The Death Spiral Of America and Humanity

[Beetwasher]

Can you believe it? We're witnessing possibly the greatest upheaval and threat to humanity in all of history. We are literally at the cusp of the possible extinction of the human species. Oh, I know, it's certainly possible that humanity will survive in some form, but I must say, I am increasingly cynical about civilization. Not only is there the threat to the planet due to global warming, but there is also the threat from Bushco. and his fundamentalist minions who actually WANT to destroy the world, for various reasons.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of all of it. I live my life day to day, trying to make the best of it, but knowing that because of Bushco. I very well may not live out my life to it's natural end. Even during the Cold War I never felt so threatened. At least w/ the USSR we had M.A.D. Living in a bullseye sucks (NYC). Perhaps I'm overly paranoid, but I can't help but feeling that Bush is doing everything in his power to provoke a catastrophic attack (nuclear, biological) and NYC is target numero uno. I expect to be incinerated in a blinding flash of light sometime soon, or to die slowly and painfully from some nasty, manmade, nightmare illness. Oh well.

For what it's worth, I appreciate what we do here at DU, but I'm not sure anything can really stop the momentum of these fuckwads and their agenda that is leading to global catastrophe on so many fronts and on so many levels. I really think that the people in power are pushing for a "thinning". They WANT an Armageddon, not for any biblical reasons (though there certainly ARE those nutbags), but because they haven't grown out of their infantile, adolescent, gung-ho, fuck-the-world-I-wish-everyone-were-dead fantasies and they now have the power so that they and their families and friends can survive such a scenario (or they think they can).

There's a lot of evidence to think this is the case. They're certainly spending like there's no tomorrow. They're certainly doing their best to piss off the right people. Their actions only make sense from the POV of someone who doesn't give a fuck and has a nice safe bunker w/ years of hoarded supplies.

I'm a hard core skeptic, but I'll tell you right now, I'm urgently hoping that there ARE advanced aliens out there and that they're getting ready to intercede on behalf of sanity. Calgon! Take me away!

Anyway, that's it for my rant. Stop and smell the roses.

[Wright Patman]

1. Is there no way for you to move

out of NYC? I agree it's probably not a safe place to be.

What's bizarre is that people living in rural Texas are more in fear of 'terr'ists' than people like you.

I think at least half the New Yorkers by now strongly suspect the federal government was in on 9-11. That may be one reason for the counterintuitive result here.

[Beetwasher]

2. I Suppose I Could But

it would be difficult.

[oneighty]

5. "rural Texas"

They are the same in rural New York. Scared to death. I have a nice home for sale or rent Beetwasher. Here you will be safe. I think.

180

[tom_paine]

32. People in Rural Texas think New Yorkers

(especially them Jewish Librul long-haired socialist freaks)

ARE the terrorists.

At least Faux Reichspravda tells them that.

And I'd wager that a majority (NOT all) believe it.

Bad times to be living in Bavaria, err, Texas in 1936, err, 2005.

Lots of old shit is about to make itself felt in new, perhaps less violent, ways (though I wouldn;t count on that over the long haul).

Just so you don't feel as if I am singling out Texas, all of Imperial Amerika will be undergoing this transformation.

And MANY non-Texan Busheviks share Bush and his pal Bin Laden's virulent hatred of New York City.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Yes, don't forget the Busheviks!

[Beetwasher]

42. Isn't It Ironic? They Hate NY W/ A Passion, And Yet 9/11 Is Their Rallying

cry...They all joyously celebrated when us Jew-York Liberals got whacked, it was everything they dreamed and hoped for...Death and destruction to lot's of Jew York Liberals PLUS a good excuse to go kill some A-rabs and usher in their jackbooted fantasies...It's like a vicious cycle, because they're hatred and fascism will invariably lead to NY getting whacked again...Just what they want...

[karynnj]

44. Irony

I couldn't believe that they implied that they cared more about 911 than we did. I think we DID vote for security as well - I fear the impact of GWB's policies - and resent that NYC will more likely be hit than Crawford, Texas. (I live outside NYC and have a daughter who lives and goes to college in NYC.)

[RBHam]

3. You are WAY too optimistic...

It will be far more "apocalyptic" than you can even imagine...

[BeHereNow]

16. I agree RB- People can't imagine what's coming.

Did you hear Seymour Hersch on Democracy Now today?
If not, GO to their web site and listen.
We are fucking doomed.
Live well today because tomorrow is not coming.
BHN

[RBHam]

26. http://dieoff.org/...

"If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst."
-- Thomas Hardy

[BeHereNow]

28. That site is terrifying...

Especially the link to the warning
by the world scientists.
Holy crappola.
BHN

[peacetalksforall]

4. The reality of evidence is there.

Some peace seeking countries must get together with Iran Syria Cuba and Venezuela and plot what they must do to avoid an invasion by Americas mad men and women.

[montanacowboy]

6. Well, Beetwasher....between our 4 Senators

Clinton, Schumer, Cantwell and Murray,all who voted AYE on the darling of the whacko wingers... our blue states are very vulnerable.
The west coast could be an easy target for N. Korea, and we already saw what happened to NYC

The country is controlled by a cult of monumentous significance who wipe away all resistance to their demands - they have control of all branches of government, all media, religon, the military and the corporations - AND one party rule

In four years we will be lucky to be alive

[Beetwasher]

27. "In four years we will be lucky to be alive"

Yup...

[BeHereNow]

31. My kid graduates HS this year and I am PISSED!

She has just been accepted WITH scholarships
to the school of her choice. This should be the
beginning of the BEST years of her life.
Instead I look with dread at her future in this world.
Sy Hersh is right when he says our government and world
has been over taken by a cult. And frankly, I am SO
pissed off at how they have changed the world
my kid worked so hard to live in as a young adult.
Everything she worked for, she now stands poised
to receive, she got it, the brass ring, education wise,
but the cult has set the merry-go-round on fire.
What can she expect now?
I curse every person in this country
who supported and gave power the neocon cult.
I hold each and every one of them accountable and responsible
for destroying the futures of an entire generation
of our children and those of other people across
the planet.
I am so very angry.
BHN

[Beetwasher]

33. I Know, I'm Sorry

I said in another post that it is now a real moral dillema for me whether or not to have children. I never in my wildest dreams, not even four years ago thought that wold be the case.

My brother and sister both recently had babies and I dread for their future. I want to be happy about it, but I can't help but feel sad for them because of the world they are being brought into...

[BeHereNow]

36. Do you about the "Indigo Children?"

I KNOW my kid is one.
And I am convinced I have met others.
HIGHLY evolved and creative thinkers.
Scarily so. When my kid was four, she told me
how she had selected me before she was born.
It really freaked me out because she knew details
about my life that had happened BEFORE she was born.
I KNOW it sounds crazy, but it happened along with other
inexplicable things through out her life.
I know how you feel about having kids with the
shitstorm hitting the planet thanks to the neocon cult,
but every now and then, I see a glimmer of hope
for all of us and it always is due to meeting, talking with
or observing these incredible souls coming to the planet
at his time. Who knows, maybe they are the ones
who are going to either reverse it or help with the
transition of the end of life as we know it?
I do know they are INCREDIBLE problem solvers.
Once we were staying at a cabin with no phone, tv, etc-
my kid had brought a headset Cd player along to listen
to music on. I woke up one morning and heard music
playing and was perplexed as to where it was coming from.
I walked into the room and was rendered speechless
at what I saw. She had taken two large ceramic bowls
from the cabin kitchen and made a "speaker" into
which she had taped her ear phones. The music was
playing clear as day. I would NEVER have thought of doing that!
This is just one of MANY incidents
where I observed her 'invent" solutions using objects
from her environment to solve a problem.
So if you have children, you never know- maybe
they are choosing you right NOW, and they
are part of the solution to this madness.
Let's hope so.
BHN

[donkeyotay]

38. that 9-11 "everything's changed" crap

Yeah. They changed our future, our children's future.
They changed our honor and our reputation.
They changed our optimism.
They changed our freedom to enjoy life.

Sometimes I hang somewhere between suicide and insanity. I can't believe or accept that this cult could so change our country and most folks wouldn't even know what was going on. It's evil.

I am angry, too. And there's nowhere constructive to channel it. I hate what has happened to our country and the stupid shits that made it all possible because they hated libruls so much they were willing to be blind to it.

[BeHereNow]

39. Off topic but...

Congratulations!
You're in the DU 700 club!
700 HUNDRED posts!
BHN

[donkeyotay]

40. LOL. Thanks, I needed that! (nt)

[ixion]

7. you are not alone, beetwasher

I'm a skeptic as well, but it's impossible (at least for me) to ignore the plethora of 'waring signs', the idiot lights flashing, the warning bells ringing, and yet people sit around and act as though things are getting better.

I suppose it's been that way at the end of each civilization the earth has know. It's just too bad we couldn't learn from past experience.

[el_gato]

8. the civilizational critique is well thought out by many people

and they see it as a trajectory headed towards catastrophe

writers like:
John Zerzan
Daniel Quinn
Kirkpatrick Sale
Ulrich Beck
just to name a few

[IrateCitizen]

15. Another good one is Derrick Jensen (nt)

[phusion]

20. Yea!

Jensen is the man...so is Zerzan.

Thom Hartmann is in the same crowd...

check out http://www.animana.org

[el_gato]

24. yea, how could i forget him

[anarchy1999]

9. go to www.sacredbalance.com Dr. David Suzuki

and then spread the message.

www.sacredbalance.com

[IrateCitizen]

14. Suzuki is awesome. I read his book by that same name...

What is so moving about it is the way that Suzuki connects us to the earth. He tries to show us how the "environment" is not something that is somehow separate from us -- but rather that it is the foundation for our very survival. He promotes an almost spiritual ethic when it comes to one's relationship with the earth, an ethic I find myself very much in agreement with.

[anarchy1999]

17. I was privileged enough to meet him and have a conversaton with him

a couple of years ago. He is an amazing scientist and human. Passion is everywhere around him for what he speaks of. I was very proud to get to meet him and I have a signed card from him from that evening.

Goes in my top 20 lifetime moments.

Oh and by the way if you liked the book, get the PBS series, I think it was four parts.

[Beetwasher]

29. Yeah, I've Seen His Stuff

And it's very much akin to my way of thinking...

Unfortunately, I just think it's too late to stop what's coming. I hope I'm wrong, I'll certainly behave like I'm wrong and keep trying, but I can't help but feel cynical...

[LeftHander]

10. got some point...

worth a kick...

get angry...

[smirkymonkey]

11. Death Spiral....

that is exactly what it appears to be. I thought I was the only one who was seeing such rapid decay and destruction, seemingly urged on by those in power.

I also live in New York (Manhattan), and I have been giving some thought to relocating lately (numerous reasons) but I can't think of a place I would rather live in this country.

I don't see how we can continue at this pace and not self destruct within the next year, I really don't. It seems like it's all about to hit the fan and I can't help but think it's deliberate on the part of the Bush Administration. I could spit nails when I think about it.

[Beetwasher]

34. Yeah, I Love NYC

Best place in the world...It would be difficult for me to leave...

It's really quite ironic that we're the target we are, being that we are possibly the most tolerant people and city on the planet...

[IrateCitizen]

12. As our mutual hero Kurt Vonnegut said in "Galapagos"...

"The problem with human beings was just that their brains were too big."

I feel where you're coming from, Russ. I really do. I was visiting with my parents over the Christmas holiday this year and we were all talking about plans for the future, and what my wife and I will be doing when we're my parents' age. I told them I honestly didn't expect to live to be as old as people are getting now, because life when my wife and I reach retirement age will be a helluva lot rougher than it is for my parents right now.

My father sat stunned for a moment and said, "Yeah, you're probably right...."

Whatever happens, I'm going to move upstate to New Paltz, pursue my teaching certificate and eventual PhD in History, do what I can to go off the grid (solar and wind power), raise a significant garden, and just live my life out as closely to the way I've planned as the conditions allow. I only wish that for when my wife and I have children, I could feel the slightest bit confident that I will be leaving them with a better world than the one I grew up in.

[Beetwasher]

18. Yeah, He (KV) Was So Depressed When I Last Spoke to Him

He had given up all hope...

Whether or not to have children is such an incredible dillemma for me now...I never expected that to be the case...I'm not even sure if it would be moral for me to do so at this point...

Anyway...Hope all is well w/ you bud! We should grab that beer one of these days soon!

[IrateCitizen]

22. If Kurt has given up all hope...

... that doesn't bode well for any of us, my friend. One thing I always liked about Vonnegut's books was that his attitude was along the lines of, "The world is fucked up, the human race is DEFINITELY fucked up, and there's not a whole helluva lot we can really do about either of them -- but yet, the world somehow just keeps on going."

If he's abandoned hope, then that makes me feel even a little bit more ominous about what's to come.

And we certainly have to grab that beer soon. I'll send you a note next week -- hopefully we can get together on a Friday after work.

[Bonobo]

46. I live in Northampton, MA and met him briefly a few years ago here.

Do you know if he is still living here? Thanks.

[IrateCitizen]

50. Yes, he still lives in NYC. Beetwasher has seen him around town.

He can regale you with tales of sitting on a park bench near the UN and talking to KV.

[stillcool]

13. I certainly am not hopeful...

and really kind of wish that whatever is going to happen, just happens. I feel like I'm living in a pregnant pause.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Interesting Times

I never appreciated just how much a curse it is to live in them. But hey, at least they're interesting.

Agree with much of your rant. I believe a population cull is coming. Without it, life on Earth as we know it will soon be unsustainable. They know it, and intend to direct it, so they'll come out of it on top of the new feudal heap.

[phusion]

21. Well...

Life on Earth as we know it IS unsustainable. It's just a matter of when we reach that tipping point where our sand castle crumbles.

[IrateCitizen]

23. I think we've already passed it...

Personally, I think that the erosion of the foundation has already started. It's just that we're too damn arrogant as a species to take notice of the warning signs. When mankind began to adopt the notion that it was somehow sovereign over the environment, it spelled its eventual death knell.

[ashmanonar]

48. you'd think they would want to BAN weapons for private citizens then...

cuz when the people figure out what's happened, and the new feudal society comes to power, the 'cons are just gone. completely.

[Blue_Tires]

25. great points

ttt

[MadHound]

30. I agree with all you've said,

In fact I've been preaching it to all who would listen for the past couple of decades, yet few people took me seriously until the last five years. We are going to see the crash of civilization as we know it, and quite frankly I don't think that there is anything that we can do to prevent it at this point, especially with the corporatistas running the show.

So the best that one can do now is prepare like mad in order that you have a chance at survival. First off, get the hell out of the urban areas. Not only are they a big fat target, but they are not condusive to survival. Get yourself out to the country, learn how to live without electricity. Those old antique hand tools you see in the botiques, well, buy them up, for oil and gas are going to be gone. Plant a garden, learn how to process and store your own food. Set up some solar panels, or a windmill, get a woodstove. There is a series of survivalist books published during the seventies at the height of the hippies' back to nature movement. They're called the Foxfire series, and they contain most of the information that is needed in order to live in a non-tech society. If you can get the series, or even one, do so, they're invaluable.

There is only a small window of opportunity left in which one can prepare, my guess is somewhere between five and ten years. Use it wisely in order that you don't become a statistic. And as cold as it may sound, arm yourself. When the fecal matter hits the blades, there are going to be lots of hungry, desperate, armed people looking for salvation. And while it is in our natural makeup to help those in need, it will be absolutely impossible to help the vast throngs that are going to be swarming out of the cities looking for food. Thus, you are going to need to protect yourself and loved ones. And nothing says go away like the barrel of twelve gauge pump shotgun, or other comparable firearm. And make sure you have plenty of ammo, for what you have will be all you can get. No electricity, no manufacturing of any sort.

I know that this makes me sound like some sort of paranoid survivalist, and I'm rather suprised at myself. But I simply see no other future for us, not when I consider the path we've trod, and the territory we're entering. Our economy is teetering on the bring, global warming is starting to let forth it's full fury, peak oil is right around the corner, and Bushco is terrorizing a world that is increasingly pulling together in order to fight back. It is these factors and more that lead me to believe that we, the United States, are doomed to go down like the Romans into the Dark Ages. And like Rome, we will take the rest of the world with us.

[ashmanonar]

49. a gun is nice.

but where are you gonna get ammo? knives are better, if you can get good with them. no need for ammo, all you need is a stone to sharpen them on.

[JoshK]

35. Calgon has heard your entreaty. We shall pick you up, midnight

on the Ides of March. Don't forget to pack your toothbrush for the trip -- they are hard to come by, on our planet.

[geniph]

41. Don't forget to bring your towel.

[codswallop]

43. Yes...when the foundation erodes...

the structure falls.

[blindpig]

45. this thread is really frightening

Seeing so many smart folks agreeing with sentiments that I've harbored since the Raygun years chills me to the bone. You don't have to agree with me! It was tolerable being a lone paranoid wacko, in this case misery does not love company.

If we had addressed problems of energy and population in the 70's..........................

[WoodrowFan]

47. Buzzkill thread

But I know kinda how you feel, I live and work in DC.

[earth mom]

51. Is there time left to smell the roses?

My all time favorite flower I might add.

Thanks for posting this thread-like everyone else that's posted, I agree with you all and I'm scared too...though I feel a little better knowing I'm not alone in this. :grouphug:

[bemildred]

52. Yep, approaching a "singularity".

And I agree it's too late. But I am skeptical that extinction of the
human race is at stake. Out there in the second and third worlds we have
been breeding up some rock-hard versions of the human race, and I
expect some of us will survive, and there is some reason to hope that
parts of machine culture will survive, too, not all of the developed
world is as fat, dumb, and happy as the USA.

[poe]

54. Read this article by Susan Griffin

www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=7114

Yes we are in deep trouble but despair is not an option. be well.

[IrateCitizen]

55. I started another thread to this same effect...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3014511

Hey, it's life. It's not supposed to be easy. What is important is not what time we live in, but if we make the most of the time we've been given.

[poe]

56. read your thread

if one is heading for a cliff a step backwards is a step in the right direction.
on another level we aren't forced to move forward(progress) or backward(Regression) but we need to move in entirely new directions based on the wisdom of the indigenous adapted to our situations etc. we also need resource guides as we have forgotten the essential ways of survival or i should say 'been taken from'

Seed To Seed by Suzanne Answorth-the seed savers bible
Four Seasons Gardening by Eliot Coleman-he grows year round in maine low-tech,low-cost
Any of the Permaculture books by Mollison and Holmgren

Don't want to seem like a Cassandra(she was right by the way) But don't wait, it is already here.

[IrateCitizen]

57. Another good gardening book...

Square-Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholemew. It focuses on how to grow a maximum amount of plants in a minimal amount of space. Excellent for people w/o large yards, and can even be applied to planting boxes on an apartment balcony or roof.

The author also shows several methods for growing during late fall, winter, and early spring as well.

[bemildred]

58. A lovely piece.

Bringing up Ms Modotti is very apropos.

The thing is we are all ephemeral beings, like mayflies, but on a slightly
longer scale, and that is the most liberating idea once you accept it.
Once you stop clinging to your few minutes, all of time and space open
before you.

Great change is coming, but great change has already come many times.

[poe]

53. The impossible will take a little while

"Among those who would seek or want social change, despair is endemic now. A lack of hope that is tied to many kinds of powerlessness. Repeating patterns of suffering....Where once there were societies that served as models for a future, grand plans, utopias, now there is distrust and dissatisfaction with any form of politics, a sense of powerlessness edging into nihilism....In considering what is possible for the future one must be careful not to slide into denial. Imagination can so easily be trapped by the wish to escape painful facts and unbearable conclusions....But there are other dangers. What is called "realism" can lead to a kind of paralysis of action and a state of mind that has relinquished desire altogether...Let us begin to imagine the worlds we would like to inhabit, the long lives we will share, and the many futures in our hands."
-Susan Griffin
read the entire article at todays ZNET www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=7114
also www.theimpossible.org

Read:The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizens Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear, edited by Paul Loeb.

Despair is not an option folks. Get in the way of the Machine. massive civil disobedience. The children are begging us.

[Beetwasher]

59. I'll Never Give Up Trying

But I'm also too much of a realist to deny the possibility that it may all come to naught...I ended my post w/ smell the roses for a reason...Do the best you can with the time you've got and try to enjoy it...That doesn't mean stop trying to do good, but rather do good, pay attention and appreciate what you've got, because if the "end" is near, we have been very fortunate as humans to have experienced what we have...Some of the heights humanity has achieved are truly wonderous and we should appreciate them, because, if we're entering a dark ages, it may be some time before humans reach this level again (if at all)...

[Tace]

60. Beetwasher -- I Share Your Fear -- And Yet I'm Seeing Great Opportunity

I've been in a state of deep depression for some 15 years now, as I've watched the world slowly unraveling. All my best efforts to make a difference have come to naught as I followed my heart and acted truthfully and honorably in this world where every single institution apparently is completely corrupted. Perhaps it has always been so.

And yet, knowing that profound changes lie ahead has been liberating, and I've begun to see that this is a great opportunity for mankind.

By the way, I live in Manhattan too. I just made a decision to stick it out for another year. These surely are interesting times.

Cheers