Jury duty sucks

[musette_sf]

Does anybody *like* jury duty? If so please explain! (I'm afraid the shiny happy Superior Court juror video they showed us just wasn't very convincing...)

I just got home from Day 2 of jury duty. I have to say that at least this particular court is starting to get it right -- you only have to be there for three hours a day. But it still feels like conscription to me. If I had time on my hands, I suppose this Jury Duty Lite thing might not be so bad. But I'm a IT project manager on some really, um, "aggressive" (translation: "complete fantasy") timelines, so I am doing my real job full time too.

So anyway, here is my pet peeve observed today in voir dire: people who are citizens, and have lived here for 20+ years, who claim to not speak English well enough to serve. We had three today.

We should not have marginalized citizens who cannot participate in the judicial and democratic systems! Shouldn't we demand more from people who want to become citizens? Or is this just a result of the creeping imperialism oozing forth from Bu$hCo, where we'll hand out things like "guest status" like Pez, regardless of whether you can speak the language of the land well enough to participate?

If you want to flame, flame away, but I am first generation American, and I see no reason why a person who aspires to be a US citizen should not be required to understand English to a degree sufficient to participate.

[RPM]

1. uh - any reasonably intelligent person can get out of it...

if it sucks so bad for you - why didnt you. Stop your whining - some of us have wanted to do it for years and have not been able to get into it. It seems any legal education DQ's a person - go figure...

[musette_sf]

3. Wow

I guess you've never had to sit through three+ days of voir dire on your own nickel. I can't even get out, if I can at all, till I get seated and questioned.

I hope you have nothing else going on and that your financial situation is such that you are being paid anyway, if you ever get to serve.

And what does being reasonably intelligent have to do with "getting out" of it? Aren't you sworn to tell the truth once you enter the courtroom? Either you are truthful or you are not.

Personally I think I must recuse myself, once the opportunity comes for me to do so. But this will not happen until I get seated.

[RPM]

17. point being: bring up your most radical view...

... and you are out.

Got out twice that way - without breaking my oath.

The time i tried to get on, i hadstarted law school, and they got rid of me before i could say anything: they asked if anyone was a lawyer or had any legal education, and i was gone.

If you don't want to be there, you can easily get yourself dismissed - without breaking your oath to tell the truth.

That's all...

[RPM]

18. point being: bring up your most radical view...

... and you are out.

Got out twice that way - without breaking my oath.

The time i tried to get on, i hadstarted law school, and they got rid of me before i could say anything: they asked if anyone was a lawyer or had any legal education, and i was gone.

If you don't want to be there, you can easily get yourself dismissed - without breaking your oath to tell the truth.

That's all...

[musette_sf]

19. the judge does ask a lot of questions about

peoples background in law. I worked for a prominent "movement" lawyer, but that was oh so many (30) years ago, and I'm afraid it just isn't recent enough for me to honestly claim some kind of legal background.

I do think I have a legitimate reason to be recused based on the charges, so we will see. But I don't have a "most radical" view that would excuse me from this one. I'm just steamed having to wait out being seated before I can speak my piece.

[cally]

5. I've been asked to serve a few times

but I had young kids at home at the time. I wasn't just using that as an excuse, but I had noone else to care for them. So, I got excused until this year. I'm expecting a summons.

I never went to law school but I worked in the Legislature. Also, my masters was on the reasons why penalties have to be very large for illegal dumping of hazardous waste since so few are caught and convicted. I was a public policy major so it would be very difficult to me to judge each case individually instead of it's larger context. I've always wondered how much of my views I should disclose on the forms. I would answer all the questions honestly, but should I volunteer my beliefs on the judicial system?

[BiggJawn]

14. I used to work for the Ciy.

"All Rise"

"Good Morning ladies and Gentlemen...Oh, Jawn! good to see you. so you were called?"

"Yes Gary, Uh, Your Honour..."

"Well, you'll be excused, but just sit back and watch how Justice works..."

I miss my old friends, the Superior Court Judges....

[LibDemAlways]

28. For a while Ventura County, CA, where I live

wouldn't allow the "I have small kids" excuse, so a friend of mine received a summons and showed up with her two young boys. When told they weren't allowed, her response was "What do you expect me to do with them?" She was told to write a letter claiming general "hardship" without specifically mentioning the kids.

Apparently the policy was a flop because it's since been rescinded.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Not in Kansas they can't

or in MIssouri. When I served in MO, you could be excused ONCE but had to come back in three weeks.

I was just notified I have jury duty in KS in a few weeks. I can't get out of it unless I have 'compelling hardship' which prevents me from serving. My elderly mother in law was not excused even though she didn't drive. She even had to pay her own cab fare to get there. And it was a 20 mile commute, so it was not inexpensive.

[cheezus]

47. ...which is why the jury is always full of morons

I seriously hope I'm never charged with a crime. I can't afford a good lawyer!

[TX-RAT]

53. Please explain how to get out of jury duty.

This should be interesting.

[Betsy Ross]

2. Capital Murder

So I get called in with a few hundred other folks for a murder case. We have to fill out a 110-page questionaire. By the time I get to page 20, I am scrawling across the page "NO DEATH PENALTY." I had to continue to scrawl that across the next 90 pages and come back in two weeks and sit around. Surprise! I was excused.

[AndyTiedye]

8. You Can't Have a "Hanging Jury" If You Allow Death Penalty Opponents On It

That's one of the other bad things about the death penalty:
Only people who support the death penalty are on juries for murder cases.
Does wonders for the conviction rate, whether or not the defendent is guilty, I'm sure.

[SHRED]

4. It's your civic duty!!!

Or you could just toss the letter.
No certified-return receipt request? No signature required on receipt?
Then I didn't get it. Prove it.
:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. My notice was not in a certified letter

It came in the regular mail.

[demgrrrll]

9. I was on jury duty this week. We were all excused because they

were not ready to proceed. It is tough as hell to get off a jury in Missouri. The rules are much more strict this year than in previous years. I do get called from time to time. It is boring waiting to see if you are going to be on a panel. Bring something to read.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I live in KS now

and they say it's even harder to be excused than in MO. I had to fill out a questionnaire a couple months ago. The fact that I got a letter means I have already been pre-selected to serve, the lawyers have already gone through the lists and have seen our questionnaires. So there is a good chance I will be on a jury. Besides I am a teacher and apparently they like us on juries. We have two or three teachers on my staff get called and have to serve every year. My dad was a principal and he not only had to serve, he was elected foreman for a murder trial. The day he reported, the bailiff told him he would probably be seated on a jury because they like teachers. And I suppose in this day and age it's nice to know someone likes teachers. :)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[musette_sf]

11. my case

does not allow the jury to determine sentence/penalty. So no one gets to determine jail time except the judge.

[Radio_Lady]

12. I was called a couple of times in Florida...

but was divorced right after having a baby, so I was excused.

One time in Massachusetts, I was in the jury pool, but was not needed after a few hours.

I like the law (wanted to be a lawyer, but was not encouraged by my father, who was a lawyer, too). I would have been proud to serve.

I do understand your feelings about people living here for long periods of time without learning English. However, it must be hard for people who come later in life. How old were the people who had to be excused from jury duty today? Were they female? Just curious.

[Disturbed]

15. I was called in once.

When asked if I believe that police lie on the stand and replying, "Yeah, most of the time.", I got excused. Damn! That court should have paid for the cab fare for the lady!

[musette_sf]

16. all female

Two had jobs where you know they had to speak English to communicate. The third was kind of an older woman -- I grew up in a Greek neighborhood, and this juror was just your typical YaYa who never went beyond 4th grade. It was the part about having been in the US 20+ years, and supposedly never learned enough English to get by, that kind of got to me despite my sympathy for her.

Don't forget, these people are voting too! I would like for them to be able to understand what they are voting for. The stuff covered in this jury is nowhere near as complex as the voter guide for the last election. I slaved over that for days.

[Radio_Lady]

25. Yes, you've got a point there...

Citizenship should mean learning at least the rudiments of the English language. But I don't know how I'd do it if I were suddenly transported to, say, China or Russia and had to learn those languages.

I might do better with Spanish or French -- but whole new alphabets? Of course, I would try, even though I'm 65 years old.

Well, just remember -- "this too will pass away" and your jury duty will be a memory. I'm sure you'll get back to your job soon enough. Best of luck to you, musette. (With that name, are you a music lover, Musette? And are you in San Francisco?)

[musette_sf]

27. being suddenly transported

is not the same as being granted the responsibilities of citizenship. If I wanted to become a citizen of another nation I would take that desire very seriously and steep myself in the culture and language, so I could effectively participate.

yes, music lover, and yes, SF area. Better than a Texas jury, for sure!!! (Some boob juror in this group likes to turn on the TV in the waiting area and watch "Texas Justice". What, real Court not interesting enough for you, pally?)

[banana republican]

20. It's the price we all pay for "freedom"

Serving on a jury is no less than performing you responsibilities that we all owe to each other.

Yes it is a pain in the ass but none the less we as citizens have an obligation to EVERYONE to participate. It is no less a civic responsibility than VOTING. 

As a DUe'r I would hate to think of a trial where anyone could be convinced of a crime because of FREEPER voices.


GOD

[musette_sf]

21. but is the financial burden I must bear

and additional work on off-hours to complete my job responsibilities, part of this?

Yes, I totally understand the civic duty part of it. But to make it a financial burden upon the juror just is not right. I estimate I will be in the hole almost $1000 by the time the jury is selected or I get dismissed.

Am I just supposed to be noble, suck it up, and tell my creditors to pound sand for a few months till I make it up? I didn't get that same blank check that Bu$hCo has.

[jayctravis]

34. If you're smart enough to vote, you're smart enough to be involved!

Once you get in the courtroom is the cool part. I do know people who've done nothing but sit and do puzzles and I can see how it is a frustrating experience.

[ignatius 2]

22. Actually, it was a long time ago, about 20 years when I was an

alternate in a murder trial. I thought it was interesting as all hell, I learned a lot about our so called justice system during that time.

[K-W]

23. I am a poor person from the dominican republic.

My life is aweful, but I have a cousin who owns a restaurant in chicago. He sends me some money and I go to chicago, I move into a dominican neighborhood and get a job working in a dominican restaurant. Everything in my neighborhood is in spanish. I have no pressing need to learn english and no great desire to learn of its foriegn culture more than I do naturally.

But you think that person should be motivated by civic duty to learn english so they can serve jury duty even though you yourself are complaining heavily about having to serve jury duty.

Would you learn spanish if our courts switched languages but nothing else did? What if you could get out of jury duty by saying you couldnt speak spanish? Would you study on your own out of civic duty so you could report proudly for jury duty?

[musette_sf]

24. Let me ask you the converse

Do you think Americans should come to live in another country, not bother to learn the language because there is an internal support system where they don't need to learn it, and then be granted citizenship?

If you are a citizen and you are calling American culture a "foreign" culture, then you don't seem to be very motivated to really be a part of America.

My father was not from this country. He was brilliant in three languages. And also never attended secondary school or college, either in his home country or in the US. He made no excuses about being fluent in English - it was his reponsibility to his new country and to his family.

I just don't think there is any excuse to come to a country, want to be a citizen, and not be prepared to exercise the rights and duties of being a citizen. As I said in another post on this topic, my voting guide for 2004 took me several days to read, comprehend, research, and make decisions on. And you're supporting the "right" of someone to not learn the language? How in the heck is that person supposed to make voting decisions?

PS, I do speak Spanish.

On edit: Yes, I am complaining about the process. But I am qualified to serve within the process. A citizen should IMHO be qualified to serve within the process, and yes, speaking English is part of that process.

[K-W]

26. I (hypothetical me) didnt come here to be an american.

I came here to feed myself and hopefully get enough wealth to have a family. Where I come from government is unreliable, where I live now government is unreliable.

And you yourself dont like jury duty. You have work to do, I have work to do to. I have to work to feed myself and I cant afford days off, yet you want me to go out of my way to be able to do it.

[musette_sf]

29. um, you (actual you)

have to be a US citizen to serve on a jury.

And if Hypothetical You wants to be a citizen.... well, you know the rest of the drill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. When you are illiterate

in your native language, do you really think you are going to be able to learn a second language?

I teach in a school that is 70% Hispanic. Lots of our parents don't speak English. But many also cannot read or write in Spanish. So it's easy to understand why they don't speak English. I don't think it's right to assume they just don't WANT to learn English.

[ThoughtCriminal]

30. I hated it, but was impressed

Difficult criminal trial. The court treated us with great respect and consideration and I was impressed by my fellow jurors.

It was a very difficult and long deliberation and it's not something I look forward to doing again. I know this may have been a unique experience (I've also heard horror stories), but I came away with a much much higher opinion of the process.

[Yupster]

38. I was on a hung jury

That was as a teacher. Today I couldn't afford it as I only make commissions.

They eventually threw us out after two days and ended up plea bargaining rather than retrying the case.

The jury was impressive. We took the job very seriously.

[Liberal In Texas]

32. I like jury duty. And I'm glad to see as the responses to the thread ...

... went on, there were more positive remarks.

Jury duty is as much as responsibility as voting.

I don't care how much it inconveniences you, you should do it and do it gladly.

As with any experience, take it as a learning interesting thing to do. Be aware, be honest, and do the right thing.

I truly despise people who try to shirk jury duty.

[musette_sf]

57. I'm not so wild about people

who don't have any idea of the inconvenience.

If you have a job that will pay for you to be there, great. If you have vacation time to take, it is a great thing to use that for jury duty, if you can decide the case impartially. If you are unemployed, or work in the home and have the time, it is a wonderful thing.

I don't get paid for the time I must take. I am an hourly contractor and have no vacation time and no sick time.

I'd be interested to know how those of you who think jury duty is somewhere up there next to motherhood and apple pie, feel about the ONE reason this judge will excuse you without an argument: If you are unemployed and claim you have a job interview during court hours, you are automatically excused since he feels a great deal of sympathy for those seeking work in this economy.

So what if I LOSE my contract job as a result of the time requirements of this jury duty? And do you think a job interview excuse is an automatic out that the judge should value over my lost income and additional work pressures?

[jayctravis]

33. I like jury duty.

It's interesting to see the difference between real court and how it's portrayed in the media.

It's one chance for citizens to be a part of the governmental system in a real way.

Yes, it's a hassle, but it gets you out of your job for a couple days. You meet new people.

[lonestarnot]

35. Jury duty a good thing, but if you want out tell em you'd convict a freep

[dansolo]

36. I served once, and got out of it twice

My one time on jury duty I was an alternate. That really sucks, because you have to sit through the whole case, and then you are dismissed when the jury deliberates. The next two times I got called both occurred right as I was moving, and since I was moving to a different county, I couldn't serve.

[Radio_Lady]

37. No flames tonight, Musette...

Sorry you estimate you will be losing $1,000 in pay. I know you'll make it up. Try not to get too tired so you can do the jury duty and continue with your IT position. Drink some camomile tea. Listen to some music you like. (My choice is opera without words or light classical.) Wish I could invite you to a night of deep water aerobic swimming (Tues. & Thursday). We start at 9 PM with plastic belts and go until 10 PM -- nice pool, lights are low, soothing music. Good for what ails you.

G'night, all...

[Sgent]

39. While in college

I got summoned for Grand Jury duty -- and selected.

Since I had some free time, and my state actually pays $75/day for grand (not petit) duty, I didn't try to get out of it.

Extremely interesting, and enjoyed it!!! I would recommend it to anyone who can make the time and has the resources.

[Liberal In Texas]

40. I had the chance to be on a grand jury. The judge said it was ..

...quite voluntary.

At the time I was working for the man and knew they wouldn't understand. It was like a 6 month commitment.

I wish to this day that I had done it.

[blue northern]

41. I expected someone to quote George Carlin

something to the effect
"Everyone tries to get out of jury duty by saying 'I have serious and pressing commitments' or 'I'm not suitable'.
The smart thing is to tell the judge
'I'm perfect for this jury. I can spot guilty people <SNAP FINGERS> just like that."

[Columbia]

42. Freedom

Freedom to vote... or not to vote.

Freedom to learn English... or not to.

[Piperay]

43. I hated it

I was called a couple of times and was seated on a jury it was one of the worst experiences I have ever had. :puke:

[Enraged_Ape]

44. If you are a "P", you will rarely get picked to serve on a jury

Policemen, Professors, Pilots, Pharmacists, Physicians, Physical Therapists, Psychologists, Politicians, Public Relations Specialists, Pastors, Priests, Party Planners, Penitentiary Wardens, Pimps, Prostitutes...basically any Professional with half a brain and the ability to form an opinion is not a good candidate for either side in a jury trial. They want empty minds they can mold--and the faster, the better.

I have this on the highest authority from people with decades in the legal biz.

That's why I find it strange that people would resort to using a "I don't reckon English good enough argument" to get off of jury duty. I can't believe a judge would let it go, when it's really not that hard to get out of jury duty anyway.

[Charon]

45. Jury Duty

My wife has been summoned to jury duty three times in the last 5 years. She is blind and bed ridden. Each time, I have to get a statement from the family physician stating that she is incapable of serving on a jury. We have lived in the same jurisdiction for 30 years and I have not been summoned for jury duty once.

[winston61]

46. Well, boo hoo

Jesus, there are worse things than jury duty. You're not in Iraq and being shot at, are you? Are you in hospice care dying from cancer or aids? Are you being called to jury every six months? Get the fuck over it and find something real to be concerned about.

[txaslftist]

48. That's why they call it a "DUTY". It ain't supposed to be fun.

[negativenihil]

49. eh...

jury duty is your civic duty, just like voting. sure it may be a bit of a pain in the ass, but without jury duty our judicial system will fail.

i don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but when i get a jury duty notice, i go and i serve my community. my job is required to pay me by law (up until a certain point) so it's not like i'm losing pay over it.

above all else- if everyone blows off jury duty... who will be there if you ever go on trial?

[SmokingJacket]

50. Chill out! Your time is no more important than anyone else's.

A lot of people can't participate in jury duty: sick people, people with certain disabilities, etc. Should they not be citizens either?

If you're healthy and can speak English, be happy! It's a privilege to do jury duty.

[musette_sf]

56. Yeah, right,

my time is important to ME and I am not being treated like my time is valuable. This judge could have handed out questionnaires to fill out before voir dire, and he didn't do it. Now I have to sit through every single person, I haven't been called yet, and I don't have this time to burn. I am working in the morning, working all night to make up for what I didn't get done while this judge burns my time, and plus I have a 1 hour commute each way to the job that I still have to go to in the morning.

I can't even take time from work to go be with my sister through an upcoming trial that she is involved with. Now I am so behind that I can't even consider it at the last minute.

Since when is it a privilege to be treated as if your time is inconsequential? This is a Judicial Power hangup thing where the judge thinks the world revolves around him and he enjoys messing up everyone's life. If I were being treated with the same consideration, that I would give to a case in which I would be able to render an unbiased opinion, I would not have any of these issues.

I am tired of leaving for work at 6AM and working till 10PM because of someone's big fat ego. Justice, my foot.

The jury system needs to change. This disregard for people's time and income CAN be changed... but they have a fear-based system that works for them (what amounts to conscription), so they don't have to.

[stanwyck]

51. It's an education

I've served on four juries. 3 criminal, 1 civil. Lawyers don't pick who they want...they eliminate who they don't. Apparently, I'm one of the least offensive to either side. (tell my co-workers that). The civil trial was the longest, and the biggest waste of time. Should never had made it to court, a neighborhood vendetta. Sad waste of everyone's time. One drug trail, involving a high-speed chase -- very straight forward. One rape case. And one rape, child molestation...7 counts in all. Sitting in a room with strangers discussing these cases is an incredible education. I think of those discussions all the time. I really think I'm a better person for having served.

[Logansquare]

52. In Cook County (Chicago) they make *you* feel like a criminal

for actually showing up and doing your duty. You can't bring food into the courthouse, not even an apple; no electronic devices except a laptop. God help you if you need to go to the bathroom during voir dire--that makes them really mad. At California and 26th (criminal courts), they had the doors removed from all of the stalls in the womens' room, so we female jurors had to guard the bathroom while each of us, er, did our thing.

[LuCifer]

54. Here's how *I* got out of jury duty!!! TRUST ME, THIS WORKS!!!!!

Ok, in addition to not having to lie about my dad being a cop, I have a few tricks that are sure fire to work! I had jury duty about 8 years ago, and I went wearing my WHITE ZOMBIE "666 SAY YOU LOVE SATAN!" tour shirt, doc martins, ripped jeans, oh yeah forget combing your hair! Also it was a nice touch that my breakfast was minithins and gin & orange juice! Oh yeah, and if you have a copy of "The Satanic Bible" by Anton LaVey, bring it AND READ IT (or fake like you are!)!

Lu Cifer, and like George Carlin said "Here's a way to get out of jury duty, tell them you can spot a guilty person *snaps fingers* JUST LIKE THAT!"
http://www.LU13.TK
http://www.MidnightCalling.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LeftWingRadicals/join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SternAndMore/join
http://www.RandiRhodesArchives.com
http://www.TheRandiRhodesShow.com

[musette_sf]

55. aw, I used to do that stuff

when I went to my unemployment weekly meetings way back when... as to why I hadn't found a job yet, there was no problem. But I'm 50+ now. A little long in the tooth for such stuff.

[GardeningGal]

58. I've had multiple summons over the years

Several times I went down and was excused around mid day because my number was never called. I was questioned for one jury and then was excused by the defense. I eventually ended up on a criminal trial and it was one of the worst experiences in my life, but we did manage to reach a verdict.

About 10 months later I received another summons. Now remember, this is supposed to be random selection. (Yeah, right.) I was again questioned for the jury and one of the first questions was whether you had ever served on a jury before, and did you reach a verdict. There were 12 being questioned at the time and 5 had said they had been on a jury before but mine was the only one that arrived at a verdict. When it came to my turn to be questioned, one of the attorneys asked about the experience. I was honest and said it was one of the worst in my life. At that point the judge piped in and asked me if I believed it was a civic duty and I said that I 100% agreed it was our duty. However, I also said that I believe it is everyone's civic duty to serve on a jury and once everyone I know has served on one then I'd be happy to serve again. I was dismissed and I amazingly enough have not received another summons.

This happened about 6 years ago.....I hope I haven't jinxed myself now. :o

[waywest]

59. If you have ever felt like your vote didn't count...

My htinking on this issue has changed over the years.
I used to think a jury of my "peers" was impossible as I could usually get out of serving.
As a Ca. voter (usually too late in the election day to make a difference in national elections) or an electronic disenfranchisee (?) I'm seeing jury duty as the last place I myself, can make my mark. I will serve and I will grab that jury foreman's chair, and I will make a difference.

[Moderator]

60. Locking.

This is anti-immigrant and inflammatory.