no uncertain terms exposed these fucking liars..but is anyone but we the underground really listening?

Do you want to hear how naieve I can be..up until the Chimpmeister took the oath of office, I kept thinking at the last hour Ohio would find a shitload of uncounted ballots and call a recount in favor of Kerry.

But the reality is butt ugly..a vat of out-of-control neocons with deep bunkers who believe that the end justifies the means..and it feels as if this is going to end very badly..

Fuck. Just fuck.

[cap]

34. Organize at the precinct level...

it is the easiest way to start and the way that it will ensure victory in the future.

The Republicans put $40 million into organizing at the precinct level. They have one person in each precinct who calls into a weekly conference call. We need to do likewise. In the short term, address local issues and build the infrastructure for 06 congressional races. In 3 years, be ready to go for the presidential.

I think people will feel a lot better doing something rather than sitting and watching things deterioriate at the national level.

[newportdadde]

35. At this point they are near untouchable.

There are only a couple of outlets available for us to end the term early. Impeachment or resignation.

Congress will never impeach I don't care what he does.

The only way Bush would resign is under a scandal with high level whistle blowers who have proof of XYZ wrong doing that makes Watergate look like nothing. Even then I seriously doubt he would resign. Of course this would rely on a hungry investigative media which we don't have. The talking heads are too busy looking good on TV to help make themselves more millions.

People just aren't in enough pain right now. For most Iraq is just out there and one or two or several people dying a day doesn't impact them. The certainly don't give two shit about Iraqis dying in those attacks. They go to work come home take and take care of the family or get drunk or go to the movies, watch football etc.

As long as the people of the US aren't hungry, having things repossed etc they will hang on. They live in the moment, they buy that new TV on credit they can't afford etc, they don't look out 5 years or 10 years to when their own kids might be draft age. They don't theorize on how some kid in Iraq who loses his family might grow up to unleash an attack on the US that would eclipse 911.

These things are lost on them and as long as it stays lost our leadership isn't going to change.